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Sparrowhawk
11-15-04, 07:21 PM
The liberal Press is gona have a field day with this one.


http://ak.imgfarm.com/images/ap/FALLUJAH_PRISONER_SHOT.sff_NY115_20041115192929.jp g


In this cropped image taken from pool video provided to the Associated Press by NBC News, a U.S. marine is seen, left, raising his rifle in the direction of Iraqi prisoners lying on the floor of a mosque in Fallujah, Iraq Saturday Nov. 13, 2004. The pool video was recorded Saturday as the Marines returned to an unidentified Fallujah mosque. The video, in a version aired by CNN showed the Marine raising his rifle toward the prisoners but neither NBC nor CNN showed the shooting itself. The video was blacked out but the report of the rifle could be heard. (AP Photo/NBC News, Pool)








Screw those embedded news reporters...


Why don't they show the mutilated body of that blonde female hostage whom the terrorist disfigured her face, and then cut off her arms and legs?


Show that....

shooting (http://apnews.myway.com//article/20041116/D86CKLIO0.html)

thedrifter
11-15-04, 07:30 PM
We are only hearing one side of the story....The embedded reporters.

The Media needs to be Silience.

Where is the Marines Rights.

Ellie

Cook I agree, it is a two way street......

LivinSoFree
11-15-04, 08:11 PM
Again, a messy situation. We HAVE GOT to maintain our standards of conduct. We DO NOT SHOOT unarmed prisoners unless they pose an IMMEDIATE AND LETHAL threat. While I am IN NO WAY condoning the conduct of these guerillas/insurgents, what does that mean we amount to if we start acting the same way?

Yes, coverage is incomplete. It always will be. It doesn't make it right either way.

Toby M
11-15-04, 08:13 PM
And the bad news is???? Sounds like the Marine shot the wrong guy. Missed the reporter completely...

mrbsox
11-15-04, 08:40 PM
lol @toby m

Sounds like a good time for 'collateral damage'.

While the 'shock and awe' of the story does indeed sound bad, I WAS NOT THERE ! We trust these men with what must be one of the hardest jobs in the world,

KILLING ANOTHER HUMAN BEING

We must, MUST, support their ability to make the tough decision. Has anyone explored the possibility of 'putting him out of his misery' ??

This was NOT a 'pump him full of lead' shooting. It was careful and deliberate. If theIraqi WAS beyond 'repair', was it not the HUMANE thing to do.

My point is, We, America, the MEDIA (most of all) must not jump to conclusions. Let ALL the facts be heard.

Terry

snipowsky
11-15-04, 08:47 PM
Good for him! Did he at least shoot him between his eyes? Chalk one more up for "Allah"! They should give him a medal! What's the big deal? Are we chopping heads off or killing innocent people in the name of our God or country? NO! So who gives a rats ass if he killed the guy or not! He's an insurgent who deserved to die!

tomwhitt1
11-15-04, 08:56 PM
Reporters do not belong in a front line combat zone....they edit what they report depending on how they sway...and they NEVER give the complete story... No diff than down south in the Southeast Asia War Games, Class of 67-68
"Kill 'um all, Let Chesty & God sort them out"

MillRatUSMC
11-15-04, 08:57 PM
I saw the tape on CNN, it was different from this one, the insurgent was sitting against a wall and you could see blood coming from a wound.
Hindsight is 20/20, can we judge his judgement?
In Vietnam, my platoon capture 5 Viet Cong, one had blown both hands off, when he grab a min instead of one of their homemade grenade.
I made a call for a medevac, for the poor butt hole, thinking that we might get some information, if we saved his sorry a$$.
When the pilot of the chopter saw who I had called the medevac for, told me;
'Sergeant, I will come out for Americans, I might come out for South Vietnamese, next time just shoot the SOB."
I thought to myself;
"I'll do that Sir, if you will go to prison along side of me."
Should I have done as this Marine, and just shot that prisoner?
There's rules of war, and they been instructed on those rules.
Than there Rules of Engagement.
There's an ongoing investingation as we speak on that Marine conduct.
As mrbsox said;
We, America, the MEDIA (most of all) must not jump to conclusions. Let ALL the facts be heard.

