PDA

View Full Version : Marines Want Dark Tone Out of Dress Blues



booksbenji
03-21-05, 07:41 AM
:marine:

Marines Want Dark Tone Out of Dress Blues
Green now will be worn for notifying relatives of the dead. Some say the move is disrespectful.



By Tony Perry, Times Staff Writer


With the toll of Marines killed in Iraq mounting, the Marine Corps is no longer requiring the Marines notifying families of such deaths to wear the Corps' distinctive dress blue uniform.

The change, authorized by Commandant Gen. Michael Hagee, was made because the public was beginning to associate the blue uniform, usually worn during ceremonial or joyous occasions, with death and tragedy, officials said.

Officers and senior enlisted Marines making notification visits are now ordered to wear the Corps' green uniform, known as alphas.

The switch has caused a rift among active-duty and retired Marines. Some, including recruiters and casualty assistance officers, applaud the switch. But others say it smacks of disrespect for the dead Marines and their families.

"Casualty notification is a solemn event and deserves full honors," said Col. John Toolan, who disagrees with the switch.

Toolan, who led the 1st Marine Regiment during the 2003 assault on Baghdad and April's offensive in Fallouja, said the dress blues were a perfect symbol of "a noble profession that must often balance the euphoria of battles won and the pain of brothers lost."

But Gunnery Sgt. Cindy Grubb, operations chief for the Corps' casualty branch, said wearing the dress blues while notifying families had begun to associate the uniform unfairly with bad news.

"We want to keep that positive image of the blues," she said.

The latest casualty count shows 1,513 members of the U.S. military killed in Iraq, including more than 460 Marines. Most of the Marines were part of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force based at Camp Pendleton.

The uniform change, announced to Marines last month, is part of an overhaul of the Corps' procedure for notifying families and providing them with emotional and financial support.

The goal is to make notifications quicker and with more information about the cause of death and then be able to provide help for family members, including aid in arranging funerals and burials. Marine Corps brass were displeased after the assault on Baghdad with how casualty notifications were being handled on the home front.

The dress blue uniforms are still authorized for funerals and memorial services, as well as weddings, Toys for Tots events and the annual Marine Corps birthday celebration. Considered the most distinctive of all U.S. military uniforms, the dress blues are also featured in Marine Corps recruiting advertisements.

The green uniform, akin to a business suit, is worn, for example, when Marines testify before Congress or address community groups.

Marine Corps policy requires that families be notified in person of a relative's death. Marines making the calls are backed by a Navy chaplain and sometimes a corpsman or doctor.

Although all military services have procedures for assisting family members, the Marine Corps prides itself on outdoing the other services by surrounding the grieving family with support. Only the Marine Corps required notification officers to wear dress uniform.

The switch was announced in an order from Hagee to all Marines. "A negative connotation has been attached to Marines in the dress blue uniform because of the death notifications," the order said. "This is contrary to the pride and tradition of the dress blue uniform."

Though the switch has gone largely unnoticed among civilians, it has been the subject of considerable debate on websites and publications geared to the military community.

"I think this is a slap in the face to Marines and their families," retired Master Sgt. Frederick C. Montney III of Newark, Del., said of the switch to alphas. "If we do this, why don't we just show up in cammies?" he asked, referring to the common camouflage uniforms.

But 1st Sgt. Stephen A. Thomas said he had seen scared looks on people's faces when they spotted Marines in the dress blue uniform.

Thomas said he was on his way to a community event at Greensboro, N. C., when a woman spotted him and "immediately had this horrible look on her face and asked me if I was going to deliver bad news."

"The association of dress blues and bad news should not be something the Marine Corps should be promoting, unintentionally or not," he said.

Retired Col. John Kaheny of San Diego said the dress blues had always been linked to the idea of Marines being killed.

Marine lore, Kaheny noted, holds that the red stripe on the side of the trousers represents blood shed by Marines during the U.S. war with Mexico in 1847, events known as the battle for the Halls of Montezuma.

