View Full Version : Soldier Questions Rumsfeld
I am absolutely aghast that the Army is screwing up this evolution more and more every day.
1. Abu G. Prison Abuse
2. Gitmo Prison Abuse
3. Rushing to award high level medals to those who deserve a swift kick in the rear.
4. Suing the Army over Stop-Loss
5. Publicly questioning / complaining to the Sec Def.
Have they no honor?
I said that earlier, and as the news keeps replaying it and replaying it, I have to wonder how come there are no Marines out there asking the Sec Def where the hell their armored humvee is.....
The troop that asked the secretary the question deserved a medal.
Rummy the dummy solicited questions, bout time somebody asked.
greensideout
12-08-04, 09:56 PM
Yep, good question---Where the hell IS their armored humvee?
Arlene Horton
12-08-04, 10:12 PM
Maybe Halliburton employees needed them.
hrscowboy
12-08-04, 10:34 PM
bottom line is that if anyone needs to leave The Bush administration it should be rumsfield. What a dumb ****. Its a shame that Colen Powell is not taking rumsfields position. Rumsfield needs to stay home and quit spending the Tax payers money for what he calls Morale Visits.. I cant think of any Veteran that cares for this lame brain....
yellowwing
12-08-04, 10:43 PM
He's the point man doing a very good job taking the heat.
hrscowboy
12-08-04, 10:47 PM
He wouldnt have lasted 3 minutes as my point man rest assured...
I'll answer my own question - because Marines have honor.
They don't need to bug the Sec Def for Armored Humvees. They have a war to fight. We have been fighting wars since 1775 without armored humvees... what they hell is all the hoopla now about them?
The troop that asked the secretary that question will probably get a medal - cause that's the Army way! HE's a moron that didn't have a clue as to what was asking for.
I spent over a decade in the Corps and was licensed on every type of humvee configuration imaginable. NO armored humvees were available. Reinforced deck plates - high tensile doors - ballistic rubber coatings....... keep dreaming!
It will come one day - and it should, but have some dignity and honor. Go to the battlefield and fight with what you have. Improvise and train. Train. Train some more. These kids today think that body armor and humvee armor and port-a-john armor is the key to their success. They will die in that armor with a false sense of security as soon as the insurgents figure out the threshold of that armor plating - which won't take long.
bobpage
12-09-04, 12:01 AM
An Army of one. Nuff said. In our news editorial meeting today here in Cali, one of the super leftists was reading the national story rundown and mentioned this. All in the room piped up and piled on. Now Rumsfield is no friend of mine, but I RESPECT the leadership of our military. Even when I had to salute the limp wristed draft dodger several times in the 90's.
I spoke up when they decided they would just pop into Oceanside and ask Marines what their opinions were. Have you heard any I asked. No. Because Marines have integrity and are TRAINED to fight. We have always had less and do more with that. I said it was an Army reserve/guard issue and they needed training and discipline. Before I could finish my statement, she blurted out "the Army deserves what the Marines have". Read that again. Ignorence is bliss. And you wonder why the media is left. Ignorant college kids like this who read blogs and chat room crap are the ones in the newsrooms of today. Thank GOD that I am in management and could re-direct this ill guided attempt to lump all of us with those undisciplined dog-faces. He did what he sees modeled by the Army leadership....oops, higher ups (don't want to put the word leadership in the wrong context, with Army), insubordination.
hrscowboy
12-09-04, 12:24 AM
hello if i remember right The Marine Corp gets what the army dont want or decides to get rid off. There were many times in nam that i welded 1 and 2 inch plate on duece and half trucks for the Corps and i was an airwinger. These trucks moved up and down highways all day long. welded twin 50s plates in the back of these trucks all so. It was nothing for me to be pulled off Zulu Company and go to The Motor Transport and weld on trucks because they had no welders at Mag 16 when i was there...
