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TeufelHunden
06-26-02, 04:28 PM
...This is enough to make someone go postal, good thing momma made me get rid of all the firearms when we started having kids!!!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/showcase/sns-ap-pledge-of-allegiance0626jun26.story?coll=chi%2Dnews%2Dhed

LadyLeatherneck
06-26-02, 05:08 PM
"Although students cannot be forced to participate in recitation of the pledge, the school district is nonetheless conveying a message of state endorsement of a religious belief when it requires public school teachers to recite, and lead the recitation of, the current form of the pledge," the court said.

Well, we say the Pledge of Allegiance every morning at the school
I work at here in California. The principal just asks to please rise
and join us in the pledge. They're not forced to do it. I'm sick
of all the public school BS and that's why I have my kids in a private
Catholic school. They recite the Pledge and sing the National
Anthem every morning.

USMC0311
06-26-02, 06:16 PM
I Pledge Allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic, for which it stands, One Nation under God, Indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for All.

http://userpages.aug.com/haywire/history.html

JAMarine
06-26-02, 06:37 PM
To Whom It May Concern;


I Pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation Under God , indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

http://www.usflag.org/i.am.the.flag.html

There! I said it and Believe it.

LadyLeatherneck
06-26-02, 06:56 PM
I think I'll write the PLEDGE on my car back windshield just to ****
off some Cali Liberals...he he he!!

GOD, COUNTRY, CORPS!!

USMC0311
06-26-02, 07:07 PM
"In God We Trust"

Americans have survived greater changes.

God Country and Corps...learned that in Boot!

GunsUp
06-26-02, 07:09 PM
It’s interesting to note that Mr. Newdow with his smug reply that he was “pleased with the results of the decision and will continue to fight to uphold the Constitution”, since after doing some checking, he never held any sort of public office or served in any of the branches of the military.

His lawsuit reminds us that we are all very fortunate to live in a society where freedoms can and are taken for granted and the sacrifices made by others are easily forgotten (it’s been 9 months since 9/11 and how many people do you see still standing tall with patriotism?). Yes, we have the freedom of choice and freedom of religion but we also teach tolerance and respect for others. To me, his stance is to stamp out all vestiges of the Judeo-Christian morals and values that our forefathers used to establish the free society that we live in today. He is the type of person that would allow others to go out and die for his rights and forget them when the wounded come home from those beautiful vacation spots of Vietnam, Beirut, Panama, Grenada, Iraq, and Afghanistan. His children will be raised in belief that freedom is free and it’s a human right that is guaranteed just because that what a piece of paper called the Bill of Rights says. I feel for his children as they will never know or understand sacrifice, whether it’s time spent on fire watch or watching an eighteen year old buddy die from a sucking chest wound because he was where he wanted to be, fighting for his buddies and his beliefs.

If Mr. Newdow really doesn’t like the way the school system does business, maybe he should withdraw his children and home-school them in the manner he sees fit, instilling his beliefs and values versus the beliefs and values on which this great country was founded. They (the children) are given an option of reciting the pledge or choosing to remain silent, which is in my opinion a fair choice. I suppose his problem is that he spends all his time out pursuing the almighty dollar (Which is ironic as it says “In God We Trust” on all the currency!) and expects the state to raise his children.

I thank God for all the freedoms that I have and the opportunity to have served with men and women who understand that and not to have taken those freedoms for granted. I also thank God that my daughter has the opportunity to enjoy those freedoms because I and others have sacrificed parts of our lives to ensure those freedoms, especially those who gave the ultimate sacrifice.


Semper Fi,

Guns Up

LadyLeatherneck
06-26-02, 07:15 PM
Anybody know where I can purchase that paint stuff
that will come off when you wash the car. I'm seriously
going to do it. In big old letters on the back of my car



ONE NATION, UNDER GOD!!!

GunsUp
06-26-02, 07:31 PM
Just use white shoe polish. I'm sure you have some around the squad bay...

LadyLeatherneck
06-26-02, 07:45 PM
No white shoe polish..just black :)
Good idea though, I'm on a recon mission....
Target here I come!

mpwildes
06-26-02, 07:47 PM
Lets just get rid of the National Anthem, Marines hymn, ect ect. Unconstitiutional my A**. Is it unconstitutional to display the American Flag? No. But it's unconstitiutional to burn our flag in protest. So I guess we can just add the Pledge of Alligence to that category too. Don't take this the wrong way out there but Mothers of America all have happy pen writing hands to their congressman. Like the Marines who get scared when the "Fight's on!" call their mommy's and daddies and they call their good frined Jim who owes them a favor and also is a congressman or senator and they get out it. Why join then? Why be Considered an American?

LadyLeatherneck
06-26-02, 08:10 PM
Good valid points there hardcharger.

I will continue to fly the Flag.

I will continue to say the Pledge.

I will continue to sing the National Anthem.

I will continue to be an American :)

Semper Fi!

NamGrunt68
06-26-02, 08:28 PM
I betcha dat left wing liberal sum***** don't have no problems spendin them green bills with "In God We Trust" on the back o them !!!! I hope that Bastard develops a dose of the clap and gives it to everyone of his Leftist Judge azzhole buddies out there on the Left Coast........

FutureDevilDog
06-26-02, 08:28 PM
This is ridiculous, no one makes people in school say the pledge. I am going to follow ladyleatherneck's example and paint, "One Nation, Under God" on the back window of my car. I hope that the Senate does intervene is this matter like they are trying to do and overturn this horribly mis-guided decision. mpwildes, I agree with what you are saying. God help us all if some hippie judge in California can declare the pledge unconstitutional.
Semper Fi
-Chad

arzach
06-26-02, 09:25 PM
dammit this has gone way to far. these people need a wake-up call/blanket party too p---ed off to say anymore! rick

MCpride
06-26-02, 10:55 PM
Well, I heard that the Senate vote to overturn the 9th Circuit Court's decision was 99 to 0.... Gee, I wonder who the coward was that didn't have the guts to vote!!!!


U N D E R G O D

MCpride
06-26-02, 11:12 PM
Great idea LadyLeatherneck. I think that I'll do the same on the rear window of my car... I think you can get that paint stuff at most craft stores.


TO THE REST OF YA:
just wait until they declare the Constitution to be UNCONSTITUTIONAL :mad:

Grunt
06-27-02, 12:08 AM
You know "under god" does not necessarily mean the Christian god. Granted that may have been the god the authors intended to address, but in the American tradition of freedom of religion the term "God" could explain the god of any religion chosen by the individual saying the pledge. Hell, it could even be interpreted as many "gods" in some religions. If a person doesn’t believe in god, a god, or many gods just let them say one nation under freedom. I think that declaring The Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional is just way too extreme especially for the America that just really isn’t ready for that kind of un-patriotic manner right now. A Master Sergeant I once served under put it best when he said "I don’t give a damn what god you believe in as long as you put that god before country and corps!!"

mpwildes
06-27-02, 12:45 AM
Why should we change the Pledge. Where have we ever told anyone they have to say it or they have to say what we want them to say? Freedom of Speech right? I don't think that has changed. If the kids don't want to say the part "Under God" then they don't have to. Be speechless at that part is so need be, But let not have Mothers of America make up the minds of our childrens views. I better quit before I go off the deep end.

Semper Fi,

TeufelHunden
06-27-02, 08:01 AM
...But, I too wonder if the atheist prick who brought the original lawsuit has a problem spending money with the words 'In God We Trust' inscribed thereon?!? :mad:

thedrifter
06-27-02, 09:27 AM
Protect the Pledge of Allegiance...
Take it out of Liberal Judges forever...
Let them here your voice......

A Worthy Petition....

Sempers,

Roger




http://www.millionsofamericans.com/clients/moa/current_project/index.cfm

USMC0311
06-27-02, 02:21 PM
Little Bit O inspiration :)
http://www.usmc0311.com/images/bin/prayingflag.jpg
"The Price of Freedom is etched in stone" Our Patriots have insured our Freedoms.

SgtMac
06-27-02, 02:25 PM
When I recite the Pledge of Allegience, I am not pledging allegience to any religious figure (God, Allah, Buddha, the Great Spirit, etc). My pledge is to the Flag and through it to my Country. So whether the words "Under God" exist within that pledge or not is immaterial. Whatever the law says is the Pledge is what I will recite.
As stated earlier, these atheists sure don't hesitate to spend cash bearing the words "In God We Trust". Maybe we should prohibit them from having any so they don't bend their 'ideals'.

gwladgarwr
06-27-02, 03:54 PM
The Senate cannot vote to overturn any court decision; this is not the jurisdiction of the legislative branch – it is the domain of the judicial branch, namely, the Supreme Court.

The Supreme Court would be hard-pressed to overturn the lower court's decision and to explain the constitutionality of mandatory recitation of the Pledge in schools, regardless of whether the Pledge mentions a deity or not . The Supreme Court would also have to explain just how constitutional it is to be forced to profess faith in something or someone.

Article III of the Bill of Rights states: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press..."

President Eisenhower's Executive Order which set the final wording of the Pledge and the "mandatory" recitation thereof is a clear violation of three of the tenets of Article III - government endorsement of a religion or of religion in general, prohibition of free exercise of religion (or of no religion), and of abridgement of free speech (by being open to retribution for refusing to be forced to say something not part of one's one own belief system.)

As a United States Marine, I have sworn to uphold and protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. I did not, in spite of those who wish to force upon one and all a particular religious belief, swear to give up my freedom of speech or freedom of religious beliefs (and freedom FROM religious belief). I DO pledge allegiance to my flag without a doubt and do so willingly, but I do not do so with "under God" and nor do I believe we are "one Nation under God". I will not be forced to repeat a line or message that I cannot and do not accept, endorse, or embrace. It is highly presumptuous on the part of the government (according to the Constitution, WE are the government) and the people to speak on my behalf on ANY subject, be it religious or political.)

Simple omission of the phrase “under God” hardly mitigates making reciting the Pledge mandatory. If it is to be mandatory (how can one legislate patriotism?), all government endorsement of any and all religion must be avoided. By extension, it can be deduced that “In God We Trust” should be removed from our currency and “in the Year of our Lord” deleted from all official documentation. The government is NOT in the business of promoting any particular faith or religion. This is the very thing the Founding Fathers and the patriots were fighting against regarding the Church of England and state-sponsored religion (although this goes very little to explain why “God” was still mentioned in the Constitution and Declaration.)

“Liberals” and “atheist a—holes” are not attempting to bend the will of the people to “their way of thinking.” On the contrary, it is the other way around. These are citizens who are actually living the Constitution as it was meant to be. I could hardly say that for all those who force “atheists” or religious non-conformists to accept the religious beliefs of others – regardless of how “popular” or “righteous” that belief may be to some. To say that ruling the mandatory reciting of the Pledge (with or without mention of “under God”) is unpatriotic is shallow and narrow-minded. I will lay down my life for my country in a hearbeat to protect our freedom; however, it seems that the freedom that some have in mind for the rest of the country has strings attached of the religious type. That is NOT what I am defending.

LCpl Race, aka gwladgarwr ("patriot" in Welsh)

TeufelHunden
06-27-02, 04:00 PM
...Do you have a problem earning and spending money with the words 'In God We Trust' inscribed thereon?

gwladgarwr
06-27-02, 04:33 PM
Please refer to my posting; I've clearly stated my position regarding the mentioning of "God" in US currency and other official government publications, decrees, and proclamations.

In short: yes, I do have a problem with spending cash with "God" mentioned on it. I do not "trust in God", nor do I expect my government to remind me that I should.

Besides, I use a check card.

TeufelHunden
06-27-02, 04:42 PM
...In an effort to maintain the civility expected on these forums, I'm gonna have to hold my tongue and typing fingers in check. I'll just take solice in the fact that I'm sure the ruling will be overturned, as history has shown that a good number of the 9th's rulings are.

