What are the standard issue rucks for 03xx's?

[Accord]

I've read that during SOI there is an enormous amount of humping and even non-03's do a lot of humping too once you get to the fleet, so I just want to get myself conditioned for it. My run times and overall fitness is pretty decent, but my recruiter told me about guys who can run 3 miles in sub-15 minutes but still fall out on humps. I want to be the guy people can rely on, not the guy constantly falling out of humps because i'm not conditioned for it.

So anyways, my question is, what is the standard issue ruck sacks that are given to 03xx's? I'm not sure if "ruck" is the proper terminology, if it's not I apologize. I want to buy one and just fill it with sand bags, but i'm not sure what to buy and i've looked at a few online stores (such as Ranger Joe's) and there are just tons and tons of different ones to choose from so i'm really lost.

If any of you guys could offer advice on which one to buy, that'd be great. I'm not worried about price, i'd rather spend a few extra bucks to get something that is the same as or very similar to the ones that real Marines use so I would have experience with it.

Thanks a lot

[yellowwing]

One of our SNCOs ran with a 5 gallon can of water strapped to an old Alice frame. Don't know what is current these days.

Just get something that won't kill your shoulders with and extra 30-50 pounds strapped to it.

[FullMetalJacket]

I remeber the second time i humped with 60lbs one day about 7-8 miles and one of my socks had a hole in it. I knew it would come back to bite me in the arse, and it did. Nice sized blister I got. I was hiking at just over 3mph if thats a good speed to start at.

[Joseph P Carey]

Believe me Accord, if you are not physically fit to do anything that the Marines want of you by the time you leave Boot Camp, the Marines are doing something wrong! You should stop worrying about these things. The Marines are not going to let you leave Boot Camp until you can do everything on their list. If I remember corectly, General Shoup's son was there for a very long time, but he never gave up, and the Marines did not give up on him!

You WILL be in the best physical condition in your life, when you are able to leave Marine Corps Boot Camp! You can bet on that!

[enviro]

Right now we are using both the ALICE pack and MOLLE pack. The MOLLE pack is about worthless.

[USMCgrunt0331]

Why don't you like the MOLLE enviro?

Accord-don't go and buy a pack, and I promise your recruiter is exaggerating about the sub 15 min. 3 mile runs then falling out. It doesn't always have to do with your fitness either, it's how smart you are about it. We had a guy almost die in soi cause he got so dehydrated from getting drunk the night before. It's all about hydration and not being overweight and you'll be fine. Buy a camelbak when you get to SOI, that'll help, and quit worrying bout the fleet humps when you ain't even got to bootcamp yet. In SOI I seen some tiny little women humping and keeping up while some guys were falling out. If the women can hump you ought to be able to. And if you ain't a grunt, you ain't gonna be doin much of any humping anyways. By the time you get there you won't be worried about it. You got it easy now, the packs, kevlar helmets and boots are a lot more comfortable than the Marines had few yrs back, and you can use a camelbak now.

[marinefamily5]

i totally agree with you ENVIRO the molly is worthless

[USMCgrunt0331]

Why's everybody so against the MOLLE? It's better than the Alice.

[Joseph P Carey]

I happen to agree with Grunt on this, least wise about the 15 minute '3 mile runs', after all, that is 3 Five-minute miles in a row, and with equipment. The best Marathon runners do not do that well, as Half-Marathon times are usually in the 2 hour time mark, that is roughly a little over 13 miles in shorts and running shoes on level ground.

There was once a cunning lord of Ireland that had a woman that wanted many things, and one of those things she wanted was a fine estate to be the envy of the women of her station in life. Well, as it came to be, the crafty Irish lord started to build such a place for her, and each time she wanted something, the lord would point to the castle that he was building as the cause of her not getting her ways. The castle, he named 'Blarney', and it was never really completed.

Finally, the woman realized, much to her chagrin, that she would not be getting a thing from the shifty old Irish lord, as when she asked for anything at all, all she received was a little more 'Blarney' in the end.