Semper Fidelis/Semper Fi
Ricardo

hrscowboy
11-15-04, 08:59 PM
Standards of Conduct what is that ****!!! If you have never been in combat you have no idea what the hell your even talkin about.. You seem to forget that some enemy combatants bobby trap themselves just in case this kind of thing happen. We as marines here have no idea if in fact that raghead was going for a weapon although wounded or was in fact reaching for a trip wire, The bottom line the rules of engagement where if you fear for your life or the enemy appears to try to harm you shoot to kill and this Marine has no damn problem with that what so ever. I have said this before and will say it again the media has no business being embedded with our Marines and our leaders should make sure that doesnt happen. Screw the media and my 2 cents on this is that war is hell but combat is a MOFO you start feelin sympathy for the enemy and you will be the one coming home in a body bag..

snipowsky
11-15-04, 09:04 PM
I second that hrscowboy! SCREW THE MEDIA! KILL KILL KILL ALL THEM RAGHEADS!

hrscowboy
11-15-04, 09:35 PM
Where was the Sgts or the Cpls or Staff NCOs when this incident went down?? Why did the media be allowed inside this place if in fact there where gunshots before these marines went inside the next...

MillRatUSMC
11-15-04, 09:54 PM
I'm not sure if the comment about not being in combat was address to me...17 months in the bush in Vietnam.
Was on several major operations and everything in-between.
From ambushes, to security.
I know in combat there mass confusion and someone has to control the firing during that mass confusion.
To insure one does not kill another Marine.
We never had the media attach to us.
But I did do what I said about calling a medevac on that butt hole.
I agree, where was the NCO's and Officer when this was going down.
You can bet, Marine Headquarters is looking into all this.
We can't feel sorry for the "rag heads" but it's caught on tape and it's been viewed world-wide.
The media should never been allowed in till it was cleared.
But that not what happen.
They tape it all.
I don't feel sorry for the "rag heads", I only feel sorry for the Marine, who was caught doing the firing.

Semper Fidelis/Semper Fi
Ricardo

LivinSoFree
11-15-04, 10:15 PM
I believe hrscowboy was addressing me. I'll be the first to tell you that I haven't been to combat. And NO ONE knows all the facts here. Regardless, the way the American people are gonna see this, LIKE IT OR NOT, is as the wrong thing to do. As I'm sure we all know gentlemen, perception is reality when it comes to popular opinion. Marines are known as the world's Finest Fighting Force for many reasons, but don't forget what we represent. It's easy to say "kill 'em all, let Allah sort 'em out," lord knows I've been guilty of the same thing. But that won't win this war.

Sgt. Smitty
11-15-04, 10:46 PM
The only good diaperhead is one with a bullet between his eyes. When ya gonna wake up and see the similarities between these diaperheads and the gooks in Nam? Their outlook on life is totally opposite of ours, they don't care if they die, so why should we bandage up their wounded, they'd shoot ours! If that's the kind of war they want then let's give it to them and not pussyfoot around like they did in the Nam.

Arlene Horton
11-15-04, 11:10 PM
On one of the reports they did say that the Marines were carefully checking out the "dead" insurgents to make sure they weren't booby trapped and primed to kill our troops. Hopefully they have someone with brains and experience judging what was done and if it was necessary. Semper Fi...

LivinSoFree
11-15-04, 11:11 PM
I'm not suggesting that there be any pussyfooting of any kind. From the facts that ARE available, this iraqi was wounded and from the looks of it out of action. Now I wasn't there, so I'm not gonna claim total awareness of the situation, but at that point, that individual would seem to be classified as a prisoner of war. A few years ago, there was a panel on CSPAN that discussed, amongst other things, treatment of prisoners. The Marine was the only one on the panel who got it right: "We do NOT shoot prisoners."

snipowsky
11-15-04, 11:17 PM
Yeah! As Sgt. Smitty is saying, these diaperheads only know two things. You ask what these two things are? DEATH and DESTRUCTION. And that happens to be what us US Marines know best! So I say we give it to them. F**k the Geneva Convention and f**k world opinion because the world doesn't know anything about being an American and "LivinSoFree". Nothing will win this war except killing the enemy off and exterminating them from the face of this beautiful earth.

