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thedrifter
11-11-04, 07:17 AM
Iwakuni Marines punished for violating liberty policy <br />
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By Greg Tyler, Stars and Stripes <br />
Pacific edition, Wednesday, November 10, 2004 <br />
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Iwakuni Marine Corps Air Station officials hit at...

hrscowboy
11-11-04, 07:30 AM
geeze i cant believe this now where gonna jump on our men for underage drinking ?? HELLO Major lukhart you dumb **** you ask my young men and woman to die for my country and you wont let them have a beer. Get a life Major lukhart now well see just how fast these men back your ass when it comes down to a real life and death deal.. you can bet the NCOs are not happy about this clown..

OLE SARG
11-11-04, 09:26 AM
This major james lukehart sounds like a Frank Burns (the idiot Major in MASH) clone. I would think he would have more important stuff to do like emtpying trash cans, etc. I read it that he was put...

ese4mc
11-11-04, 09:51 AM
NOT THE 1ST & NOT THE LAST,BUT CERTAINLY THE NEWEST IN
THE LONG LINE OF DUMMIES WHO ISSUE SUCH STUPID ORDERS--WHAT IMAGES OR UNIT COHESION ARE AFFECTED BY THESE LADS HAVING A FEW COLD ONES----WHAT IS TO BE GAINED BY THIS---DOES SPECIAL SERVICES STILL HAVE BEER BUSTS & COOK -OUTS OR IS IT MILK,COKE & PEANUT BUTTER/JELLY
SANDWICHES

LivinSoFree
11-11-04, 10:35 AM
A short conversation three weeks ago:

Col. Hough: "Are you old enough to drink son?"

Me: "No sir."

Col. Hough: "Damn, I should've figured."

Not saying one way or another, but perhaps there's a misplacement of priorities when it comes to the Marine Corps Policy on alcohol. I also know that the cash bar at the ball didn't card a single Marine there.

enviro
11-11-04, 11:14 AM
One of the last classes I attended on Active Duty was a course that taught NCOs how to teach young Marines how to to drink. Sounds stupid at first, but all in all, you have to look at the statistics.

Young Marines don't have any formal training on drinking. They have plenty of formal combat training.

In the year 2000, a total of 41,821 people were killed in traffic crashes in America, and 16,653 (or about 40%) of those fatalities involved alcohol. A large number of those were military.

By the Pentagon's count, 1,139 Americans have died in Iraq since the U.S.-led invasion in March 2003. Under 2,000 people have died in combat related deaths since Vietnam.

Twenty-one percent of service members admit to drinking heavily -- a statistic the military hasn’t managed to lower in 20 years

Speaking only in terms of medical care and lost time at work, alcohol abuse costs DoD more than $600 million each year, said Navy Capt. Robert Murphy, a medical corps officer. DoD spends another $132 million a year to care for babies with fetal alcohol syndrome -- sometimes-serious health problems related to their mothers’ heavy drinking.

Recent civilian studies have turned up some frightening statistics. Thirty-one percent of all occupational injuries are alcohol-related, as are 23 percent of suicides and 32 percent of homicides.

It’s not the use, it’s alcohol abuse that gets people into trouble.
The problem is that young Marines want to drink because "it's cool" or because they are away from momma and daddy for the first time.

They need to learn how to drink. And you won't get a damn one of them to admit they have no freaking clue on how to drink. They can't belly up to the bar and have a few beers, they have to belly up to the keg and have a few funnels poured down their throats.

The law also plays a factor. You have to be 21 to drink. Corps Values - Honor, Courage, & Commitment. If we turn a blind eye to underage drinking, where do we draw the line. Should we turn a blind eye to suspended licenses, illegal firearms, upaid child support, drugs, etc.. just because these idiots can die for their country?

Young Marines who do it "right" now will do it "better" tomorrow. They'll make better leaders - and best of all, they'll be alive to tell us about it.

MillRatUSMC
11-11-04, 12:36 PM
This is a classic case of &quot;Your damned if you do, and your damned if you don't.&quot; <br />
25 Marines did things that are covered by Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), like enviro said; <br />
&quot;If we turn a...

MillRatUSMC
11-11-04, 12:39 PM
:-(
Dang meant to say;
"You will shine your boots and polish your brass before coming through the gate."
How did that "o" get at the end of brass?

Semper Fidelis/Semper Fi
Ricardo

MillRatUSMC
11-11-04, 12:43 PM
:-(
Another mistake, here's the correction;
That enemy won't give you time for any of that BS.
Sorry...

Semper Fidelis/Semper Fi
Ricardo

PS
That was just after returning from Operation Medina, where Hotel 2/1 loss a lot members of the company up north in I Corp...

Sgt. Smitty
11-18-04, 08:20 PM
I was 19 the first time i hit Nam, and no friggin way in hell was anyone gonna tell me i couldn't have a friggin beer if i wanted one. It ain't happenin! But these Marines we not in a combat situation and should abide by the rules of the Corps, period!

devildog21345
11-18-04, 08:36 PM
I am going to step on some toes with this post. I work in the CStore at Camp Lejune in a normal week we sell at least 4 tractor trailer loads of beer in our store alone. That doesn't count the hard liquor.