Know this, my children have always recited, and will continue to recite the Pledge in their respective schools. If politicos try to decide otherwise, we will recite it as a family every day before they go to school.

Of course, the fact that we believe in a Supreme Being (God), makes it a bit easier.

arzach
06-27-02, 07:40 PM
i'm not gonna 'take off' on lcpl race's comments, normally i would. he needs to re-read what he wrote as quoted from the constitution! 'IN GOD WE TRUST' ON CURRENCY IS NO ENDORSEMENT BY THE GOVERNMENT, MERELY A MOTTO. the founding fathers never figured there would be the kind of 'pinheads' running around like we have today. THEY were all christian, God-fearing men. they made the mistake of thinking all who followed them would be likewise! we as a nation, are great because of our belief in God, turning our backs will only alienate him from us. if anyone has a problem spending our currenc , don't use it! this includes 'plastic' . turn it all in and go on about your business! arzach rick johnson

Bloodstripe
06-27-02, 07:47 PM
I think I will file a lawsuit and say my rights are being infringed on now because they ruled the pledge unconstitutional. Sometimes it just ****es me off with all this politically correct B.S. I have to agree with L.L that is a good idea about putting that on my back window on my truck. Hell I'm surprised that they won’t be trying to change the constitution next!!!! IF YOU DONT LIKE WHAT IT SAYS IN THE PLEDGE DONT SAY IT.... I DONT SEE ANYONE HOLDING A GUN TO YOUR HEAD. I am so sick and tired of these cry baby's whining about hurt feelings so they feel the whole world should cater to them. So lets change it so the minority can have there way...What ever happened to majority rules...Oh I forgot I shouldn’t rant and rave like this it might offended someone, guess I should be more politically correct...ya right!!!

gwladgarwr
06-27-02, 07:53 PM
With all due respect, and with no intention to insult, I find it rather frightening that you find solace in the very-real possibility of the Supreme Court's overturning the 9th's decision which affirms the freedom of religion as well as FROM religion and demonstrates re-affirmation of the 3rd Amendment. If the high court rules against the 9th, I may have to wonder if we actually have a Bill of Rights.

The central argument for this ruling is that the government cannot endorse any religious faith or favor one over another. Though religious faith for many is a very real and meaningful thing, this does not justify forcing those who do not accept those beliefs to be obligated to observe or accept them. This is what is happening day in and day out by those who think others should worship as they do. Religious self-righteousness as witnessed in our society today does not justify forcing others to accept another's religious faith as "truth", and, by extension, as a constitutionally-acceptable custom and a government-endorsed religion, which, as the 9th ruled, it definitely is not.

Those who assail the court for its ruling believe that their religious rights are being taken away. How blind and hypocritical they are. Those who believe differently already have had their freedom of religion infringed upon. Believers profess desire for freedom and liberty for all, yet force others to be subjected to their religious beliefs; when the court finally rules that this practice is unconstitutional and is itself the "robber of religious freedom" for all - and not only for believers - people of religious faith howl with indignation. The Constitution does not favor those with religious affiliation at the expense of other citizens. Similarly, the court ruling that mandatory reciting of the Pledge as is currently written (amended 1957) with mention of "under God" is unconstitutional does not deprive citizens of freedom of religion - it states that authorities cannot coerce anyone - child, man, or woman - to recite anything not in accordance with one's own beliefs. One is free to practice or NOT to practice any faith as long as the free exercise of said right does not infringe on any other rights of others.

Perhaps you said it right: practice your faith privately. However, do not force others to practice along with you or presume to dictate my religious beliefs to me or to the rest of the country, regardless of how fervent your belief may be.

Semper Fidelis,

LCpl Race (gwladgarwr)

arzach
06-27-02, 08:01 PM
political correctness sucks! say what ya mean/mean what ya say! if you feel 'offended' you probably should be! TUFF F---IN S--T! cry me a river! Bloodstripe, you're righter than rain! Semper Fi! arzach

gwladgarwr
06-27-02, 08:10 PM
Originally posted by arzach
i'm not gonna 'take off' on lcpl race's comments, normally i would. he needs to re-read what he wrote as quoted from the constitution! 'IN GOD WE TRUST' ON CURRENCY IS NO ENDORSEMENT BY THE GOVERNMENT, MERELY A MOTTO. the founding fathers never figured there would be the kind of 'pinheads' running around like we have today. THEY were all christian, God-fearing men. they made the mistake of thinking all who followed them would be likewise! we as a nation, are great because of our belief in God, turning our backs will only alienate him from us. if anyone has a problem spending our currenc , don't use it! this includes 'plastic' . turn it all in and go on about your business! arzach rick johnson

Actually, I would kindly suggest that Sgt Johnson re-read the Constitution. Such mottoes, whether found on currency, postage, or offical government documents, DOES most certainly suggest government endorsement of religion. A motto is not merely a comment made in passing or a quote made as an afterthought.

That's very enlightening that our Founding Fathers were "God-fearing Christians." I have the fortune of not being a "God-fearing Christian". Of course, you are certainly entitled to your opinion that "turning one's back" will "alienate us from God". Since I don't believe in a God and state that there is no God, I have no fear of alienation.

Your suggestion that I don't spend our currency because of the mention of God serves only as another reminder that religious self-righteousness and intolerance is alive and well in this country despite years of strides in equality. It is not political correctness that you accuse your liberal rivals of spouting - this is the equal protection and due process under the law as rightfully should be practiced in this coutntry.

Please be reminded of the reason why the first Puritan Pilgrims sailed over to Plymouth, or why the Mormons made the trek from Missouri to Deseret, or why the Huguenots fled France for England. In the same vein, remember the Salem Witch trials that the descendants of the first Pilgrims set up to purge themselves of "evil" intent. It goes both ways, Sgt.

Semper Fidelis,

LCpl Race (gwladgarwr(

gwladgarwr
06-27-02, 08:18 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by mpwildes
[B]Lets just get rid of the National Anthem, Marines hymn, ect ect. Unconstitiutional my A**. Is it unconstitutional to display the American Flag? No. But it's unconstitiutional to burn our flag in protest.

Actually, burning the American flag in protest is not against the law or unconstitutional. Protected under the 1st Amendment under freedom of speech. Not one I'd recommend practicing myself, though.

There is no mention of "God" in the Marines' Hymn - only "If the Army and the Navy/Ever look on Heaven's scenes...". However, the fourth verse of the National Anthem does read "In God is our trust...". Only the first verse of Francis Scott Key's poem is recognized as our official National Anthem (since 1931).

LCpl Race (gwladgarwr)

Bloodstripe
06-27-02, 08:27 PM
Well Arzach I am so ticked off at all this politically correct crap. You see what alot of this has gotten us. Look at half of the youth today. Its what can you do for me? Cater to MY needs. Careful what you say, we don’t want to offend little Tommy’s feelings.
Sure Mr. terrorist come into our country, we shouldn’t search you...it might hurt your feelings. Oh you’re of Middle Eastern descent, your right we shouldn’t keep an eye out on you. That wouldn’t be right. Oh I understand we are at war right now but if we categorize you...well that wouldn’t be right. But. If I go to your country and being the AMERICAN that I am...I AM A TARGET...But that’s ok.




IN GOD WE TRUST

Grunt
06-28-02, 12:16 AM
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but your complaints of today's youth and political correctness are highly uncalled for. When exactly was the last time you actually said the pledge of allegiance? I know I can’t remember the last time I said it. I don’t consider myself "today's youth" but I guarantee you if political correctness was taken a little more seriously in past generations maybe "today’s youth" wouldn’t have to complain so much about it. Today's youth has no war to protest, no civil rights to fight for, and thanks to the generation before them has to face the world as taught to them by their single mothers. If there has been any generation that needed the catering, it is the boomers that generation is all about number one and can only blame themselves for letting the next generation end up the way it is. So maybe your right, lets get rid of political correctness and leave Colin Powell unemployed, forget any diplomatic relationships we have with all foreign countries, and put Christianity back in schools. Then maybe next we can have substantial gun control, non-Christian holocaust, funny hair, and half cropped moustaches. Oh hey, let’s make our special forces blond haired, blue eyed, 6 foot tall white guys too!!!

Grunt
06-28-02, 12:29 AM
"Children today are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food, and tyranize their teachers."

Socrates- (470-399 B.C.)

USMC0311
06-28-02, 05:52 AM
KILL...If U ever did KILL Y the hell would ya announce it..
Kinda harsh ain't it Grunt?

TeufelHunden
06-28-02, 12:19 PM
...Unless I feel compelled to reply otherwise :o

IMHO, one cannot be more hypocritical, than to have no problem whatsoever, earning and spending $$$ with the words 'In God We Trust' inscribed thereon. I say this without trepidation whatsoever, if I'm that guy's, the atheist prick's boss/supervisor, I'm firing his ass. If he's that firm in his atheist ways, I see no reason paying him, or anyone else who feels the same, in money he rightfully earned, so they can spend said money with the forbidden word thereon, because doing so would be against my principles & quite frankly my good common sense.

LadyLeatherneck
06-28-02, 01:34 PM
< Standing BEHIND Teufel > :)

Bloodstripe
06-28-02, 06:21 PM
Grunt
As a matter of fact I said the Pledge about a month ago at a graduation. And as far as your comment about "I hate to be the bearer of bad news but your complaints of today's youth and political correctness are highly uncalled for" Who appointed you the bearer of bad news, and why would you think I would think what you had to say was "Bad news"? And my comment's uncalled for? WHAT? Because I think the kids now days are disrespectful that’s uncalled for? Let me tell you something. In my day when an adult spoke to you, you responded with "YES SIR" or "NO MAM" ...What ever the case may be. Not with this crap of "YA" and then an eye roll. You went out and got a job and worked for what you wanted...didn’t expect it to come to you on a silver platter.

And you also said that if political correctness was taken a little more seriously in past generations maybe "today’s youth" wouldn’t have to complain so much about it. Tell me what do they have to complain about? Huh?

And so because someone was raised by a single mother gives him or her the excuse to do what ever ...BS!!!! You see that’s one of the big problems...NO ONE WANTS TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THERE ACTIONS!!!!! I robbed the store and killed the storekeeper because I was raise by a single mom...B.S!!!!!
And if you think by getting rid of political correctness and leave Colin Powell unemployed, forget any diplomatic relationships we have with all foreign countries, and put Christianity back in schools. Then maybe next we can have substantial gun control, non-Christian holocaust, funny hair, and half cropped moustaches. Oh hey, let’s make our Special Forces blond haired, blue eyed, 6-foot tall white guys too!!!.... Then you sure do live in a different world then I do.... In my world you work for what you want, Don’t ask for hand outs, Be respectful to your elders...And since you like to quote famous people...here’s one for you....

"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"
JFK

LadyLeatherneck
06-28-02, 06:52 PM
Did you get all that out in one breathe?!!...LOL! I'm with you 100% my
brother....and AMEN to the quote....

"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

that's one of my favorites.

Bloodstripe
06-28-02, 07:30 PM
LadyLeatherneck, trust me I could say more but my fingers were tiring out...:) Glad to see I have some back up....SEMPER FI

thedrifter
06-28-02, 07:54 PM
I SALUTE ALL MY FELLOW MARINES WHO HAVE STOOD UP AND DEFENDED OUR WAY OF LIFE.

