Females in infintry?

[Lorix]

Times are changing. Women are more accepted in society than ever! They compete with the guys, and their is nothing they can't do. I'm a female that would've liked to be in infintry, why shouldn't females be allowed? I'm better than a lot of the guys going into the Marines, way better at pt than most of them. I could be in infintry, be on the front lines fighting this war. I know a number of other women that feel the same way, we want to get down and dirty with the infintry. Society accepts women in every other career path, but there's still restrictions females have, why can't we be in combat? What do you think, should women be allowed in infintry if they really want to, and have the physical and mental requirements to do so?

[Deviousfred]

they should be allowed and should have all the same physical requirements that men do.

[Lock-n-Load]

:marine: Imagine you and your unit are overrun in a enemy assault on your position...you are the only Marine survivor and now a POW in a very chaotic situation...what do you think will happen to you??...I mean you are sacred shltless and all alone...are you ready to be tortured and raped to death??...American men since colonial days look upon their women as sacred and held on a pedastal; that's one reason, we don't want our women exposed to the murder, mayhem and beastiality of close combat...thank God, our Marine Corps leaders refuse to allocate Women/Marines to MLR infantry/grunt units.:marine:

[Deviousfred]

That came across my mind too SSgt. I do agree but also wouldn't that be the case in any position on or near the field. For example the 507th from Ft. Bliss. I think its a risk being in the military period but more likely to happen in the infantry.

[yellowwing]

Who knows what the future generations will be able to do.

Right now the closest you can get is the Military Police field. During the Panama Campaign, a female Major led her MP's in a counter assault when they were ambushed.

But just look at Iraq, everywhere holds danger. If you have a weapon and some guy is running at your position with an RPG over his shoulder, you're gonna' drop him.

[LivinSoFree]

If you and I are in a fighting hole in the middle of the sandbox, and I take a round to the leg, are you going to be able to buddy drag me (180 pounds), my deuce gear/daypack (15 pounds), my weapon (7.5 pounds), interceptor vest and kevlar (15 pounds), plus you and all your gear, back to the BAS or the Corpsman under fire? I seriously doubt it, and I don't want to take the chance.

[semperfidelis20]

women shouldnt be in combat simply because, combat is not a place for women. not trying to be sexist or anthing. but that is that. throughout history women have not been in combat and just because things are "being made fare" does not me women should be in combat. ive met a few girls that i would rather be beside me than some guys. but combat is not a place for women. im all for women's rights. but this is one place that they should not be.

[BHABIT]

Oh well...here we go!!

I haven't spent too much time in platoon strength, my combat experience was LRP. When we would refit we would spend days just removing the smell of humanity. You would be surprised what you can smell when on patrol.

I've always been a proponent of EQUAL RIGHTS, and have always felt if you wear the colors you better be able to do the job. I know some tough females that can more than hold their own in any situation...CQC, SERE or whatever, but there is one thing that they can't do... that's stop the monthly cycle. When I'd be on patrol and tracking you can smell it... that is a liability!

[Shaffer]

How do you know you are better then the guys currently serving on the front lines are deploying to the front lines? Have you worked out with them? Trained with them? Even seen them in person?

I don't know you and haven't seen you, yet I can just about guarantee you wouldn't last with at least 99.999999% percent of them. May be even 100%. You have no idea what you are talking about and probably will never have any idea.

Think before you speak!!!

[Nagalfar]

Let me first say, that if a woman meets ALL of the SAME testing standards that the men do I will gladly back her for doing any job she wants to do, but that is not the way it is, standards have been reduced for women so they can pass, this is total BULL.. there is a reason and a point to having "standards", it means everyone can do their job, it means everyone on that team has a common level of physical prowess, a common level of mental toughness/awareness that is required for those personnel to go from being a individual, to being a team member, the point being, the fastest team in no faster than the slowest person on that team, and when the slowest person don’t have the physical or mental ability to keep up their end, someone else in that team has to pull the slack for the weakest, that in turn making that team more vulnerable to the hazards of it’s duty..

