Untrainable Recruits?

[yellowwing]

I've mentioned before that when I was on RTR Mess Duty, we saw the recruits that were being processed out of training come through the chow line.

Some were out-right fat bodies, and some were just really gimped up with an injury.

But there were quite a few that looked okay, except for that shock and shame in their eyes.

Q: At one point does recycling to another training platoon become futile, and the recruit is drummed out?

If we can communicate this to some of these hopeful poolees, perhaps they can better prepare and avoid this.

I've PM'd a few current and former Drill Instructors on this question. They thought it was a great question for discussion.

Stay tuned for more....

[airframesguru]

Great question. There are two issues here. First, physically can they do it - more in the sense of getting hurt. If these guys prepare, then its a matter of bones breaking etc.

Secondly, its mental. This can be done. Maybee I am biased because I made it. I do think that if some one give a sh*t enough to try and cares enough to what it. It is totally achievable.

My 2 pennys worth (bad grammar and spelling for free)

Sempers,

[Toby M]

I remember being sent to motivation platoon on a Sunday for the entire day. Not because I was a fat body or untrainable-more due to an attitude problem. I have never cared for authority and I guess it showed. Motivation platoon inspired me to greater heights. Made me reach within myself...I was probably on the verge of being dropped and to this day, I thank my D.I.'s for seeing something in me and giving me another chance to prove I could hack it! I'v never looked back since...

[Sgtj]

I agree, good question. It is posts and discussion like this that will allow these young poolies the chance to inherit the mind set needed for vicotory.

I think you have 3 type recuits:

A-type: Knows what he/she is got themselves into and can see the end goal is sight. For these men and women bootcamp will be tough and it will change them but they will graduate. These are also the recruits that never walk around with there grape looking at the deck.

2nd Recruit: Thinks the Marine Corps is the best, but more then likely for the wrong reasons. This recruit won't take long to weed out. This is the same recruit that will write home like he is #1 on the island, even though he/she is not pulling there own weight. Will usually end up getting dropped back two or three cycles until they realize the big picture, and that is either smarten the hell up or pack your bags.

3rd Recruit: Go in moto, usally last until they get to the airport and have their first taste of reality. They want to quit before they even get pickup into a training platoon.

I'm not sure how to seperate these three or even pick them out at first, but I think just about anyone can be trained. However, not everyone can be one of us. Lets just face it. I truley believes God picks out his Marines before we are even born. I'm just glad I made the cut.

[Osotogary]

In some cases do recruits get out processed faster if it is decided that by keeping he or she in Service they will eventually cost more money, in terms of larger disability payments later on when he or she gets released later on during their enlistment? In other words, is it cheaper to out process the recruit at this early stage of training? I'm thinking that some decisions on wether a recruit remains in training or is released from Military Service is solely an economic one.

[Phantom Blooper]

I may be wrong,but, if memory serves me serves me a recruit must stay inn on active duty for a continuous 120 days before any benifits can be paid,for disabilities. I believe if a recruit is killed during training an insurance payment is made to the next of kin. Semper-Fi! Chuck Hall:marine:

[Osotogary]

Yes, I believe that you are in the Ball Park Phantom Blooper. That is what I am hedging towards. Instead of the possibility that the recruit will last the 120 days and then be released and draw disability payments, the recruit is released from Service before any benefits are allowable. In this sense, is the decision to relaease the recruit soley (?) economic?

[greensideout]

Originally posted by Osotogary
In some cases do recruits get out processed faster if it is decided that by keeping he or she in Service they will eventually cost more money, in terms of larger disability payments later on when he or she gets released later on during their enlistment? In other words, is it cheaper to out process the recruit at this early stage of training? I'm thinking that some decisions on wether a recruit remains in training or is released from Military Service is solely an economic one.

I don't think so. If you cut it, you're in. If you don't , you're out.

