Marine recruit who drowned at boot camp

[kungfu_rider]

I haven't seen any threads that discuss about this matter, so I guess I'll start one.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6988854

In the link, it says...

"Marines probe boot camp drowning
Drill instructor caught on tape striking 19-year-old

By Jim Miklaszewski
Correspondent
NBC News
Updated: 7:39 p.m. ET Feb. 17, 2005


An autopsy revealed 19-year-old Jason Tharp drowned last week during water survival training at the Marine Corps boot camp at Parris Island, S.C.

Video shot on Feb. 7, the day before Tharp's death, by NBC affiliate WIS-TV in Columbia, S.C., shows Tharp, visibly shaken and almost terrified, taking a forearm shot from a Marine drill instructor.

In the Marines only five weeks, Tharp had written seven letters home telling his family he wanted out. His father, John Tharp, claims Jason had been singled out by drill instructors because he couldn't keep up with the rigorous basic training.

"I don’t know how they could treat my son the way we saw on that video," says Tharp. "He never hurt nobody. He'd do anything anybody asked him."

During last week's training, Tharp, seen on the WIS-TV video, at first refused to get into the water.

"He's just afraid because he is not able to do the swim correctly right now, and he just wants to leave and go home," said Staff Sgt. Anthony Davis on the Feb. 7 videotape.

After 20 minutes of trying to coax Tharp into the pool, the drill instructor turned physical in apparent violation of Marine Corps regulations — striking Tharp across the chest.

"That right there, where this Marine grabs the recruit, this is not how you treat recruits," said Eugene Fidell, the president of the National Institute of Military Justice, when NBC News showed him the video. "I mean, this is a wrongful touching. Basically, it's an assault."

Marine Corps officials say Tharp voluntarily entered the pool the next day, where he drowned during a 25-meter swim. Officials also say there's no early evidence of any misconduct by Marine instructors at the time Jason drowned, but the conduct caught on camera the day before raises questions about exactly what happened in that pool.

Jason's father is considering a wrongful-death lawsuit against the Marines.

"We just want justice for Jason," says Tharp. "To get some kind of bill passed to where this won't happen to another family."

The Navy and Marines are investigating Jason's death and the conduct of the drill instructors who were supposed to protect him."

[kungfu_rider]

I did my part of watching Full Metal Jacket and I'm pretty much ready to be slapped and gutted by the drill instructor. But I just can't help but feel sorry for the guy. He must've been so scared. I pray that he's in God's hand now and that his family finds peace and justice.

This news has definately put a dent in the reputation of the Marine Corp. The problem is that potential recruits need to do more personal research on the branch they're joining rather than just getting the info from their recruiter. They need to know what to expect at boot camp, especially for the Marine Corp. Obviously this lad didn't do this. But I just can't help but feeling bad for him.

What do you all think?

[Matt Starbuck]

I saw some guys in bootcamp that were so lost that you almost felt sorry for them. I think everyone had the "deer in the headlights" look at first. If you didn't catch on to instructions fast things were going to get ugly real quick. Mostly, you were glad it wasn't you getting the special attention. In bootcamp when one person screws up everyone pays! If you screw up enough the whole platoon will want to beat the crap out of you.

This is a real sensitive issue. Boot camp is tough, not everyone can make it. The kid didn't deserve to die and it will be investigated. The system is such that recruiters put in everyone they can and the drill instuctors have to try and make Marines out of them. It's not a perfect world, and it isn't a dent in the reputation of the Marine corps. Don't let the lawyers and the media make this into something it's not. It was an exception to the rule not the norm.

[hrscowboy]

again the media is allowed to be somewhere where they have no business being. What in the hell has this world come too when we have to have press running around our bases seeing what kind of training is going on.. or what type of war are we fighting and are we fighting the war by guidelines when the enemy doesnt... Its time for our Commandant to say NO PRESS on any Marine Corp Base unless he authorizes it and NO press in any training areas what so ever...

[Sgted]

The whole idea of challenging a young man to do the very best he can, to find the strength inside himself to complete, as best he can, any task put before him is what turns out Marines.
If the DI can get that man to dig out the determination to do his best, to find the confidence within himself to succeed at any given task then the DI has done his job.
Most all of us have the ability, we just lack the confidence or determination.
We all know what methods are used by the DI to get us to do our best.
Whom amongst us were impacted negitively by our treatment and training in boot camp ?. I thing the majority of us can honestly say that it made us better men whether we became lifers or got out after a few years.

