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thedrifter
01-10-05, 10:15 PM
Shooter identified as US Marine

By PATRICK GIBLIN
BEE STAFF WRITER


Last Updated: January 10, 2005, 07:18:13 PM PST


CERES — A United States Marine shot two police officers, one fatally, Sunday night. In a second gun battle three hours later, officers shot and killed the suspect.
Ceres Police Sgt. Howard Stevenson died from his injuries at an area hospital, a spokesman for the Stanislaus County Sheriff's Department said this morning.

Officer Sam Ryno was listed in critical condition at an area hospital Monday morning. Both men had been shot several times with an automatic rifle.

Three hours after the shooting, police shot and killed the suspect when they found him behind a nearby home. Police said Monday that the 19-year-old Modesto man, reported absent without leave from Camp Pendleton Saturday night, had served in Iraq and did not want to return.

The officers responded to a call made by an employee at George's Liquors on Caswell Avenue at 8:07 p.m. Sunday. The employee told emergency dispatchers that a man holding a rifle and acting crazy had just left the store and was walking down the street.

Gunfire erupted shortly after police arrived. Both officers had been shot several times, Modesto police spokesman Rick Applegate said late Sunday night. The officers also exchanged gunfire with the suspect before he fled.

Witnesses told police the suspect ducked into a home on Caswell Avenue about two blocks from the liquor store. Officers from the Ceres, Modesto, Turlock and Newman police departments as well as the Stanislaus and Merced Sheriff's offices and the California Highway Patrol responded.

Nearly one square mile of the city's roads were closed as a California Highway Patrol helicopter hovered overhead and police officers and SWAT teams took positions around the home.

Police officers shot out street lights to diminish the suspects vision, Applegate said.

"We can't have a city employee turn off the lights because in order to do that, he would have put himself in harm's way and in the line of fire of the suspect," he said Sunday night.

At first, residents in the area were told to lock their doors and turn off their lights. Then about 10 p.m., officers began evacuating homes.

At about 11:30 p.m., the suspect was spotted behind the home. Applegate said the suspect "initiated a gunfight."

The suspect was shot in the alley. His name or condition were not available early this morning.

Both officers have been members of the Ceres police department for several years.

The streets around the area of both shootings were still closed today.

Parents of students at Caswell Elementary School, one block north of the shooting, were told to drop their children off in front of the school Monday morning.

Bee staff writer Patrick Giblin can be reached at 578-2347 or pgiblin@modbee.com.

http://www.modbee.com/local/story/9745305p-10612066c.html

Ellie

JAG5150
01-11-05, 09:29 AM
This kind of chaps my hide, whenever a Marine does something it is all over the news. You never hear former airforce shoots and kills 3 (maybe because the airforce can't shoot) or any other branch unless they were with a specialized unit. Whenever a Marine does something, the media is ready to jump all over it.



Marine jaywalks across down town San Diego.


oh and in other news Mount St. Helens blew and killed 10,000.

Namvet67
01-11-05, 10:03 AM
Remember the University of Texas in Austin story. The Marine sniper in the tower. You are right JAG5150...It's the trained killer theory...no on 2nd thought..it's not a theory, it's a fact!

Timber
01-11-05, 10:06 AM
Same thought JAG, Here every time something wrong happens around here the paper and tv news make it a point to ensure eveybody knows it was a Marine or sailor. The only time someones occupation is given is when the person is military, PD or Fire-Rescue.

My question is, Where was this Marine's support system? No one in his command or for that fact his friends noticed that he was suffering or had any sign/symptoms PTSD.

Just my thought

al20852
01-11-05, 10:09 AM
Reminds me of the scene at the rifle range in Full Metal Jacket. Sgt asks the trainees what Lee Harvey Oswald and the Texas Tower sniper had in common (I think there may have been one more example) and the answer is that they were Marine Corps marksmen. Sad but true.

My experience has been that, over the years, when someone commits a particularly evil deed and they are an ex-Marine, the papers and television usually note that they are an ex-Marine. They never note that they are ex Army, or Air Force, or Navy. I've never been real clear in my own mind whether I should be insulted by this or not. Certainy being a former Marine is not all that relevant to some murder case, but on the other hand its clear that the media places an importance on it far beyond that whichis place on being in one of the other branches of service.