[Phantom Blooper]

I don't what the reg's or the US Code says,but I believe that if a recruit was hurt in training benifits are paid. I don't know if the 120 day rule applies,i.e. fall of tower,break back and paralized. If a pre-existing condition EPTE into bootcamp that can be proved by medical personell then the recruit is put into MRP(Med rehab Platoon) until he/she is administratively separated i.e. defective heart (not broken),physicals taken at AFEES are not a physical that is given with all the specialty tests. Semper-Fi! Chuck Hall:marine:

[greensideout]

I think that it takes 180 days to qual. (6 months)

We had an outstanding recruit in boot that had a plate in his knee, (Of course we did not know that at the time). After a few weeks he was gone. Did he fail in what he did, I don't know---(I was looking at the burr head in front of me). I never did see him do anything but achieve.

So, was it an economic out? I don't think so. It may have been more of a, "you are not going to last and we need a Marine that can do their part in the team".

[Abe's]

I cannot speak for those who have and are serving as D.I.'s, nor can I comment on the economic's of releasing recruits early. However, what I can comment on is my experiences as a recruiter. And I believe the recruit's experience and transition into becoming a Marine starts with his recruiter.
It is the recruiter's responsibility to find "quality" young men and women and then prep them as poolee's for their journey into recruit training.
Man, did I hate recruiting duty! All three years of it, but I can say this, I maintained a 2.1 avg and lost only one at MCRD, just one, to fraud of all things! He lied to me and it caught him at MCRD. And I finished successful, even with my first two fitreps as a Staff Sergeant adverse while on recruiting duty.
My atittude was simple, enlist those who wanted to be a Marine and who I figure would make damn good Marines. Don't B.S. them, give them what they wanted to see, a Marine.

:mad: Flashback to an assignment I did not like.

[Osotogary]

Terrific responses, Gentlemen , Rogues and Scholars (Marines is understood). Thanks a bunch.

[SuNmAN]

If you have heart, you will make it.

[ivalis]

used to be 180 days of active duty for bennies, that's why they made sure that reservists got out before then. that was 30 + years ago. don't have a clue what they do now.

[Blindside8162]

We had a guy in our platoon who was simply untrainable. He had no heart and no matter how hard he claimed to be, he fell out of every hike, couldn't pass the O- course and was horrible at COD. My senior finally dropped him in week six, then he got dropped from the following company in 2nd BN and they just sent him home.

[Wyoming]

Several years back, when I 1st stepped on the yellow footprints, there was no thought of NOT making the grade.

It was all during a bad time in our Countries history and there was no way anyone that I know of would have wanted to go home as a washout.

There was a 'motivational platoon', or something of some such name, and one march by it, seeing the ones needing the motivation, did more for us that all the PT in the world.

Maybe they were draftees, but I can't attest to the fact.

I can't see where any of us who willingly joined would have gone the 'untrainable' route.

Just my opinion.

[Old Marine]

When I was a DI it was during the Vietnam times and Robert McNamara Was Sec of Defence. In those days you put your whole platoon on the deck for graduation. We could not drop a single pvt. for any reason. We called them McNamara's Band. It was so bad the Depot was sending some pvts. to Midway Adult School In San Diego every day for half a day so they could learn to read and write. Needless to say they had to have gotten some help on their entrance tests to even get to Boot Camp, but recruiters had to make their quotas. Our platoons back in those days also consisted of 90/100 pvts and COD was a sight to see. The parade deck was so crowded that we consistently were running into other platoons and there were many fights because of this. All we could do was train them to the best of our ability and send them off to the Nam.

[Namvet67]

I agree with Old Marine..I've read all these posts and I know only what I saw in bootcamp in 1967. It was made very clear to us that you would stay in bootcamp until you or the Corps found a way to get you to graduation and off to Vietnam. There were several recruits in my platoon that spent over 6 months there and one almost a year. They just kept being sent off to fat mans platoon, motivation platoon or in some cases, corrective custody...then picked up by another platoon and start all over again. I often wonder what happened those poor souls. I know I would not a one of them on my fire team. That was the Marine Corps way in those days...do or die trying. I'm sure a lot of them did.