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thedrifter
07-01-05, 07:15 AM
The Left Revealed <br />
By FrontPage Magazine <br />
FrontPageMagazine.com | July 1, 2005 <br />
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Long Read! <br />
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It isn’t often that the Left is forced to reveal itself, but in this transcript of a “Michael Medved...

thedrifter
07-01-05, 07:16 AM
Daniel Lazare: Well, I'm sure. But I wanted to add, if I might, Michael – <br />
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Michael Medved: Yeah, go ahead. <br />
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Daniel Lazare: – Can I add this? I mean in David's book, David leaves out huge amounts....

thedrifter
07-01-05, 07:16 AM
If you read The Nation magazine, for example, (which I do) you could look at the last three years and not find any articles on how to win the War on Terror. What you find is articles attacking the United States and its role in the War on Terror. So their political deeds show them this is not an alliance of convenience because they don't happen to like a particular way a war was decided, although this war was supported by both political parties. It is an alliance of convenience with America’s opponents in the War on Terror because the Left itself is at war with America.

Michael Moore, of course, has said the terrorists aren't terrorists, they are patriots. I haven’t seen the The Nation magazine taking its distance from Michael Moore because he thinks Zarqawi, the beheader, is an Iraqi patriot and we're the invaders – and hopefully, the terrorists will win. When has The Nation – which regularly denounces George Bush and Donald Rumsfeld – denounced Michael Moore?

Michael Medved: Do you, Daniel Lazare, do you back Michael Moore's statement?

Daniel Lazare: I don't know. I never heard Michael Moore's statement. I’m not going to take David's word on what Michael Moore said. I'm sure it's being taken out of context. [Actually, the quote was on his website. The citation can be found in Unholy Alliance: Radical Islam and the American Left – DH]

But in any case if you want to talk about sophistry, this whole phony game of drawing parallels is sophistry. I can draw parallels between George Bush and bin Laden, as well. They were, after all, on the same side in the '80s in Afghanistan. They're both religious zealots, for example. They both believe in fighting Communism. So, therefore, using David's logic, I could somehow join a quotation.

Michael Medved: But wait. There's a difference Daniel Lazare, with all due respect, there is a difference here. Let me cite for you something that happened recently since David's book, Unholy Alliance, came out, which is that in Chile when President Bush visited Santiago, the demonstrators there demonstrated with hammer and sickle signs and headbands, and someone was holding a very large sign that said, "Hang on, Fallujah." Now, do you think that – do you feel some sympathy for the so-called insurgents in Fallujah?

Daniel Lazare: Oh, absolutely yes, total sympathy, total solidarity.

Michael Medved: You do?

David Horowitz: So who's the sophist here?

Daniel Lazare: Of course, absolutely. The insurgents in Fallujah are repelling a foreign invasion. They have every right to do it. Now, I’m not going to support every last action by every last fighter there, obviously, but certainly they have a right to repel a foreign invasion of their country.

David Horowitz: The people Lazare is referring to are the terrorists, of course; they're not the Iraqi people. They're a tiny minority of Sunni Muslims who are really upset because a monster has been taken down – their monster. This is the same ruse leftists used to rationalize their support for a Communist victory in Vietnam. Ho Chi Minh – an operative of Stalin’s Comintern who spent most of his life in Paris – was alleged to be the “George Washington of Vietnam.” Here we have a classic example of how the Left operates. Daniel Lazare is defending the Sunni terrorists in Iraq – the oppressors of the Iraq people – and pretending that he's doing it in the interest of the Iraqi people. The Iraqi people – the Shiites, the Kurds, the vast majority of the Iraqi people – hate the “insurgents” that we're fighting in Fallujah, but the American Left is choosing that side, the terrorists’ side, of this war.

Michael Medved: Okay, Daniel Lazare?

Daniel Lazare: Are you aware, David, that the other Nazis routinely referred to members of the French Underground as terrorists during World War II?

Michael Medved: Wait, are you just comparing….? We have to take a break. When we come back, Daniel Lazare, I want you to think very carefully about whether you want to compare the people in Fallujah, who do regularly blow up Americans, civilians, schoolchildren, power plants, women, and children, if you want to compare those people to the French resistance to the Nazis, which you just did. If Daniel Lazare stays with that, I'll be surprised, but I've been surprised before. We'll be right back with David Horowitz, author of Unholy Alliance, and Daniel Lazare.

Announcer: The Michael Medved Show, MichaelMedved.com.