"I guess I'm a traditionalist," said Kaheny, who opposes shifting to the green uniform.



Ifin it ain't don't fix it

Semper Fi
books
:marine:

OLE SARG
03-21-05, 08:14 AM
I think the Commandant and his Staff need to re-think this dumbass decision. Makes you wonder what in the hell their thinking is on this one. I agree wholeheartedly with Colonel Toolan on this issue.

"Casualty notification is a solemn event and deserves full honors," said Col. John Toolan, who disagrees with the switch.

I haven't researched this yet but I think a nasty email is in order for the Commandant. Anyone know his email address?

****ED IN KANSAS CITY,
OLE SARG

USMC-FO
03-21-05, 09:04 AM
Well I guess this is one of those situations where honorable folk will disagree honorably. I think Gen Hagee has made the right decison here. Like it or not, if in the publics mind, the sight of a Marine in Blues in the neighborhood is linked to a death then I feel the long term damage could be significant. Personnally I do not feel any Marine is dishonored if a breavement officer is in greens vs blues. My perspective is that the Blues represent intigrity, honor and scarifice and would be an absolute "must" at a funeral.

Toby M
03-21-05, 09:15 AM
Let me see if I understand this correctly...if I see two Marines coming down my sidewalk in greens, I am to think that they are just visiting but if I see them in dress blues, I will automatically know they are there with bad news, right? Hmmmm, does this sound like more political correctness B.S.? 'nuff said...

yellowwing
03-21-05, 11:04 AM
The uniform change, announced to Marines last month, is part of an overhaul of the Corps' procedure for notifying families and providing them with emotional and financial support.
Remember the bereaved father that set the Marine Corps van on fire? I don't think it would have mattered what the Notification Detail was wearing.

The Uniform decision by the Commandant is part of a whole different plan to better handle notifications. The man that set our van on fire was in the news for weeks. We don't need that kind of media circus.

I'm sure that the new procedures that have been ordered were not done lightly.

mrbsox
03-21-05, 12:08 PM
Sounds like just so much PC BS to me also. I can’t believe the Corps policies are succumbing to FEELINGS.

If 2 Marines and a Navy Chaplain get out of the car in front of the house, and they are wearing dress Alpha’s, Mom will automatically think they are bringing tea and cookies??

I find it hard to imagine ANY Marine getting dressed for that duty, and not feeling a ‘sorrowful pride’ with EVERY button he puts on, every step he takes, every speck of polish… The uniform won’t change the feelings.
The dress Blues means MARINE…
living AND dead.
It means UNITED STATES MARINE,
past and present. Maybe the general public doesn’t understand. They don’t have to. The MARINES know, and they are HONORING one of our own. Let them do so in the best looking uniform in the world.

And, if public image is all that important, then maybe the recruiters should START promising every recruit a ‘ROSE GARDEN’.

:marine:

Sgt Sostand
03-21-05, 12:40 PM
That Crazy

JuicyJ
03-21-05, 12:42 PM
As a young Marine, I've always associated dress blues with the core values of the Marine Corps as a whole - honor, courage and commitment. I think that sometimes the higher-ups of the Corps go a little too far in trying to maintain a certain public view of us. We need to balance how important our history is with how important the public's view of us is.

In my opinion, in an elite military organization with such rich tradition and history as my Corps, maintaining our tradition is much more important. This change is obviously extremely unpopular with active duty Marines and retired Marines alike.

hrscowboy
03-21-05, 02:51 PM
Hello Hello Duh what have i been saying all along about the New Marine Corps verses The Old Marine Corps... You damn right this is extremely unpopular with us Old Salts and its not the first thing to really upset us either..

Sgt.Mike
03-21-05, 03:47 PM
More PC I can't believe the Commandant is bowing to civilian and
political pressure. Who cares what people think DRESS BLUES are
the honor to all Marines and should stay that way.

greensideout
03-21-05, 07:47 PM
This is not for real. No way! This has to be bogus scuttlebutt!

