Special forces opportunites for army vs marines vs navy

[PFCJon]

I've posted here once or twice for help with the decision I'm making. I am in college but feel it's a waste of time and money for my parents and that I haven't yet earned the privelage to sit on my ass and enjoy being a college student. I want to earn my education through service in the military (which I expect will be an educaton in its own way). I also want to better myself by learning discipline, honor and courage. My question is this: how do special forces opportunities vary between the services?

The marine recruiter I've been working with told me that the Navy has a program in which you can enlist with a gauranteed shot at going to BUDs or whatever the Seals do for indoc. My best friend growing up recently deployed after washing out of Ranger Indoc, but he said that he signed a contract gauranteeing him a shot at Spec Forces and though he failed to make it as a Ranger he is now with the Airborne and is considering applying for long range reconnaissance. That brings me to the Recon marines. I have learned through you guys here that you can now enlist as a 0321, battallion reconnaissance and, assuming you don't screw up in training, you will be a batallion recon marine at the end of your training.

I'm not looking for a career, signing bonuses, or a dental plan. I'm looking for a job that will kick my ass and render me a better person at the end of the day. My understanding is that the marines who serve with recon can apply for training for UDT, parachuting, and BUDs. I'm as fit and motivated as any civilian could hope to be, I just want to know what option would offer the most in terms of opportunity for elite service. Thanks guys-
Jon

[LivinSoFree]

Let's be clear on this: when you enlist for an active duty hitch, you can only guarantee your Occupational Field, which in this case would be an 03xx. What that means, is that you WILL be some sort of infantry, however, the Corps makes NO guarantees of ANY kind as to what particular flavor of Infantry you'll end up as. Though I'm not terribly well versed in the Recon/STA selection process, so far as I understand it, those billets are usually acquired following time spent as a "regular" type Infantry Marine, and usually through an invitational tryout/indoc which you may or may NOT be able to hack it through.

Do NOT join the Corps under the pretense of getting a particular job. If you decide to enlist in the Marine Corps, it'd better be because you want to be a MARINE, first and foremost. After that, it's all details.

- Meyer

[PFCJon]

thanks for the reply, I guess I had misunderstood how jobs are assigned in the corps. I won't be joining for any job in particular, as long as it's tough and infantry I'd be happy. I'd prefer to work in a small unit with more difficult and unconventional missions and methods, maybe I will simply have to try and prove myself as a grunt first.

[Sgtj]

I've never seen anyone get denied the chance to at least tryout. My buddy is currently with (Force)Recon. And thats how he got on board.

[GunnyL]

LininSoFree, don't be so quick to give advise about matters which you are not an expert. The Marine Corps did at one time have a Recon Option upon enlistment. It didn't guarantee you Recon, it guaranteed you the opportunity to go through Indoc Training if you were otherwise qualified at the end of SOI. You are going in for Infantry but you will go to Recon Indoc Training and upon completion of Recon Training you would go to Recon. Of course, the Marine Corps nor any other Service will guarantee you Special Operations Forces status, they simply guarantee you the option to try and prove yourself.
DepJon, There are Marine Corps Infrantry who go through Ranger School, they typically graduate in the Top 10% of Ranger School. If I'm not mistaken, any Infantry Marine at the Top of their Game can apply for Recon. They also take Communication, Engineers and other MOS's.
To know if the Marine Corps still has a Recon Option, you need to talk to your Recruiter. Recruiters are the experts in this area, as the Marine Corps' needs change and options change, your Recruiter has the latest information. I've been Retired for 3 years so the information available to me is outdated. Your Recruiter or better yet the NCOIC of the office will have the most up to date info.

Best of Luck to you!

GunnyL

[snipowsky]

And yes you can be guaranteed a certain billet in the 03 field. I signed up as an 0331 and that is what I got. Get your facts straight before you disinform others about an MOS field you obviously have no clue about Marine!