Michael Medved: David Horowitz has written another provocative new book, which we're talking about on the Michael Medved Show. It is called Unholy Alliance: Radical Islam and the American Left. How do I know it's a provocative new book? Because it's already provoked our other guest, Daniel Lazare, frequent contributor to The Nation magazine to say, number one, he feels total sympathy and support for insurgents in Fallujah and compares those insurgents to the leaders of the French resistance to the Nazis in World War II. Daniel, are you sure you want to stick with that comparison?

Daniel Lazare: Yeah, I'm very happy to, actually. Now, let me just – let me just establish a few ground rules here. To draw a comparison is not to draw an equation. So, obviously, there are great differences between the Underground and resistance in Iraq and resistance in France during World War II.

One of the most important differences is that the political – that politically the Iraqi resistance is dominated by Islamic fundamentalists.

In France – and I'm not sure that Dave is going to like this very much – in France, it was dominated by the French Communist Party. But the French Underground did assassinate soldiers, assassinate collaborators, blow up trains, in which innocent civilians were traveling on. I don't necessarily support those actions, by the way, just as I certainly would not issue a blanket statement of support for the actions of the Islamic fundamentalists in Iraq. But I certainly do believe that the Iraqis have every right to repel a foreign invasion. And so, in that sense, in that sense alone, I solidarize with them entirely.

Michael Medved: David?

David Horowitz: Yeah, the other side of the comparison, of course, is the operative one: we are the Nazis. Dan Lazare wants us to lose in Fallujah, which is just what I said at the outset of this program – that the Left wants America to lose the War on Terror (and therefore wants the terrorists to win). He simply dismissed my claim but now he has validated it. Daniel Lazare represents a huge segment of the American Left, which wants America to lose the War on Terror and which compares America to Nazi Germany. That's the comparison. The idea that we have invaded some innocent country, by the way is absurd. We’ve been at war with Iraq since 1991, and they violated the terms of the truce that ended that war. That’s why we’re there.

Iraq invaded two countries: Iran and Kuwait. The truce that ended that war was sealed by UN resolutions, which Saddam then proceeded for ten years to systematically violate. We flew planes over that country daily in order to protect the Kurds from being gassed by Saddam's air force. He was given an ultimatum by the UN Security Council on November 8, 2002, which he didn't meet. That’s the legal basis for this war, even though the Left chooses to ignore it.

continued..............

thedrifter
07-01-05, 07:17 AM
In their hearts, these leftists hate America, and they want any enemy, even if it's as horrible an enemy as Zarqawi, to triumph over us. And they will use all manner of sophistry to excuse and defend their position and say, “Oh yes, we’re critical of this and that in terms of what they do. We didn't actually like them blowing up the World Trade Center, because that gave a propaganda victory to the United States, and we don't like Zarqawi beheading people, because that makes it harder for us to sell their cause.” But these are minor points for them, that pale beside the fact that America is Nazi Germany. The clear allegiance of leftists like Lazare is with the enemy and against the United States. And this is true of hundreds of thousands of American leftists who get a pass, of course, from our media, because our media is so predisposed to support them. My book is addressed to this very problem.

Michael Medved: Daniel Lazare, would you like to see the elections scheduled for January 30 in Iraq fail?

Daniel Lazare: I'm totally opposed to what the U.S. is doing in Iraq. Therefore, I would no more support U.S. elections than I would support German elections in France during World War II.

Michael Medved: So you're sticking with this comparison of the United States to Nazi Germany?

David Horowitz: He is, because he believes it in his soul.

Daniel Lazare: I believe it. I believe it entirely.

David Horowitz: I think the audience has had a good look at how the American Left dissembles. Unless it is called to account by people who know what they're talking about, they will pretend to be civil libertarians, they will pretend to be democrats, they will pretend to be for “peace.” They will pretend to be humanitarians. But what they really are is America-hating totalitarians who want the enemy to win.

Michael Medved: Okay, we just heard something stunning here, and I want to pursue it as soon as we come back. Daniel Lazare of The Nation magazine has said that he does believe in his heart and in his soul that America is like the Nazis in World War II. I want to pursue that belief because that's one of the points that David Horowitz makes in his book, Unholy Alliance, that the hatred for the United States – the comparing Bush to Hitler, and America to the Nazis – has helped to bring together extreme religious fanatics in the jihadi movement with a different kind of fanatics on the American Left. We'll continue the conversation coming up.

Announcer: To order a copy of today's show call 800-468-0464. This is the Michael Medved Show.