stodd241
12-09-04, 02:56 AM
I am hear, and it dont help. I have been making armor for my units hummers and everthing else, as soon as the army/marines get the manufactured armor, it goes on. I have seen so many different types of up armor its not even funney, but the bottom line is IT DONT HELP, Hummers, Duces, 5 tons all get destroyed by IED's weather or not they have up armor. The armor is not designed to take a direct hit from a IED 15 ft away. I remember when i first arrived hear, my unit did the same thing, look through the junk to find up armor, metal plates, and what ever we could use to get the job done. It is my belief YOU DO WHAT EVER YOU CAN TO ACCOMPLISH THE MISSION. so if it means fabrication of something you do it. I have just not made armor for my own unit, but other units as well, both army and marine. All you have to do is ask its all about team work over hear, and I have never turned anyone away who needed armor of some type, nor have i been turned away. SEMPER FI.
Old Marine
12-09-04, 08:26 AM
We have always gone in with what you brung, so what's the big deal.
Namvet67
12-09-04, 08:37 AM
The Marines don't have time to go around whining. You make do with what you got issued and then you learn how to IMPROVISE.
kentmitchell
12-09-04, 08:45 AM
Don't whine.
Improvise and adapt.
I could be wrong (I was ONCE but I can't remember the date) but I think the NG outfits are the ones doing the whining.
kentmitchell
12-09-04, 08:46 AM
Another reason Marines probably aren't whining: Like us old goats, they're probably stealing armored humvees from the army and giving them a quick repaint.
bobpage
12-09-04, 01:05 PM
You don't have to stael them anymore. Last year we found them by the roadside in droves. They leave them because of flat tires or what have you. So we would hook them up to a wrecker and fix them on the move. They had armored hummers.
yellowwing
12-09-04, 01:14 PM
LMAO :D Remember that story about those Army guys getting left behind their column because of a vehicle breakdown?
Their NCOIC forgot about them for three days, and if it wasn't for a passing Marine helo, they would have died out in the desert or in some rat hole prison cell.
No wonder they abandon their vehicles these days!
garryh123
12-09-04, 01:15 PM
It looks like a reporter had the soldier ask the question...hmmmm
Phantom Blooper
12-09-04, 03:24 PM
Rumsfeld Says He's Not Surprised by Troops' Complaints
By ERIC SCHMITT
Published: December 9, 2004
EW DELHI, Dec. 9 - Responding to complaints by disgruntled Iraq-bound soldiers in Kuwait that they lacked armor for the vehicles, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said today that it was valuable for senior Pentagon officials to hear concerns directly from troops, but he offered no immediate changes in how the Army is reacting to the problems.
"It's important for senior leadership to meet with the troops, talk to them, ask them questions, listen to what they have to say," Mr. Rumsfeld told reporters traveling with him here. "I must say I find myself not surprised at all at the kinds of things I hear."
On Wednesday at Camp Buehring, a staging base in Kuwait for America1n troops entering and departing Iraq, three soldiers complained about equipment shortages and prolonged tours of duty in an unusually frank exchange between the troops and their civilian boss.
One soldier, Specialist Thomas Wilson, a scout with a Tennessee National Guard unit, said his unit had been forced to dig through local landfills to find enough scrap metal to bolt on to their trucks for protection against roadside bombs in Iraq.
Another soldier from an Idaho National Guard unit asked what Mr. Rumsfeld and the Army were doing to addresses shortages and outdated equipment that reservists were taking into Iraq.
Mr. Rumsfeld responded that the Army was sending armored vehicles to Iraq as fast as it could, but growing frustrated with the complaints, he then retorted: "You go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want."
After his remarks received broad coverage, Mr. Rumsfeld appeared to soften his tone today. "I think that it's good for people to raise questions," he said. "It gives senior military leadership that has the responsibility for these matters a chance to hear them, talk to them."
Mr. Rumsfeld said he had a general discussion about the soldiers' questions with the commander of Army forces in the Persian Gulf, Lt. Gen. H. Steven Whitcomb, after the town-hall-style meeting that was intended to raise troop morale.
But Mr. Rumsfeld said today that he had ordered no additional changes in what the Army is already doing to speed the delivery of armored Humvees, trucks and other vehicles to Iraq, and accelerate steps to add armor to existing vehicles.