AMERICA LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT

Sempers,

Roger

http://www.ajmatthews.com/1memorialUSA.jpg

wrbones
06-28-02, 08:18 PM
Ok fellers, break, go to your corners, have a beer and remember. We be family here. Sempers folks. At least ya were using a certain amount of fact and truth. Anyone read the WHOLE Declaration of Independence lately. The Constitution only works as legislated and is interpreted by the Supreme Court. The problem may lie elsewhere. Rethink your strategy, Marines. Don't be gettin mad at someone else and taking it out on yer squad.

arzach
06-28-02, 09:14 PM
very well put,bloodstripe! catch your wind, have a brew on me.:D as for grunt, continue with your way of thinking,and you'll eventually either figure it out, or fall by the wayside. my generation worked for what we got, nothing given, treated our elders with respect,and did our country's bidding. granted there were a few 'potheads' and believe me they are STILL A SORRY BUNCH! with sorry azzed kids! arzach

Grunt
06-29-02, 01:57 AM
Trust me ya'll. I was, by no means, trying to hack on your generation's way of doing things. I am a member of the so called X generation but grew up learning a very different lesson and acting in a very different way than your complaints address. I have worked very hard for where I am today and what I have accomplished and if I ever even thought of disrespecting any elders my ancestors would jump from their graves and get me!!! I don’t know if it is because of where I grew up, or because of the kind of peers I associated with, but this is the general consensus of many people my age that I come in contact with. Every generation will have something bad to say about the generation after it. This is especially true if you seek to find the bad, which is why I quoted Socrates. Imagine if he saw the progress the world has made today, do you really think he would complain about the generation that made any form of religious practice free from persecution (to most legal extents), and (due to political correctness) the equal treatment of ALL people regardless of color or creed.. I doubt it, but he'd probably still ***** about the youth of his day just like I'll probably do about my children's generation!
I in no way believe in any religion but Christianity, and ask on a daily basis what it is (besides pay taxes) I can do for my country. The same country that has freedom of religion and the freedom from persecution of not wanting to pledge your allegiance to a specific god. This country has made some serious social gains that can not all be contributed to just one generation. Trust me on this, even if it might seem that that next generation is "falling by the wayside" well, rest assured, this is America and you are in damn good hands.

Grunt
06-29-02, 02:01 AM
C'mon ref there aint nothing wrong with a little sibbling rivalry. Its all in good taste' to an extent!

NamGrunt68
06-29-02, 06:17 AM
Well after Shaffer finishes with me, I'll probably get the boot but ......

Any sum***** that agrees with removing the "Pledge" to our Flag in schools or anywhere else can get the fvck out of my Country. I got over 58,000 bro's on that ugly piece of black stone in DC that stood by their desks in school when they were kids and said it....then they went to Nam to Fight for it, and they DIED FOR IT !!! If you don't like MY PLEDGE TO MY FLAG then you ain't no kind of Marine that I would have wanted in a fighten hole with me in Nam.....matter of fact you ain't no kind of Marine at all if you believe that......turn in your Eagle, Anchor and Globe and get the HELL OUT !! You just SLAPPED EVERYONE O MY BRO'S IN THE FACE and I wouldn't trust you in a ****house with a muzzle on !!!!
PLEASE DON'T EDIT !!

NamGrunt68
06-29-02, 06:18 AM
I ain't even had my NAPALMED JAVA YET !!!

NamGrunt68
06-29-02, 07:27 AM
My Rifle - The Creed of a United States Marine
by MGen William H. Rupertus, USMC Retired
(written following the attack on Pearl Harbor)
This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.

My rifle, without me, is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will...

My rifle and myself know that what counts in this war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count. We will hit...

My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strength, its parts, its accessories, its sights and its barrel. I will ever guard it against the ravages of weather and damage as I will ever guard my legs, my arms, my eyes and my heart against damage. I will keep my rifle clean and ready. We will become part of each other. We will...

Before God, I swear this creed. My rifle and myself are the defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. We are the saviors of my life.

So be it, until there is no enemy, but peace!

Barndog
06-29-02, 07:28 AM
Marines:
Don't pull out the cammies or that M-16 just yet.... Since this Marine was a child and learned to understand the Constitution, I always thought the phrase 'one nation under God' - was a violation of the Seperation of Church and State Clause. I carry a pocket Constitution in my vehicle daily, and use it whenever called to. We Marines do one thing better than any other branch of the Armed Forces - we THINK for OURSELVES. The best layed missions got you one thing - a trip home in a 1 way zippered bag.
Let the idiots do their thing (ie:politicians).

Let the Marines take care of what we've taken care of since before this country was even in existence.
Now, let me eat my rusty barbed wire and drink my napalmed coffee before I get upset......

The Sergeant Major sez SEMPER FI

arzach
06-29-02, 08:00 AM
great post drifter--- needed that this A.M.:D arzach

USMC0311
06-29-02, 08:03 AM
By God, I think U got yer point across Barn Dog.
Semper Fi, Marine

Bloodstripe
06-29-02, 08:41 AM
Grunt
I am not that much older then you. I just can’t stand this P.C. bulls@#t . Like I said it seems like no one wants to be held accountable for his or her actions. My parents had me walk a chalk line, and trust me my children do the same.
And if you have worked very hard for where you are today ...outstanding. Where I have a problem is when people start to blame other for there problems. And about this idiot in California that does not want GOD stated in the pledge, well in a way your right when you stated.."The same country that has freedom of religion and the freedom from persecution of not wanting to pledge your allegiance to a specific god" Exactly what I am trying to say. I don’t think no one is holding a gun to his head forcing him to say GOD. He seems to think this is forced on him, and that’s wrong. But is it all right for him to get it throw out and forcing his belief on millions of AMERICANS?

In GOD we trust
Semper Fi

USMC0311
06-29-02, 10:06 AM
I was Raised Catholic Bloodstripe...for 8years..I went to a Catholic School. I got no problem with God in any way!!! God, Country,and Corps, Marine !! I think EVERYONE should have enough sence to realize we ALL have FREEDOM of Religion..
I have Faith in ALL that The Corps has instilled in me And God is one of them !

Semper Fi, Marine!

Grunt
06-29-02, 10:41 PM
Talk about a can of worms! If there is any subject that can be more arguable and never winnable (are those words?) it would have to be politics!! This gentleman wanting to take God out of the pledge of allegiance isn’t necessarily throwing his belief on any one else, he just wants everyone to get a fair shake on their beliefs. By not pledging your allegiance to God does not make you un-patriotic by any means, not pledging the American flag does. This whole under god phrase was added by Eisenhower because of the fear of communism. Well, that fear is no longer a threat and it makes room for people that want their children to make their own decisions on who god is. This whole subject proves how loud their voices can be. Though you see it is no longer the main subject on your nightly news.

devilpup2B
06-30-02, 01:37 AM
I was always taught that Separation of Church and State meant that the government could not say that there is one national religion. The pledge does not do that, so how is it a violation of this? Just my 2 cents worth....

devilpup2B
06-30-02, 01:52 AM
Hmmmmm...just read back a bit and read the comments made about today's youth. Bloodstripe: You mention that when you were growing up, it was "Yes ma'am" and "No sir" or what have. Please keep in mind, not everybody has lost those manners. Not all of today's youth is lost. Just the ones you see on the news. Go to a school and you will most likely see student volunteers cleaning up around campus, maybe painting some fences for the school, cleaning the parking lots and hallways, etc. Go into the classrooms and see the American flags that fly in them. Then go home and turn on the news and hear about the kids that are bad, the kids in gangs that kill people or steal or what have you. How often on the news do you see good things about teens? Ever see the stories about those of us that volunteer in hospitals as candy stripers or just randomly go to hospital rooms and try to cheer up residents? How about those teens that, every weekend, dress as clowns and go into a children's oncology ward and try to make those kids laugh and smile for an hour. Or those of us that volunteer with police departments or animal shelters. Yes, there are kids today, teens today, that have no respect for authority or life or whatever. But there are a LOT of us out there that do have that respect. We say the pledge every day, salute the flag each time we pass one by, salute a police officer, fireman, or EMT when they drive past to let them know that they are doing a good job. Those of us that send out random e-mails to police officers or military personnel, just to say "Great job, keep up the good work." There are more of us out here than you think.

arzach
06-30-02, 09:30 AM
ok grunt, back up a tad. this calif. clown is tying the courts up with something that is real low on the priority list. that's B.S.! IF HE'S uncomfortable with his daughter saying the words, then simply tell her not to! there are bigger problems the courts have to deal with.
pup2b, thank GOD, not all your generation is like the ones we hear about all the time! a few always riun it for the rest, just like the 'Calif. Creep'
SEMPER FI Marines!

Havelka
06-30-02, 09:49 AM
The Chicago Tribune is a commie newspaper,they support all kinds
of anti-American crap.I can only not buy that rag paper

Bloodstripe
06-30-02, 10:13 AM
Well devilpup2B I stand corrected. I was pretty hot when I said "The youth of today". Maybe I should have said "Some" of the youth today. Hopefully there is a whole heck of alot more of those youth out there that you mentioned .
And Grunt I have to agree with what arzach said 100%. Trust me I am as stuburn as a mule and and as far as I'm concerned the idiot in cali can go to russia and be with a whole bunch of athiesits. And I will leave it at this...Who ever supports this idiot well go for it. I on the other hand can not and will not support any one on this matter that wants to make the pledge unconsitotional. And whats that saying..."In a foxhole there are no athiesits"

arzach
06-30-02, 10:20 AM
10-4 that Gunny! i'm stuck with the orlando sentinal, owned by 'tribune co.' same old syndicated B.S.
gotta keep up with the news though, i just stay aware of what the paper is 'about' and accept accordingly!

devilpup2B
06-30-02, 05:49 PM
I agree with you, Bloodstripe, about them leaving. Something was sent to me the other day about how this is our country and it gave a list of all these things that the United States has and does and if you don't like it, you don't have to live here. If I find it, I'll try to post it. :)

gwladgarwr
07-02-02, 12:32 AM
Originally posted by TeufelHunden ...Unless I feel compelled to reply otherwise :o
IMHO, one cannot be more hypocritical, than to have no problem whatsoever, earning and spending $$$ with the words 'In God We Trust' inscribed thereon. I say this without trepidation whatsoever, if I'm that guy's, the atheist prick's boss/supervisor, I'm firing his ass. If he's that firm in his atheist ways, I see no reason paying him...

I can see that those who claim to embrace one's faith with such fervor as demonstrated by TeufelHunden can justify the ostracization of those who believe differently from the tyranny of the prevailing orthodoxy with retribution in the form of firing, shunning, and the ever-popular ostentatious yet socially-acceptable practice of contempt.

Again, it is not only the mention of the word "God" in this Pledge, nor the implied message that the State is endorsing religion, but that both are embodied in a mandatory practice that is unconstitutional. Even if the Pledge is made "voluntary" for individual school children, the Pledge itself still implies that the Federal government has declared the United States an official "Christian" country. The Founding Fathers and the Constitution clearly state that the government is not to make any laws with respect to the establishment of [an official State] religion. An Executive Order issued by President Eisenhower made reciting the Pledge - with the implication in the Pledge that our country is subject to a deity endorsed by the Federal government - a mandatory act for all Americans. Regardless of what faith you practice or how much/little you believe, your government has just dictated to you in what you should believe and what you should say. You can't tell me that's American or that it's right. Additionally, please explain to me why this guy in California is an "atheist pr__ck"; he could just as easily turn around and call you a "religious bigot." (I'm not throwing an insult at you - I'm just assuming what he might say about your point of view.)

NamGrunt: No one can take away from you what you and all other Marines, soldiers, and sailors who have gone before me. I have taken on the challenge to defend my country and my Constitution just as you have and hope to live up to the standards set by all Marines, including the ones on the Wall.

However, I take high exception to your suggestion that anyone such as me hand in my Eagle, Globe, and Anchor because I, as a citizen and as someone who recognizes the role of the Constitution that I would fight for, agree with the 9th Court's ruling of the mandatory reciting of the Pledge unconstitutional. I take it as an insult that you would suggest that anyone who doesn't believe as you do equates to a "slap in the face" to all those who fought and died. As great the loss of all those men and as great their bravery, gallantry, and valor, it does NOT justify the imposition of your religion or any other religion upon me or any other citizen, or the establishment of an official religion. They did not fight and die to take away your freedom of religion or belief - they did so to preserve it.