BTW......I also want the media O U T.
The American public wants reality only when it's attached to entertainment value in their boring lives.
Decorating.
Court drama of frivilous lawsuites.
Extreme anything.
Stupid people doing stupid things.

True reality like flag draped caskets they don't want to see.

[jinelson]

Right out the gate I say that the media has no business filming Marine training in boot camp. Not that there is anything wrong with it but I know how the media takes things out of context to provide fodder for the mad moms against everything.

Secondly water surival training can be terrifying to the non swimmer and they never should have been put in that position in the first place. We have all been there, think back do yo remember the terrified looks on the faces of those young non swimmers. Dont you think that it could have been avoided by required third party certification as a qualified swimmer prior to acceptance at MEP's? Just my two cents, this is a sad situation all the way around. May recruit private Jason Tharp rest in peace.

[mrbsox]

MARINE !!

By the nature of it's name, WATER is included.

The recruiter should have done a better job of steering this 'little Johnny' away.
Maybe the Drill Instructors should have let 'little Johnny' out before he got that far.
Maybe the Drill Instructors were DOIN THEIR Fkn JOB, by MAKING a MARINE out of this boy.

Boot Camp is NOT the place for the 'timid' to graduate from.

Wonder what this 'boy' may have done had he got to the range, and got his hands on some live ammo ??

I'm sorry for the family. But...
The Corps best interest should prevail, or it will become like Army Basic Training.

footnote;
saw an article earlier where the army basic training had ended manditory bayonet training in the early 70's, as being 'obsolete' in the high tech warefare of the future.

[barryjh]

if you want in the club, you have to pay the dues

[arnoldyG/2/5]

Drill Instructors train Marines not f**cking girl scouts. Get the media out and let these dedicated professionals continue to produce the world's finest fighting force!!!!!!!

[LDO Capt]

After viewing the video footage, and reading the article it is obvious that the young man did not belong at Recruit Training. Lets face it, the Corps is NOT for everyone. The missions (another word for quotas) that are placed on our Recruiter's and Drill Instructor's are where the problem starts and in my opinion need to be fixed. I'm not saying that the Drill Instructor should have struck the Recruit but put yourself into the Platoon Commander, Platoon Sergeant, Squad Leader, or Fire Team leader's position when a Marine falls through the cracks, graduates, and checks into his first unit, on a combat patrol, and a river (or any body of water) needs to be crossed. He is jeopardizing the entire unit. The title of Marine is Earned, not given. We cannot keep qualifing the unqualified just to make recruiting and retention goals.

[mrbsox]

Hand salute;

Welcome aboard, Sir.

Ready two.

[al20852]

The DI is as much a victim in this as the recruit. He will certainly suffer and be made an example of. We have all been in the situation where a little motivation was necessary, and most of the time the person motivated succeeds and is happy someone pushed him to go beyond what he thought were his limits. That is the job of a DI. He has to make his poolees do things he never dreamed were possible in civilian life.

[Old Marine]

If this kid hadn't drowned in water survival, he might have been killed when he got to the sand box. The problem is when he got to the sand box he might take some good Marines with him. Sounds like he was a Gomer all the way around. Rest in peace young man.

[jryanjack]

Agree LDO, quotas are good for everyone else, but the Corps should not lower itself to that level. While its tragic, this recurit most likely should not have been there. As someone has already posted, the title Marine, is earned not given, quota's be damned!

[lprkn]

My two cents.

I watched the video, and it appeared to me that the reason that the recruit was struck was that he came within an arm's distance of the drill instructor. That was a cardianl rule at boot camp when I was there. That would have happened to any recruit that didn't say, "By your leave, sir." Or something to that effect.

There was no reason that he needed to die. From personal experience, I know that those swim tank Drill Instructors are a little more "intense". They also have to watch large groups of recruits swim or try to swim, day in and day out. From personal experience, I had a buddy at boot camp who blacked out in the pool, and would have sunk to the bottom, if a fellow recruit next to him hadn't grabbed him. Who knows how long he would've been down there? I'm not criticizing the swim tank instructors, but they can't let their guard down even for a second, or something like this happens.

But how long does it take to drown completely? A couple of minutes at least.

[eddief]

Originally posted by jinelson
Right out the gate I say that the media has no business filming Marine training in boot camp. Not that there is anything wrong with it but I know how the media takes things out of context to provide fodder for the mad moms against everything.