Michael Medved: On the Michael Medved Show, one of the great things about spirited debate is it can be clarifying, eye-opening. I think that's what we have here with two impassioned advocates for very different points of view. One of them, David Horowitz, is an author of many, many books. His autobiography, Radical Son, is one of the outstanding autobiographies, I happen to believe, over the last many years. And David has written a new book. It is called Unholy Alliance: Radical Islam and the American Left.

Representing and attempting to defend the American Left is Daniel Lazare. He is a frequent contributor to The Nation magazine. He has a new book of his own, which is coming out in a couple of months. It is called Render Unto Caesar, and I understand, Mr. Lazare, that this is a book about how monotheism, the great faiths of the West, have outlived their usefulness. Is that a fair description?

Daniel Lazare: Yeah, yeah, it's pretty fair.

Michael Medved: Okay. This is what I find so clarifying about this. Very often, when I have people representing the Left on this radio show, they dissemble, they hide. You're straight out there. You've said unequivocally you think America today in Iraq and presumably around the world is like the Nazis under Hitler.

Daniel Lazare: Well, actually, I'll go further. No, I think David and you, too, Michael, have done a really great service. You really have clarified things really, very well. I don't say that Bush is Hitler. I'm not drawing an equation, obviously, but I am drawing a comparison. And not only am I drawing a comparison that his attack on Iraq was comparable to Hitler's on Poland, but I quite agree that the millions of people who took to the streets in protest against the invasion of Iraq were motivated by this perspective. That was precisely why they took to the streets because they saw in Bush's actions a frightening parallel with the events that occurred, what, 65 years earlier in Europe. And so he's absolutely correct. I think Hitler had probably more reason to attack Poland than Bush had to attack Iraq.

Michael Medved: David Horowitz?

David Horowitz: Well, I hope people are listening because this is a validation of the case I have made in my book. And let me say –

Daniel Lazare: It's not a validation of your book. That's not true at all.

David Horowitz: Well, it is. The delusional views of the Left about America that lead them into an alliance with our enemies is the theme of my book. How do people like Daniel Lazare acquire this delusional mentality and why do they cling to it? What does it consist of? What drives it? Unholy Alliance also examines the actual alliances that take place.

For example, there's a group called International Solidarity Movement, which is holding conferences on American campuses, recruiting college students to go to the Middle East and obstruct Israeli security officials who are trying to protect Palestinians and Israelis from Islamic terrorists. There is the National Lawyers Guild, which was created as a Communist front in the 1930s, and the Center for Constitutional Rights, which provides all the lawyers attacking John Ashcroft over the terrorist detainees in Guantanamo. These groups, along with the ACLU, have organized more than 350 American cities to pass resolutions of non-cooperation with Homeland Security, and particularly, to forbid their police departments from cooperating with immigration authorities. Of course, our borders are our most vulnerable point in the War on Terror. These people are working for the enemy. And of course, if you think this country is Nazi Germany, the moral position would be to aid our enemies. But there are many Americans – many in our listening audience out there – who do not believe their country is Hitler’s Germany. They need to understand these leftists are their enemies and will help people to kill them.

Michael Medved: Okay Daniel, why is David Horowitz wrong?

Daniel Lazare: Well, first of all, I was very careful. I didn't draw an equation. I said it repeatedly, I'm making a comparison, not an equation. Hitler – Bush is not Hitler. Bush is not a Nazi. He's not a fascist. He's a very dangerous guy, but he's not that bad, okay?

Michael Medved: All right, let me – let's get one thing clear here. Daniel, I take it from your comments here and some other material that I've read of yours, you would like to see America lose the War on Terror, is that not correct?

Daniel Lazare: Let me explain this, please. I think the War on Terror is totally bogus. I think terrorism is a meaningless word, okay? Terrorism is what the other guy does to us. It's never what we do to the other guy. If a bunch of West Bank settlers go rampaging through – you know, shoot up a mosque, kill 35 people. That's never terrorism in David's book.

David Horowitz: Oh, I beg to differ with you.

Daniel Lazare: If guns were turned the other way, then, of course, it is terrorism.

continued...........

thedrifter
07-01-05, 07:17 AM
Michael Medved: Okay, what would you like to see happen, Daniel?

David Horowitz: Wait a minute. Once a deranged Israeli did what Daniel Lazare referred to. One deranged Israeli, not “a bunch of West Bank settlers.” He was arrested, and he was tried. He was condemned, not cheered, by the Israeli population.

Daniel Lazare: That will put flowers on a grave, David. Come on. Come on.