Neither will I get out of MY Corps for your own intolerant benefit. You say that you would not share your foxhole with atheists or those who support the 9th Court's ruling, but I question your knowledge of the ideals and concepts that shape our Constitution that you swore to defend. Since my passion of my Constitution is as strong as your hatred for non-believers, I can say that I wouldn't mind having you in my foxhole in the same situation. Why, you may ask yourself? Because I would be fighting for YOU and what you are about as much as for anyone else back home. If I were no kind of Marine, I wouldn't give a second thought to turning my back on you.

Semper Fidelis,

LCpl Race (gwladgarwr)

http://www.time.com/time/columnist/morrow/article/0,9565,268289,00.html

arzach
07-02-02, 04:02 AM
been quiet here for a couple days,now, 2 days before our God-fearing nation's birthday, you gotta stir it up again!
only reason you'd share a foxhole with namgrunt is, you know he'd cover you-not sure he'd jump in a hole with you! don't think i would.
on another note, the word god does not imply a christian belief, only that there IS a supreme being! don't believe in one? well, 'sorry 'bout that'!

KaBar
07-02-02, 05:31 AM
Hey here's an idea to ponder over........How about we change it to.........

One nation, Under the 9th circuit court...


Instead of the way it is now??

NamGrunt68
07-02-02, 05:54 AM
Well, I guess I could go into one o my normal tirade's this mornin but my meds from the VA have already kicked in so I'll just reply with a couple things here.

Instead of wasting my energy disclaiming some of what you said in your post why don't you print them out and read mine compared to yours side by side.....SEE MARINE !!! YOU put words into my mouth......I don't think anywhere in my post did I say you should do this or do that because of what I believe in or don't believe in.....
So don't hide behind whatever bull**** agenda you got and try to **** on my friggin head and tell me its raining !!!

I don't have nothin against athiest....it's their Freedom of Religion to believe whatever they want to....I couldn't give a rat's ass who or what they worship.....

There ain't one Marine or Doggie Combat Vet that died or served in Vietnam that was layin in a fightin hole before he died thinking..." By God I'm proud to be here defending American Citizens right to worship who they want too".....But you can bet your ass alot of them died with a picture of the American Flag that they pledged allegiance too in their minds.....maybe not at the instant they were capped, but at some point and time.....

YOU DID slap my bro's in the face !!! ALL OF THEM !! You might can bullsh*t some o these other Politically Correct Marines around here with your elequent writings but you ain't gonna bullsh*t this one......

I thank God (yep I do believe in him) but he ain't got a damn thing to do with why I believe them dumb azzes in the Ninth district Court makin that dumb azz decision....which by the way, sayin the Pledge of Allegiance has ALWAYS FOREVER been voluntary to say in schools...even when I was a kid, we said it every morning, but if you didn't want to say it you didn't have too...As I was saying, I thank God that I served my Corps and My Country with Marines that were not POLITICALLY CORRECT !!! AND I SURE AM GLAD YOU SAID IT WAS YOUR CORPS !! Cause if the rest of the Marines in todays "New and Improved" Corps are as Politically Correct as you are, then I wouldn't want no part of it anymore !!!

As for sharing a fightin hole with ya because you don't believe what I believe, which I didn't say ....you did.....the reason I wouldn't share a fighten hole with ya is because I have a funny feeling that I'd have to be watchin the wire and my six and your six at the same time !!!

wrbones
07-02-02, 06:50 AM
A man can say anything he wants, I don't have to agree with him. A man can do anything he wants, I don't have to agree with his actions. A man can believe anything he wishes, I don't have to believe what he does. What irritates me, and I will often walk away from such, is the person who tries to force me to believe as he does. This is my disgust with the 9th courts decision. Many folks think the other guy must believe, do, and say and even think as he does. This is not freedom. It is tyranny. The couintry was founded by those whose belief in a supreme being is proven. It was founded with the idea that most of the citizens were judeo-christian believers. It was founded with the idea that all men were created equal before that supreme being, who is often identified as the God of the Bible. Freedom entails individual responsibility. Allow me to be responsible for my own words, my own deeds and please allow me my own sets of beliefs and thoughts. All true religions reveal these things as truths. Some Marines think to change my thinking. OK. You've stated your thoughts and beliefs. Allow me to be responsible enough to consider, and to accept or reject your arguments. I reject you, only if you persist in harrassing me. You then impinge upon my freedom. If I reject your position, please move on to the next potential disciple. GWL, I've rejected your position. Pehaps we could discuss something else. The cost of beans in Boston, perhaps, The price of beer in upstate New York? Whether Picketts charge was a purposeful mistake, or just a miscommunication? Our common ground is that we are free at this time. We should act as if we are, and allow the other gentleman his freedom , to come or to go, to live or to die, to go to church, or not. To work, or to be a bum. I will allow you your responsibility as you by God WILL allow me mine.

USMC0311
07-02-02, 06:58 AM
Good Mornin Grunt!!
Hey Bones..Good 2 C ya Up and at em
Semper Fi, Marines

NamGrunt68
07-02-02, 07:08 AM
Mornin back at cha ya ole 0311 night mud sniffin grunt !!!! Hey Bones, how comez you is so elequent with yer writings.....you should a been a speech writer fer ole George "Dubya" !!!!

gwladgarwr
07-02-02, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by arzach
been quiet here for a couple days,now, 2 days before our God-fearing nation's birthday, you gotta stir it up again!
only reason you'd share a foxhole with namgrunt is, you know he'd cover you-not sure he'd jump in a hole with you! don't think i would.
on another note, the word god does not imply a christian belief, only that there IS a supreme being! don't believe in one? well, 'sorry 'bout that'!

YOUR God-fearing nation? Are you from Saudi Arabia? Or Iran?

I would have replied sooner to "stir it up", but some of us actually have work to do over the weekend. Funny how when you pray aloud like that old Pharisee, it's called "religious" or "holy". When a non-believer speaks up, it's called "making trouble". If you don't like what you read, ignore it. You think because you don't like my point of view that I'm going to accomodate your narrow-mindedness? You are sadly mistaken.

Actually, one reason I'd share a foxhole with NamGrunt is for the one I've already stated. Since you look down your nose at anyone who doesn't kneel before your god, the only thing you see is down. Believe me: don't bother jumping into MY foxhole - your freedom is not worth fighting for, as you have made quite evident.

On another note: the word "God" DOES inded imply a Christian belief and imply that there is a Supreme Being. Who are you trying to fool? If there's anything to be sorry about, it's you. I feel sorry you have to pray to something to intervene on your behalf when you should be doing for yourself. By the way, I will re-iterate: if you want your government to tell you that there is a Supreme Being, try Vatican City. This is America - where you are free from such government (and private) intrusion. Have you forgotten where you are? Evidently so.

The one thing I'm sorry about is that this country has been hijacked by religious bigots (hmmm...hello, Osama?) which passes for patriotism. I intend not to let that happen. Tell you what: you move to the Vatican, or Saudi Arabia, and I'm sure they'd accomodate you to no end.

Semper Fidelis,

LCpl Race

Shaffer
07-02-02, 12:48 PM
We all have our personal beliefs and opinions and for the most part I try to respect them all. All of you have made some valid points, however the arguement over this topic has transformed into a personal matter. If you Marines want to continue your own personal grudge matches then do it via PM's or email. Not on this board.

I will not lock this thread as it is a good topic to discuss. I hope that you will change the direction that this thread is heading on your own.

Semper Fi,

Jerry

NamGrunt68
07-02-02, 02:00 PM
I'm done bro !! Ain't no use in havin to double my meds fer nuttin........I've said my piece and I think my position is clear.... I won't come back to this thread !!! Welcome Home Bro's and Semper Fidelis !!!!!!!!!!!!!

gwladgarwr
07-02-02, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by NamGrunt68

So don't hide behind whatever bull**** agenda you got and try to **** on my friggin head and tell me its raining !!!

YOU DID slap my bro's in the face !!! ALL OF THEM !! You might can bullsh*t some o these other Politically Correct Marines around here with your elequent writings but you ain't gonna bullsh*t this one......As I was saying, I thank God that I served my Corps and My Country with Marines that were not POLITICALLY CORRECT !!! AND I SURE AM GLAD YOU SAID IT WAS YOUR CORPS !! Cause if the rest of the Marines in todays "New and Improved" Corps are as Politically Correct as you are, then I wouldn't want no part of it anymore !!! As for sharing a fightin hole with ya because you don't believe what I believe, which I didn't say ....you did.....the reason I wouldn't share a fighten hole with ya is because I have a funny feeling that I'd have to be watchin the wire and my six and your six at the same time !!!

Better take some more of your medication, NamGrunt. You're starting to froth at the mouth.

I have no need to hide behind BS. I told you outright. Perhaps if you avoid seeing only what you only want to see, you may not be so blind.

Funny how you and the religious right call anything that real defenders of our Constitution say or do is "P.C." Since I do my best to live up to the ideals of my Bill of Rights and the other 17 Amendments and articles, for the benefit of all as well as protecting myself, then color me P.C. as all get out. Call me a bleedin'-heart, higher-taxes-gun-control Liberal and I'll dance a jig!;)

Why would I try to BS you? No one is slapping no one's face - I believe the Pledge is unconstitutional and I agree with the Court's decision. You freakin' tell me how that is a slap in the face. You would force state-endorsed religion on me yet in the same breath swear you defend freedom and liberty. I have never seen such hyprocrisy and BS in my life. THAT is BS and that is a lie. You fight only for your own narrow world and deny others their due. You only see what you want to see and want everyone else to follow your lead. That'll be the day.

So, tell you what: you can stay out of MY new-and-improved Marine Corps and stay out of MY foxhole. I still have my 20/20 - I don't have time to care for the mentally infirm or self-righteous bigots. Besides, don't flatter yourself: you ain't all that and the proverbial bag of chips. Your hyper-developed sense of self-importance is truly amazing. Now I can see why the Puritans turned nasty on their own in Salem, or why McCarthy (yes, he was a Marine, too) conducted his witch hunts.

LCpl Race (gwladgarwr)

USMC0311
07-02-02, 03:13 PM
WE Got the PM thing Bros...and ain't but a thing....we all Semper Fi..LOL Friggin Marines..never let'em C Ya !!!!
B Good Have Fun..We All Proud Of Us :)

NamGrunt68
07-02-02, 03:29 PM
No need for no PM 0311.....tired o beatin a dead horse.....I'll keep my word to Shaffer....

gwladgarwr
07-02-02, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by Shaffer
We all have our personal beliefs and opinions and for the most part I try to respect them all. All of you have made some valid points, however the arguement over this topic has transformed into a personal matter. If you Marines want to continue your own personal grudge matches then do it via PM's or email. Not on this board.

I will not lock this thread as it is a good topic to discuss. I hope that you will change the direction that this thread is heading on your own.

Semper Fi,

Jerry

Point taken, Schaffer. I don't want to make any of this personal, and it does seem to have gone that direction.

Hopefully, what ties us all together is that we are all Marines and with that in mind, we live and die for each other. I don't ever forget that. We fight to protect our Flag, and that is even more important than any Pledge. Those who have gone before and gave all have already pledged allegiance to our Flag to the hilt by doing, not talking. Those who have taken on the mantel of Marine now have the responsibility to never let our history and deeds be forgotten.

Semper Fidelis, Marines.

LCpl Race (gwladgarwr)

Gary
07-02-02, 03:36 PM
Stick my nose in this, but here I go, I agree with you USMC0311 this thread has gone to far, this is starting to look like a thread from Military.com and personally I don't want to see that kind of cr@p on this site, we're all Marines here how about we starting acting like it. Nuff said, take your personal attacks on each other to PM please.

gwladgarwr
07-02-02, 03:42 PM
You've said everything that is relevant in several short sentences! Good shot!

And above all that, we are still Marines who look out for our own. I couldn't have said it better. Maybe it's time to move on to the weather or something simple, like the 2000 Elections in Florida. :p Semper Fidelis, Marines.

