Calif. school bans Declaration of Independence

[kentmitchell]

y Dan Whitcomb

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A California teacher has been barred by his school from giving students documents from American history that refer to God -- including the Declaration of Independence.

Steven Williams, a fifth-grade teacher at Stevens Creek School in the San Francisco Bay area suburb of Cupertino, sued for discrimination on Monday, claiming he had been singled out for censorship by principal Patricia Vidmar because he is a Christian.

"It's a fact of American history that our founders were religious men, and to hide this fact from young fifth-graders in the name of political correctness is outrageous and shameful," said Williams' attorney, Terry Thompson.

"Williams wants to teach his students the true history of our country," he said. "There is nothing in the Establishment Clause (of the U.S. Constitution) that prohibits a teacher from showing students the Declaration of Independence."

Vidmar could not be reached for comment on the lawsuit, which was filed on Monday in U.S. District Court in San Jose and claims violations of Williams rights to free speech under the First Amendment.

Phyllis Vogel, assistant superintendent for Cupertino Unified School District, said the lawsuit had been forwarded to a staff attorney. She declined to comment further.

Williams asserts in the lawsuit that since May he has been required to submit all of his lesson plans and supplemental handouts to Vidmar for approval, and that the principal will not permit him to use any that contain references to God or Christianity.

Among the materials she has rejected, according to Williams, are excerpts from the Declaration of Independence, George Washington's journal, John Adams' diary, Samuel Adams' "The Rights of the Colonists" and William Penn's "The Frame of Government of Pennsylvania."

"He hands out a lot of material and perhaps 5 to 10 percent refers to God and Christianity because that's what the founders wrote," said Thompson, a lawyer for the Alliance Defense Fund, which advocates for religious freedom. "The principal seems to be systematically censoring material that refers to Christianity and it is pure discrimination."

In June, the U.S. Supreme Court refused to hear the case of a California atheist who wanted the words "under God" struck from the Pledge of Allegiance as recited by school children. The appeals court in California had found that the phrase amounted to a violation of church and state separation.

[greensideout]

"Do you know the way to San Jose?"

It's the last train stop before hell!

We are out helping other countries when we really need to do more to save ours from these idiots!

[LivinSoFree]

Jesus H. Christ. Religious tolerance is one thing, but banning documents that comprise the CORNERSTONES OF AMERICAN HISTORY FROM PUBLIC SCHOOLS is outright lunacy. I swear... some people just need to be drug out back and shot.

[Osotogary]

Cupertino? That's right down the road from San Jose, right around Silicone Valley. Me thinks that there is too much sillenium(?) in the County water supply.

[USMC-FO]

Stunning and amazing to see and read what lenths some will go to in the pursuit of a secular PC nation ! But this is the San Francisco area so I guess we should not be to surprised.

S/F all and a great Thanksgiving ... Ooops that might be a touch to religious !

[greensideout]

Originally posted by Osotogary
Cupertino? That's right down the road from San Jose, right around Silicone Valley. Me thinks that there is too much sillenium(?) in the County water supply.

"sillenium", LOL. Good one Gary!

[snipowsky]

Originally posted by LivinSoFree
Jesus H. Christ. Religious tolerance is one thing, but banning documents that comprise the CORNERSTONES OF AMERICAN HISTORY FROM PUBLIC SCHOOLS is outright lunacy. I swear... some people just need to be drug out back and shot.

I was going to say something almost exactly like this, but PFC LivinSoFree beat me to the punch!

And yes people like this do need to be shot! Seems to me we are at war with the wrong people in this world. We should clean up our own trash here at home before we start pointing fingers in this world and trying to clean up their trash! Makes me sick that people like this live in America!

[kentmitchell]

Well, at least we know why kids can't learn anything in public schools these days. They're run by idiots.