The Marine Corps does not bend or change it's traditions for anyone or anything---EVER!

We would gladly offer up an explaination of what THIS UNIFORM represents.

We would glady tell of why we wear THIS UNIFORM to present grave news.

But---We would also stand tall and say, "We will wear THIS UNIFORM as long as there is a United States Marine Corps and at this grevious hour, THIS UNIFORM is worn to give honor to those who have given their life in the service of their country while serving as a United States Marine".

To make this change is not the Marine Corps I know!

There's something wrong with this story.

Semper Fi,
GSO

GySgtRet
03-21-05, 08:04 PM
Sounds like a hoax to me...??? My Marine Corps would not change Marine Corps traditions because of political correctness.

Semper Fidelis

Arlene Horton
03-21-05, 08:42 PM
Two years ago my brother-in-law was buried in the Veteran's cemetary at the Grand Army Home in King, WI. Wesley was a veteran of WWII who served honorably "evicting" the Japanese who were hiding in the island's caves. He had the usual military funeral with a firing squad as well as a military honor guard present...an Army Sgt. & a Marine Corps gunnery Sgt. The soldier was wearing the regular summer uniform but the Marine was in dress blues. Big difference and no question who looked more dignified. He also was the one who presented us with the American flag which draped his coffin. My husband & I being former Marines and his younger brother who was medically unfit for service were comforted that Wes was given the honorable burial he richly deserved. Dress blues really made it memorable. I hope that there is enough "static" over the change that the Commandant recinds the change. Semper Fi
Arlene

cbqrr47
03-21-05, 09:26 PM
When I was in the Corps, I owned a set of blues and I thought they were the best looking uniform in the world, but I also thought that greens were just about as classey (much better than trops). I also loved wearing greens. They were very professional looking. I liked the p*ss cutter the best. My wife still carrys a photo of me in greens (with a p*ss cutter), in her purse, after 35 years.

yellowwing
03-22-05, 02:07 AM
G*dammit, listen to the message NOT the media massaged editorialiazed Page 1 Selling Head Line!

Thats's what the these media monkeys get paid for! A sensationalised headline and like a trained pup, that's all you and the civilian readership focus on.

Read the whole damn story before you fly off the handle.

If you read the whole thing, then you can rationally state your stand. And GD'it I'll respect it!

THE CMC does not like the current standard of notification. Think about the WHY before the what to wear!

yellowwing
03-22-05, 02:12 AM
Yes, I'm a bit uptight about this. General Magee has a good reason about this.

Do you want to follow the left wing rational, or do you want to respect and obey the Commandant's Orders?

kentmitchell
03-22-05, 04:28 AM
Hey, why greens? Why not civvies?

al20852
03-22-05, 07:52 AM
I don't think any of us knows all of the facts on which the Commandant based his decision. Maybe it was based on feedback from the families of the hundreds of Marines killed in Iraq. Maybe it was a poilitical call. Without all of the facts, it is silly to second guess and criticize the decision. I for one am willing to accept the fact that the Commandant had good reasons for making the switch and will leave it at that.

Patty_McOorah
03-22-05, 09:24 AM
Fellow Marines. I agree with all of you on this. I am sure that the Corps had their reasons to make the change, but I am sure that I am with all of you when I say after I pass, i hope that dosen't happen untill I am out and retired, but if they dont show up to tell my mother in dress blues, I think both her and I would feel cheated.

CHOPPER7199
03-23-05, 10:36 AM
What are they doing to my Corp? Now they let them wear cammies, alot posted on that also about how they treat it,the civilians and what ever. My question is, why now? Look at the past,never had problems like this. Are we that great, that some one is feeding us and the public alot of crap and this is to down grade us. Well, this old Jarhead is upset, the old grunt here tells me something is wrong in the kitchen. I know the Corp. has changed alot, but to mess with the uniform, the tradition and all is just to much. Just my view.