LCpl Race (gwladgarwr)

thedrifter
07-02-02, 03:42 PM
We will not tolerate Disrespect to other Marines in this Forum.
You do not know what He has done or where He has been.
You have not walked in his shoes.

"SHOW RESPECT TO OTHER MARINES"

Sempers,

Roger

PS: You have a disagreement with another Marine, take it to e-mail and/or PM

SGT T
07-02-02, 04:08 PM
I AM DISGUSTED THAT RACE WOULD TALK TO ANOTHER MARINE THE WAY HE DID..AND SAY THE THINGS HE SAID..SAME GOES FOR NAMGRUNT...ABOVE ALL BELIEFS AND POLITICAL B.S. WE ARE MARINES AND WE ARE BROTHERS. I DONT GIVE A **** IF THE MARINE NEXT TO ME BELIEVES IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE..THE ONLY THING I GIVE A **** ABOUT IS IF HE IS GOING TO COVER MY SIX OR NOT. I PERSONALLY THINK THE TOPIC SHOULD BE DROPPED AND LEFT TO FREAKS IN WASHINTONG TO DEAL SINCE WE AS MARINES HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE FREEDOM OF OR COUNTRY......


SEMPER FI

Gary
07-02-02, 04:16 PM
I couldn't agree with you more, take a bow Marine. :)

TeufelHunden
07-02-02, 05:35 PM
...This has certainly turned into a volatile subject. I hope we've all cooled off now. It is what it is. I may not agree with the decision of the court, may not understand how any brother/sister Marine can possibly agree with the court. But at the end of the day, we're all still brother/sister Marines. Hopefully, as we go forward wrt this topic, it'll be to the issues as opposed to comparing dick size.

arzach
07-02-02, 05:40 PM
last one fellas- race, stay away from my foxhole! i can't believe you made it thru 'boot' without your D.I. 'takin' you down'! thank GOD you are not an example of the Marine of today! i know, cause both of my nephews just finished their hitch.
myself, and all my bros , before, and after me fought for the rights and freedoms we all enjoy. you have that freedom now, you want to run off at the mouth with your 'drivel' go ahead--personally i don't have a use for it!
Semper Fi Bros!

Barndog
07-02-02, 05:49 PM
Marines:
Well, for one thing I am damm glad to see that My Marine Corps is Still Fired Up. SOUND OFF- OHHHHH RAHHHHH!
Common sense - integrity, discipline, dedication - these are intangibles that you do NOT get issued. You EARN them. The same AS : opinion, education, respect and love for your brothers and sisters, be they Marrnes or not. They are earned. They are not given.
Use that brain housing group for something other than a place for your cover. Allow your fellow man to speak his mind. If you don't agree, the DON'T AGREE. Don't take your brothers and sisters down with you along the way. Allow them to find the err in their way.

Rememer first and foremost: WE were Marines BEFORE this was a country. If I had my way my - flagpole would read like this : Marine Corps, Michigan, USA. End of Story.

SEMPER FI

TeufelHunden
07-02-02, 05:52 PM
Where each of us stand on the Pledge of Allegiance issue, what say you all to this...

"In God We Trust" is our national motto. (36 United States Code, Section 86) "In God We Trust" has been on our coins since 1863. (even before it was our national motto) (31 United States Code, Section 5112 [D] [1]

* Our Pledge of Allegiance cites "one nation under God."

* Both state legislatures and United States Congress employ paid chaplains to pray at the opening of all sessions.

* All military branches of the United States government have paid chaplains.

* The inscription on the Liberty Bell cites Leviticus 25:10

* A portrait of Moses with the Ten Commandments hangs above the Speaker's chair in the United States Congress. (But this is illegal in our public schools and municipal government buildings). It is shameful that the very institution which governs us and makes the laws are able to display the Ten Commandments but the citizens cannot. Does this form of government sound
familiar?

* The Library of Congress (another government institution) has statues of the apostle Paul and Moses, and it has large inscriptions of Micah 6:8 and Psalm 19:1 prominently displayed. (Try pulling that off at the next high school football game.)

* The Lincoln Memorial has chiseled on it, "Judgments of the Lord are righteous." (Government Property)

* The Tomb of the Unknown Soldier is dedicated to a
soldier "Known but to God."

* There is a prayer room in Congress. (Go tell your local school board you want the same thing that "our" Government has....a prayer room. Better yet ask the ACLU if they will either allow prayer rooms in our schools or fight to have the one our Government has to be removed...just for grins, of course.

This has got to be the best one yet...
* The very branch of our U.S. Government which ruled against prayers at a high school football game opens the Supreme Court Session with the words, "God save the United States and this honorable court." They do this publicly, not privately.

* The United States Constitution refers to Jesus, stating the Constitution was signed in 1787 "in the year of our Lord." (Could the U.S. Government explain which Lord they are referring to on this sacred document, if not Jesus?)

* The United States Government has mandated "National Day of Prayer." (36 United States Code, Section 169 [H]. (Think about that....the very government that has ruled against public prayer at schools because of the misguided "Separation of Church and State" doctrine has mandated a "National Day of Prayer." by US Government Law!! )

* Christmas is a United States Government Holiday.

* Separation of Church and State. Maybe it is the US citizens that are believers who have been separated from the State. Has that ever happened in recent world history? Think about it.

*The Star Spangled Banner, 4th Stanza includes : "Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us as a nation." and "and this be our motto: " In God is our trust." Will we be prevented from singing the Anthem at Ball Games by Politically Correct Liberal Mental Midget Judges - (even though we never get to the 4th stanza)?

God Bless America!

SGT T
07-02-02, 06:00 PM
TEUFELHUNDEN YOU HAVE MY VOTE FOR PRESIDENT BROTHER

TeufelHunden
07-02-02, 06:44 PM
...But I'm afraid the P.C. politicos in the House & Senate would make sure I was impeached ASAP, after I started running the Country like Marine Corps bootcamp! :D

Nothing like absolute, blind obedience to orders - damn I miss the Corps

wrbones
07-02-02, 07:23 PM
This is just me being me, brother! LOL. Geo. Dubya Doesn't have a vocabulary, Wouldn't matter what ya wrote! He'd find a way to mess with it! LOL;)

NamGrunt68
07-02-02, 07:35 PM
I know I promised Shaffer I wouldn't mess with this thread anymore, but I couldn't not reply to a stand up Bro like yerself....
Hell, Ole Dubya couldn't hold a candle to you !!! Course then again you ain't no politician !!!! Thanks for the reply Marine !!

Gerard
07-03-02, 12:54 AM
We seem to be reading a lot about the founding fathers' unanimous intention of creating a national state which was to be free of any religious influence or sponsorship. Some of us would do well to dig a little deeper into the history books, to find out just what this idea meant to them. My home state actually paid a government subsidy to the Congregationalist Church for almost 100 years after it sent 2 devoutly christian representatives to the Second Continental Congress to proclaim that "all men are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights" The subsidy was discontinued because of budget cuts in the time before the impending civil war, not because people thought that the legislature ought not to be involved in religious matters. For over 300 years, the state gave the Congregationalist Church an official place of honor; ironically the legislature (not the courts) ended that sponsorship in the 1950's, when "under God" was added to the Pledge. Until well into the 20th century, the governor was required by the state constitution to be a Protestant Christian (this was done by constitutional amendment, again, not by court order). Where is this intolerant place? My home state is New Hampshire, literally about as far from a bible-thumping southern state as you can get. So does that make it an un-American state? Perhaps, but it was the only state who saw no revolutionary fighting, because everyone was on the side of the freedom fighters. It was also the state whose ratification of the federal Constitution made it legal. The founding fathers may have agreed on the wisdom of pooling the resources of the colonies, but they definitely did not agree on how to keep church and state out of one another's business. Indeed, I doubt anyone thinks that the average born and bred Virginian of today would side with Thomas Jefferson's views about keepeing church and state entirely separate. It is even less likely that the New Hampshire legislature would consider putting clergy back on the state payroll. I have always thought it ironic that Jefferson, who is credited with pioneering the idea of totally separating church and state, had no qualms about putting his signature to a declaration of independence and a Constitution dated explicitly by the birth of Jesus--a person in whom he was not always sure he believed. Maybe he was hedging his bet since he was committing treason by signing. The moral? Don't be too hasty to quote the founding fathers. They were definitlely not all in the same boat on this issue--not even Jefferson. Putting ideas into the mouths of people who did not come up with them does tend to give them a deceptive air of credability, but it doesn't mean they thought them. Such complete separation of church and state which by its logic makes even the constitution, with its explicit references to God and to religion, unconstitutional is a modern concept. Accept it for what it is. And don't take it so seriously, even Jefferson didn't.

Gary
07-03-02, 09:03 AM
and I hope that those who seem to have a problem with each other will remember these words.


BAND OF BROTHERS

1. ALL MARINES ARE ENTITLED TO DIGNITY AND RESPECT AS INDIVIDUALS, BUT MUST ABIDE BY COMMON STANDARDS BY PROPER AUTHORITY.

2. A MARINE SHOULD NEVER LIE, CHEAT, OR STEAL FROM A FELLOW MARINE OR FAIL TO COME TO HIS AID IN TIME OF NEED.

3. ALL mARINES SHOULD CONTRIBUTE 100% OF THEIR ABILITIES TO THE UNITS MISSION. ANY LESS EFFORT BY AN INDIVIDUAL PASSES THE BUCK TO SOMEONE ELSE.

4. A UNIT, REGARDLESS OF SIZE, IS A DISCIPLINED FAMILY STRUCTURE, WITH SIMILAR RELATIONSHIPS BASED ON MUTUAL RESPECT AMONG MEMBERS.

5. IT IS ESSENTIAL THAT ISSUES AND PROBLEMS WHICH TEND TO LESSEN A UNITS EFFECTIVENESS BE ADDRESSED AND RESOLVED.

6. A BLENDING OF SEPARATE CULTURES, VARYING EDUCATIONAL LEVELS, AND DIFFERENT SOCIAL BACKGROUNDS IS POSSIBLE IN A UNSELFISH ATMOSPHERE OF COMMON GOALS. ASPIRATIONS, AND MUTUAL UNDERSTANDING.

7. BEING THE BEST REQUIRES COMMON EFFORT, HARD WORK, AND TEAMWORK. NOTHING WORTHWHILE COMES EASY.

8. EVERY MARINE DESERVES JOB SATISFACTION, EQUAL CONSIDERATION AND RECOGNITION OF HIS ACCOMPLISHMENTS.

9. KNOWING YOUR FELLOW MARINE WELL ENABLES YOU TO LEARN TO LOOK AT THINGS THROUGH HIS EYES, AS WELL AS YOUR OWN.

10. ISSUES DETRACTING FROM THE EFFICENCY AND SENCE OF WELLBEING OF AN INDIVIDUAL SHOULD BE SURFACED AND WEIGHED AGAINST THE IMPACT ON THE UNIT AS A WHOLE.

11. IT MUST BE RECOGNOZED THAT A BROTHERHOOD CONCEPT DEPENDS ON ALL MEMBERS BELONGING- - BEING FULLY ACCEPTED BY OTHERS WITHIN.

Semper Fidelis Marines

if any of you would like a copy of the Band of Brothers Creed send me a PM with you home addy and I will send you one.

Midnight
07-03-02, 11:14 AM
n I see a lot has already been said about this tender topic. Ultimately this is gonna be decided in the Supreme Court, where they most likely will say the the phrase "under God" is pretty damned abstract, cause GOD means the supreme creator, not jesus,vishnu, allah ,jehovah etc. etc. And it's pretty well accepted that somehow all this around us was created somehow, well then we all just sitting under some kinda big blanket n you can call it what you want, n it don't mean sqaut.