Didn't we learn from Vietnam? We need to kill these people wherever they roam. They are using the religion of Islam as a reason to kill. Anyone ever heard of JIHAD? We will keep on having problems like 9/11 until we exterminate these islamist militants. I don't know about you all, but I'd rather kill them in their backyard instead of my own. Then again they wouldn't last a minute in our world here in America. Americans wouldn't be having it.

We own more guns in this country then any other nation in the world. I say bring it on Mr. Taliban or Mr. Al-Queda! I'm ready to GET SOME! You people want to kill my countrymen and my comrades in arms, well I want you just as dead! By any means neccesary! I would kill you with extreme prejudice unlike PFC LivinSoFree. After I shot your wounded comrade in his face I'd have taken the film from that piece of s**t reporter and destroyed the evidence. I'd play your game of deception and lies.

You people aren't the only killers that roam this earth. My brothers just so happen to be the best at killing types like you and I welcome your ignorance to think we won't hunt you down and kill you wherever you go.

Not all of us Marines think alike! I don't have any compassion or sympathy for my enemy who kills my brother!

LivinSoFree
11-15-04, 11:44 PM
Snipowski, I think you misunderstand me.

Put me on the line against an enemy, and I am ready to F**K HIM, HER, IT, UP! I don't care what it looks like, how old it is, or where it came from. If it so much as lifts a finger towards me, my brothers, or my nation, it's getting BLOWN AWAY. PERIOD. This wounded Iraqi, from the looks of it, was pretty good and f**ked up, and at that point, where's the honor in blowing his head off when he can barely lift it?

HONOR, COURAGE, COMMITTMENT. Those are OUR Corps Values. They don't have to be the enemy's, but by god, they're mine.

troop901
11-15-04, 11:45 PM
Guess I will weigh in on this, yes, I do support that Marine. Was it right or wrong, dont know, wasnt there. In my job I had the privilidge of watchin a vidieo made by these innocent iraqi civilians, of them plantin a bomb and then explodin it which killed and maimed several U.S. Army soldiers and they applauded. In my job on several times I have been a split second away from pullin that trigger, I was lucky, each time I didnt have too and everyone came out of it unharmed. Guess that say's sumfin bout my ability to talk hillbilly. But we all know that they do and will booby trap themselves and that Marine did his job and yes, he survived, that is what is most important, to him, his family and us.

snipowsky
11-15-04, 11:51 PM
From what I've been hearing this "wounded" Iraqi was playing dead aka a dead possum with a weapon under him. I would have killed him too! Don't judge unless you are that Marine in that same...

HardJedi
11-15-04, 11:56 PM
Hmm. you know what I REALLY hate in this world? the idea of civilized WAR! JESUS CHRIST! war is an extension of politics through FORCE! The point of war is to KILL the enemy. well, to kill enough of them to force the rest of them to do what you want anyway.

when dealing with eastern and middle eastern societies, they do NOT for the most part, care about thier own deaths, and the ONLY thing the respond to is unbridled atrocity. Like it or not, it's the truth. Present an eastern or middle eastern foe with a superior force, and all they will do is martyr themselves all over you. they see it as thier DUTY to do so.

You can tell WHAT they are afraid of by what THEY do to inspire fear in thier enemies. Torture, and gruesome executions, with no hope of dieing gloriously in battle taking infedels with them.

You want the war to stop? start killing every third prisoner at random. True, this will create more enemies in the future, but they will start out small again, and it will take time for them to get enough people together to be a major threat.

to HELL with the rules of war. The ONLY rule, or code of conduct that SHOULD matter, is survival of OUR side, and the death of THIER side.

LivinSoFree
11-16-04, 12:00 AM
Snipowski, I agree with you. I'm certainly not judging this Marine, if he thought he made the right call, then I'm 100 percent behind him, no questions asked. I'm more worried by the idea that we can just "kill 'em all, let allah sort them out." That's the kind of thing that gets us into trouble. How do you tell the difference between an Egyptian and an Iraqi, like the ones they found the other day? I'm in full favor of realistic ROEs, and certainly am OK with the fact that yes, some innocents will die, because it is a war. That's something I can come to terms with. But in a general sense, f***ing up prisoners because it feels good, or because your p***ed off, is the last thing we need right now. Again, I'm behind that Marine 100 percent if he acted to protect himself or his Marines, and I don't have all the facts. But if this was a case of just blowing a wounded away... then I have serious qualms with that.