I say this, to the women in the military, who are finding the military a male domineered institution, this is a surprise? to who? it has been a male domineered, run, and designed for men, by men institution since its inception, it has been refined, and is constantly being refined to make it as effective as possible, which in a most basic of terms means, doing things this way saves lives, and makes us more combat effective, as we have learned from going over and over, most every after action report ever written, by reading both ours and those of our enemies, and our own personnel that doing it "this way" will make us more effective in the field.

Women have a place in the military, and if they pass the same tests as a man, they should have any job a man can have, but there is where it gets murky, women in combat zones, have a HUGE pregnancy rate.. during the first gulf war, the pregnancy rate was so high the pentagon tried very hard to hide the actual numbers, and still do, try getting the numbers for current personal that come up pregnant, you cant get it. The point of this being, get pregnant and go home where its safe (I feel this to be a modern form of bugging out) the bug out rate of female personal on the line is through the roof based on all conventional reports, point being if this was in fact error the pentagon would give us the actual numbers of the in the field pregnancy rate, it is my opinion this DESTROYS units that have trained for combat with these personnel, and have come to depend on them, you cant just slide another body in there and expect it to not detract from that units ability to fight.. it does.. and that gets people killed.

Women can be every bit as effective in combat as men, as any Waffen soldiers who met some of Russia's women on the eastern front will attest to, they were every bit as good, and as brutal as the Russian men, V.C. used women, very effectively, there are 1000's of times though out history were women have been used in very effectively in combat.. and most of the time they have been as effective as the men, with the proper training, and discipline.. do we somehow think that lowering standards, and not enforcing discipline so that they can remain in uniform to show what the world that, wow, isn't America progressive, or P.C. its costing us, lives, unit moral, money and wasted time.. I feel the form is right.. but the execution is totally bass akward..

There are a lot of good and bad women in the military, just like men, but giving them a key role in combat units, and letting them just bug out when the lead starts flying is bull, this was not intended to attack or make anyone mad.. these are my thoughts..

[Lorix]

I didn't mean I was better than those on the front line. I am a poolee, and I was referring to those poolees I train with at the pool functions. I'm stronger than most of the guys going into the Marines where I'm from, and many of them are going into infintry. Even though I am a woman, you shouldn't doubt me, I'm a lot stronger than I look.

[Shaffer]

How many pull ups can you do? Not arm hang, pull ups? What is your 3 mile run time? How many situps can you do?

[Cheezballz]

Theirs an actual study that men take more stress mentally than women, women are more emotional, so imagine if some male Marines still get shooken up in the war imagine the women, yet alone grunts think of female Marines as just females. Your not gonna put 30 females in a grunt battallion, imagine if u do, trainin wouldn't be as hard, NCO's have to watch their back as to what they say, and i definitely don't think females can hump as much gear as males. well those are my 2centz! 1st CEB oorahh!!!!

[cajunguy]

Poolees are just that. POOLEES. They are not Marines. They have not yet passed the first crucial test, that of Marine Corps boot camp.

And guess what. It gets harder from there on. Especially if they are going into infantry (not "infintry", by the way) units. They will be preparing and training more for combat, and survival in combat. Then if they (very likely) get to an actual combat environment, it will get harder still.

Just because you are bigger, badder, tougher than your fellow poolees does not equate to being bigger, badder, tougher in a combat environment.

I can appreciate your motivation, Lorix, don't let up. It will take all of that motivation just to become one of "The Few", wherever you end up serving. Best of luck to you.

[hrscowboy]

HEAR MY WORDS LADIES WE DONT NEED NO PREFUME SMELLING, PMSING, WHINNING NANCY IN THE HEAT OF BATTLE.. IT DONT WORK THEY HAVE TRIED IT AND IT FLOPPED. THE DAY THEY LET A WOMAN IN THE ACTUAL FIGHT THATS THE DAY I TURN MY GEAR IN AND SAY THIS DOG DONT HUNT WITH NO WOMEN.... ENUFF SAID..