As with most things this comes down to opinions n opinions are like azzholes, we all got one but I think your's stinks. LIVE WITH IT! You doan have to like it but jesus jumping on 1 fcukin foot doan't tell me we all gotta hold hands n sing kumbya cuz we're all Marines. There's just toooo much ****in PC bull****. Before I wrote this I read Gary's band of brothers creed, here's an example of what toooo much gov't sensitivity training will do to you. I f you haven't learned what your responsibilities are towards your brother Marines are by the time you leave boot and ITR then by the time those bees start buzzing round yer head in that first firefight then you're not gonna do your job. N thats what it comes down to, we don't have to like one another, but when the **** starts flying we both better be doin our job. "I got yer six" isn't something to be taken lightly and that is essential to survival, your's and your brothers. That doesn't come outta a touchy feel good sensitivity session.
Semper Fidelis Marines!

NamGrunt68
07-03-02, 03:33 PM
Bro, I gonna have to post here again even though I said I wouldn't....couldn't pass up tellin another Nam Bro Semper Fi, especially one that really does know the true meaning of watchin a bro's six......You still smell of Mud, Blood, and Green........and I think I detect the slight stinch of ham & mofo's on yer breath !!!!
I'll give ya a day until ya blow a gasket !!!!!

gwladgarwr
07-03-02, 03:45 PM
You make a very good point regarding the ambivalence on the part of the Founding Fathers (Jefferson included) with regard to separation of church and state. Since it was not always strictly observed, including in the wording of the Constitution and in many other laws since then, lawmakers and citizens alike found it difficult to delineate the two.

The language of the day most often included references to "our Lord in Heaven", "our God on high", etc. Everyone, at least in an official setting, spoke in that high and lofty style with obvious religious references. Even in those days, state and religion were pretty much one and the same, and the separation of the two was a relatively weird and new concept.

Though the Founding Fathers and subsequent state and Federal legislatures all both succeeded and failed in various degrees to separate church and state AND to bring the two closer together, depending on the prevailing political/religious mood of the moment, they were also very wary of any outright declaration of an officially-sanctioned state religion. They and their later peers, of course, could not totally divorce their humanity, their beliefs, etc., from their work - they are, after all, human - their biases frequently inserted themselves into legislation, custom, precendence, and the law itself, despite the written assurance they all backed when the Constitution was written. This, in my opinion, happens much more today than it ever did back then.

This does not mean, however, that we are to simply "take it with a grain of salt" (a pagan ritual from the Etruscans, btw) and "get over it" (a modern-day New Age expression inspired by little Regan in The Exorcist and accompanied by sarcastic eye-rolling). There are numerous laws and U.S codes on the book "respecting an establishment of religion, or the prohibiting the free exercise thereof" - a clear violation of the 3rd Amendment - yet they are considered widely "acceptable" because of the preponderance of those of the Christian faith in this country. That said, it still doesn't make it "right" if these laws and traditions remain on the books simply because the bias on the part of followers of the Judeo-Christian tradition leads to justification of preserving them. "Majority Rules" is not always right, nor constitutional. "Separate but Equal" and literacy laws impeding the free exercise of the 13th-15th Amendments were widely "popular", but does not make them constitutional.

Just to what extent the Founding Fathers intended this church/state separation and what we consider constitutionally acceptable now are two very different things. The Constitution is a living document, subject to change and differing interpretation as intended by the Founding Fathers. So, if it can determined that the government, by virtue of establishing laws that even remotely hint at government endorsement of a particular faith at the expense of the 3rd Amendment, these laws cannot and should not remain, regardless of how "popular" the religion is. The government is not in the business of promulating faith in general and must not be party to involving itself in the establishment of religion. In the same vein, the government cannot prohibit the free practice thereof; removal of such laws with respect to "God", "In God We Trust", etc., does not impede the free practice thereof in any sense - the removal would demonstrate that respect of individual belief is respected and that one individual's faith, or lack thereof, is not protected at the expense of another's.

LCpl Race (gwladgarwr)

gwladgarwr
07-03-02, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by TeufelHunden
Where each of us stand on the Pledge of Allegiance issue, what say you all to this...

"In God We Trust" is our national motto. (36 United States Code, Section 86) "In God We Trust" has been on our coins since 1863. (even before it was our national motto) (31 United States Code, Section 5112 [D] [1]

* Our Pledge of Allegiance cites "one nation under God."

* The inscription on the Liberty Bell cites Leviticus 25:10

* The Lincoln Memorial has chiseled on it, "Judgments of the Lord are righteous." (Government Property)

* The Tomb of the Unknown Soldier is dedicated to a
soldier "Known but to God."

This has got to be the best one yet...
* The very branch of our U.S. Government which ruled against prayers at a high school football game opens the Supreme Court Session with the words, "God save the United States and this honorable court." They do this publicly, not privately.

* Separation of Church and State. Maybe it is the US citizens that are believers who have been separated from the State. Has that ever happened in recent world history? Think about it.

God Bless America!

Very good research, TeufelHunden. Can I add to your list?

The official National Anthem as ratified by Congress in March, 1931 is comprised only of the first verse of Francis Scott Key's poem. The other three didn't make it in to final version. It had nothing to do with the whole God-thing - they just only wanted one verse and not all four.

Did you know the status atop the Capitol Bldg is none other than the Greek goddess Athena? How interesting...

The primary offical national motto is "E pluribus, unum". "In God We Trust" is secondary, but still viewed as equal.

All I can say regarding religiously-inspired things owned or maintained by the Federal government, such as the Lincoln (paid for by private funds but maintained by the Federal government), the Tomb of the Unknown, Statuary Hall (which includes statues of Christian-era figures as well as "pagans"), and prayer rooms in Congress and Congressional/Supreme Court prayers is that politicians in general are just being the hypocrites they often are. The Supreme Court and Congress are just as "government-owned" as high school football games.

Just as much as the Federal government is not to make laws with respecting the establishment of religion, it is also banned from prohibiting the free practice of religion. So, a student-led prayer at a football game is, in my opinion, not unconstitutional, because, just because you paid your ticket at the gate at a school district-sanctioned event does not mean you have checked your constitutional rights at the gate. If that prayer were led by the principal, the "government" representative, however, it would be unconstitutional because it lends government imprimatur to the prayer (i.e., state-endorsed).

Official mottos and executive orders could be unconstitutional because the Federal government itself, the very agent prohibited from enacting laws which implicitly or explicitly declare a "state religion", is doing so with the assumption of "divine right". ("In God We Trust" is very likely unconstitutional; a National Day of Prayer may not be because it reconfirms the 3rd Amendment.) The Pledge of Allegiance is unconstitutional, for the time being, because of the whole government endorsement of religion-based rule. But, it can be said that the Federal government is enforcing the tenets of the 3rd Amendment by publicly recommitting itself to the freedom of religion. It's a fine line they are walking, and sometimes the Federal government, as well as state and local, fall over. Besides, prayers at the start of each Supreme Court session is done out of tradition and is not mandatory. The prayer is simply done for the benefit of the Court but as a non-government endorsed act. The justices can all claim to offer this prayer as citizens who can safely practice their faith(s) in public or in private.

Perhaps a re-examination of all this at the Federal level is in order. Prayers in the schools and in Congress and Court may be all right, constitutionally speaking. After all, the Federal government cannot prohibit practice of religion. If there weren't any paid chaplains in Congress, Supreme Court, and especially, in the Armed Forces, how would our servicemembers be able to effectively practice their respective faiths? This isn't government establishment of religion - it is actually assisting and enforcing the 3rd Amendment for those citizens who otherwise would not be able to practice their faith(s).

I'm going to practice my 1st Amendment rights tomorrow and all the other rights with the self-reminder that those rights and freedoms didn't simply fall in my lap - a lot of somebodys died to ensure I would be born free and many serve now, including me, to make sure our future generations continue to savor them.

Happy Independence Day, Marines. Semper Fidelis.

LCpl Race (gwladgarwr)

NamNuts
07-04-02, 08:17 AM
Originally posted by LadyLeatherneck
I think I'll write the PLEDGE on my car back windshield just to ****
off some Cali Liberals...he he he!!

GOD, COUNTRY, CORPS!!


Chit...i'm havin my ole Gunny Bro tattooozzz the "Pledge" to my backside...then every heteromorphic Liberal, i see gets the..Assh and Pledge stuck in "its" face!

Liberals can all go; "Eat **** and Die...NOW"!

Damn i see i'm gonna be spending xtra time downloadin them sins Sunday...hehehe!

NamNuts
07-04-02, 08:24 AM
Originally posted by NamGrunt68
Bro, I gonna have to post here again even though I said I wouldn't....couldn't pass up tellin another Nam Bro Semper Fi, especially one that really does know the true meaning of watchin a bro's six......You still smell of Mud, Blood, and Green........and I think I detect the slight stinch of ham & mofo's on yer breath !!!!
I'll give ya a day until ya blow a gasket !!!!!


Dane...Lets start ah pool! I'll take 0903hrs CST 4 July 02

NamGrunt68
07-04-02, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by NamNuts



Dane...Lets start ah pool! I'll take 0903hrs CST 4 July 02

Ya gots about 25 minutes ....I'll run down and get sum STP fer ya !!!! LMMFAO

Ding Dong
07-08-02, 02:49 AM
Hey L/Cpl numbnutz ... I've read enough of your bull$hit to make me sick. I remember a little d!ckhead L/Cpl like you we had out in the Arizona in the early part of '70. How he ever made it through Boot Camp without his Drill Instructors choking the sh!t out of him is beyond me. He was just like you ... running off at the cakehole about every dammed thing. Wastn't worth a sh!t in the bush. Stood up to run in a firefight one day and took a round in the back. Cried like a little girl.

Saying "God" in the Pledge ain't got a frigging thing to do with religion. There's even a trucking company named "GOD." You're a long winded baztard but you don't know your a$$ from a hole in the ground. You gotta be a pogue. I'm sure glad there ain't no possibility of me ever having to share a fighting hole with you. "Race" up on top of that rock you live under and kiss my a$$ you degenerate little ba$tard.

NamGrunt68
07-08-02, 05:18 AM
Originally posted by Ding Dong
Hey L/Cpl numbnutz ... I've read enough of your bull$hit to make me sick. I remember a little d!ckhead L/Cpl like you we had out in the Arizona in the early part of '70. How he ever made it through Boot Camp without his Drill Instructors choking the sh!t out of him is beyond me. He was just like you ... running off at the cakehole about every dammed thing. Wastn't worth a sh!t in the bush. Stood up to run in a firefight one day and took a round in the back. Cried like a little girl.

Saying "God" in the Pledge ain't got a frigging thing to do with religion. There's even a trucking company named "GOD." You're a long winded baztard but you don't know your a$$ from a hole in the ground. You gotta be a pogue. I'm sure glad there ain't no possibility of me ever having to share a fighting hole with you. "Race" up on top of that rock you live under and kiss my a$$ you degenerate little ba$tard.

My Gawd Mr. Ding Dong, I swear it ****es me off to no end dat I spendz my time tryin to say in about 3 or 4 posts what it only took you one post to say to Mr. Weekend Warrior !!! You must of graduated cum lauda at the top o yer class at the University of Vietnam !!!! Good on you bro !!! WELCOME THE PHUC HOME AND SEMPER FIDELIS !!!

Barndog
07-08-02, 07:31 AM
I've piped in on this subject before, but in reading this morning, I happened on some thing(s) that rang the bell.

"The recent ruling by a federal appeals court in San Francisco to ban the recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance in schools -- claiming the phrase ''one nation under God'' violates separation of church and state -- wasn't nearly as interesting as the public's reaction to it.

Within seconds, politicians of both stripes were falling all over one another to prove how devout they were by decrying the ruling and to use it as a way to make political hay against opponents. Ordinary citizens responded in white-lipped outrage, as if the judges had ruled that all schoolchildren henceforth must paint themselves blue and sacrifice virgins on the playground during lunch.

People acted as though the very pursuit of religious life in America was under siege -- an absurd notion, given there are churches on every corner in this country, our current highest-elected official publicly proclaims he is ''saved'' and politicians of both camps increasingly use the subject of faith to garner votes.

