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View Full Version : Question: Is Marine Corps History "Dominated by Marines and Former Marines"?



gunnyg
10-22-02, 02:49 PM
http://h-net.msu.edu/cgi-bin/logbrowse.pl?trx=vx&list=h-war&month=0112&week=a&msg=yLQfv/HiikMQ6sV7qeXexg&user=&pw=

http://h-net.msu.edu/cgi-bin/logbrowse.pl?trx=vx&list=h-war&month=0112&week=a&msg=yLQfv/HiikMQ6sV7qeXexg&user=&pw=

Art
10-22-02, 04:29 PM
Thanks for the post. This is a discussion that is very much worth pursuing.

The question of 'objectivity' in military history is perhaps one that will never be answered. Can a Marine give an objective report of USMC history when he or she is a part of the story that is being told? It all comes down to the whole insider/outsider debate that plagues all those involved in qualitative research.

I think that to say a Marine 'cannot' tell USMC history would be going too far. Good history is good history. If a Marine happens to be a historian that can pull him or herself away from the particulars to observe the bigger picture, a good story will result.

When doing reserch, I like to keep anthropologist Clifford Geertz's phrase 'intellectual perpetual motion' in mind. Geertz said that the researcher should move between universals and particulars to become both an insider and an outsider. A Marine has the priviledged position of being an insider, which finishes half of the equation. For the Marine to be a historian, then, he or she must be able to stand outside this identity to look at it with a critical eye... Is this possible? Or is it just a vapid ideal? Personally, I don't think we can remove ourselves from our own histories. Thus, we can never become the perfect outsider -- with a value-free, prejudice-free, cultural-free perspective. I do think, however, that the goal of objectivity should be kept in mind. In other words, I think the researcher should try damn hard to be as objective as he or she possibly can.

Easier said than done...

I don't think this question is anywhere near being answered. But it's always fun to kick these ideas around...

gunnyg
10-22-02, 05:48 PM
I ran acroos this article today on the H-War site and it immediately rang a bell w/me.

Specifically, I thought of the work BGen Ed Simmons and Moskin have done in the book, Marines, e.g. dispelling certain myths in our own Marine Corps History, of....the phony red, "bloodstripe," the myth of Tun Tavern, the dating of the Marine "Corps" back to 1775, etc. And all of this coming from the Head of History and Museums of the Marine Corps himself!

Yet, most amazing of all is the fact that the Corps still allows this BS to continue to be taught at all. These are not just recently discovered facts; most of this stuff has been known for years.

Most Marines, when confronted by these things respond as though you'd just kicked their dog. So in many ways it is true that outsiders should be included in the act of writing history, but also in many ways those on the inside have also done a great job.

USMC0311
10-22-02, 05:49 PM
Its ALL about Pride, Honor and Respect

People, most people are Proud of their accomplishments.

Again, most people Honor the others that have served before, during and after them. The participants Respect the others for their service to the Organization.

In all organizations there is always the muther that needs to be something they ain't, so they embellish and lie about their accomplishments while serving.

In The Marine Corps, The Honor is in Serving. Pride is in Doing the job to the Best of ones ability.
Respect is found through The Honor, Courage and Commitment every Marine is instilled with..

For the muthers that don't think all that is enough, be forewarned, "If You lie about wtf U or others have dun, I will do my best to bust U.
http://www.usmc0311.com/images/bin/bull.jpg

Time for everyone to be accountable for their own actions..All of US