HardJedi
11-16-04, 12:07 AM
Originally posted by LivinSoFree
How do you tell the difference between an Egyptian and an Iraqi,

an egyptina could proably run a bit faster. I don't think they are as short of food as the iraqis ;)

hrscowboy
11-16-04, 12:11 AM
The bottom line gentlemen is this and i am not putting any marine down what so ever. I am saying that unless you have been in combat and have been in the heat of a firefight you have no idea what you might do. Our brothers have been fighting with hardly any sleep or rest since Nov 8, They have witnessed there own die because of these ragheads, that have killed innocent people and refused to surrender when asked to do so before our Marines went in. They chose there fate our devil dogs just brought it too them and a fine job they have done at that. rules of engagement was very simple if the threat was there in any way shape or form Kill it . As far as a prisoner of war is concerned he had his chance to surrender the very first day these Marines went to this place but he refused. I am a combat veteran and i never had any rules of ingagement that said anything about taking any pows. buttom line war is war you kill them or they will kill you.

yellowwing
11-16-04, 12:14 AM
From the NY Times version of the Associatd Press report. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
It looks cut and dry to me. It was the necessary use of caution. <br />
<br />
Marines learn very fast. Battalion told everyone immediately of the...

snipowsky
11-16-04, 12:14 AM
LivinSoFree I have this friend who was with Force Recon in Vietnam. He told me about these two VC who didn't want to talk even after being interrogated for hours on end. So you know what they did? They took them up in a huey and threw one out. What do you think happened then? That other zipperhead sung like a bird. Sometimes you have to do what you have to do to save lives... even if that thing you do isn't the morally right thing to do. That's war. Isn't it hell?

P.S. I totally 100% endorse what hrscowboy says!

MillRatUSMC
11-16-04, 12:31 AM
Regardless of what we think or say, it's been investigated By the Headquarters of the Marine Corps.
It's been aired by every major network, they had all their "experts and retired Officers" all making an opinion.
This Marine is being tried before the investigation is done with.
So IMHO, we should let this matter to those doing the investigating.
Our opinions won't change a thing...

Semper Fidelis/Semper Fi
Ricardo

hrscowboy
11-16-04, 12:34 AM
What we need to do here gentlemen is raise hell with the company that this news man works for and get his ass fired from that position, bet we Marines boycott this media and this guy he will be long gone in a matter of days..

hrscowboy
11-16-04, 12:36 AM
Ssgt ricardo heres a news man that thinks he needs to be the next bill oreilly bull**** like this needs to be stopped all this guy wanted to do was make a name for himself thats the bottom line..

hrscowboy
11-16-04, 12:38 AM
I say lets flood the phone lines at headquarters Marine Corps about this then..

yellowwing
11-16-04, 12:51 AM
Let's see how the follow up reporting is presented.

Read the story or the section I reprinted again.

The embedded reporter, Kevin Sites, said enough to clear this Marine of any wrong doing. Sites may or may not have meant to, but he did.

yellowwing
11-16-04, 04:30 AM
I've been spot checking the now 528 related new articles collected from Google News.

One new tidbit from the Scotsmen.com News (http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3763127)

...Military officials said some rebels drew US soldiers in by pretending to be dead and then opened fire.

Generally, our allies' news sources have been including that the insurgents have been using these types of tactics.

India, South Africa, and of course Al Jazeera have not been including this important info.

kentmitchell
11-16-04, 05:06 AM
Ya'll are right. Shoulda shot the newsman, too.
Happiest day of my life was 9/1/04 when I retired as a newspaper man.
Now when people ask what I do, I say "unemployed."
It wasn't like this when I started 35 years ago. There was some honor back then. Most of these guys today are scum.

hrscowboy
11-16-04, 07:40 AM
yeah i would have shot that damn reporter after i asked him whos damn side is he on anyway...

radio relay
11-16-04, 09:46 AM
It truly sets my blood to boiling the way these slimey turd traitors, socalled "reporters" look for anything to harm the military.

I agree with the sentiment that the reporter should have been killed first, then the cameraman, then any raghead still breathing left in the mosque!!!