'Blarney' has become synonymous with the word 'Malarkey' to the people of the Old Sod. I believe the 15 minute Three-mile is just that for the recruiter. After all, it is his concern and his desire, and it is just another bit of Blarney to keep your heart a'fire.

[Accord]

Thanks for the info everyone, I really appreciate it.

What is it like in the fleet for new boot Marines and what exactly are the types of things that boot Marines have to do when they get to their units (like hump the SAW, ammo, etc.)? I know they'll do a lot of the b!tch work, but what would that consist of and usually how long would they spend doing that, until new Marines come in and you're not longer the boot or?

Also, i've heard new 03's go to either a rifle squad and a weapons platoon, what's the difference between them and how is it determined which one you'll go to?

Thanks guys

[Joseph P Carey]

:-) Re New members of the Platoon.

What determines if you will go to a rifle platoon or a weapons platoon? Usually the availability of the open positions needed to be filled by the company! There is no science involved in the selection process. It is just what they need at the time.

As far as new men to the unit, that is just the way things are! The older men that have been there for sometime know each other pretty well, and they know nothing of the fresh fish. Who would you give a garbage detail to? You may have the title, but you do not fit in the politics hierarchy of the unit as yet. Eventually, they get to know you, but just consider it paying your dues!

[Accord]

Originally posted by Joseph P Carey
:-) Re New members of the Platoon.

What determines if you will go to a rifle platoon or a weapons platoon? Usually the availability of the open positions needed to be filled by the company! There is no science involved in the selection process. It is just what they need at the time.

As far as new men to the unit, that is just the way things are! The older men that have been there for sometime know each other pretty well, and they know nothing of the fresh fish. Who would you give a garbage detail to? You may have the title, but you do not fit in the politics hierarchy of the unit as yet. Eventually, they get to know you, but just consider it paying your dues!
Thanks. Can you tell me what the differences are between a rifle platoon and a weapons platoon?

[Joseph P Carey]

Originally posted by Accord

Thanks. Can you tell me what the differences are between a rifle platoon and a weapons platoon?

The basic differences between a Rifle Platoon and a Weapons Platoon are these: A rifle Platoon is made up of Individual squads and Fireteams armed for the most part with Rifles and Automatic rifles, and a weapons platoon is made up of small Company size crew serve weapns like machine guns, Mortars etc.

The Rifle Platoon is the backbone of the company and Weapons Platoon sections are assigned to reinforce and strengthen the Rifle Platoons in combat or to complete a mission.

[Accord]

Originally posted by Joseph P Carey


The basic differences between a Rifle Platoon and a Weapons Platoon are these: A rifle Platoon is made up of Individual squads and Fireteams armed for the most part with Rifles and Automatic rifles, and a weapons platoon is made up of small Company size crew serve weapns like machine guns, Mortars etc.

The Rifle Platoon is the backbone of the company and Weapons Platoon sections are assigned to reinforce and strengthen the Rifle Platoons in combat or to complete a mission.
Thanks for the information. The Marines who man the .50 in Humvee's and whatnot, how do they get assigned to that duty, is that just a part of weapons platoons?

[USMCgrunt0331]

If your an 0300, you'll get your mos assigned to you at SOI, either 0331, machinegunner, 0341, mortarman, 0351, assaultman, 0352 I think is towgunner, and 0311 of course, rifleman. If your anything other than 0311 out of soi, you'll go to a weapons company. You go to a line company, LAR, the new Anti-Terrorism Battalion or a CAT platoon, which are mainly the guys who man the mounted .50 cals. Where you go and what you do depends on your MOS. One of the main ways they pick who goes to weapons platoon in soi is how well you do on the tests there, if you don't fail any tests, and you put down a certain mos you want, there's a good chance you'll get it. Theres aboout 30 0331's picked out of a whole company at soi, and about 20 mortarman and assaultman. But like they said, it's where they need you, I know a mortarman who mans a mounted 50 cal in Iraq right now, and a machinegunner I went thru soi with was his platoon sniper or designated marksman or something.

[jaysmyhero]

hey USMCgrunt0331 have u ever even humped or patrolled with MOLLE its terrible and why bother fix something if it isnt broke the ALICE is perfect and never has failed me for the last 16 years (although MOLLE has)

and one other thing u forgot to talk about 0321 hmmm....