[snipowsky]

This is what they should do to that school system!

http://wso.williams.edu/~mhacker/Strangelove/mushroom.gif

Or preferably this!

http://www.jeromegoolsby.net/nucflash/nuke21.jpg

[jinelson]

This is the same area that has banned the pledge of allegiance to the flag, the national anthem and yes even God from our schools and public places and the flag itself is their next target. There are only a few of us Marines living here and we are severely out numbered and are totally surrounded. I went to El Cerrito High school and our US Government teacher had a guy named Alexander Karinsky (not sure about the spelling) who was the leader of the first bolsheivic revolution speak to us svereal times on the evils of capitalism and that was like 40 years ago. When I shipped for MCRD San Diego my recruiter called my mom and told her not to take me to the AFFEIS induction center as planned but to the Oakland police station instead as there were several hundred thousand demonstrators around the center to block me from serving. Yeah a true story they had to sneak us in and out surrounded by police. When the Nam was in the last days and I got out, I can assure you that it was a very painfull experience for us Nam vets returning to this area. I am so ashamed to be labled as a native son of this area but take take great pride in being one of the minority voice's of sanity and patriotism here. Things are changing for the better with Governor Swartzeneggers leadership hes done a real good job so far in getting things back the way they should be. Please snipowski dont nuke us but rather move here and support us with your M-60 LMAO.

Happy Thanksgiving and Semper Fi to all.
Jim Nelson Silicon Valley Left Coast USA.

[yellowwing]

...since May he has been required to submit all of his lesson plans and supplemental handouts to Vidmar for approval, and that the principal will not permit him to use any that contain references to God or Christianity.

We are not hearing the whole story. Did the media even bother to ask why he was no longer trusted and required to submit lesson plans for preapproval?

I'm guessing that the media didn't want to know, that would ruin a good sensationalist story.

[criggleman]

Unbelieveable

[snipowsky]

Sounds like Staff Sgt. Jinelson is on the net calling for an immediate extract. Calling all Marines in the area! Pull that Marine out now! He's surrounded by s**t and it's getting deeper!

ROFL! I feel bad for you Jim, hang in there! Don't let all them "girly men" and "losers" get you down. Here in Indiana you'd be the majority, but in Cali you are the minority!

[jinelson]

Thanks snipowski, and I actually do like Indiana. I was there last year in Hammond for a week doin an audit at one of my companies sweetner plants. The whole mid west is Gods country and it sure felt good to be with real Americans again. But hey the offer still stands we could use a good gunner out here. By the way its alot better down sparrowhawks way they dont play these games in southern California. LMAO

Semper Fi
Jim

[gys]

I live in California and am sad to say this kind of mess is going on. Give this teacher the support he needs. Flood this school district with messages in his support.

[DSchmitke]

California is where all the Hippies found a home. Most are a bunch of fruit cakes and tree huggers.

[Osotogary]

What's wrong with hugging a tree? LOL
The last tree I hugged in California was a sycamore tree in or around Livermore, California. (Yep, right around the Lawrence Livermore Lab and its secret goings on) Its bark contained the same properties as Tylenol, Ibuprophen etc., used by the local Indians of another time for tooth aches and pain. The bark tasted nasty but it did work. (Darn, I hope it was a Sycamore tree):confused:
You are right about one thing DSchmitke, California does have its quirkie folks and some of them were spawned during the "Free Love" Movement.

[Toby M]

No offense to good Californians (former and current Marines) but that is one more reason why I decided to stay away from California for good. Visited there in '82 for work and have never been back since. Gangs, high prices, liberal politics...the beach ain't worth it...

[ivalis]

once again yellowing is a voice of reason. this is another case of the right wing press parsing the news for its own agenda.

as wing mentioned, the issue involved here are the "supplemental" materials this, apparently, religious zelot is handing out.

this makes a good inflammatory story, as is so often true, the whole story isn't as entertaining.

[greensideout]

LOL---Good one Ivalis!

You just did a spin that took the man from being a teacher to a "religious zelot".

Nice try! ;)

[arzach]

Originally posted by yellowwing


We are not hearing the whole story. Did the media even bother to ask why he was no longer trusted and required to submit lesson plans for preapproval?

I'm guessing that the media didn't want to know, that would ruin a good sensationalist story.

Seems we never do hear the whole story from the media...in this case I think we might just find out this teacher was doing his job and was probably introducing other historical documents to his class. Coming from californicate, it's extremely difficult to believe the media to be slanted any other way but left; our children are being taught a 'revisionist' version of history and it was planned a long time ago.