[Catz1611]

Women know from the get go where they can and can't serve and Joining any branch of the service is not something that anyone is Forced to do..it's all Volunteer and Not every volunteer is or has to be accepted. So why should the Military let women into any Combat MOS? There isn't any equality in the fitness tests soo why not start there if there are going to be complaints about Equality??


More important, How would letting women into those MOS's make our military stronger? what Benifits would there be?

I absolutely agee women would be nothing but a liability for the men... Not to mention it would cause more problems and more desention than Comradarie..

[Phantom Blooper]

I Knew G.I. Jane,I served with G.I. Jane. And you young lady,are NOT G.I.Jane.

My names Chuck Hall and I'm responsible for this comment! Semper Fidelis!



:marine:

[alanUSMCDEP03]

OORAH to that Cpl Cowboy !!! The fact that the majority of most male grunts would rebel and be against the idea and lower their morale is good enough reason in the first place to keep them out.

Can u imagine the enemy smirking and laughing at us big bad tough Marines who use women to fight our battles? To many negative things would come out of it-sexual abuse allegations, unfair treatment allegations, rape incidents, just to name a few.

You want 100% equal treatment GI Jane? lol Get a high and tight

[Phantom Blooper]

Water is rationed in the desert. It is normally made on ships and flew in on water bulls or made on land for washing and the little bit of showering in the rear. You won't have enough H20 to keep your pits and legs shaved to USMC regulations if your on the front lines. A man can dry shave and drop his pants just about any where. Then again I guess a woman can too............

[yellowwing]

Every Marine a Rifleman
No, not anytime in the near future will Combat Arms be open to WM's.

Lorix, keep up your motivation and desire to Earn the Title.

WM's definately need to know combat basics and keep proficiency in rifle training. Who's to say where the next war and battle will be fought.

Shoshana Johnson and Jessica Lynch learned the hard way that they weren't combat ready. And they were "lucky", there have been women killed in Iraq.

If you were in your avionics shop or admin tent and mortar rounds start falling preceding an enemy frontal attack, you will be expected to grab a weapon and repel the enemy's assault by fire and close combat.

[Phantom Blooper]

Every Marine a Rifleman If you were in your avionics shop or admin tent and mortar rounds start falling preceding an enemy frontal attack, you will be expected to grab a weapon and repel the enemy's assault by fire and close combat.

With all due respect,every Marine is a rifleman- man or woman (rifleman not PC-person)However,to"repel the enemy's assault by fire and close combat" in the rear is not the same as being in the frontal position or house to house,or room to room. Everyone is expected to complete the mission,and repel the enemy's assault thats what one signed on the line and raised the hand for.

Shoshana Johnson and Jessica Lynch learned the hard way that they weren't combat ready

there have been women killed in Iraq. Enough said. Semper-Fi! Chuck Hall:marine:

[Patty_McOorah]

I could not agree more with all of you marines. There was a WM in my MCMAP greenbelt class who came in thinking she was all that. Well after some ground fighting, she found out that she really wasn't. I kind of felt sorry for her, and these were people who were just training. Imagine what someone trying to kill her would have done?

[yellowwing]

That's why I narrowed it with "No, not anytime in the near future will Combat Arms be open to WM's."

But WM's still have to know how to fight.

PittsburgLive.com
Wednesday, February 9, 2005
by Chirs Foreman (http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/trib/regional/s_301818.html)
...Almost two years later, U.S. troops remain in Iraq, and Spc. Johnson said she still is fighting for her full disability benefits. She said the war has lasted too long and the U.S. could have had a better plan, but she offered no specifics.

"I never got that into military strategy. I could cook potatoes for 500, though," [Shoshana] Johnson said.

If given a choice, I'd much rather have the likes of Arlene Horton, CAS3, and THATFEMALE over Spc. Shoshana Johnson.

[Phantom Blooper]

QUOTE]No, not anytime in the near future will Combat Arms be open to WM's."[/QUOTE]


I don't believe that it will ever happen-near or far future. The U.S. has too many hands in the pot. i.e. ACLU ,Democratic & Republican parties,left&right wings,Vets Against....,with todays involvement in Iraq the list could be endless. We can't get the homefront right,let alone the foreign politics which dictate war.