____________________________________

The Top Never Sleeps

[LivinSoFree]

My experiences with MOLLE gear have been nothing but good. The modular design is a LOT more flexible, the gear RIDES LIKE A DREAM compared to busted up ALICE gear w/'gator clips on it, which always cut the sh*t out of my back, and it's a fair bit sturdier, except for the plastic frame, which isn't nearly as bad as people say. I've humped with it, etc., and I like the way it rides. The daypack is probably one of the best parts about the thing, and it's awesome to patrol with.

This is a bit of a moot point already though... the new SALLE gear is on it's way into the Corps as we speak.. some Marines from my unit already have the stuff, it's pretty hot.

[jaysmyhero]

OMG why do people have to bother...

[enviro]

The idea of the MOLLE is great. Pre-2003, the MOLLE was written off as garbage. I know they intended to make some changes (which may be what you have now) to appease everyone and the politicians that the millions of dollars in study and testing didn't go to waste.

Main reasons for the "junk" label are that the clips kept breaking and the straps frayed too easily.

[Joseph P Carey]

I am finding this to be less than interesting. We have, on the one hand, Living Free, who admittedly is not Grunting on a daily basis, and we have a 16 year Vet of the backwoods, mud, and grime of the working Marine-at-war saying another. In all honesty, I would tend to go with Jaysmyhero. He has used both the systems in a real life scenario, and he has given good cause for his choices based on real application.

When you think back to the haver sack and the knap sack combination with the shelter half wrap around we had many years ago, either seems to be preferable over what we had, and each is generations improvement of what we used. We would have taken either in Vietnam.

We had enough room in our haver sacks to carry a few 20 round 7.62 mm ammo boxes of extra ammunition, or a couple of bandoleers of the ammunition (It depended on what they were issuing that day), a C-Rations box, and our poncho. That was it! It was WWII technology at its best, and the dates on the sacks seem to indicate that pretty clearly, as did the dates on the C-Rations boxes.

We had no sleeping mats to carry, and there was no need to carry dry socks, because nothing stayed dry in RVN for very long. The Haver Sack rode high on our shoulders and back, and it required some bit of engineering to get it off when we were face down in a paddy under fire, what with the flack jackets we wore.

The only time we ever wore a rack was when we were carrying belt ammo cans for the guns, or batteries for the PRC 10, or rounds for the mortars, and those racks were the most uncomfortable things to wear in the humidity of the jungles and rice paddies. I truly felt sorry for the radioman that had to carry one all the time.

Complaining about equipment, and the 'my dog is better and bigger than your dog' argument is all part of the Corps, but a step back into time is an indication of how much better things have gotten from what they used to be.

[LivinSoFree]

This really isn't a p*ssing contest, it's just a comparison of gear. And even if you don't trust my opinion, I'm not the only one around who likes the MOLLE gear better, look at "USMCgrunt0331" who *is* "Grunting on a daily basis."

It never struck me that there was a need to limit discussions on this forum about these kinds of subjects... in fact, it seems to me that these kinds of topics are where the strength of this place lies- sure, we'll all hear about the big stories, but when it comes down to it, it's the minutae of day-to-day ops that really make a difference, especially in the individual experience, and trading opinions and experiences here has the benefit of creating a large repository of knowledge and differing opinions that everyone can benefit from. I know plenty of Marines who still use ALICE gear, just out of their own preference. I personally prefer MOLLE gear, because my experience with the ALICE gear was thoroughly unsat for long term use, because of the way it fit me individually, and the MOLLE gear I've used has caused me none of those problems. Ergo, it's my personal preference to use that stuff instead.

Respectfully, Just because I'm not "Grunting it every day" doesn't mean that I haven't had more than enough chances to hump a pack to know what I'm talking about, and while my experience is certainly less broad than the First Sergeant's, it doesn't change the fact that I've had a chance to see both sides of the fence enough to know which one I like better. That's all it is, a preference.