Also, these generals who race to see who can be the first to hang their troops should be shot, too!!!

With all the disgusting activities of these terrorists going on, i.e. beheadings, targeting children, using civilians as human shields, surrender ruses, etc etc. Then some scumbag, that deserves to die, gets his ticket punched to go hump a virgin camel in raghead heaven, and the bleeding hearts are calling for blood.

It's a stinking disgrace!!!

ALSEUT
11-16-04, 09:58 AM
war is hell! It sucks to be you if you go up toe to toe with the finest.

hrscowboy
11-16-04, 10:01 AM
Our commandant needs to tell his commanders that from this day forward NO reporters will be allowed to be embedded with any Marine Corps unit and send them down the road.

CplCrotty
11-16-04, 10:07 AM
Toby M sums it up for me. I couldn't agree more.

Sparrowhawk
11-16-04, 10:25 AM
The <strike>gook</strike> raghead, was dying.

He had been involved in shooting at Marines. May have even been the one that wounded or killed one of ours. I would not have hesitated to pump a few rounds into his dying body to help him along the way.

Not a mercy killing, not to put him out of his misery, simply because he is the enemy.

He was going to die, the bullets that killed him hadn't taken out all of his last breath, so I would pump some rounds into him, sort of open the door for him to enter into hell.

ALSEUT
11-16-04, 10:40 AM
"“Why is it that we never believe the man who puts his life on the line everyday, over someone who is looking for a headline"?

Namvet67
11-16-04, 10:46 AM
KRLD 1080 radio is having a field day of this one. Mike Gallerger is the DJ and he is all for the actions of the Marine. Some army guy named Frank called in to condemn the Marine. He called us Nazi type people. Frank claims to have 5 years service with the 101st and and seen combat. I doubt that. I'm behind this Marine all the way. I have seen booby traped bodies in Vietnam and believe me...don't take the chance. Get the media the xxxk out of there and let the Marines do their job. It's a search and destroy mission so go do it, clean up and come on home.

mark king
11-16-04, 10:50 AM
i would have pumped a few more into him. they want play games, acting like they are dead or surrendering, i dont think so.
kill them all!!!

LivinSoFree
11-16-04, 10:54 AM
Given the additional facts published in the story, I fully support what that Marine did, since it's become obvious that he was acting in the best interest of himself and his Marines by responding to a known threat. More power to him. Kevin Sites is, in fact, from what I can tell, a fairly good reporter. From the looks of it, he's spent plenty of time in hotspots, enough time, I believe to make him a more than friendly individual to the US military. His reports and images are actually a pretty good source for what's happening on the ground level out there, be it good or bad. I don't think he was trying to get anyone fried with this image, to be honest with you.

Again, I don't have any problem whatsoever with what that Marine did in context. My only issue comes out when we forget who and what we are, and say "to hell with reason," because reason is what separates us from them.

Namvet67
11-16-04, 11:01 AM
Let me tell you something..LivinSoFree..Reason sometimes don't come intyo play when you got rounds flying at you. The Marines are there to Kill..nothing less..nothing more. No reason is not what seperates us from them...What seperates us is the fact that we are United States Marines who just want to do their job and do it well. Reason will get you killed...in the heat of combat.

hrscowboy
11-16-04, 11:17 AM
livinsofree, i realize your just a new marine and have not been in a combat firefight yet but son you need to think what The Marine Corps is all about. We are the professional Killers of the United States of America. We have always been first to fight the battles for our country and the first to kill the enemy. I can tell you this young Marine there is not a combat Veteran that has not thought the same thing that you have until we had to take a life and then that thought is gone forever. Its either you or him thats the bottom line. I can also tell you that if you keep thinking like that when and if you do see some combat your going to have an NCO that is going to flat put a boot up your ass if you even start talkin like that. Reasoning is not allowed in the heat of combat..

snipowsky
11-16-04, 11:58 AM
ROFL@hrscowboy! GET HIM!

LivinSoFree
11-16-04, 11:59 AM
... something to think on. As always, thanks for the lively discussion, Marines.