The irony is that public outrage over the ruling -- which has already been put on hold by the judge who wrote the majority opinion and is almost certain to be reversed -- comes at a time when we are at war with extremists who -- ostensibly -- want to turn the whole world into one big theocracy, who will kill for the ultimate goal of no dividing line between church and state.

The thing is -- and I write this as a person of faith -- that having children daily repeat ''one nation under God'' is no more a solution to the ills that plague this country or world than is posting a copy of the Ten Commandments in every classroom, another simplistic cure that is often promoted. Children grow into decent, law-abiding, compassionate human beings if they are raised with love, respect and discipline, not because they recite a rote reference to God every morning. And the bedrock principles of this country -- justice, fairness, dignity -- don't depend on third-graders making references to monotheism.

My grandfather used to say, ''The Devil likes to get dressed up and go to church on Sunday.'' Embedded in that old saying is a cautionary tale about the dangers inherent in public piety, in the easy oaths and proclamations that too often masquerade as true faith, true charity.

In San Antonio alone last year, 21,000 people were homeless, half of them families with children. Corporate mandarins at places such as WorldCom and Enron steal millions (even with ''In God We Trust'' emblazoned on our dollar bills!) in a country where wealth is increasingly becoming concentrated in the hands of the few."

For me it's still pretty simple - WE are Marines. The idiots who try to make public policy and determine what I should or shouldn't think, don't walk in my shoes.
I think for myself, I take zero s*@t from anyone - but when it comes to my Marine Corps, I Think for each and every one of us past, present and future

Semper FI

Barndog

Midnight
07-08-02, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by NamGrunt68
Bro, I gonna have to post here again even though I said I wouldn't....couldn't pass up tellin another Nam Bro Semper Fi, especially one that really does know the true meaning of watchin a bro's six......You still smell of Mud, Blood, and Green........and I think I detect the slight stinch of ham & mofo's on yer breath !!!!
I'll give ya a day until ya blow a gasket !!!!!
Fcukin A Bro!!! I spect we ate soma the same dirt. That sheeit is ground in purty deep ansd is gonna last a lifetime. Yep n them ham n mammys come up ever time I have a nip o squeezins, gots to watch for open flames. Be like burnin a sheeitter.
Semper Fi Marine

Midnight
07-08-02, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by gwladgarwr


Very good research, TeufelHunden. Can I add to your list?

The official National Anthem as ratified by Congress in March, 1931 is comprised only of the first verse of Francis Scott Key's poem. The other three didn't make it in to final version. It had nothing to do with the whole God-thing - they just only wanted one verse and not all four.

Did you know the status atop the Capitol Bldg is none other than the Greek goddess Athena? How interesting...

The primary offical national motto is "E pluribus, unum". "In God We Trust" is secondary, but still viewed as equal.

All I can say regarding religiously-inspired things owned or maintained by the Federal government, such as the Lincoln (paid for by private funds but maintained by the Federal government), the Tomb of the Unknown, Statuary Hall (which includes statues of Christian-era figures as well as "pagans"), and prayer rooms in Congress and Congressional/Supreme Court prayers is that politicians in general are just being the hypocrites they often are. The Supreme Court and Congress are just as "government-owned" as high school football games.

Just as much as the Federal government is not to make laws with respecting the establishment of religion, it is also banned from prohibiting the free practice of religion. So, a student-led prayer at a football game is, in my opinion, not unconstitutional, because, just because you paid your ticket at the gate at a school district-sanctioned event does not mean you have checked your constitutional rights at the gate. If that prayer were led by the principal, the "government" representative, however, it would be unconstitutional because it lends government imprimatur to the prayer (i.e., state-endorsed).

Official mottos and executive orders could be unconstitutional because the Federal government itself, the very agent prohibited from enacting laws which implicitly or explicitly declare a "state religion", is doing so with the assumption of "divine right". ("In God We Trust" is very likely unconstitutional; a National Day of Prayer may not be because it reconfirms the 3rd Amendment.) The Pledge of Allegiance is unconstitutional, for the time being, because of the whole government endorsement of religion-based rule. But, it can be said that the Federal government is enforcing the tenets of the 3rd Amendment by publicly recommitting itself to the freedom of religion. It's a fine line they are walking, and sometimes the Federal government, as well as state and local, fall over. Besides, prayers at the start of each Supreme Court session is done out of tradition and is not mandatory. The prayer is simply done for the benefit of the Court but as a non-government endorsed act. The justices can all claim to offer this prayer as citizens who can safely practice their faith(s) in public or in private.

Perhaps a re-examination of all this at the Federal level is in order. Prayers in the schools and in Congress and Court may be all right, constitutionally speaking. After all, the Federal government cannot prohibit practice of religion. If there weren't any paid chaplains in Congress, Supreme Court, and especially, in the Armed Forces, how would our servicemembers be able to effectively practice their respective faiths? This isn't government establishment of religion - it is actually assisting and enforcing the 3rd Amendment for those citizens who otherwise would not be able to practice their faith(s).

I'm going to practice my 1st Amendment rights tomorrow and all the other rights with the self-reminder that those rights and freedoms didn't simply fall in my lap - a lot of somebodys died to ensure I would be born free and many serve now, including me, to make sure our future generations continue to savor them.

Happy Independence Day, Marines. Semper Fidelis.

LCpl Race (gwladgarwr)

LCpl Race (gwladgarwr) you are certainly one long winded muthafcukah. No doubt you are impressing the living sheeit outta some of the cherry's here. But probably not as much as yo're impressing yourself. Do you write this in front of a mirror whilst spanking one's monkey? No doubt you envision yourself as the warrior poet sagely casting out pearls of wisdom, truth of the matter is you're just one more pompass ass sheeithouse lawyer running his lip.

Midnight
07-08-02, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by Ding Dong
Hey L/Cpl numbnutz ... I've read enough of your bull$hit to make me sick. I remember a little d!ckhead L/Cpl like you we had out in the Arizona in the early part of '70. How he ever made it through Boot Camp without his Drill Instructors choking the sh!t out of him is beyond me. He was just like you ... running off at the cakehole about every dammed thing. Wastn't worth a sh!t in the bush. Stood up to run in a firefight one day and took a round in the back. Cried like a little girl.

Saying "God" in the Pledge ain't got a frigging thing to do with religion. There's even a trucking company named "GOD." You're a long winded baztard but you don't know your a$$ from a hole in the ground. You gotta be a pogue. I'm sure glad there ain't no possibility of me ever having to share a fighting hole with you. "Race" up on top of that rock you live under and kiss my a$$ you degenerate little ba$tard.
Hola Senor Ding Dong
eso es verdad, this lil puke could gag a busload of maggots.
Semper Fi Marine

Midnight
07-08-02, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by NamGrunt68


My Gawd Mr. Ding Dong, I swear it ****es me off to no end dat I spendz my time tryin to say in about 3 or 4 posts what it only took you one post to say to Mr. Weekend Warrior !!! You must of graduated cum lauda at the top o yer class at the University of Vietnam !!!! Good on you bro !!! WELCOME THE PHUC HOME AND SEMPER FIDELIS !!!
Jaysus Grunt doan let that writters block get ya down. You need LCpl gwladgarwr's Verbal Diarehaha UnLocked Course.

BabyHuey
07-08-02, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by Ding Dong
Hey L/Cpl numbnutz ... I've read enough of your bull$hit to make me sick. I remember a little d!ckhead L/Cpl like you we had out in the Arizona in the early part of '70. How he ever made it through Boot Camp without his Drill Instructors choking the sh!t out of him is beyond me. He was just like you ... running off at the cakehole about every dammed thing. Wastn't worth a sh!t in the bush. Stood up to run in a firefight one day and took a round in the back. Cried like a little girl.

Saying "God" in the Pledge ain't got a frigging thing to do with religion. There's even a trucking company named "GOD." You're a long winded baztard but you don't know your a$$ from a hole in the ground. You gotta be a pogue. I'm sure glad there ain't no possibility of me ever having to share a fighting hole with you. "Race" up on top of that rock you live under and kiss my a$$ you degenerate little ba$tard.

DangDingDong ... you be gifted !!!

arzach
07-08-02, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by Ding Dong
Hey L/Cpl numbnutz ... I've read enough of your bull$hit to make me sick. I remember a little d!ckhead L/Cpl like you we had out in the Arizona in the early part of '70. How he ever made it through Boot Camp without his Drill Instructors choking the sh!t out of him is beyond me. He was just like you ... running off at the cakehole about every dammed thing. Wastn't worth a sh!t in the bush. Stood up to run in a firefight one day and took a round in the back. Cried like a little girl.

Saying "God" in the Pledge ain't got a frigging thing to do with religion. There's even a trucking company named "GOD." You're a long winded baztard but you don't know your a$$ from a hole in the ground. You gotta be a pogue. I'm sure glad there ain't no possibility of me ever having to share a fighting hole with you. "Race" up on top of that rock you live under and kiss my a$$ you degenerate little ba$tard.



think you may get a few of thes---you^%$#in' rate more!

Hey Ding Dong, I believe ya hit it right on the 'numnutz'

TeufelHunden
07-12-02, 10:12 AM
...All this infighting amongst ourselves, and it turns out the atheist prick who started all this when he brought his lawsuit, was just using his daughter as a judicial pawn if you will. Hopefully, someone in one of those 9 states will file suit against him for wasting taxpayers money! :mad:

She'll Say The Pledge
Mom: Girl at Center of Pledge Dispute no Atheist

SAN FRANCISCO, California (AP) --The 8-year-old girl whose father successfully sued to have the Pledge of Allegiance declared unconstitutional has no problem with reciting the pledge at school, her mother said Thursday.

"I was concerned that the American public would be led to believe that my daughter is an atheist or that she has been harmed by reciting the Pledge of Allegiance, including the words 'one nation under God,"' Sandra Banning said in a statement. "We are practicing Christians and are active in our church."

Banning never married Michael Newdow, the third-grader's father and the atheist behind the pledge lawsuit. She has full custody of the girl, which Newdow is challenging in court.

It was Banning's first public comment since the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals agreed with Newdow that the words "under God," inserted by Congress in 1954, make the pledge an unconstitutional endorsement of religion. The ruling has been put on hold pending appeals.

Banning, who has hired lawyers in part to explore intervening in the case, said she hopes her efforts will lead to a reversal of the ruling. She also said her daughter "expressed sadness" after the ruling. In his lawsuit, Newdow argued that his daughter was "injured" by being forced to listen to others recite the pledge at the Elk Grove Unified School District.

He said Thursday that he has the right to determine how she is raised.

"I have a right to send my child to a public school without the government inculcating any religious beliefs," he said. Newdow also said that taking an 8-year-old to church doesn't mean the girl is choosing to be religious -- and at any rate, it doesn't matter what the child believes.

"The main thrust of this case is not my daughter, it's me," he said.

Some legal experts said the mother's revelation that the girl herself willingly recites the pledge in class could cast doubts on the legitimacy of the case.

Courts can only hear cases in which there is an injured party, and if there is no injury there is no grounds for a case, said Rory Little, a Hastings College of the Law professor who follows the 9th Circuit.

The federal courts can't address anything unless it's a case of controversy," Little said. "You have to have injury."

NamNuts
07-12-02, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by TeufelHunden
...All this infighting amongst ourselves, and it turns out the atheist prick who started all this when he brought his lawsuit, was just using his daughter as a judicial pawn if you will. Hopefully, someone in one of those 9 states will file suit against him for wasting taxpayers money! :mad:

She'll Say The Pledge
Mom: Girl at Center of Pledge Dispute no Atheist

SAN FRANCISCO, California (AP) --The 8-year-old girl whose father successfully sued to have the Pledge of Allegiance declared unconstitutional has no problem with reciting the pledge at school, her mother said Thursday.