Yes,there are tough Woman Marines and I give my utmost respect too them. But,I am a poolee, and I was referring to those poolees I train with at the pool functions. I'm stronger than most of the guys going into the Marines where I'm from, and many of them are going into infintry.(sic-infantry) Hell,95% of the poolees are kids,male and female. Bootcamp makes a man or woman a Marine not a war,battles or conflicts. War makes heroes,legends,and the mental health profession and funeral directors richer.


On a lighter note I would be a damn fool if i didn't agree with,If given a choice, I'd much rather have the likes of Arlene Horton, CAS3, and THATFEMALE over Spc. Shoshana Johnson.

Semper-Fi! Chuck Hall

[Sgtj]

Originally posted by Lorix
Times are changing. Women are more accepted in society than ever! They compete with the guys, and their is nothing they can't do. I'm a female that would've liked to be in infintry, why shouldn't females be allowed? I'm better than a lot of the guys going into the Marines, way better at pt than most of them. I could be in infintry, be on the front lines fighting this war. I know a number of other women that feel the same way, we want to get down and dirty with the infintry. Society accepts women in every other career path, but there's still restrictions females have, why can't we be in combat? What do you think, should women be allowed in infintry if they really want to, and have the physical and mental requirements to do so?


It has to do with a lot more then physical or mental reqs. AND I will leave it at that.

[BHABIT]

As usual Ya'll take me out of context.... LISTEN VERY CLOSE!!! CONSIDER YOUR RESPONSE CAREFULLY!!!!

I'm for equal oportunity!!! You NEED to refer back to my original post!!! If you don't undertstand it... then YOU ARE THE ONE THAT IS SPEEKING OUT OF YOUR A**.

I don't care who you are...if you jepodize my mission and my personel... you are OUT!!! Cpls, and Poolies... what do you know? You think that just because you're strong you can mouth off? Before your arms are raised your head will be on the tarmac!!!

This is exactly why I'm beginning to hate this website...Poolies and Cpls that know it all...

Measure your words VERY carefully people!!! I did'nt get here by dating your mother!!!

I'M OUT!!!

SEMPER FI... to those that understand... the rest ... are just wanabes!

[woodman]

Did one of HABIT's posts get scrubbed ? I do agree with him that there is no room for compromise when a mission or my Marines lives are at stake. SF BHABIT

[greensideout]

I really hate the PC crap. How many times did I read in this thread apologies after statements that women should NOT be in combat and then, "women should have fair this and that".

Lorix, get some education! Learn some facts! Study war!

Your PT doesn't mean a thing.

[Arlene Horton]

To start off I must thank Yellowwing for his encouraging comment including me. I fully agree that women have no business in the INFANTRY. Having watched the programs about Parris Island Boot camp which shows what those young women are required, especially "the Crucible" I have a great deal of pride in the current day Woman Marines. Their training is outstanding and to be honest about it, I sometimes wish we had such exacting training "back then". There is no way, however, that I would consider having women amoung our beloved Marines fighting to defend our Country. I have found that the male Marines always seem to be outstanding in their courtesy and consideration of ladies. That Poolie has a lot to learn big time before she even gets to Boot. A female's muscles, body mass and endurance needed for a battle situation is no where near that of a male's ability. The strength women displey when pregnant & delivering a baby does not equal the strength of a man in a battle situation, especially in the current theatres of battle. Our brave male Marine brothers don't need to be concerned about who is watching their backs. Semper Fi Arlene

[Sgtj]

"Before your arms are raised your head will be on the tarmac!!!

Gunz, what the hell is this about. Who are you talking too?

[greensideout]

Arlene Horten,

I have been reading your posts for some time now and I have to say that I see you as a very wonderful person! I'm glad that a person like you has served in our Marine Corps! You have a way of representing what the core values of the Marine Corps are about.

I just had to say what I have been thinking for a long time.

Semper Fi Marine

[BHABIT]

Lorix How do you know you are better then the guys currently serving on the front lines are deploying to the front lines? Have you worked out with them? Trained with them? Even seen them in person?