ROB8541
11-16-04, 12:13 PM
those who aren't and haven't been there have no right to judge the actions of those in harms way, you do what you have to to ensure your marines safety..

geeze
11-16-04, 12:30 PM
Just signed on and have been hearing about this all day on t.v. and the radio. Since I wasn't there, I won't judge the Marine one way or the other. But I will say that I've been in some hairy situations, where stress level was WAY high, and the results were all on me. No one can judge what anyone does in any given situation, until they've been there, and until the investigation is done, as far as I'm concerened, he did what he had to do for his own safety and the safety of others.

If other people can't see that, Oh Well!!

An old Law Enforcement saying; "Better to be tried by twelve, than carried by six"

Skinnypup
11-16-04, 01:14 PM
Funny how "beheadings" are not headlined, but throw some panties on a prisoner and instantly go to jail. Sadaam kills millions of his own people but probably will not see a trial in his lifetime, and the media crucifies the military for killing unarmed terrorists. WTF is wrong here?
Good job Marines! I hope it was a "double tap" to the head!

Toby M
11-16-04, 02:21 PM
If war was all about fairness, the insurgents would not be using white flags to get our guard down then try to kill our men. They wouldn't kill innocent kids by blowing themselves up in a market place. They do all this in the name of a religion-not because they want to play fair or engage in the rules of war. There is no fairness in war-it is all about survival! First and foremost, you watch your buddy's back and worry about your enemy's well being last!

thedrifter
11-16-04, 02:25 PM
U.S. Marines Rally Round Iraq Probe Comrade <br />
<br />
By Michael Georgy <br />
<br />
FALLUJA, Iraq (Reuters) - U.S. Marines rallied round a comrade under investigation for killing a wounded Iraqi during the...

hrscowboy
11-16-04, 02:49 PM
WHATS THIS.. a staff NCO sitting in the pentagon making judgement calls geeze what next...

Sparrowhawk
11-16-04, 03:04 PM
"I would have shot the insurgent too. Two shots to the head," said Sergeant Nicholas Graham, 24, of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.


"You can't trust these people. He should not be investigated. He did nothing wrong."

henry
11-16-04, 03:32 PM
I Agree, if you pussyfoot around, you're as good as dead, if given the chance, the diaperhead will BLOW YOUR HEAD OFF.. no questions asked, and to the guy who called a medevac, FOR A GOOK...WHAT WAS YOUR MOS...OFFICE POGE??? maybe your fighting for the wrong side Our brothers come first..I was a squad leader in the Nam.. our wounded came first. SEMPER FI...DOES THAT MEAN ANY THING TO YOU ??? WE'RE MARINES..screw the media...SEMPER FI...

Osotogary
11-16-04, 04:03 PM
Henry,
Could you please read all of the entries into this thread made by the Marine you chose to call an OFFICE POGE? And then, if you wish, could you read all of the posts and threads that were initially begun or contributed to be this same Marine. Thank you.
Respectfully,
Gary(osotogary)

Sparrowhawk
11-16-04, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by LivinSoFree
Kevin Sites is, in fact, from what I can tell, a fairly good reporter. From the looks of it, he's spent plenty of time in hotspots, enough time, I believe to make him a more than friendly individual to the US military. His reports and images are actually a pretty good source for what's happening on the ground level out there, be it good or bad.

For years, until Walter Crockkite, biasly reported on Vietnam, the news reporter supported our troops with their news stories from the war zones and those stories warmed the hearts at home. They were with us, supported us, and were "truly embedded" with the troops.

The reporters reported and supported us in war because they were first of all Americans before reporters and when things like this that maybe questionable occurred, they just didn't report it, because the military men have always governed their own, questioned their own, and if someone really stepped out of line he was removed from there and or prosecuted.

First of all let's not forget that in war, things happen, situations arise and the enemy is the enemy until, he surrenders or is killed.

Wounded or not, they are the enemy, that a Marine shot at and intended to kill, but the enemy was only wounded. These insurgents had not surrendered, they were still combatants, and one playing dead is deadly.

Because the next Marine may believe he's dead and in a second could become the next causality of war.

To make sure they are all dead, shoot them again and again until they stop breathing.

In a police action, you shot to stop them, in war you shot to kill.