Secondly water surival training can be terrifying to the non swimmer and they never should have been put in that position in the first place. We have all been there, think back do yo remember the terrified looks on the faces of those young non swimmers. Dont you think that it could have been avoided by required third party certification as a qualified swimmer prior to acceptance at MEP's? Just my two cents, this is a sad situation all the way around. May recruit private Jason Tharp rest in peace.

I'm with you. The Corps shouldn't take non-swimmers to boot.

[kungfu_rider]

I was thinking that it may be a suicide. But someone else also said that sinking in an attempt to drown oneself is not an easy task. But I still feel that his death should not have happened. No doubt those in charge didn't want this to happened. But the mistake is unforgivable.

[Old Marine]

Originally posted by eddief


I'm with you. The Corps shouldn't take non-swimmers to boot.

Where should they go? Maybe to the Navy. During the recruit training cycle, I do not believe that the Marine Corps has time to teach recruits to swim.

During Nam, at MCRD, SD, we used to send privates to Midway Adult School to learn how to read and write. This was for 1/2 day about three times a week. This was when Robert McNamara was Sec. of Defence and you could not drop anyone from your platoon. We call these pvts McNamara's Band. Our platoons consisted of 80 to 90 pvts and most of the time a DI team was picking up another platoon when the one they were working hadn't graduated yet.

But the DI's won in the end and put these pvts in front of the Depot Theater for graduation.

[Lorix]

I don't think the recruit sould've even been there. In a different article I found, it says Tharp never really wanted to be a Marine, he just made the desicion because he wanted to make decisions for himself. He obviously wanted out, contacted his family, they went to his recruiter to see what they could do to get him out of boot, the recruiter said it would take 2 weeks. I think Tharp refused orders from there, knowing he would be out soon, and so refused to get in the water. He provoked the di to get aggressive, it was wrong for the di to hit Tharp, but I don't think Tharp was all that innocent.

The next day in the pool, I don't think Tharp really tried his best. I think he was mad, and just wanted to give the di a hard time, maybe the di would send him home sooner if he ****ed him off. There's my opinion.

[P. M. SHEEHAN]

It's hard to believe that the media got into a training area without permission. It simply is not allowed, so somebody must have authorized it thinking it would be a good promo. I've been to the pool with my husband and there are Marine lifeguards all over the place. Where's the proof that he actually drowned?
For those of you who read the Marine Corps Times, you know that accidents happen all the time on both coasts. Fortunately, a lot of it doesn't get into the public domain. Many of the young kids going into "boot" today are soft and not tough like years ago. My husband was beaten in grammer school and high school by nuns and brothers, and knew how to handle himself on the street. Therefore, boot camp was nothing more than fine-tuning and discipline. You can't get "blood out of a stone". This kid should have received a separation discharge and sent back home. I believe that's what is done today in cases like this. I'd still like to hear about the autopsy report to see if there were any "pre-existing conditions " which could have contributed to the death.

[vfm]

I remember my first day at PI when our Senior DI stated :"There's only 2 ways off this island as a United States Marine or in a pine box; the decision is yours ladies!!!"
SEMPER FI!!!
vfm

[SuNmAN]

What a weak little wimp. I graduated October of 2004, a mere 4 months ago, and even then I've been struck numerous times by Drill Instructors. This is the UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS, not the frickin boy scouts, where America breeds warriors of toughness, where America makes Marines.

I read the same article on Michaelmoore.com (yes, I know he's a hard line anti-military radical) and it said Tharp joined the marine Corps for COLLEGE MONEY. Wow, he sure picked the wrong frickin service there.

I just watched the video too. That "strike" was nothing. I've personally been hit and shoved much harder than that and I've known recruits who were punched in the face or kicked. We have one of the hardest training programs in the nation and we take deep pride in that. Thats what makes us MARINES.

However, despite all that, the DIs have to take some responsiblilty. Tharp, no matter what a wussy I think he was, did not deserve to die, and the DIs shouldve ensured that it did not happen. My deepest sympanthies to him and his family, and I hope nothing like this ever happens again.

All that I'm saying is - I wouldn't want him in my Marine Corps. The non-hacker should've been allowed to go home.

[SuNmAN]

Here what I think they need to do -

Raise standards:

Must prove that they can master basic swimming techniques prior to enlistment.