When I'm wrong...I'm WRONG!!! I didn't see This post addressed to "LORIX".

NO EXCUSES... I WAS WRONG!

SEMPER FI

[greensideout]

Originally posted by BHABIT
Cpls, and Poolies... what do you know?


Having a bad day Gunny?

I have never seen a Gunny disrespect the rank of CPL before.

Hope you have a better day tomorrow.

I once had a Gunny that would pull a hot case of beer from under his cot in the morning and call out, "sick call".---lol

Slam one down and see you tomorrow.

Semper Fi

[greensideout]

BHABIT, we posted at the same time. If I had been able to read your's first, I would not have posted mine. SF

[THATFEMALE]

One day ladies one day. No disrespect intended to my male counterparts but forget you guys. Half of you are not as strong emontionally and physcially as you think. I know for a fact that I can hang with just about any grunt. If you want want proof as my former 1st Sgt. (1st Sgt. Diaz) Hrscowboy get ready to turn your gear in! I guarntee you we can go at it toe to toe. Enuff said there. Marines get ready because theres a new breed of female who's coming to take charge! If you want a challenge you can reach me at CSSG-3. Semper FI to all my Lady Leathernecks out there. :marine:

[THATFEMALE]

Any male Marine out there who want to challenge me on a fitness level you're welcome to it. You can find me at CSSG-3/ Supply Company/ Marine Corp Base Hawaii. As for alanUSMCDEP03, listen young buck we are "Marines" not GI Jane. Have some respect. I can't stand you males! :mad:

[BHABIT]

THATFEMALE...

I respect what your saying... but I still stand by my original post. I have known Marines with convictions and valor... you might be one of them... but again there is this ONE THING that separates us...

Do not misunderstand what I'm saying...physically and emotionally you may be up to the task... but within you there is a tide that ebbs and flows that you have NO control of. That is what sets us apart... it isn't YOU it is just genetics. It's that change, that varies without any indication or difference that would put you outside my consideration.

I understand what your heart and soul wants... but I can'nt rationalize the lives of the rest of my squad for your personal gratification.

Semper

[BHABIT]

Greenside...

If you only knew the day and the life... don't want sympathy... I've always called a spade a spade....

Don't worry about your post...

Semper Fi

[hrscowboy]

WELL WELL WELL it seems we have ruffled some female tail feathers, First of all Lance Corporal thatfemale i could promise you that i could have taken your hard chargin young body and made a mess out of it in 2 weeks in the Nam not a problem i have seen it done too several young men while we were there and you would have not lasted 2 weeks after getting in country. I have seen the best hump a hell of lot of ammo and mortars and mortar plates all day long and i know for a fact there aint no woman going to be able to keep up with that kind of pace, Oh i forgot your the new Marine Corps, back in my day you wouldnt have lasted 1 week in boot camp because my drill Instructors would have broke you down after kickin your pretty little ass in and you would have been writing home to your momma and daddy crying to get out of the corps. Ever had a rifle butt laid across your skull or thumped on constantly because someone else screwed up thats what it was like back in my day. you would have never been able to take the abuse that we Marines took back in the Old Corps. In todays Marine Corps a drill instructor so much as touches you and hes going down or Momma and daddy starts Law suit proceedings. Many of times i have thanked my drill instructors for teaching me the art of survival and if i was able to see these same men today i would shake there hands and thank them again. I have no disrespect for any Marine what so ever but a female in combat will never happen not in my life time it wont and you will be retired or out of the Marines by that time.. Enuff said..

[Cheezballz]

hell look at me i know my mos i smoke, drink, lil overweight, not a lot and i still hit 20-21minute flat runs, 20 pullups, their's no way a female can do more than 15, their is some females out there but i swear no wm can hit over 15 pull-ups, i guarandamd-T- it. we had this wm ssgt talkn mad trash before a pt run, i'm talkn mad trash like, 'I'm a wm and i still sound off louder htan the malez, 30 minutez later she fell out! lol, like i said no way, i've seen my share

[usmchauer]

CSSG-3

Supply Company

Marine Corps Base Hawaii

lol......

[Cheezballz]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!