Sf

Cook

hrscowboy
11-16-04, 04:40 PM
I STAND BEHIND THIS MARINE 110% FOR HIS ACTIONS, I BLAME HIS LEADERSHIP FOR ALLOWING THIS DUMB ASS EMBEDDED REPORTER TO BE IN A PLACE THAT WAS NOT YET SECURE. MARINES TAKE CARE OF THERE OWN AND THE LEADERSHIP FAILED ON THIS ONE. I WOULD HAVE SHOT THE REPORTER AND THE CAMERAMAN AFTER I ASKED WHOS SIDE ARE YOU ON.

greensideout
11-16-04, 05:10 PM
THE INVESTIGATION: (Not real of course.)

Marine, we have a few questions for you. Are you ready?

Yes sir.

You entered a mosque and discovered wounded or dead enemy, is that correct?

Yes sir.

You have been warned that the enemy will fake being dead only to attact and kill, is that correct?

Yes sir.

You spotted the enemy moving and considered him a threat, is that correct?

Yes sir.

You then shot the enemy and killed him, is that correct?

Yes sir.

GOOD JOB MARINE!!! Carry on.

AYE AYE SIR!

snipowsky
11-16-04, 05:21 PM
LOL@greensideout! That will be exactly how that investigation goes! Marines watch each others six. This Marine will not burn.

MillRatUSMC
11-16-04, 07:17 PM
Henry,
I was a Platoon Leader, Platoon Sergeant on my second tour, first tour I was Squad Leader.
I was fighting on the same side that your were fighting on.
We had no wounded that day and the "gook" had no hands and if you check the Geneva Convention and UCMJ.
There was another wounded "Gook". that one our company commander took with him, when he went back to Battalion.
The shooting of an unharmed and wounded combatant is a war crime.
Or have you forgotten that...
What have you against "Office Poges" or far that matter any MOS other than 0300's.
Because by your tone of voice, you knocking all the other MOS's other than 0300's.
As their service was less than any 0300 or mud Marine aka Grunt.
I wish that you would have gone the PM route instead of a public message board to try knock my service in Vietnam.
I don't knock anyone service in Vietnam, I hope that you would extent me the same courtsey.
If you look at the rules pertain to wounded combatants, once they are captured, it our responsibilty that they get treatment.
I can live with my decision some 30 odd years past.
Semper Fidelis means a great many things to me, one being living the Marine Corps Core Values beside you own Core Values.
Mine said "What do I gain by shooting this dumb butt hole?"
We could have gotten a great deal of information.
For all I know, that crew might have thrown him out once out of sight.
That came from all my Recon training...among many other training...that only means something to me, no one else..
What does Semper Fidelis means to you?
Welcome Home from one Vietnam Veteran to other Vietnam Veteran.

Semper Fidelis/Semper Fi
Ricardo

vfm
11-16-04, 08:06 PM
As I said on another thread One outstanding placement of a round. Same S@#t as'Nam. WHat has to happen is one of these imbedded reporters has to catch some friendly. They just want to pick apart the U.S. Military but forget about the animals that behead innocent people
Semper Fi!!!
vfm

rsta
11-17-04, 04:36 AM
Well said, Ricardo!

Semper Fi!

Bob

Sparrowhawk
11-17-04, 10:01 AM
released the video and now the enemy uses it against us.




Originally posted by yellowwing
I've been spot checking the now 528 related new articles collected from Google News.
Generally, our allies' news sources have been including that the insurgents have been using these types of tactics.

India, South Africa, and of course Al Jazeera have not been including this important info.


Compare those figures to the press coverage of the kidnapping and killing of British-Born

Margaret Hassan by terrorist Google shows a total 228 related news articles on that killing.



AL JAZEERA TV: the Arabic News Satellite Channel has been beaming the Marine shooting all over the Middle East and has not aired the killing of British-Born Margaret Hassan murder.

Its evident that news station supports the Terrorist. NBC News seems now, to be trying to cover the full story in the video they recently released on their Internet site.

Video news clip (http://video.msn.com/video/p.htm?t=1&p=Source_Nightly%20News&i=effcff99-ec83-452f-a21e-d32faab2a7e3)


The fighters in the mosque had been armed with rocket-propelled grenades and AK-47 rifles.