Must be capable of a minimum of 6 pullups, 65 crunches and 11:30 in the mile and a half prior to shipment.

Just my two cents...I can already feel the flames coming

[Sgtj]

SuNman, I think you need to spend a little time training Marines before you spout of like that. I agree with ya'll with this media frenzy and the fact that the recruit refused orders is bs, but by no means should you start casting judgements. On the Corps or on the kid. None of knows what really happened.

I also disagree with ya'll on enlistment standards. Partially, because I've had Marines come out of bootcamp and I honeslty couldn't beleive they even stepped foot in front of a drill instructor. But you know what, it was my responsibility at that point to "fine tune" those Marines, and bring them up to speed. Its called training, and instilling, something that should never stop, actually it should be strictly enforced after bootcamp.
SuNmaN with all due respect if you keep finding yourself or did find yourself getting smacked around so much, then you need to check yourself. It shouldn't take more then one good @ss whoopin... Should it?

Regardless when all said and done, of course I think the entire deal is BS, I saw the video and didnt' see anything wrong.

Semper Fi.

[CAR]

I think no matter how you tear this situation up a few things are true:
1) It is obvious that the kid couldn't swim and was a hard case.
2) The DI's and Pool staff are all over the place and are in positions to observe every one in the water and effect a rescue if needed. It obviously took to long to pull this kid out. Someone dropped the ball.
3) The camera men were there at the invitation of someone. They did not just happen to be there. No matter how you chop this up, the media crew is not an issue, he drowned the next day. It is only perception of civilians that make it an issue.
4) This is the Marine Corps and sometimes people die in training and no matter how hard we try, it happens.

You can try to criticize the system, say we need to change this or that, but it has proven itself time and time again to produce some of the worlds finest fighting men and women. We are that way because of our training. Change what you will, accidents and mistakes will still happen and unfortunately someone may die because of it.

[SuNmAN]

Originally posted by Sgtj
SuNman, I think you need to spend a little time training Marines before you spout of like that. I agree with ya'll with this media frenzy and the fact that the recruit refused orders is bs, but by no means should you start casting judgements. On the Corps or on the kid. None of knows what really happened.

I also disagree with ya'll on enlistment standards. Partially, because I've had Marines come out of bootcamp and I honeslty couldn't beleive they even stepped foot in front of a drill instructor. But you know what, it was my responsibility at that point to "fine tune" those Marines, and bring them up to speed. Its called training, and instilling, something that should never stop, actually it should be strictly enforced after bootcamp.
SuNmaN with all due respect if you keep finding yourself or did find yourself getting smacked around so much, then you need to check yourself. It shouldn't take more then one good @ss whoopin... Should it?

Regardless when all said and done, of course I think the entire deal is BS, I saw the video and didnt' see anything wrong.

Semper Fi.
--------------------------------------------------
Sergeant, what you say is true. I apologize for losing my bearing because I truly got mad when I read the article and saw the video.

I jsut simply can't believe how many of these whiners are trying to make our Marine Corps soft, thats all.

Drill instructors DO get pretty physical at times. Its not because I was an extra heinous recruit or anything, it just that thats the way they treated recruits in general. That little "strike" we saw in the video is really NOTHING, and I can't believe so many people are whining about it.

I jsut think that if you can't hack it you should jsut be sent home, rather than let some "slip through the cracks" and hurt the Corps for years to come.

Just my personal opinion, thats all.

Semper Fi

[Sgtj]

You got some good points Marine, and trust me I understand where your coming from having had to re-train a lot of Marines that seemed to slip through the cracks. Regardless, the point I was trying to make is that sometimes the Marine doesn't really break stride until he/she is well out of bootcamp. I think the Corps knows exactly what its doing, but trust me there were many times as a young NCO (Hell I'm still young) that I thought to myself "what the hell is going on here, where in the hell did this Marine come from?" Fact is SunMan, the ones that don't pick up the pace in the fleet will get what they deserve and hell if they continue to fall through the cracks - and some will, they still have to look at themeselves everyday in the mirror. Hey I'm ramling on now.. When all said and done, I'm on your side!

Semper Fi.

[SuNmAN]

Ooorah Sergeant :-)

[yellowwing]

Fret not SuNmAN,

Our Marine Corps always finds a way! Training has always been changing. But the message from all the generations of Marines:

Here's health to you and to our Corps
Which we are proud to serve
In many a strife we've fought for life
And never lost our nerve!