Namvet67
01-11-05, 10:13 AM
No doubt about that Captain...we got a label, but we earned it and the whole world knows about it...good/bad..don't matter!

garryh123
01-11-05, 10:17 AM
A Marine who was discharged due to mental problems shot and killed at least 4 people here at a concert....they made a big deal out of the fact that he was a Marine.

jinelson
01-11-05, 10:22 AM
Yeah JAG5150 it makes me mad too. This happened very close to where I live and man did the local television news give it air time. The reason it was such a big thing to the news guys was they somehow got a hold of the survailance tape and aired the scene over and over. Here's a link to the local paper in Ceres, CA.:
http://www.modbee.com/local/story/9750300p-10616529c.html
al20852 brings up a good point that has often made me wonder also.

Jim

JAG5150
01-11-05, 10:26 AM
Let the media pump up the Corps, sometimes it is good to have that reputation (fact or fiction) there is always that ominious haze around the Marine Corps. When have you ever heard some young kid say, "I'm going to join the army, navy, airforce" and somebody says, are you crazy?
Never, Let the same kid say, "I'm going to join the Marine Corps", everybody says are you crazy.
Yes on second thought we are all a little touched in the head but it is because of men and women like us that this country lives the way that it does.

If you love your freedom thank a vet, if that vet is a Marine, kiss his/her feet and grovel in their presence.

al20852
01-11-05, 10:35 AM
JAG, I agree with you. I have to admit that deep down inside when I see that scene in Full Metal Jacket part of me is filled with pride at the rifle training given in basic. Part of me is embarrassed for feeling that way. But bottom line is that the only reason that the fact that someone is an ex-Marine is mentioned in circumstances that don't make sense to us ex-Marines is that the media recognizes the special place Marines have in our society. They are in awe of us, and understand that a Marine is a whole different thing from one of the other services.

And that special place in the minds of America may be one of the only thing that keeps the Marine Corps from disappearing. As long as America and most of the power structure sees as as something unique and special, those who call for the Marine Corps to be folded into the Army will fail.

Of course, the fact that every time there is a crisis in the world and the Marines get there days or weeks ahead of the Army doesn't hurt either.

JAG5150
01-11-05, 10:40 AM
Not only that Skipper but the rest of the world knows about the U.S.M.C. and don't want to be on the recieving end of one of our infamous a$$ kickins. The Marines are mystical creatures, kind of like bigfoot.

Oh, I believe, I saw a marine once. LOL

USMC-FO
01-11-05, 10:47 AM
What troubles me is that, apparently, this guy wigged out and shot the two cops as a way to skate on going back to Iraq. That sucks ! Course he is gone now too..so you have to wonder what the point was. It is clearly a tragedy.

I am not particularly mad or annoyed by the comment on his being a Marine. Mainly because it has become a common expectation to mention the service link and we--Marines--have always been expected to be a bit daft and are all "killers" anyway.

I actually appreciate the "born again hard" image. It is a shame though that this event unfolded as it did.

Namvet67
01-11-05, 10:49 AM
Captain...The only ex-Marines are those with less than Honorable discharges...at least that is what I was taught by my DI in bootcamp...I believed him then and I still do today. I did refer to...

DSchmitke
01-11-05, 11:52 AM
Have to agree with JAG on his statement.

al20852
01-11-05, 11:56 AM
Gbudd, of course you are right. But invariably the media calls then "ex-Marines" or "former marine." Once a Marine, always a Marine is probably a concept only Marines and their families really understand.

Namvet67
01-11-05, 12:26 PM
Can the media get anything right? Marines and family for sure. Ex-wife...nope!

JAG5150
01-11-05, 01:30 PM
Simple fact of the matter is this, whenever a Marine is in the media 9 times out of 10 it is for negative reasons. If a Marine was walking by a burning house and rushed in and saved a small child, the headlines would read, "Man saves child from certain death in house fire". But let that same Marine do something negative and the media is all over it, "Marine arrested in domestic dispute".

How many other branches of the service do so many charitable events like Toys for Tots for example. The many honorable things that the Marines do are rarely if ever publicized. I guess that showing our Beloved Marine Corps in a positive light does not sell papers or bring in the viewers. The media needs to pull their heads out of their a$$es and portray the Marine Corps for what they are and not the monsters that the media wants us to be.

bobpage
01-11-05, 03:53 PM
Gotta chime in Leathernecks........we did it right here in SoCal at FOX. Make no mistake, he IS or WAS a Marine. But that was not highlighted by us as much as the fact that this misguided young man thought he could escape a tour in Iraq by dying (?)at the hands of the cops. What was he thinking? I cannot change all of the media, but I am trying one at a time.

jinelson
01-11-05, 04:51 PM
I thank you for what your trying to do Bob. Are they showing the survailance video down there as well? l I just dont know how the media got it before the police.

