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KlingonOpera
01-18-05, 03:49 AM
Howdy yall. Guess I should introduce myself as this is my first post - been lurking for a few months and gotten a lot of good information so that's why I'm bringing my question here. It's a little sensitive? maybe embarassing I dunno but what the heck. Let me try to sum the situation up as concisely as possible.

Last month I enlisted in the Marine Corps. Best day of 2004 signing the contract, hands down. It'd been on my mind for a long time but when it came down to it I walked into the recruiter's office on Monday and was headed to MEPS on Tuesday. Things looked up, I got a 91 on the practice ASVAB, was contracted as an E-2, it was 'open' but with a recommendation for infantry like I'd requested, all in all couldn't have been happier with the process. Even got a slice of pepperoni pizza! They know how to reel em in huh...

Not that they need to. Sorry if being flippant is disrespectful or anything. I'm new. What impressed me the most was that the recruiter repeated several times "The Marine Corp doesn't need you, but we'd be glad to have you." Which sticks out to me for a couple reasons but most imortantly for their high standards. Which is what attracted me in the first place. But is also sorta my pickle...

Not long after I got to MEPS, waiting around to take the ASVAB, I was called in to the liason Sargeant's office to have a picture taken of my tattoo. Ok now I'm finally getting to the point and thanks for bearing with me. Of course in the pre-screening it had come up, and I'd shown the recruiter it in his office the first day, and nothing was made of it. It's a big black mess on my upper right arm, under any shirt sleeve, just to be clear. I also told him up front that it was a logo of a old punk band, again no problem he said. At MEPS they went through the same thing, took a picture, checked to see if my hand could cover it (it could - didn't quite understand this part) and took a picture of that too, and asked me a few questions about it. Said the Marines were stricter on tattoos nowadays. I told them everything they wanted to know and all was well.

For like fifteen minutes. The Sargeant called me back in and now my recruiter was also present and they told me that they had looked the band up on the internet (! didn't see that one coming) and found it objectionable. Later I learned that it was the C/O who had made the decision. Everyone in the room looked pretty disappointed. I was pretty shocked dejected whatever and almost lost my **** when they suggested I try the Navy! It was a hard ride back home and I felt like a jerk for wasting my recruiter's time (although the trip wasn't a waste for him, so at least I wasn't a total a-hole).

Moving along, and sorry this is taking so long to tell but in my mind it's still quite fresh, on our way out my recruiter bumped into an Officer Selection Officer he knows and mentioned my situation to him and asked his advice. He said to do some research and prepare a written statement. Good advice, took it gladly. It was nice to know my recruiter still had interest in me and Lord knows I still want to be a Marine. So as soon as I got home that night I started working on it, took some time to make sure it sounded nice and then sent it off around Christmas. Busy time so I wasn't expecting much action on it. After New Years I stopped back in the sub-station (I'd moved things upstate to my ma's in anticipation of my departure - bit premature I guess which has only made this mess harder) to check on things. The NCOIC who'd taken me in wasn't there but the other Sargeant with whom I'd first spoken was. He said they'd passed on my letter to a Gunny who "had a lot of pull" with the C/O, who happens to be "a real hard***," but that the Gunny "liked what he saw." That's what he told me. Seemed upbeat about it. A week later I also forwarded them a news item I picked up on the wires about a punk band brought over by the USO playing for troops in Iraq and Kuwait. Made sure to use the version written on the USO's website. So I think I've made my case well enough, but still I'm left wondering.

Been calling the sub-station and cell phones several times a week but keep getting voicemail. I'm starting to get worried because it seems like the longer this goes on the less likely anything will happen. Just spinning my wheels, trying do something useful like memorize the Orders of a Sentry but getting sort of anxious about the future. I sorta expected the wheels to turn slowly but not knowing's the worst, especially when like a month ago I was being hotshotted into a January poolee class! Emotional rollercoaster.

Ok finally here's the part I need serious advice on, although please anything you want to comment on I could use the help. My mom works in a police station with a lot of former military folks and everyone she's mentioned the issue to (can't keep moms from talking) has said "Write to your congressman! They'll fix it! That's what they're for." I don't know about that. On one hand it sure would be nice to have this whole mess just magically straightened out. On the other it seems like a total a-hole move and one that could just make another mess. The NCOIC and other Sargeant at my local sub-station have been absolutely awesome to me and I don't see how that wouldn't come back on them somehow. But I don't even know how this stuff works. I certainly wouldn't go behind their backs to write this letter, that doesn't seem right at all. On the other hand I can't even get a hold of them! (I'll try again in the morning.) And my congressman is a powerful Republican. Scary stuff!