In 1932, William Foster who wrote "Toward Soviet America noted:

"Among the elementary measures the American Soviet government will adopt to further the cultural revolution are the following: The schools, colleges and universities will be coordinated and grouped under the National Department of Education and its state and local branches. The studies will be revolutionized, being cleansed of religious, patriotic, and other features of the bourgeoise (middle class) ideology. The students will be taught on the basis of Marxian dialectical materialism, internationalism, and the general ethics of the new socialist society."

(Foster was one of the early founders of the ACLU, and was head of the communist party USA.)

There is more to the aclu than meets the eye.

[bobpage]

Well, this site is never void of the left view. As a resident of Cali, I must say this is just one more proof that people are afraid to hear the truth. In one of the above comments, a statement was made calling him a zealot and another was the media would never cover the whole story because of sensationalism.

Take is from a Christian and a news media person, we have our fair share of left wing zealots. The ones who would rather us march to a Stalinist song, much like Michael Moore would. Politics aside, the minority view gets pushed into the face of the world by the left. Why? Because, the left works to get the jobs in the media, and a gaggle of them can make a lie truth. There are enough of us real journalists to check most of it. But Americans as a whole have to stand up and say "WHOA" to this crap.

Don't keep blaming the media, blame us. We showed up in this past election. But we need to show up every day on issues that chap MOST Americans. Why have we become so apathetic? I'm no social-scientist. But it is clear to me through years of covering news locally and internationally, that most people have developed that "if it doesn't affect me" mentallity. So when we hide our heads in the sand, the little groups get into these jobs and get their agendas in the media and all of a sudden, they are the poor, down-trodden, hungry, abused masses from abroad seeking freedom in America. Yeah right.

This teacher just tried to insert some FACTUAL writings showing that GOD had a hand in the beginnings of this country. Revisionists, that re-write history books, would have you believe that HE did not. They are offended by the mention of GOD. Yet, they want parity for Muslims. And when you have the audacity to object, and say you WILL NOT give credence to Islam and its tenets, you are called racists and intolerant. They call us hate mongers and mean spirited. They live in houses with no mirrors.

Amercians in 11 states voted down immoral stuff, voted against a candidate who would sell our soverignty to the UN for some fame, and the Supreme Court said we are "under GOD". So instead of us ranting about the left, let's stand up and take our country back. When a conversation breaks out and you hear wrong being spewed, speak up. If they are trying to covert people to the minority mindset, set them straight. Watch how fast they flee, and talk about your intolerance behind your back. They will heave hate at you, much like the "patriots" (Michael Moore quote) in Iraq (the insurgents) do at our troops and hide their faces.

My job is filled with idealistic leftists. They all believe that the other half of my work-place that is conservative are hate mongers because we don't embrace gay-rights, etc. as GOD given. I always invite all these liberals to go serve their country like I have, and do. They always mumble and walk off. Later, you catch them whining about haters in the newsroom.

Whew, that is a lot to read. But consider this one thing: The teacher is within his rights to talk about GOD in our foundations. The principal wanted to censor him because the Cali mantra is there is no Creator, and Islam is equal to Christianity, and Judiaism. They want our kids to be force-fed a stady diet of tolerance for the "peaceful" Muslims. If you cannot beat them, subvert them from within. And make no mistake, I am not a zealot, just a PATRIOTIC AMERICAN who believes in GOD.

[yellowwing]

Oakland Tribune, Jill Tucker (http://www.oaklandtribune.com/Stories/0,1413,82~1865~2558339,00.html)
...She then prevented Williams from giving students several handouts, including:

Excerpts from the Declaration of Independence with references to "God," "Creator" and "Supreme Judge."

"George Washington's Prayer Journal."

"The Rights of the Colonists" by Samuel Adams, which includes passages excluding Roman Catholics from religious tolerance because of their "doctrines subversive of the civil government under which they live."

The suit also alleges that Williams was singled out in the review of his lesson plans and handouts, a violation of constitutional equal protection rights.

...Eventually a parent complained, and the principal started requesting his lesson plans and handouts....

Its a no win situation for the School Board. They have an Orthodox Christian Teacher pulling only excerpts that fit his beliefs, and a disgruntled parent complaining he's teaching anti-Catholic rhetoric.

Of all places, I found that the Smoking Gun (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1124041declar1.html) website had a copy of the Teacher's lawsuit. It's ridiculous, the Teacher contradicts himself in his complaint.