JAG5150
01-11-05, 04:56 PM
And the prize goes to the highest bidder.

bobpage
01-11-05, 05:52 PM
nope...we have stayed with info only.

Old Marine
01-12-05, 08:49 AM
The very sad thing is that this Marine, even if he was a UA Marine shot and killed peace officers. I do not think that he was trained to do that. I would guess he would have done the same thing whether he was a Marine or not. Things have really changed in the last thirty + years. Sad story indeed.

mrbsox
01-12-05, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by al20852
Gbudd, of course you are right. But invariably the media calls then "ex-Marines" or "former marine." Once a Marine, always a Marine is probably a concept only Marines and their families really understand.

Sir,
I've come to support the phrase

VETERAN Marine !!

Has a better ring to it, and 'former' still has the WAS concept attached.

As for the family REALLY understanding... I'm not sure.
The CO supports me in my love of Country and Corps, but will tell you that she doesn't always understand 'that Marine sh!t'. But don't let that mean that she doesn't respect, support, and even defend my feelings.
She just thinks it gets in the way sometimes.

Semper Fi :marine:

Namvet67
01-12-05, 09:58 AM
mrbsox...I'll have to agree with you about the family thing. They don't understand and can't understand the Marine in us...In my case...I have been told I go a little overboard at times....can't help it...and I'm not going to change...I've been a Marine for 39 years. VETERAN MARINE....I like it. Semper Fi

Osotogary
01-12-05, 10:45 AM
mrbsox,
".....doesn't always understand that Marine Corps sh!t."
Expanding on that quote. I get it as well even though I am not a Marine. I get it about my DOD son as well. I think I get it about my overt concern for the well-being of our Fighting Forces.
I have to admit that this topic takes a good part of my time and I can see where I should, perhaps, show a little bit more flexibility but needless to say I am reluctant to do so. Why? Simple. Two sons in harms way (which I will never forget) and other Americans in harms way. Enough said. Life goes on. How you feel about things are all personal decisions that we, individually, must make. You, gentlemen and Marines, make your decisions and I make mine ...and there may not be that much of a difference between us....except that you've all earned the Eagle, Globe and Anchor and I have not. Keep up the good work. You have all been trained and have learned well and this Country of ours is better for it.

Namvet67
01-12-05, 11:35 AM
And you fit right in here with us Gary...glad to have you on our team. Ok...I vote to make you a honorary osotogary Marine! Thanks for your vote of confidence.

thedrifter
01-12-05, 11:47 AM
AWOL Marine kills police officer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CERES
No clear motive in Marine's killing of police officer
Shooter's friends believe he suffered from combat stress

Meredith May, Matthew B. Stannard, Chronicle Staff Writers
Wednesday, January 12, 2005

The 19-year-old Marine's holiday wish now haunts his family and friends, who believe his reaction to the war may have played a role in his shooting Sunday night of two Ceres police officers, one of whom died. It also alarms military mental health experts, who say Raya may have been suffering from post- traumatic stress in the days before the incident, which ended when police shot him to death.

But more questions than answers remain for the Marine investigators working with police on the case, as well as those who served with Raya -- including one Marine who said that despite the stories of house-to-house combat Raya told his family, he had seen little or no fighting during his time in Iraq last year.

Homicide investigators said Raya apparently had been intent on dying at the hands of police when he went to a liquor store armed with a semiautomatic rifle.

"By the statements the suspect made at the scene, it was clear he wanted to die and take as many cops down as he could in the process," said Lt. Bill Heyne, lead investigator for the Stanislaus County Sheriff's Department. "This officer was executed."

He said that as Raya ran from police, he was telling residents, "Don't worry, you're a civilian. You won't get hurt."

Raya's relatives visited the Ceres police station Tuesday to pay their respects to Sgt. Howard "Howie" Stevenson, who lost his life when he responded to a 911 call from the liquor store.

Raya wounded Officer Sam Ryno and shot Stevenson twice in the head, killing him. Stevenson, 39, the first officer killed in the line of duty in Ceres, leaves behind a wife and two daughters, ages 19 and 13, and an 18-year- old son.

For Raya's friends and relatives left behind, it's hard to fathom why a teenager they said had never been in trouble with the law could turn so violent.

"It's awful what happened, and we don't want to make excuses because it's a double tragedy," said cousin Araceli Valdez, 23. "But we do know one thing. That man on the liquor store surveillance cameras wasn't our cousin. He wasn't Andy anymore."