[Joseph P Carey]

Originally posted by LivinSoFree
This really isn't a p*ssing contest, it's just a comparison of gear. And even if you don't trust my opinion, I'm not the only one around who likes the MOLLE gear better, look at "USMCgrunt0331" who *is* "Grunting on a daily basis."

Respectfully, Just because I'm not "Grunting it every day" doesn't mean that I haven't had more than enough chances to hump a pack to know what I'm talking about, and while my experience is certainly less broad than the First Sergeant's, it doesn't change the fact that I've had a chance to see both sides of the fence enough to know which one I like better. That's all it is, a preference.

You do know that when I was young, I thought that my Dad and all of those old timers that would tell me things on a daily basis were the dumbest SOBs put on the face of the earth. It is surprising how much smarter they got, as I got older.

I too had all the answers when I was young, now, I am not so sure that I even knew the questions back then!

All said and done, I will always go with the most experienced over light personal preference. It is not always about carrying the pack that is most important, it is getting it off when needed, and being able to conceal it when one must. It is about the way it can be thrown aside without noise, and the beating it will take in daily use. It is also about what can be carried in it, and what can be run with and stay on your back.

I think I would prefer to trust the First Shirt on issues like that. They had a habit of proving me wrong all too often, when I was a kid. I don't think they have changed very much over the years.

[USMCgrunt0331]

I didn't mention 0321 cause it ain't a mos you pick up out of soi, you have to go to indocs for it. And I agree with Livinsofree, I love the new pack, there's tons more room, more straps to even out and support the weight, the daypack is awesome, more compartments, more padding. I know I haven't humped near as much as most other Marines on here seeing as how I've only been in just over a yr., but everyone has their preferences, and mine is the Molle.

Enviro, they did an overhaul on the Molle's, and have redesigned the straps and clips on them to make them stronger now, I agree it was a problem, cause in soi we had the originals and the clips broke, but we have the new ones now, and they are a lot sturdier.

Has anyone here used the new kevlar helmets yet? They are awesome. I don't like the new covers for them though, there shouldn't be a big hole in the front. One new piece of gear I hate is the new Fisbee armored vests. Our FAST platoon was the first one in the Marine Corps to use them I was told (Maybe recon had them first, I don't know), and everyone, even our Staff Sgt. hates them. Anybody here used them yet? They are to bulky, they come over your head instead of putting your arms thru them, they have a dropcord that if you pull it falls apart, and you would be done for if you fell in the water with 'em. The one awesome thing about them is they have a pouch for your camelbak.

[LivinSoFree]

Hmm... Maybe I'm not coming across the right way. I'm not trying to imply that all the "old timers" are wrong or "the dumbest SOBs on earth." I'm just making the point that it's not a matter of one view over another: it's the sum total of the experience of all the Marines on here that is the strength of this place.

I know a few Gunnery Sergeants and older infantry Marines who still use an old H-Harness rig because that's what they prefer. Who am I to tell them they're wrong? I certainly wouldn't ever deign to have the audacity to do so! They've tested, through their experience, their options, and found the solution that works the best for them. Just as everyone puts a different BZO on their rifle, each Marine is going to have to find the gear solution that works the best for them. Personally, I don't like the old gear, because it's got metal that rusts and cuts, you have to silence all those pieces, you don't get nearly as much modularity, and it's not nearly as ergonomic or distributed as the MOLLE/SALLE designs. It's got less carry space, so you've got less options for what you can hump if you need to. You can always tighten a pack down, but it's a lot harder to violate the laws of physics and put 10 pounds in a 5 pound bag. I'd rather have the option. As for getting it on and off, the quick releases on the main ruck drop that pack as fast as the old ALICE, and if you want to hide it, go for it, MOLLE gear is all woodland pattern, and the new SALLE gear is digital pattern. Camo away! Those are my reasons for my preference.

I learn a hundred new things every day from my NCOs and SNCOs, the right way to do this or that, what's wrong with this other thing. You don't learn unless you pay attention to those Marines who've got knowledge to pass to you. But there are some areas where you just have to take all that knowledge, put it in your brain housing group, and then use all that to find the solution that works best.