Mr. Rumsfeld said the military reflexively adjusts to changes on the ground as the insurgency attacks what it sees as vulnerabilities in American military units. " As you make adjustments it requires different kinds of equipment, different kinds of tactics and different kinds of approaches," he said.
In Washington, a senior House Democrat expressed outrage at Mr. Rumsfeld's remarks.
"I was deeply disappointed to hear Secretary Rumsfeld's callous and dismissive attitude toward our troops," Representative Martin Meehan, a senior Massachusetts Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee, said in a statement. "When confronted with multiple instances of National Guard units about their lack of preparedness and equipment, it is the responsibility of the secretary of defense to fix the problem, not disregard the concerns. Secretary Rumsfeld's dismissive attitude simply should not be tolerated."
Mr. Meehan called on President Bush to dismiss Mr. Rumsfeld, barely a week after asking the secretary to stay on the job in his second administration.
Mr. Rumsfeld made clear to the troops on Wednesday that he had no intention of leaving anytime soon. "It's the last thing I want to do, is retire," he said.
Mr. Rumsfeld's comments to reporters today came after meeting here with his Indian counterpart, Pranab Mukherjee, for more than an hour, twice as long as had been scheduled.
In a brief statement after their meeting, Mr. Rumsfeld said the two men had discussed a wide range of security issues, and that the United States-India "defense relationship was a strong one and something we intend to see is further knitted together as we go forward in the months and years ahead."
Speaking to reporters traveling with him, Mr. Rumsfeld declined to discuss specifics of the meeting, other than to say that the situation in Iraq was discussed at length, that Iran came up only in passing and that the United States appreciated India's aid in Afghanistan. He did not comment on India's concern over possible American arms sales to Pakistan, particularly of F-16 fighter jets.
India's prime minister, Manmohan Singh, has indicated India's willingness to help Iraq prepare for democratic elections, and a request has been made for India's Election Commission to send people in to help. American officials said that India would most likely conduct training outside of Iraq. But the bottom line - no Indian troops to Iraq - is unchanged, officials said.
The last few years have seen unprecedented military cooperation between the two countries, in the form of joint exercises and training from Agra to Alaska, and a close working relationship on counterterrorism. American defense manufacturers see India as a major potential market. India is trying to modernize its armed forces, and has become one of the world's largest arms importers.
The Indian newspapers report that India wants to discuss a possible purchase of the Patriot missile system, but the Ministry of Defense has been silent on the issue. India also needs American approval to buy the Arrow missile defense system from Israel. Any major American sales to India, however, will raise concerns about the balance of power in South Asia, especially if the United States eventually sells F-16s to Pakistan.
In January, the two governments agreed to the Next Steps in Strategic Partnership, which is aimed at improving cooperation on civilian nuclear activities, civilian space programs and technology trade, and expanding their dialogue on missile defense, which India has indicated support for. In September, the first phase of the partnership was completed: the United States agreed to allow the export of more dual-use items to India, including to its space research program, while India has agreed to address proliferation concerns.
Amy Waldman contributed reporting for this article.