"I was concerned that the American public would be led to believe that my daughter is an atheist or that she has been harmed by reciting the Pledge of Allegiance, including the words 'one nation under God,"' Sandra Banning said in a statement. "We are practicing Christians and are active in our church."

Banning never married Michael Newdow, the third-grader's father and the atheist behind the pledge lawsuit. She has full custody of the girl, which Newdow is challenging in court.

It was Banning's first public comment since the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals agreed with Newdow that the words "under God," inserted by Congress in 1954, make the pledge an unconstitutional endorsement of religion. The ruling has been put on hold pending appeals.

Banning, who has hired lawyers in part to explore intervening in the case, said she hopes her efforts will lead to a reversal of the ruling. She also said her daughter "expressed sadness" after the ruling. In his lawsuit, Newdow argued that his daughter was "injured" by being forced to listen to others recite the pledge at the Elk Grove Unified School District.

He said Thursday that he has the right to determine how she is raised.

"I have a right to send my child to a public school without the government inculcating any religious beliefs," he said. Newdow also said that taking an 8-year-old to church doesn't mean the girl is choosing to be religious -- and at any rate, it doesn't matter what the child believes.

"The main thrust of this case is not my daughter, it's me," he said.

Some legal experts said the mother's revelation that the girl herself willingly recites the pledge in class could cast doubts on the legitimacy of the case.

Courts can only hear cases in which there is an injured party, and if there is no injury there is no grounds for a case, said Rory Little, a Hastings College of the Law professor who follows the 9th Circuit.

The federal courts can't address anything unless it's a case of controversy," Little said. "You have to have injury."


I think most of us who saw this frickin freak interviewed the first time, AND asked by an inteligent interviewer(anybody not a touchy friggin feely Liberal)new this wasn't about his child..it was all about his agenda..case in point; he started with U.S. currency first, "In God We Trust"!

**** on him and any **** head who follows OR agrees with scum like this.

And once again a child is harmned!

arzach
07-12-02, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by NamNuts



I think most of us who saw this frickin freak interviewed the first time, AND asked by an inteligent interviewer(anybody not a touchy friggin feely Liberal)new this wasn't about his child..it was all about his agenda..case in point; he started with U.S. currency first, "In God We Trust"!

**** on him and any **** head who follows OR agrees with scum like this.

And once again a child is harmned!
well put 1Eye!! pain in the butt puke 'daddy, just miserable wid his own fouled up life, trying to use his daughter for his own means! dirt-bag SOB oughta get put in the slammer fer wastin' taxpayer money!--(actually I have a better idea what to do wid that jerk and ANYONE who does that kinda crap!

MCpride
07-15-02, 11:51 AM
To devilpup2B:
the arguement about separation of church and state probably does apply here...except for the fact that the separation of church and state does NOT exist. It's a fictitious lie made up by liberals who claim that it's in the Constitution...but when u ask them where, they haven't the slightest idea!!! Another liberal surprise...

When u say today's youth u r speaking generally, and maybe your school is different but at my school i'd say that Bloodstripe is pretty close... but i've never been anywhere else...so i hope that you're right devilpup...

Just another reason this is bull$h|+:
What is the Star Spangled Banner? --- Our National Anthem
What is the "Stars and Stripes"? --- Our National Flag
What is the Pledge of Allegiance? --- Our National ?????????

As far as i know, the Pledge of Allegiance is just that ... a pledge. I don't know of anything making it a National somethin' or other that all Americans believe in. Correct me if i'm wrong...


My GOD, my Country, then my Corps...
Sempers to ya'll

arzach
07-15-02, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by MCpride
To devilpup2B:
the arguement about separation of church and state probably does apply here...except for the fact that the separation of church and state does NOT exist. It's a fictitious lie made up by liberals who claim that it's in the Constitution...but when u ask them where, they haven't the slightest idea!!! Another liberal surprise...

When u say today's youth u r speaking generally, and maybe your school is different but at my school i'd say that Bloodstripe is pretty close... but i've never been anywhere else...so i hope that you're right devilpup...


My GOD, my Country, then my Corps...
Sempers to ya'll

likin' yer post her MCpride, but ain't never gonna go with God and 'her' Marine Corps come on now Darlin' we ain't gonna start the feminist stuff are we? LMAO

MCpride
07-15-02, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by NamNuts
[B]

p.s. I loath(nah HATE) liberals!



Sometimes you just can't find the words (but in this case that's because the right words haven't been invented yet!!!).


Sempers ya'll

NamNuts
07-16-02, 06:01 AM
Originally posted by MCpride




Sometimes you just can't find the words (but in this case that's because the right words haven't been invented yet!!!).


Sempers ya'll


Hmmmm...interestink..is this like ole charlie proverbz! I still hate Liberals..tank you verdddy much!

gylancaster
07-16-02, 08:07 AM
What this Gunny would like to do is gather up all these so called atheist and these liberal fing judges that thinks these atheists ideas are right and make a fvcking stupid communist decision based on the all mighty IN GOD WE TRUST MONEY and put them all in foxholes and make it rain lead and explosives just to see how many are still atheist when all is said and done. I'd make a bet that during all the rain that these so called atheist liberal a@@holes would be praying to god and see the errors of their ways.
SEMPER FI BROS AND SIS
GYLANCASTER

arzach
07-16-02, 08:17 AM
Originally posted by gylancaster
What this Gunny would like to do is gather up all these so called atheist and these liberal fvcking judges that thinks these atheists ideas are right and make a fvcking stupid communist decision based on the all mighty IN GOD WE TRUST MONEY and put them all in foxholes and make it rain lead and explosives just to see how many are still atheist when all is said and done. I'd make a bet that during all the rain that these so called atheist liberal a@@holes would be praying to god and see the errors of their ways.
SEMPER FI BROS AND SIS
GYLANCASTER

been down that alley Gunny, couldn't get 'em understandin' the logic of yer words tho. ain't no-one I've ever known that 'seen the rain', that weren't prayin' ta the Almighty ta see 'um thru the ordeal. figger these same 'liberal,atheist turds' would be a prayin' then come out and say they got thru their damnselves!! f---in' hypocrites!

Static_Sky
07-16-02, 02:36 PM
ya know, I just signed my contract with the USMC and DOD on the 21st of June, and I thought that this would be the best 4th of July of my life. I guess I don't listen much to the news and what not cause I heard about it on the 4th and now I find out they declared it unconstitutional. this all leads me to think (as bad as this sounds) that I have done the wrong thing. I have signed up to possably give my life for a nation that does not care. they seem to care more about the fact that a time honored traditon has two words they don't wanna say in it than they do about what this tradition represents. Not sure the exact amount but I'm pretty sure it's in the millions of amerian men women (and sometimes Children) patriots have died trying to save these peoples freedom and for what? so these people can ***** and moan about it's unconstitutional to talk about god. I've always been taught that a mans faith in god makes him a man. does this mean our country has no more honor? I don't care what these old MFers say about the Pledge I still belive this nation is (or atleast should be) under-god whether they like it or not

Static_Sky
07-16-02, 02:37 PM
should be American Not amerian (sorry)

wrbones
07-16-02, 03:09 PM
I often wish I could make it all different, but the truth is, we've done our jobs as protectors of frreedom. Folks have the right to be free to do what they must. To feed their families, to provide services that we all need, to be whatever they choose to be. Many are not aware of the sacrifices made for them. Many do not realize or comprehend that freedom requires responsibility. Some take advantage of freedom to enrich themselves at the expense of others, as in the case that started this thread. Those who value freedom will ensure that such cannot long prevail. This is the reason we say, that to those who have sacrificed, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.This is reality. Most who have sacrificed will never be properly rewarded. This is not why we do it. We do it to know that mothers do not have to watch their children die of malnutriton in this nation. We do it that fathers do not have to die in defense of their homes in the numbers that we see in other nations where freedom is only a dream. We do it so that sons and daughters are not taken from their homes in the middle of the night by the state and never seen again. We do it so well that many in this nation are as innocent and ignorant as little children of what we have given for them. This is one reason why Marines are special. They see and know the realities of what the common citizen can never comprehend. We often see the citizens of this nation as being like unruly children in our eyes. We are always aware of their behaviour, and do what little we can to open their eyes, and to mitigate the damage they would do to freedom. Many of us continue our service after active duty as members of veterans organisations, charities, political organisations and numerous other such groups around the nation. We are always faithful. Yet we know the reality. Some things cannot be controlled, they can only be addressed in the best possible fashion that we can find. So, we continue to serve. This is one reason why it is said, "Once a Marine, always a Marine."It is one of our many missions. Do not despair. Accept reality as it is. Look it in the face and know that as a Marine, you can influence and change the world in ways that you never could otherwise. This is a long winded way of saying "Suck it up! and quit yer *****ing! " Nobody likes it, but it can be handled and dealt with. All of this is among many reasons why Marines are who and what they are. We know. and we are always faithful.

arzach
07-16-02, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by Static_Sky
ya know, I just signed my contract with the USMC and DOD on the 21st of June, and I thought that this would be the best 4th of July of my life. I guess I don't listen much to the news and what not cause I heard about it on the 4th and now I find out they declared it unconstitutional. this all leads me to think (as bad as this sounds) that I have done the wrong thing. I have signed up to possably give my life for a nation that does not care. they seem to care more about the fact that a time honored traditon has two words they don't wanna say in it than they do about what this tradition represents. Not sure the exact amount but I'm pretty sure it's in the millions of amerian men women (and sometimes Children) patriots have died trying to save these peoples freedom and for what? so these people can ***** and moan about it's unconstitutional to talk about god. I've always been taught that a mans faith in god makes him a man. does this mean our country has no more honor? I don't care what these old MFers say about the Pledge I still belive this nation is (or atleast should be) under-god whether they like it or not
Tell ya this Sky-- ya ain't made a bad decision-- like Bones said, we do it ta purtect FREEDOM --plain and simple--
the fact that you even said what ya did got me ta wunderin' 'what the &%# are the schools teachin' our young'uns?
ever heered a hanoi jane? traitorus *****? how 'bout the draft dodgin' scum that got pardoned after they left the U.S. of A. to hide in canada?
You just keep yer head screwd on straight, you'll live the rest of yer life with Honor--not many Thank You's-----the patriots will appreciate your work.

Static_Sky
07-16-02, 05:15 PM
copy that fella's

wrbones
07-16-02, 05:38 PM
Ya need a haircut...and who's the ***** inna USMC sweatshirt? LMAO;):D

LadyLeatherneck
07-16-02, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by gylancaster
What this Gunny would like to do is gather up all these so called atheist and these liberal fing judges that thinks these atheists ideas are right and make a fvcking stupid communist decision based on the all mighty IN GOD WE TRUST MONEY and put them all in foxholes and make it rain lead and explosives just to see how many are still atheist when all is said and done. I'd make a bet that during all the rain that these so called atheist liberal a@@holes would be praying to god and see the errors of their ways.
SEMPER FI BROS AND SIS
GYLANCASTER

And that's why GOD created Gunnies!!!! Ooh-Rah and Amen to
that!!!

smnelson
07-17-02, 08:26 AM
What it all comes down to is this: We as Americans, Marines, Mothers and Fathers need to teach our kids what it means to be an American. Pretty soon the next generation will be filtering into public service and even though that scares me to death right now, now is the time to make sure they know that we won't stand for them tearing this Great Country to shreds. If we stand by and watch, like so many other people are doing, the liberal whatever's will make that happen!! It is our responsibility to put a stop to it. I've got a 4 year old daughter, and you can bet your behind that, that little girl is going to know what this Country is all about! Don't stand by and watch what's happening, get out there and let these idiots know what we think!! The one thing I love best about our country, is that WE CAN change it.


Semper Fi!!

Static_Sky
07-17-02, 09:16 PM
I'm that wanna be in the sweater the chick is my best friend

wrbones
07-18-02, 12:33 AM
Wanted to make sure YOU knew which was which. ;)