The day before the shooting the Marine doing the shooting had been wounded in the face and another Marine in his unit had been killed when a bobby-trapped insurgent body's blew up killing Marine Cpl Perez


http://www.militarycity.com/valor/images/zzperez_andres_h.JPG
Marine Cpl. Andres H. Perez
21, of Santa Cruz, Calif.; assigned to 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, I Marine Expeditionary Force, Marine Corps Base Camp Pendleton, Calif.; killed Nov. 14 by enemy action in Anbar province, Iraq.




The Marines went into the mosque to kill, not to take prisoners. The insurgent shot already had a fatal wound but was pretending to be dead.

Good shooting is the way I see it.


Sf

Cook

hrscowboy
11-17-04, 10:20 AM
Cook I have already contacted HQ Marine Corps and raised hell about this incident and notified my chapter of the Vietnam Veterans of America and have been advised that my chapter members are also calling HQ Marine Corps and raising hell about this. I AM NOW ASKING ALL MARINES PRESENT AND FORMER TO CALL HQ MARINE CORPS IN WASHINGTON DC AND VOICE YOUR CONCERNS...

Sparrowhawk
11-17-04, 10:25 AM
post that phone number here and we'll get it going...

LivinSoFree
11-17-04, 11:14 AM
OK, while I had my intial reservations about the circumstances of this Marine's actions, with the release of information over the last couple days, those reservations are gone. This Marine OBVIOUSLY acted in the best interests of himself and his Marines, and I'm not about to question his judgement. You should see some of the bulls**t that some punks are posting on some of the other forums I post on.

The one that really lit a fire in my gut was the college kid, username of "SmokeABowl" who posted, and I quote, in reference to the Marine in question


" He is obviously not very good at his job- shot in the face one day, shooting wounded, unarmed men the next."

Man... I didn't even know where to start with that one... I tried to keep the profanity in my reply to that one to a minimum... not to much success though.

Namvet67
11-17-04, 11:22 AM
LivinSoFree...glad to see you are back on track. I wouldn't spend much time trying to communicate with some idiot like that.

jinelson
11-17-04, 11:29 AM
Wow LivinSoFree that puke needs to know if he had posted here he would be a free fire zone. I hope you cussed him good. SmokeAbowl probably was a Kerry campaign manager.

hrscowboy count me in on the telephone campaign.

Sparrowhawk
11-17-04, 11:47 AM
SmokeAbowl ?

Sounds to me, as if the guy is a pot head!

geeze
11-17-04, 12:05 PM
Has anybody got a phone number or e-mail address for H Q Marine Corps? I've tried 3-4 different sites and can"t seem to get one. Any help would be appreciated.

As for SmokeAbowl, I'm sure that I'm not alone in hoping someone finds out who he is and where, and have an up close and personal discussion about who he's talking bad about!!!!

AAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHH!!!!!

Blood Pressure just went up

Sgt Morales, AM
11-17-04, 12:47 PM
Geeze,
here are the agencies for HQMC. Which one do you need?


Headquarters Agency
Command, Control, Communication, Computers
Doctrine Division
Equal Opportunity Branch
Marine Corps Systems Command
Navy and Marine Corps Appellate Leave Activity

snipowsky
11-17-04, 01:02 PM
This is the number I was given by the local recruiting station here in Indy for HQMC.

(703) 784-3941

The MasterSgt. who took my call said they'd be happy to hear from all Marines present and past about this issue and this number will get you info to any other numbers you might be interested in having. I also told him Marines here at Leatheneck.com are not very pleased with what is being said about this Marine and how the media is handling this.

I just hope they don't try to fry this Marine and use him to set an example.

Sgt Morales, AM
11-17-04, 01:08 PM
Here is the number to CMC's office: 703-614-2500
Also, here is the e-mail for C4 at HQMC: C4webmaster@hqmc.mil

Good Luck

hrscowboy
11-17-04, 01:10 PM
Here is another NO. 1-202-433-4891 ask for Col Lockhart this officer is a personal friend of our commandant he advised me he has had numerous phone calls today...

ccbarus
11-17-04, 03:17 PM
When in doubt empty the magazine!!!!!!

Toby M
11-17-04, 04:38 PM
Try marinemail@hqmc.mil if your other e-mail address doesn't work. Supposedly this goes directly to the commandant or his office. I did a Google with Headquarters Marine Corps...