Semper Fidelis, Young Brother :marine:

[odc25]

I have a ? about this matter... Will this Marine Recruit be givin a Military Burial ?

[jo1753]

I too am sad to hear this kid died...!!!

I was also sad to hear that several recruits died over 30yrs ago during training.....when a Drill Instructor run his platoon thru the swamps @ PI. Or when a pvt..........running along side of me dropping dead of a heart-attack.

To say training is tuff is an understatement.
And I feel............for as many recruits those Drill Instructors,PMI's and any other trainers deal with every day. I feel they do a SUPER JOB..........To change their roles...would be to change the Marine Corps.

Just like some others already mentioned..........the media has no business....sticking there cameras in a training session.

Actually it's really hypercritical on the medias' part. They will be the first to condemn us when something goes down the S*itter..!!!

But when everything goes just peachy.....they want to be our buddys..... talk about fair-wheather-friends. These people must have wrote that book also......LOL!!!

Semper-Fi

God bless the corps

[jo1753]

Originally posted by odc25
I have a ? about this matter... Will this Marine Recruit be givin a Military Burial ?

My ( GUESS ).......would be no...!! just based on the fact usually someone has to be in a set time in-order to even be eligible for Veterans benifits.

But again..........this is just my best guess...!!!

Semper-Fi

God bless the Corps

[yellowwing]

Even if he does rate it, I doubt his family would request it.

[Sgtj]

I agree, with yellowwing, why would his family want their son buried by us if they didn't respect us in the first place. But I do beleive if the family wanted a Marine funeral they could get one. A recruit is a Pvt. no matter what name the Drill Instructors give you. Your still a Private as far as the United States Marine Corps is concerned.

[SuNmAN]

wow good question...no clue

[BHABIT]

Sgtj...

It has always been my opinion that we should not pass along problems... I respect the patience that you have or had and the ability to overlook the previous problems that your remedial recruits had. However I have never believed in passing problem recruits down the line.

Semper Fi!!

[jo1753]

Originally posted by BHABIT
Sgtj...

It has always been my opinion that we should not pass along problems... I respect the patience that you have or had and the ability to overlook the previous problems that your remedial recruits had. However I have never believed in passing problem recruits down the line.

Semper Fi!!

Gunny....... I like that way of thinking... To bad some of Drill Instructors don't.

When I went thru boot.........our Senior had about the same school of thought...... Where some Drill Instructors might send a kid to a motivation plt. twice. This Senior would send his kids there three times. If he felt that would do the job.

Instead of passing them off on some other Drill Instructor. Or kicking them out of training all together.

Some might laugh at this next part..........But it took me over 9 mo's to finally get off the island wearing the uniform. I owe alot to the Drill Instructors.

I had an extreme amount of problems with ( stress fractors ) in both legs. Which led me to go into and out of training alot. I was offered many-a-discharges during that period. But I told myself till the time comes...and they force feed me a medical.......I'm not taking one...... Thats not why I came here in the 1st place.

Most recruits I started out with were long into their schooling by the time I left the island. But I am proud to say when I graduated I was our platoon guide. And I feel I owe most of that to the few Drill Instructors........who seen something within myself..that maybe I didn't even see..............Semper-Fi

God Bless the Corps.

[yellowwing]

I was offered many-a-discharges during that period. But I told myself till the time comes...and they force feed me a medical.......I'm not taking one...... Thats not why I came here in the 1st place.
That is oustanding motivation. Never quit, never give up!

Semper Fi! :marine:

[jo1753]

thanks Wing..........Semper-Fi

God Bless the Corps

[P. M. SHEEHAN]

As far as I know, and this is based on VA info, he is not entitled to any benefits, including a military burial. There is an active duty element required here. I'm told that most reservists, unless called to active duty or do a reserve career and retire, are also excluded.
I was always under the impression that a recruit does not earn the title of "Marine" until he graduates. I"m further informed that if a recruit is sent home, for any reason, it's under a "separation discharge" and no other .
Getting back to the burial question, I just checked this out because my husband would like to be buried some day in the National Cemetary in Beaufort, S.C. and wanted to have everything in order.
I feel sorry for the young man who died, but I also feel sorry for his Senior D.I. and four others who have been "grounded" pending investigation. The D.I. should have recognized that this recruit was not motivated and trainable, and should have gone to his XO requesting that the kid be sent home and that would have been the end of it. All of you, both young and old, know that the pressures placed upon a D.I. are more than intense. There's fierce competition between platoons and other D.I.'s. A D.I. does not like to have a "wash out" in his platoon because he can catch a lot of ribbing over it. Maybe this is why this recruit wasn't reccomended for separation.

