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hoytarcher45
03-09-05, 12:34 PM
http://www.lowcountrynow.com/stories/101904/LOCcourtmartial.shtml

When I was at PI, this happened to me. Not that I complained, but I was forced to write a statement as to what happened to me when I was in the Charleston Airport. I got a phone call the other day from PI. They are flying me down there as a witness in the court martial. This sucks, because it seems like Im being forced to rat out a Drill Instructor. Oh well. Any advice for when I go down? Ive never had to be in a Court Martial before.

-PFC Miller

yellowwing
03-09-05, 12:49 PM
You are always accountable for what you do. Especially if you put your signature to it. This applies to all of life, not just Our Corps.

You signed a statement, just go tell the truth, or it might be your *ss in a sling.

Danny Jones
03-09-05, 02:03 PM
I can understand your apprehension- I am a reitred 1stSgt- spent 3years on the drill field- 2nd Bn & out at Special Training Branch-when they still had motivation - all Drill Instructors know what they are allowed to do and what they are not supposed to do. The Corporal that gave you advise to tell the truth is very smart- integrity is in my opinion the most important leadership trait-

Lock-n-Load
03-09-05, 02:06 PM
:marine: I'm curious...since this DI is being run up; just what are the charges against him??:marine:

jinelson
03-09-05, 03:51 PM
Listen to these wise Marines brother they are giving you the right advise. It wont be easy for you but it will be right. I wish you the best Pfc. Miller.

Semper Fi :marine:
Jim

kentmitchell
03-09-05, 06:11 PM
They're dumba**ed recruits. How would they know what was excessive?

LivinSoFree
03-09-05, 06:39 PM
I don't think the matter was that it was "excessive," it was that it happened at all- DIs are NOT supposed to IT recruits before they're done with in-processing, in case there are medical issues. What happened was that they got smokechecked, showed up on the island, and then when the docs got to them the next day, they realized that they were jacked up (dehydrated, unusually weak, pulse/heart rate all jacked up), and then asked them what happened.

JAMarine
03-09-05, 07:34 PM
In my day we had a term we lived by. It was called Loyalty.

Enough said.

rich

James F. Owings
03-09-05, 07:43 PM
Ok son... Several things. First, be glad that you are not being asked to testify as a recruit. During my time in Graduate Casual after boot camp I was used as senior chaser and legal clerk... I know what I am talking about...

Second... As you were advised here earlier... tell the truth... it is your duty. It may be that the prosecution will only ask you for negative information... but be assured that the defense will definitely ask you about anything positive.

Third... Back in 1968, just about the first thing that they did to us at MCRD San Diego on our first full day was to run us through a complete physical. It was my third... I had one at AFEES when I went on the 120 day delay program and another on the day that I went in... but the Corps had learned the hard way that people with conditions such as heart disease had (for one reason or another) been checked off as sound.

Having recruits die of such things brought massive Congressional heat on the Corps. Thus the fine screen physical... and *no* PT or other strenuous activity until the medical department issued a clean bill of health.

Peace is always at the mercy of fools and the Corps is always at the mercy of a single bad apple D.I. (see Ribbon Creek) who "tapes open the circuit breakers" re safety... If the action happened as reported then the D.I. put the whole Corps at risk... not just the young men present.

This situation is not of your making. Do your duty and let more experienced people decide where the truth lies.

---Jim---

hrscowboy
03-09-05, 09:08 PM
Do nothing other than tell the truth Marine thats what needs to happen...

Wyndwalkr
03-10-05, 03:46 PM
Really not enough information to make a decision as to circumstances you experienced.. Tell as close to the truth what you saw, how you saw it happen.. Police will tell yopu eye witness's are not good ones after One year..

hoytarcher45
03-10-05, 04:42 PM
Thanks for the advice Marines. I'm now confident as to what I have to do. I just hope I can remember everything that happened. This was back in June. I'll post back and let everyone know how it went. And I though I'd never go back to that godforsaken island. Semper Fi.

BUDMAN
03-10-05, 06:17 PM
About the only thing that I can say is that integrity goes a long way in the Corps and in life. If you don't have integrity you dont have anything.

Lock-n-Load
03-11-05, 06:14 AM
:marine: Before this Thread goes dormant...what are the charges and specifications lodged against this DI??...he's been run up...for what??:marine:

LDO Capt
03-11-05, 06:51 AM
He is charged with 30 violations of Article 92 -- failure to obey an order or regulation -- and 15 violations of Article 93 -- cruelty and maltreatment -- under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

SuNmAN
03-11-05, 09:09 AM
WOW. <br />
&quot;If found guilty, Floyd could be sentenced to one year of confinement and/or hard labor, reduced to the rank of private, made to forfeit pay up to two-thirds of each paycheck for one year or...