So what should I do? Anyone go through anything similar? Anyone work in this area and can offer some encouraging words? What's worst about my situation is that it's something totally preventable. If I had a time machine. Teenagers let this be a lesson to you - your body is a temple! Think harder about that stuff and don't do like this sixteen y/o did. If'd you'd like I can email you the statement I wrote, it's nice little piece of work (ha!) and might make this clearer, could use feedback on how I've proceeded so far too. Said about as much as is prudent (I hope - if not there's an edit button right? I'd look twice but it's late). Thanks so much for reading all that, suppose it wasn't very concise after all. And if you're wondering why this post was made at 3:40 am I guess you can say I'm losing sleep over it!

KlingonOpera
01-18-05, 03:52 AM
man that looks even longer than it felt typing... shoulda slept on it. sorry!

Sgtj
01-18-05, 04:48 AM
KlingonOpera,

What was the name of the rock band?

I wouldn't feel down about the recruiters, they will do everything they can to get you in the Corps if you shown them you want to be in. Sometimes their hands just get tied by the CO. You seem like a very intelligent young man, I would try going to the RS in person. Have you ever thought about getting the tattoo removed, not sure that would change things, since the Marines see it as a judgment call but you might want to ask that as well. Also remember your rights as an American which so many on this website have fought to protect. I wouldn't be quick to write the congressmen, but I would also do what it takes to get in the Marines. However, I would draft that letter in the Recruiters office, after you have told them about it. I'm not sure what your tattoo is of, but there must be something significant about it. Keep your post up on the board; there are some former recruiters here that will be able to really help you. Meanwhile stay motivated on your goal.

Sgt J

schoolcircle
01-18-05, 09:03 AM
KlingonOpera,

I find it hard to believe that your recruiter could not get a waiver for this. Almost everything is waiver able. Take Sgt j's advice. Draft a letter to your congressman and show it to the recruiter tell them you will be sending it on a specific date and follow through if the recruiter chain of command doesn't. I suspect you want to be a Marine not make friends. The fact that you hammered out that post shows you have dedication. We have all done things in our past we are not proud probably even your recruiter has some pre-USMC tattoos his uniform is covering up.

Keep us informed of your plight.

Namvet67
01-18-05, 10:27 AM
How about getting a good tatoo artist to put a big eagle over it. Just don't put anything about the Marines on your body until you earn the title.

yellowwing
01-18-05, 12:01 PM
Good article on tattoo removal FAQs (http://tattoo.about.com/od/tatremoval/a/tatremoval.htm).

Pel
01-18-05, 12:48 PM
Id take a look at that article that yellowing posted,

Right now there just holding the tatoo against you right? thats the only problem? Not what it symbolizes? Cause if the band is racist or anything maybe thats what is holding things back instead of the matter of the tatoo itself.

Pel

LivinSoFree
01-18-05, 04:41 PM
Side note, while this really shouldn't be an issue unless the band carries racial or other "unacceptable" connotations, the Corps IS cracking down on ink. Seems Higher believes it doesn't present a Professional Military Appearance (especially on officers, who cannot have any ink showing in the PT uniform). This is one of the few reasons why I haven't gotten a moto tat myself. Sure, it'd be cool, but it's not worth jeopardizing my career for it.

GunnyL
01-18-05, 05:27 PM
Post a picture of the Tattoo so we can get a look at it and I'll tell you what you need to do to make it enlistable. I am taking your word that the only disqualification you had was the Tattoo. Tattoo's can be changed! But it's going to have to be a permanent change.

GunnyL

KlingonOpera
01-18-05, 06:09 PM
Thanks all for responding. I don't have any family from the service so this really is a big help.

The tattoo is the only thing holding me up. I was told the objection to the tattoo was because of the 'content,' it's a meaningless symbol other than its representation of the band. It's a British group and apparently they were active in protesting the Falklands War back in the 80's and that's what the fuss is about. It's not racist but they seem to think it's 'political.' Which I know could be a big problem, the Marine Corps can't have any negative associations.