I don't have the death wish to think that I have all the answers. There's plenty of things I don't have a clue about. But that doesn't mean I'm clueless either- and it would be pretty ridiculous to act like I've got no confidence in what I DO know, just because someone happens to disagree.

OK, I'm off my soapbox.

The new kevlars are sweet. I haven't had a chance to get one issued to me yet, but I got a chance to try some out a while back. Those things have enough padding in them to take a nap and use it as a pillow by wearing it! FAR more comfortable than the old helmets. What's the deal with the new vests? This is something I haven't heard about yet? Gonna have to do some google searches...

[USMCgrunt0331]

SORRY--I have a correction to make. Everytime I've mentioned the Molle pack in my posts, I've actually ment the SALLE. I've never even worn the MOLLE, we had the Alice's in bootcamp, and the SALLE's ever since. When Livinsofree mentioned the digi pattern on the SALLE I realized my mistake. I've got to start paying better attention to what I'm typing, lol. So all the good things I typed about the MOLLE I actually ment to say about the new SALLE's.

We've got the new helmets and they are great, more padding and a lot lighter. The new armored flaks I was talkin about are pretty new, they have an older version of them, and then the newest which we got a few months ago. I think only FAST has the newest right now but I'm not sure. I'm not even sure if I'm spelling it right but it's pronounced FISBEE's. You actually have to assemble it, everything's held on by the looping straps instead of clips, and it has a leg attatchment that holds your gas mask and some pouches. It's too hard to get to your stuff on it though, you can't even pull out your own canteen while your wearing it, and humvee drivers have a hard time fitting in there with all the gear on. And a lot of velcro is used to keep it together, when you take it off it's ridiculously loud. They just take away to much of your mobility. I'll try to post a picture of it on here soon. I prefer the Interceptors.

Ton's of new gear has came out, we have new sleeping systems too, that actually include a little pillow with them. And I hear the PRC-119's are gonna be switched to a new smaller radio. And the 3-point slings are one of the best new pieces of gear. We've got fairly new pistol holsters now too w/ the quick-release button.

[LivinSoFree]

Found this on wikipedia... there's lots of others out there...

A lightweight assault vest system that incorporates protection (in the form of soft armor coupled with hard ballistic inserts) with cargo retention capabilities (in the form of various pouches and pockets attached via U.S. standard MOLLE stitching). The entire FSBE kit includes the vest body, a throat protector, a groin protector and an assortment of load bearing pouches (see photo at left). A fully loaded vest with armor plates can prove quite heavy, and is only used in high-risk DA (direct action) missions. This vest is unique in its quick release system, where the Marine can ditch the entire vest very quickly in case of emergency. This quick release (ditch) feature (now also used on newer modular plate carriers such as the Paraclete Releasable Assault Vest) was developed in response to a December 9, 1999 CH-46E Sea Knight helicopter crash over the Pacific, where several members of 5th Platoon, 1st Force Reconnaissance Company drowned because they could not eject their heavy armor in time to swim away freely. Only one Marine was able to successfully ditch his equipment and survive. The FSBE vests are manufactured by Point Blank Armor (US), but Recon operators purchase additional modular load bearing pouches from a number of manufacturers. The FSBE II suite of equipment manufactured by Eagle Industries is currently replacing the FSBE AAVs. The FSBE series replaced the older Close Quarters Battle Equipment Assault Vest (CQBE AV) that had been used by Force Recon since 1996. This kit is available to civilians, with prices for the FSBE vest body starting at $500 USD. This price does not include load bearing pouches or hard ballistic armor inserts.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cd/Force_Recon_-_FSBE_Armor_and_Pouches.jpg

[USMCgrunt0331]

This must be a picture of the real old version, cause ours don't look like that, the new FSBE's are all a dark tan, for both desert and woodland climate. I'll try to post up a picture of ours tomorrow. It sounds like we probably won't have these after we are out of FAST though since it's supposed to be for a quick-reaction force, which sounds good to me. It does come with a ton of pouches, M60, shotgun ammo, flashbangs and lot's others.