Phantom Blooper
12-09-04, 03:49 PM
Every war and conflict sit-rep is different.In 1983 ,in Beirut,Lebanon it was quite a dog & pony show for all the congressman and alot of important high ranking DC diplomats and CMC brass. Our supplies were low,especially sandbags.We b****ed among ourselves and then improvised until the sandbags came in off the ships from CONUS. We went thru the streets of Beirut on patrols and took the hoods off of blown up cars and reinforced our bunkers.With alll the press in coutry at that time,no one knew because we took care of it ourselves and took care of our own. We Rat-F***ed supplies from the HQ element and the wing to put out on the line.General Al Gray as the 2nd Mar Div CG toured the lines and asked if there were any problems. Although there were,not one Marine or Navy corpsman spoke up and told him anything was wrong. We as Marines learned to adapt and overcome. I went to the 20th reunion at the USO here in Jacksonville in 2003 and met a man who was in the wing. we talked outside the USO for a good 15 minutes. He said," SSGT you look familiar. I said,"Yes sir,I was the one with my platoon on a recon mission taking sand bags and temporary landing pads from you to reinforce my platoon line." We got caught,but they gave us many sandbags and a can of coffee to boot. When the BLT was destroyed in October of 1983 the public knew that there had been many deaths and wounded. What they didn't know until later was that there was not enough body bags to put their loved one in. So we over came and adapted and very respectfully put the fallen in ponchos,liners,and blankets and treated the remains with the upmost respect until more supplies could come off the ships from overseas bases.The US army is needed in this fight,but,they *****ed and complained when they first went there that the club did not have ice,the DVDS were reruns,and the brew was like panther ****. Meanwhile the Marines were living in trenches or holes out in the sandstorms drinking hot water and cold chow....GO figure! Different era,different Army!Semper-Fi! Chuck Hall
This isn't the first time the Army was whining about inadequate equipment. Remember about a month ago when an entire "Motor-T" unit was brought up on desertion charges for refusing to transport...
radio relay
12-09-04, 05:51 PM
Right on, kentmitchell!!
Spoken like a true combat veteran!
Don't forget to chain up before you go into mamasan's :)
Friggin' doggies! Whining like the pups they are. Use what you got, to "creatively" kill the enemy!
LivinSoFree
12-09-04, 07:18 PM
Phantom Blooper, what company were you with in Beirut? I met a handful of Marines from 1/8 a little while back, and happen to be pretty good friends with one motivated devil doc who was there when the s**t went down... I'd be interested to see if you know any of them.
Lying, stealing, cheating, the MC way. Just don't get caught cause the gunny ain't gonna back ya up.
HardJedi
12-09-04, 08:44 PM
ahhh my first day back, and Ivalis has said something that MAY or may not tick me off. Big suprise. LOL
Ivalis, are you saying that lying stealing and cheating are the Marine Corps way? or are you being sarcastic?
exactly what i'm saying. you politically correct folks call it adapt & improvise.
HardJedi
12-09-04, 09:11 PM
ok, now THAT just HURTS I am in NO WAY politically correct. never have been, never will be. You better take that back or we gonna THROW DOWN! LOL :D
Phantom Blooper
12-09-04, 09:33 PM
Appropriation of Government Property is what I like to call it. Stealing as you say is when one would take something from the government that is not needed in time of conflict or national defense to keep for personal use or to re-sell on the open market. I do not agree with blatantly stealing from a brother or sister Marine,i.e. wallet,stereo,personal items. I do agree with looking out for all my men and if I couldn't get it through the appropriate channnels oh well! At least they were protected as much as possible. Being politically correct is a word that is not in my vocabulary. Semper-Fi! Chuck Hall
LivinsoFree....1st Platoon Charlie Company BLT 1/8 PLT. Guide Beirut 05/83-11/83 :marine:
snipowsky
12-09-04, 10:40 PM
Oh boy. Take cover Marines. Incoming.
P.S. Donald Rumsfeld is an arrogant moron who needs to resign. Does this "man" ever have any clue what he is talking about?
IVALIS I would love to meet you in person!
sgtj, to me Chicago is a southern city. if i ever do get south again would love to sit down w/ya, drink some beer & tell lies.
i see the mississippi river every day. gonna be frozen over pretty soon. don't imagine that happens much in your area. I should "tom sawyer" my ass south some day.
Phantom Blooper
12-10-04, 04:11 AM
Teamwork is essential - it allows you to blame someone else.
:)
gwladgarwr
12-10-04, 09:01 AM
...they conduct Strategic Re-Allocation of Resources operations, or "STRAROPS". That's what my Gunny tole' me.
Phantom Blooper
12-13-04, 08:34 AM
Chicago Tribune <br />
December 12, 2004 <br />
Pg. 1 <br />
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Reservists court-martialed for theft; they say they did what they had to do <br />
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By Aamer Madhani, Tribune staff reporter