LivinSoFree
03-11-05, 10:16 AM
Article 92 is what he'll burn for... I hate to see that 93 specification in there... war is far crueler than boot camp could ever be, and to throw that on top of the pile gives the civilian public some sort of notion that recruit training should be subject to the same niceties as the rest of the world.

jo1753
03-11-05, 10:24 AM
Captain............Those are the charges brought against the Drill Instructor....!! <br />
<br />
But does anyone know..........What exactly they are based upon...?? Because to be honest I haven't heard...

Lock-n-Load
03-11-05, 11:11 AM
:marine: Thank you, LDO Captain:marine:

hoytarcher45
03-12-05, 12:02 AM
Man this could really go far. All we had to do was sit on each others knees. I came to boot camp expecting this stuff. "Mothers of America" I guess. Orders are orders. I guess this is an example of what the old salts call, the "new corps". I still love it thought. YUT!

yellowwing
03-12-05, 05:05 AM
I was called to a Courts Martial Once. The Defence asked me mundane questions, then somehow knew what questions to ask about the weakest points about my Character. All I could and did do was answer truthfully.

Yes, the the two lawyers Marines, The Judge, and the 6 panel of Marines heard my reply on my weakest traits. But it was the truth.

I did not pay attention to the "Bird" Colonel Judge, or the bench of Field Grade Officers and senior SNOICS. I focused only on what the young Captain Defense Attorney was asking, and answered as truthfully as I could remember.

Evertyhing turned out okay.

Tom Hansen
03-14-05, 05:17 PM
Wow, does this bring back memorys. I went to Boot Camp in 1979, 3rd Battlon, Plt 3011, I company. We picked up a DI up at the range that had been bounced from his own Plt, he was the SDI and a SSgt. We picked had a couple of recruits that where recyled at the range as well, one of them had this new DI as his SDI. He was known as a made man, the mean DI in the sceam of things. About a week into this new DI's stay with us something happened. We had 4 fire watch privates per shift, 3 sweapers, 1 at the Duty Hut hatch. Well I was the lucky one at the duty hut. We had a private who was given the task by the new DI to polish his boots during the night. When he got done with the boots he was to take them into the Duty Hut for the DI. Well, I saw him go into the duty hut, he was in the duty hut for about 20 minutes then came out. I did not hear anything going on in there while the private was in there. He went to head and then hit the rack after leaving the duty hut. The next day the next thing I knew I'm being pulled off the rifle range and had to report to the Seires Commander, he was asking questions, I was questioned by NCIS on and off for about 8 hours. Then the JAG lawyers showed up and started there round of questions. For the next 2 days for myself and the others on fire watch where questioned by anybody and everybody. We had no idea at the time what was going on but as it turned out the private accusing the DI of sodimizing him. From that point forward to the end of Boot Camp the 4 of us where pulled from certain training sessons such as Drill and Class room activites to met with the Jag folks. Funny how we passed all tha pract's with 100%, actually I only missed the 2nd phase pract but was credited for it but did get 100% on the 3rd phase. So we graduation on Good Friday and went on our marry way, Marines at last. I was in Avation Hydraulic School in Millington. I was returning from chow on a Friday I got told to go to Mag 901 Headquaters. When getting there I was told that I was headed to San Deigo to be a witness in the DI's Court Marshal. There was one of the other 4 from the platoon going to school with me at Millington so we both head out the next day which was a Saturday. When we got there we took the good old recruit bus to MCRD, it was kind of fun watching the DI's going nuts on the boots. It put a smile on my face just to think about the fun time we all went through. Anyway we checked into legal and found the other two fire watrchers there as well. They told us to check into Cas Company for lodging but they (Cas Company)had no control over us, our rears belonged to legal 24/7. They cut us losse for the rest of the day so we went to the MCRD PX where we just so happened (I always felt it was a set up more than just a chance meeting) we bumped into our Seires Commander. He knew why and what we where doing there, then invited us to his house for a cook out. On Monday we started a 3 week vacation, did not have to field day the barracks, do any type of work at all. All we had to do was to show up a legal at 9 am every morning and they would tell us if they needed us for anything that day. Then they set us free until the next day. After testifing we where sent back to where we came from. From what was passed on to us after the fact is that the DI was found guilty and was given 6-6 and a kick. The private got payed off by the Corps, I have no idea how much. Like I said I don't know what happened in there but they must have had something on the DI. To make a long story short always Tell the Truth, it's part of the Marine corps folk lore, Ask a Marine as they tell the truth....