But in my statement I tried to frame it pretty delicately, and did some research like I was told to, and think I addressed the issues raised well enough. Not that it's my call. What concerns me most is that, since it's such an obscure tattoo, when the liason Sargeant went to look it up he probably found a bunch of angsty teenage geocities websites about it. When I was in his office I saw a little file already started on it and thought to myself "Oh no, where did they get this crap." For my part I made sure to explain it as best I could, even found an old magazine article where the singer renounces his old views, etc. Maybe I should just post the statement, it's kinda complicated.

The other thing is that I mean, the USO paid to bring another band to come over and sing "Anarchy Burger - Hold the Government" so what's the big deal? It's all silly stuff. And I know another guy from my hometown who went in with a straightedge tattoo, another loaded design. Know for a fact I wouldn't be the only person who's into this stuff. That was four years ago though. The liason Sargeant in his explanation said something about a guy they DQ'ed because of a gang tattoo. That makes me think they were wildly misinterpreting this thing. Just trying to restore perspective at this point.

About removal, I mentioned in my statement I don't think I can afford that (and if I can ever avoid having lasers shot at me I'll always take that!), but I did make it clear to them I'd have it covered up if they want. That'd be easy enough, can even have a friend do it for free. Don't know how to post a picture but it's basically just round and black, geometric like, could be filled in to look like a big black dot. And still fit under a sleeve. That's no problem to me at all as earning the title is way more important to me. Discussed that with the OSO my recruiter and I bumped into and he said not to do anything on my own first though.

Soooo drafting the letter WITH my recruiter sounds like a good idea. I gave them a rough draft of the first statement I wrote too to look over, although I didn't really get any feedback on it because we've been so out of touch. Called again this afternoon, voicemail! Arrgh.

Thanks so much for the advice. Will keep yall updated.

CAR
01-18-05, 07:00 PM
Sorry to hear that Klingon,
Sounds like your recruiters want you in. Stay motivated as best you can and be prepared to jump the hoops. I would heed the advice of the others and not go the route of writing to your congressman just yet. Let the recruiter work for you, if there is a way to get it done and your worth the effort the recruiter will bust his hump to get it done. Last thing you want to do is go behind the recruiters back. Things work out.

Hurry up and wait.... get used to it. Good luck

TRLewis
01-18-05, 07:16 PM
Mark that thing out, it would be the quickest route I waited on my senators for 2 months before they got to me, and by that time the army was done dragging their feet.

I called up my artist and he said that $50 and in black he would mark out anything smaller than a hand. I told him just to destroy it or have fun with it and see what he could do.

KlingonOpera
01-20-05, 11:10 PM
Talked to my recruiter today! For twenty seconds. Dang they are the busy ones. He hasn't heard anything back yet and I didn't even get to run my idea by him. Shoot.

HardJedi
01-21-05, 12:12 AM
i notice you told us ABOUT the band, but not it's NAME, what is the NAME of the band?

and your friend had a straightedge tattoo? a tatto symbolizing giving up drugs, booze and promiscuous lifestyles?

snipowsky
01-21-05, 06:54 AM
Hell I got a "drug" waiver for smoking marijuana before I served in the Marines. Like Bill Clinton, "I liked it, but I didn't inhale." So if I can get a waiver for this, you should get a waiver for a tattoo. Unless this tat has a nazi swastika in it or something a commie would wear. This whole tattoo deal is trivial. It's not like it's a Marine Corps ****bird on your shoulder for God's sake. Which by the way I did get when I was in the Marine Corps and still have to this very day. : )

Can't you just get it removed?

Don't give up the fight to get in the Marines if you want it bad enough. If not, just give up! The Marines don't like quitters! So fight!

Namvet67
01-21-05, 09:29 AM
Tats were an issue even when I was in back in the 60s...I was told not to get one if I was planning on becoming a officer...which I considered at one point..so I didn't get the Tat while I was in..just in case I changed my mind. I've got one now(left shoulder)...bulldog USMC , which I proudly show off on occasion. I've had for 15 years now and it's starting to fade a little. May need a touch up. Semper Fi

Koble_USMC
01-21-05, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by LivinSoFree
Side note, while this really shouldn't be an issue unless the band carries racial or other "unacceptable" connotations, the Corps IS cracking down on ink. Seems Higher believes it doesn't present a Professional Military Appearance (especially on officers, who cannot have any ink showing in the PT uniform). This is one of the few reasons why I haven't gotten a moto tat myself. Sure, it'd be cool, but it's not worth jeopardizing my career for it.