[Blindside8162]

Ive only heard of reservists being guaranteed a specific MOS. My recruiter told me when i signed up that they could only guarantee the field but not the MOS. Then again recruiters say alot.......

[snipowsky]

Recruiters sometimes lie...

[Namvet67]

My recruiter certainly did. I'm not a recruiter but I know several Marines that are...some are members here. They are the sales force of the Marines. It's their job to get you signed up. The Corps will take it from there. In my days, you could request a shot at recon and they took a look at any MOS (this was in Vietnam). Depjon...ask you questions and read the answers but these are only opinions from the members. Some are more qualified than others but get all the information you can then go make your own mind up. Semper Fi

[LivinSoFree]

Roger that, apparently I was under a misapprehension. The last I had been told was that despite whatever MOS you had orginally been promised, *actual* MOS assignments were now given at MCT, before the night land nav course, and at a similar juncture for oh-threes. This was from my 2nd hat, who had previously done a tour as an SOI instructor immediately prior to Drill Instructor duty. Guess things change quickly, thanks for the correction.

[GunnyL]

LivinSoFree, you were right to an extent. I was an 8412 (Career Recruiter). For the most part, when you enlist in the Marine Corps, you are guaranteed a Career Field as an example, (UH) Infantry, you know you are going to be an 03XX. When you get to OSI, you find out if you are going to be an 0311/0331/03?? and so on. For the Recon Option enlistment, regardless of your 03XX MOS you are going to get a shot at Reconnaisance Marine but you're not gauaranteed to succeed in training. If you wash out, you are assigned to an Infantry Battalion. (In the Navy, if you wash out of BUDS after enlisting for that guarantee, you know you are going to be jumping when you hear "Sweepers, Sweepers, man your brooms" over the intercom on a ship. You have to strike for a job later on when the opportunity arises. Until then you are going to be chipping paint, changing lite bulbs and sweeping and swabbing the deck.)
For Aviation, you are guaranteed Aviation Maintenance, whether you are going to be working on UH-1 Hueys, AH1W Cobra's or F-18 Hornets depends on how you excell in your basic schools and the needs of the Marine Corps and School seat availability at that particular time. The same goes for all other career fields, you sign up for Intelligence Linguist, you could be speaking Russian, Korean, Chinese or Arabic depending on your aptitude and the current needs of the Marine Corps.
But these change from year to year and your Recruiter is the most current source of that information. I would like to tell you that I know everything about Recruiting and I do for the time that I was in but things change and I am no longer in the loop on changes. That is why you will alway see me reference Manuals/Orders or refer you to the most current source of information. In this particular case, your local recruiter or more accurately the RSS NCOIC has the latest list of program availability.

Regards,

GunnyL

P.S. but if you're a really good recruiter, and you've done your job right, they just enlist for the opportunity to Earn the Title Marine, regardless of the Job! It's not what you do in the Corps, it's what you do with yourself while you're in the Corps and what you take away with you. I was a 1391/0151/0431/8411/8412 while I was in the Corps and I manage Computer Networks as a Civilian which isn't related to any of the MOS's that I held. It's the Leadership, Self-Discipline, Self-Developement and all the intangibles you get from being a Marine that will make you successful when you get out. If I had to do it all over again, the only thing I would change is that I would like to have added 03XX to that list of MOS's!

[MillRatUSMC]

Right now the 0321 Recon Marine will offer you a chance to get into the Recon battalions as a basic Recon Marine.
Force Recon is looking for Marines with some time in service, some time in Recon will be a bonus.
There no guarantee that an individal will passing the tests to get into Recon.
From my experience as a member of 1st and 3rd Recon Battalions, one has to be highly motivated to endure the hardships of been a Recon Marine.
In Vietnam, they had to endure a great deal of hardship.
As many books on Recon will atest to the bravery and valor of all those Recon Marines.
My advice would be first go in as an 0300 or a basic infantry man, than volunteer for the 0321 Basic Recon Marine, after that volunteer for Force Recon.