David Horowitz: The point is it was condemned as terrorism. And it wasn't part of a systematic and widely supported effort to terrorize a whole population, as the terrorism committed by Daniel’s Palestinian friends is.

Michael Medved: Okay, Daniel Lazare, you would like to see – what would you like to see happen regarding the Islamo-fascist movement?

Daniel Lazare: The Islamo-fascist movement?

Michael Medved: Yes, jihadi warriors that we are fighting right now.

Daniel Lazare: I want to see it defeated, obviously.

Michael Medved: What's that?

Daniel Lazare: I want to see it defeated, obviously, as I want to see the Jewish fascist movement and the Christian fascist movement defeated, okay?

David Horowitz: What’s that?

Michael Medved: Defeated by whom and how?

Daniel Lazare: By democratic forces, secular democratic forces.

Michael Medved: Such as? Who are the good guys in this –

Daniel Lazare: Socialist forces.

Michael Medved: So are there any good guys currently engaged in trying to counteract the murderous Islamic extremists?

Daniel Lazare: Sure.

Michael Medved: Who are the good guys?

Daniel Lazare: I'm trying to do it.

David Horowitz: Oh, come on now. Look, there wasn't one demonstration in front of the Iraqi embassy in the entire lead-up to the war that said to Saddam, "Disarm. Obey the UN resolution."

Daniel Lazare: David, you're actually talking to one of the few leftists with the – if I do say so myself –

David Horowitz: Who demonstrated in front of the Iraqi embassy?

Daniel Lazare: You're actually talking to one of the few leftists, if I do say so myself, with the courage to defend the Soviet incursion in Afghanistan.

Michael Medved: Okay, you were pro-Soviet regarding Afghanistan, which is what you'd call a courageous position. It was certainly a lonely position given the levels of Soviet genocide, which is so far worse than anything America's even been accused of. But we'll be right back with Daniel Lazare and David Horowitz. The name of David's provocative new book, the subject for discussion, Unholy Alliance.

Announcer: The Michael Medved Show.

Michael Medved: And in today's debate on the Michael Medved Show, I'm trying to be fair, but I don't pretend to be impartial. I actually admire and recommend David Horowitz's book, Unholy Alliance, and David and I have been friends for years.

I don't know Daniel Lazare, but I appreciate his coming on the show and debating David regarding David's book, which is about radical Islam and the American Left. Daniel Lazare is a frequent contributor to The Nation magazine.

Gentlemen, if it is possible briefly to sum up the arguments that we've covered so far. David Horowitz, it's your book we're talking about, Unholy Alliance. You go first.

David Horowitz: Well, I appreciate this show because what this discussion has done is to validate the historical perspective of my book. When Daniel Lazare says that he supported the Soviet Communist invasion of Afghanistan in 1979, which killed a million Afghan people, he completes the circle. I have tried to see what's going on in regard to the war in Iraq and the War on Terror, within the framework of the American Left that really got its foothold in America with the Russian Revolution in 1917. And this Left, which developed its institutions and its culture and its organizations during the Cold War and then the Vietnam War, has now gone into high gear with America's War on Terror. And all I ask is that people understand – and Daniel has made very clear – that these leftists, who supported the Communist enemy in the Cold War, are identifying with the very people we're fighting in the War on Terror. They think that we are – we're the bad guys and we need to be defeated.

Michael Medved: Okay, Daniel Lazare?

Daniel Lazare: Well, first of all, my point was [indiscernible] the Soviets were fighting the Islamic fundamentalists and Afghanistan in the ‘80s, and it was the U.S., the Saudis, and the Pakistanis who were pouring money into the coffers of Osama bin Laden. And that truth has never come out. Certainly, David doesn't discuss it in this book. David tries to ignore it, but that is the great damning truth behind this whole episode. Al-Qaeda is, to a remarkable degree, a creation of Pakistani intelligence, which was backed every step of the way by the U.S. The Afghan – the Mujahideen War ,was the most expensive, the biggest, the most ambitious CIA project in all the entire post-war period, and that's saying a great deal.

Michael Medved: Okay, so your basic position, as you've indicated, is sympathy for the Communists in Afghanistan and the “insurgents” in Fallujah. I hope, Daniel Lazare, that that doesn't lead you to applaud and to cheer when American Marines and civilians, Iraqi civilians, are blown up by those people, but your words leave me with no other conclusion.

David Horowitz's book is called Unholy Alliance: Radical Islam and the American Left. You know, strange illustrations of the arguments in his book have been seen in this debate with Daniel Lazare in this greatest nation on God's green earth.

Ellie