This is definently true. I had a friend who had went through OCS and was at TBS only to be shown the hatch because he had 'too much ink for an officer'. He had a full vest, but couldnt understand why they wouldnt let him stay. Seems kinda sh*ty if you ask me, but he knew they were cracking down before he got it, so its his fault too.


LT

HardJedi
01-21-05, 10:40 AM
SEE? let me ask you Marines something, do you REALLY give a rats fart if the guy next to you in a fox hole has a tattoo visible? I mean COME ONE! does the man have integrity? Can he physically handle the load? Can the SOB SHOOT?


Apparently, now it is more important to look pretty than to have hte heart, desire, guts and motivation.

what a crock of BS!

Sgtj
01-21-05, 11:15 AM
Yeah I guess I agree with you on that front HardJedi. I have mixed feeling on all of this as well. I myself have a tattoo, right arm, scull with USMC in its mouth. I regret getting the tatoo, but I'm proud about what it symbolizes, well at least the USMC anyway. My wife doesn't like it much, not because its a tattoo but because of the mean looking scull and now I feel bad anytime we are with our family and I take off my shirt. (Worried about the small kids). Anyway, point being tatoos shouldn't be the issue, the man himself should be the focus. If he demonstrates the ability to be a Marine and can with stand the load then he should be allowed in. For anyone thinking of getting a tattoo think long and hard. It cost nearly 50 times the amount of a tattoo to get it removed.

Namvet67
01-21-05, 11:40 AM
I've met lots of people that had tattoos removed...but I never met anyone that had a Marine tat removed!

KlingonOpera
01-22-05, 01:57 AM
HardJedi- the name's Crass. Sorry for the oversight. It's seriously embarassing though. Remember I was sixteen! Pretty girl I was after then had something similar.

On yellowwing's advice I've made arrangements to go ahead and get the darn thing blacked in. No way am I givin up that easy. Can have it done same city that my MEPS is in. I don't know if they want me on deck first or what but I'll keep bugging them and make sure they know what's going on.

Thanks once again

KlingonOpera
01-22-05, 02:00 AM
oh and also

<i> and your friend had a straightedge tattoo? a tatto symbolizing giving up drugs, booze and promiscuous lifestyles? </i>

it threw me because some cities have designated SxE as a gang, why I mentioned it

snipowsky
01-22-05, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by HardJedi
SEE? let me ask you Marines something, do you REALLY give a rats fart if the guy next to you in a fox hole has a tattoo visible? I mean COME ONE! does the man have integrity? Can he physically handle the load? Can the SOB SHOOT?


Apparently, now it is more important to look pretty than to have hte heart, desire, guts and motivation.

what a crock of BS!

I second that! As long as he's a rifle expert with honor, courage and commitment. That's all that matters to me.

AshleyMS
01-26-05, 03:23 PM
When I joined I had a hard time getting in because of a tattoo that I have on my left calf. I am a female so it was a big thing because there were times that we had to wear the skirts and it didnt look "professional", I had to get a waiver for that! Women arent suppose to have tattoos where they can be visable in uniform, yes men too but men dont have to wear skirts either. I still have it and when I got done with boot and everything I had a USMC put on, so now I not only have the rose but USMC wrote right through the tat. Just stay at it and you will be fine, there are ways of working and there are always loops in the system so dont give up!

Namvet67
01-26-05, 03:48 PM
AshleyMS...I bet the guys give you a hard time about your tat, don't they?

AshleyMS
01-26-05, 09:24 PM
I have had some men give me a hard time about it, they thought that it wasnt "girly" enough!! Can you believe that, wasnt girly enough....sorry guys Im not getting something like a butterfly sitting on a sunflower. Its nice and isnt "manly" so whats the problem....hey I have the right to put Chesty on my body if I want to...I actually joked with a friend of mine that I was going to get the name Chesty wrote on one of my breasts...lol...never did though..Semper Fi