The Delcaration of Independence mentions God Twice. That "Rights of the Colonists (http://www.constitution.org/bcp/right_col.htm) " by Sam Adams, only mentions Catholics once.

And yet these are the excerpts he insists on presenting. He works for the School Board. He was warned. And he ignored the warning.

Challenging that his 1st Amendment Rights had been violated might not fly. That grandmother was arrested for shouting anti-Bush rhetoric at a Laura Bush rally.

That guy got fired for wearing an anti-Bush t-shirt at another rally. We had a big debate on that one. I seem to remember that the Leatherneck consensus was, "He violated his company's policy, fire him."

Do ye' all still say the same for this Teacher?

[arzach]

You can color or spin it any way you want...re-writing history is just that, leaving pieces and stems out is the same as condoning the same lie.

Untill all the communist rhetoric is called just what it is and recognized by the population, the left will still 'bo-weevil' itself deeper into our society and teach it's slanted views to young, impressionalist minds. Only remedy I can see for this NOT to happen to my Son when he starts school is to send him to a parochial or private school. My Son will know Gods part in the establishment of our government and Country!

now, that's how I feel...I defy any on this board to say that I cannot say what I just said...right or wrong I believe it as well as 84% of the Country's population.

[CPLRapoza]

You know it's kind of funny and pathetic at the same time. Everytime I read a post it always winds up being the same argument "the left did this" or "the right did that". You sound like a bunch of winers. Ladies and gentlemen, we are Marines, our job and our purpose requires us to be the absent of these opinons. How are we going to fight for our country when we are divide on which way it MUST go. It kind of defeats the purpose don't you think.

Now I do believe this country is going to $h!t and a hand basket. But it's our own fault. The line between the left ad the right is very very thin, so small that when ever someone steps over chaos reins. We need to broaden this line and start creating some middle grown. Comprimise for christ sake. Take gay marrages for example: I say let the gays have the right to get married anywhere they want, but at the same time, if a certain place (i.e. church, ministry, town hall) doesn't condone it, then they don't have to marry them, they have to go somewhere else.

If we could take this tep toward a comprimising future, I believe we'd all be better off. We're at war Marines, we don't need another one here. I believe it was Sung Tsu that said, and please correct me if I'm wrong "the greatest enemy, is the enemy within". This is so true when it comes to America. We are so power full compared to the rest of the world that the only country that can beat us is ourselves. And enless we change this, we will succeed.

Don't condem someone just because their values and beliefs don't fit yours, except take his word match it with yours and find a place in the middle we're y'all could meet.

[USMC-FO]

Nice piece of writing Cpl Rapoza...has some logic and common sense attached which is often in short supply. This site mirrors this nation in many respects--perhaps a bit more right leaning--but clearly as divided as the nation is at this moment also. Try as we might wish to it will be very difficult get us all to pull in one direction on anything.

I suspect I am a touch more tolerant than many on this subject, and many other topics, but it does trouble me when a governing authority, in this case a principal, imposes this sort of oversight to any teacher on historical fact just becasue a parent is ragged over the direction a teacher might be subjecting a student to. I don't know all the details to this particular case but think I will try to look further.

Anyway...nice writing and good luck in your immediate future.

S/F

S/F

[Sgt. Smitty]

My God people, it's time to wake up and start gettin this country back on track as to the founding blocks of this nation. The process of elimination in this countries school system is totally screwed up. Whatever happened to the beliefs that this country was founded on? There are too damned may foreigners making decisions in this country that go totally against all the things this country holds sacred. We need to revamp the school systems and get them back to where they were when we were in the 60's and tell all these people that want to ban the Declaration of Independence and anything relating to God to go back to their own country and leave us the hell alone!!!!!!!!!!! We don't need their beliefs pushed off on our young people. Our young people need to be raised the way we were, pledge allegance to this flag or get the hell out of this country, plain and simple!!

[Old Marine]

When I first heard about home schooling I figured that's crazy, but with the things that go on in public schools these days I would pull my kids out and teach them myself. Even if its only history, reading, writing and math, which is more than they are getting in school today.