Raya's lifelong friend Lalo Madrigal said Raya "just wasn't the same after the war -- he couldn't hold a conversation anymore."

Raya was eager to graduate from Ceres High School in 2003 so he could join the Marines, said his recruiter, Staff Sgt. Robert Tellez. He pegged Raya as a possible career Marine, based on his family support and his participation in Marine activities before he left for boot camp.

But when Raya returned to his family last fall, he was questioning the purpose of the war and encouraging his relatives to see Michael Moore's anti- war movie, "Fahrenheit 9/11," said his 24-year-old cousin, Alex Raya.

"He showed us pictures of this guy's hand hanging off," he said. "He told us about going into homes and shooting them up, and he said he wouldn't pull the trigger a lot because he didn't want to kill anyone."

At Thanksgiving, he told his family he had seen Marines commit suicide rather than continue fighting in Iraq.

"He kept saying it was a war that had no point, that it was all for oil, and it made no sense that we were after (Osama) bin Laden but went after Saddam Hussein instead," Alex Raya said.

Friends said Raya would stare into space during conversations or lock himself in his room and listen to CDs for hours. Once, they said, he fell asleep at a party, and when his friends shook him awake, he screamed at them and reached for a gun that wasn't there.

Relatives said Raya hadn't sought counseling. "We thought it was normal," said another cousin, Marisa Raya, 27. "I mean, how can you not see the things he saw and not be affected in your soul?"

Mental health experts said the behavior Raya's family described, including social withdrawal and nightmares, could have indicated that he was suffering from post-traumatic stress.

"He clearly needed to be assessed so it could be determined if he was in harm's way," said Fred Gusman, director of the National Center for Post- Traumatic Stress Disorder in Menlo Park, part of the Department of Veterans Affairs.

Studies have suggested at least 17 percent of returning Iraq war veterans experience symptoms of post-traumatic stress, Gusman said. He suggested the military and VA should do more to educate family members about the signs of combat stress, beginning long before the veteran returns home.

Another expert, Denver Mills, director of the Concord Vet Center, agreed that families should be educated. But he also said he was worried that the presumption of post-traumatic stress in Raya's case could lead to a presumption of violence and mental illness in all returning service members, as happened with his own generation returning from Vietnam.

"When people come back, they are going to have normal emotional reactions to doing what they did," Mills said. "That doesn't mean they're all going to have post-traumatic stress."

One of Raya's fellow Marines, speaking on condition that he not be named, also questioned whether Raya's actions were the result of combat stress.

While Raya recently transferred to the 2nd Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment, which experienced heavy casualties during the Fallujah offensive, he was in Iraq with a different unit and worked as a motor transportation officer, according to the Marines.

The Marine who served with Raya said that in that capacity, Raya had witnessed the occasional mortar round outside his base west of Ramadi but experienced little if any direct combat. The Marine said Raya lived in relative safety in an inner wall of a palace dubbed the "hole in the wall."

"Everybody, whenever you deploy, feels stress in different ways. For me to say he felt no stress would be ridiculous," the Marine said. But he noted that what Raya experienced did not compare to the intense house-to-house combat in Fallujah.

Raya returned to Camp Pendleton in San Diego County this month after telling family members he would be deployed back to Iraq in February. However, the Marines say his new unit is actually scheduled to go to Okinawa.

Memorial for slain sergeant

A candlelight vigil for slain Ceres police Sgt. Howard Stevenson will be held at 7 tonight at the Ceres High School stadium, 2320 Central Ave. A memorial fund has been set up at West America Bank along with an assistance fund for wounded Officer Sam Ryno. For information, call the bank at (209) 556- 1120.


Ellie

Old Marine
01-12-05, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by Osotogary
mrbsox,
".....doesn't always understand that Marine Corps sh!t."
Expanding on that quote. I get it as well even though I am not a Marine. I get it about my DOD son as well. I think I get it about my overt concern for the well-being of our Fighting Forces.
I have to admit that this topic takes a good part of my time and I can see where I should, perhaps, show a little bit more flexibility but needless to say I am reluctant to do so. Why? Simple. Two sons in harms way (which I will never forget) and other Americans in harms way. Enough said. Life goes on. How you feel about things are all personal decisions that we, individually, must make. You, gentlemen and Marines, make your decisions and I make mine ...and there may not be that much of a difference between us....except that you've all earned the Eagle, Globe and Anchor and I have not. Keep up the good work. You have all been trained and have learned well and this Country of ours is better for it.

I second that emotion.