[marinecorpsvet]

What goes on at Parris Island, stays at Parris Island

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

Since this was revived, I may as well talk about it.

The recruit was not "hit". It is known to all recruits that you do not come within an arm's length of a DI. That is their personal space, and you do not invade it. To do so will often be seen as aggressive behavior by a recruit. The recruit nearly walked into the DI and was pushed away with his forearm. It wasn't that big of a deal. I remember when this happened, but I don't remember what happened to the DI. I am afraid that it wasn't good.

[Integrity57]

I think this thead needs to be shut down, that recruit died two years ago and the issue has since faded away, there is no reason to pick at old scars. I'm sure his family grieved and moved on and I think we should move on and forget about this. It is not progressive to be discussing matters from two years ago, especially matters such as this.

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

I disagree. When things go wrong in boot camp it is important to remember what happened and learn from our mistakes. For example, new rules were put into place at the pool to ensure that nothing like that happened again. I've looked, and the DIs were not charged. It was a tragic accident, and nothing criminal on the part of the drill instructors.

[Integrity57]

I agree 100% with you that it was tragic and that we learn from our mistakes but I think it's pointless whether to argue if the DI's were innocent or guilty, which is what alot of folks are going to do when they see this thread. And the only way I could see any DI being guilty in this matter was if he was holding the recruit's head under water, which isn't the case here. I just don't want to see another thread with 6 or more pages of pointless arguing over an issue that has already been resolved cluttering the forum.

[crazymjb]

While it is good that the pool was made a safer environment, it urks me when I hear civilians(so that would include myself) saying what is wrong and what is right. My biggest thing would be people being so concerned with "recruits rights," striking a recruit is terrible (etc) that they fail to see the bigger picture. The Military has a way to do things. Outside the realm of actual negligence and abuse, it is not the publics place to say how recruits can be treated. In my eyes anyway, the bottom line is they are preparing for war. If that means being bruised or uncomfortable to make them in tip top shape, that is ok, beats the hell out of being dead.

All things considered I am pretty pampered. Getting spanked would have worked better than "sitting on the steps" for me. I have never been physically put in my place, and I can outscream my father. Boot camp is going to be a huge shock for me most likely. But I don't care what they do to me as long as it makes me a Marine.

Mike

[SlingerDun]

I think this thead needs to be shut downWhat we got here the morality police?that recruit died two years ago and the issue has since faded away,apparently it was lurking just under the surface and has bobbed to the top, (no pun intended) evident by the passionate postings. there is no reason to pick at old scarsI differ, old scars are historical markers, reminders of mistakes and accomplishments, it is human nature to pick and reflect on old scars, thats why they dont go away.It is not progressive to be discussing matters from two years ago, especially matters such as this.The battle for Fallujah also happened over 2 years ago and has now resurfaced on CNN, plenty of scars and lives lost. Should the public and the Marine Corps forget about it, bury it?I think this thread should be shut down.....I just don't want to see another thread with 6 or more pages of pointless arguing over an issue that has already been resolved cluttering the forumPerhaps there is a moderator position open for you? If not close your eyes maybe this thread will go away, if you cant take the heat stay out the kitchen. Better yet how about you cease with suggesting what American Marines and Veterans may or may not discuss on Public forums.

Regards,

--->Dave Mims

[davblay]

Well it seems that we are not digging up bones here, but we are actually starting up a new thread within one. Having said that, what happens in Boot Camp should stay in Boot Camp. Stirring up a two year old incident is not a way to start a new discussion. This country has always had the cry babies that think that they know better how to train our Marines, and other branches, yet they have never served in any branch themself! Funny how a few can get the attention of soooo many, ain't it? These people think inside the box because they have neer been inside one! Make sense?

I would ask that if any mods are reading this to lock it down, on this thread anyways!

[crazymjb]

In terms of outside perspective, everyone I have talked to says the atmosphere takes a major turn when any press is there. They all said they prefer it without press, but than again that is a hindsight view.

Mike

[yellowwing]

Relax Poolees.

The Marine Corps has already handled this. If any of you poolees have questions about SwimQual start a new thread. Offering evaluations on Marine Training is not helpful.