[greensideout]

Yep, Old Marine. That's more then most are getting today. All one has to do is to look at the scores that students make in the public schools. The U.S. is sucking hind tit! (For you none farm folks, that's the little 5th tit on the cows utter.) Home schooling has worked out very well for many. With home schooling an unusual thing happens here in America---they become educated in reading, writing, math and history. In the public schools they leard to use condoms, are told that there is plenty for everyone---work is not necessary---and the mantra goes on!

[Old Marine]

Originally posted by greensideout
Yep, Old Marine. That's more then most are getting today. All one has to do is to look at the scores that students make in the public schools. The U.S. is sucking hind tit! (For you none farm folks, that's the little 5th tit on the cows utter.) Home schooling has worked out very well for many. With home schooling an unusual thing happens here in America---they become educated in reading, writing, math and history. In the public schools they leard to use condoms, are told that there is plenty for everyone---work is not necessary---and the mantra goes on!

Maybe you and I should take over the Public School System. The kid's might not like it, but they just might learn respect, if nothing else. Not only respect for others, but respect for themselves.

[kentmitchell]

Maybe we should push for a law that makes stupidity a death penalty offense.

[greensideout]

Nah, stupidity is just a maxed out condition of, "no more room to learn". It's not a real condition. Everyone can always learn more.

"Stupidity" is accepted in the public view thanks to an education system that promotes "victims" and a belief that some are stupid and need a government program to help them out.

The fact is, they just needed an education from a government program that's called Public Education!

[LivinSoFree]

Robert Heinlein said it best...

"Stupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education, or by
legislation. Stupidity isn't a sin, the victim can't help being stupid.
But stupidity is the onlyuniversal capital crime; the sentence is death, there is no appeal, and execution is carried out automatically and without pity."

- Robert A. Heinlein

[arzach]

It's Ok to be born stupid...it's just that some choose to work at and make it a career.

[greensideout]

Originally posted by LivinSoFree
Robert Heinlein said it best...

"Stupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education, or by
legislation. Stupidity isn't a sin, the victim can't help being stupid.
But stupidity is the onlyuniversal capital crime; the sentence is death, there is no appeal, and execution is carried out automatically and without pity."

- Robert A. Heinlein

Third Reich?

[arzach]

Originally posted by greensideout


Third Reich?


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by LivinSoFree
Robert Heinlein said it best...

"Stupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education, or by
legislation. Stupidity isn't a sin, the victim can't help being stupid.
But stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death, there is no appeal, and execution is carried out automatically and without pity."

- Robert A. Heinlein
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Doubt the Third Reich has anything to do with it...

My interpretation of this quote is basicly..you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. the 'victim' doesn't care enough to utilize the tools and programs(public education)at his/her disposal and the 'death sentence' is enforced by themselves when they have no way to fend for themselves in order to 'survive' in today's world. Instead, they feed off the public trough like leeches...aka welfare. Money, programs and the like are not the solution...morals, integrity,responsibility and character are the answers...taught at home by PARENTS who care and take the time to build a foundation for their children. The crux of this is, the moral decay of our Society brought about by PC and liberalz throwing 'pity parties' to 'level the playing field' for those too lazy to take control of their own lives and the well being of their own children.

[greensideout]

I think your take on this quote is correct. I just like to know about the person that is being quoted so that I understand their background and what might have brought about their reasoning to make the statement.

What you have said sums it up very well in my view. I agree!

[yellowwing]

Robert A. Heinlein, novelist of the sci-fi/spiritual-surreal genre. He wrote bizarre views on man and God and Satan. Stuff that would have earned him the stake in 'ole Salem Township.

Personally I like his works, but I lean left.

[greensideout]

yellowwing, thanks for the background on Heinlein.I now somewhat understand where he is coming from but still wonder about when and where he was educated, lived and how he spent his life? He still sounds like someone that has little reguard for the sanctity of life.

[yellowwing]

In one novel, he layed out that Satan is really not that bad of a guy, and God's hierarchy of Angels and Saints was an oppressive system.

I thought the premise was bullsh*t but the story was good escapism entertainment.

[kentmitchell]

Livinsofree,
It's gratifying to learn that young people still read Heinlein.
Might be one of the smartest people to pass through.
And don't forget this piece of wisdom:
It is better to copulate than never.