Semper Fidelis/Semper Fi
Ricardo

[LivinSoFree]

GunnyL,
Just as a strange coincidence, my recruiter decided to give me a call today. I mentioned this discussion to him briefly, he said wasn't aware of any current programs guaranteeing a shot at the recon indoc/tryout, but to quote him, he "wouldn't be surprised."

What you described sounds more like what I was thinking about, though I was unaware that a "direct-to-recon" option was available.

As always, thanks for the information.

- Meyer

[PFCJon]

Thanks for the replies everyone. "For the Recon Option enlistment, regardless of your 03XX MOS you are going to get a shot at Reconnaisance Marine but you're not gauaranteed to succeed in training." That's what I was looking for, just an opportunity to try. I make no assumptions and have no illusions of it being easy, if it was what would be the point?

[MillRatUSMC]

A little more information on MOS 0321

http://www.specialoperations.com/Images_Folder/library5/recon2.jpg


http://www.geocities.com/millrat_99/saddestday.html
God, how I remember the beach at Bellows Air Force Base!

To gain the MOS of 0321 Reconnaissance Marine, candidates must attend either BRC on the West Coast or ARS on the East Coast. The class is currently 3 months long. A Marine Recruiter can enlist any eligible Male into the 0321 MOS and guarantee a seat at one of these schools.

Requirements/Prerequisites

(1) Must have a GT score, of 105 or higher.

(2) Must possess a 1st class swimmer qualification.

(3) Must obtain a first class score on the Physical Fitness Test.

(4) Must have normal color vision, and near visual acuity per COMNAVMEDCOM.

(5) Must be a volunteer.

(6) Must complete Marine Rifleman Course or appropriate MOJT

(7) Assigned as a primary MOS to entry level Marines when certified by unit commanders, in coordination with MMEA, after attendance at the Basic Reconnaissance Course and followed by a necessary period of MOJT while in a reconnaissance billet. May be assigned as an AMOS-by commanders to Marines who volunteer from other MOSs under the following conditions. Volunteers from other MOSs may either attended Basic Reconnaissance Course or receive MOJT at the unit followed by a BRC Evaluation Team endorsement of training, and serve 6 months in a reconnaissance billet.

(8) Must be a U.S. citizen.

(9) Must be eligible for a secret clearance.
In the military, all classified information is divided into one of three categories:

CONFIDENTIAL: Applied to information or material the unauthorized disclosure of which could be reasonably expected to cause damage to the national security.

SECRET: Applied to information or material the unauthorized disclosure of which reasonably could be expected to cause serious damage to the national security.

TOP SECRET: Applied to information or material the unauthorized disclosure of which reasonably could be expected to cause exceptionally grave damage to the national security.

In addition to the above, some classified information is so sensitive that even the extra protection measures applied to Top Secret information are not sufficient. This information is known as "Sensitive Compartmented Information" (SCI) or Special Access Programs (SAP), and one needs special "SCI Access" or SAP approval to be given access to this information.

"For Official Use Only" is not a security classification. It is used to protect information covered under the Privacy Act, and other sensitive data.

(10) Must complete the Recon Screening Test.

Hope this helps on how to get into Recon, Battalion or Force Recon.
Main differerance, you have to have experience in Battalion Recon before you apply for Force Recon.

Semper Fidelis/Semper Fi
Ricardo

[BC22]

My experience with Recon, was that if a Marine was an 03XX upon reporting to Infantry Training Battalion they would be given the option of taking a Recon "screening" at the beginning to determine whether or not they would be qualified, and if they were they could get orders to Indoc once ITB was done. Similarly, 0621s (Field Radio Operators) have the option of taking the screening as well. My buddy did, and passed when he was at 29 Palms for FROC and he got orders to 2nd Recon Bn at the end of our course.

I don't know if that was helpful or not.