Sgt. Smitty
11-20-04, 12:08 PM
That still don't make it right tho, i was guilty of buying beer for my crew in Yuma, a couple that were only 20, but that still didn't make it right either. The Marines in Japan have other rules and regs. that they have to go by, especially with all the terrorist activity goin on around the world. Those rules were in affect when i was in Iwakuni in 72-73 and didn't hurt our moral any.

LivinSoFree
11-20-04, 12:53 PM
I know there's a bar in town here that the proprietor runs a little "differently." Apparently a military ID is all they ask for there... his exact words I believe were "if you're old enough to serve, you're old enough to get served."

jinelson
11-20-04, 01:37 PM
I think that many of us NCO's and Staff NCO's have been guilty of providing beer for our underage Marines at one time or another. I agree that if you are old enough to serve your old enough to drink. Hell when I went to the Nam I wasent old enough to drink or vote but my NCO's always took care of me and I guess I just carried on the tradition. Although I agree that does not make it right I was always prepaired to accept the consequences.

hector verduzco
11-20-04, 05:04 PM
How many of you ever been to Camp Wilson at 29 palms california for a CAX? If you have, then you know that at night it gets very cold.
The companys I was attached to would have partys before going back to camp pendelton ca. Their were times that a 1st LT. or a 1stsgt. would tell me, not ask to do a beer run down the hill to mainside. And dont get caught. Thats because we did it at night.
All players and connections were in place if you know what I mean. Everyone had a great time and know one got out of hand.
To drink with your CO, 1stLT. Top, gunney, sgt. cpls, l/cpls, pfc, and pvts. is called brotherhood. Everyone taking care of eachother. I missed them days!!!!!! 81'/85'

MillRatUSMC
11-20-04, 06:03 PM
A little sea story here; I think it was 1964, I was stationed at K-Bay Hawaii.
I was at that time in Recon, we went on a battalion size operation.
Been Recon, we left all our wallets back in the barracks.
On conclusion of the operation, they brought beer out in the field.
All we could do was watch, than the Commander of 3rd Battilion 4th Marines ask me.
"Corporal why are you not getting some beer?", we had to pay for that beer.
With no wallets, no money, which I explain to my Commanding Officer.
He reach for his wallet and gave some money, so we could get some beer.
But he also told me, "When we get back, I want my money back!"
I answer "Yes, Sir"
That beer sure did taste good.
On returning I paid him back his money.
Had a run-in with the Battilion Sgt. Major because I told the clerks that I had a private matter with the CO.
He raised his voice, next thing there my CO and told me "come in"
Next words out of my mouth, "Sir, here's your money and Thank You".
I wonder if many Battalion Commanders would do that now...maybe a few...

Semper Fidelis/Semper Fi
Ricardo

GunnyL
11-20-04, 09:08 PM
I was 17 when I enlisted. Hell, I picked up LCPL time in grade 11 days before my 18th Birthday. I went to bars every weekend my first year in the Corps. They never looked at the back of my Military ID for the age, they just assumed. I went to Japan when I was 18 and they changed the drinking age in CONUS to 21 while I was in Japan. We didn't abide by the CONUS drinking age and the Japanese can drink at 18 as well. If you've never been to Japan, they have Beer and Sake machines on any street corner. You don't even need an ID to buy Beer or Sake in Japan, you just need a couple hundred Yen.
If an 18 year old is old enough to deploy in combat and put their life on the line for this nation, then they are old enough to drink a friggin beer. I am sick and tired of all this PC Crap going on in the Department of Defense. The moron's making these rules have never put their own life in harms way, they're just a bunch of Liberal PC bureaucrats. DOD needs to be gutted and get rid of these pukes. There's no reason a young Marine can't drink as long as they are doing so responsibly.
I also agree however that orders are orders and that the young Marines in question were in the wrong for violating them. That doesn't change that fact that the rules in question are total BS though.

GunnyL

greensideout
11-20-04, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by enviro

In the year 2000, a total of 41,821 people were killed in traffic crashes in America, and 16,653 (or about 40%) of those fatalities involved alcohol. A large number of those were military.


Come on, how many Marines have a car in Japan?

Maj. Lukehart is a jurk, that's all. This artical does not show leadership by him but instead it shows him as a control freak!

May the drums begin to roll. Yes, drum him out of the Corps!

yellowwing
11-20-04, 09:48 PM
Welcome to the "New Right", or Moral Majority, or whatever they call it now.

If they could, the ACLU would challenge this Maj. Lukehart. Heck even the NAACP is under attack now.

greensideout
11-20-04, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by GunnyL
I was 17 when I enlisted. Hell, I picked up LCPL time in grade 11 days before my 18th Birthday. I went to bars every weekend my first year in the Corps. They never looked at the back of my Military ID for the age, they just assumed. I went to Japan when I was 18 and they changed the drinking age in CONUS to 21 while I was in Japan. We didn't abide by the CONUS drinking age and the Japanese can drink at 18 as well. If you've never been to Japan, they have Beer and Sake machines on any street corner. You don't even need an ID to buy Beer or Sake in Japan, you just need a couple hundred Yen.
If an 18 year old is old enough to deploy in combat and put their life on the line for this nation, then they are old enough to drink a friggin beer. I am sick and tired of all this PC Crap going on in the Department of Defense. The moron's making these rules have never put their own life in harms way, they're just a bunch of Liberal PC bureaucrats. DOD needs to be gutted and get rid of these pukes. There's no reason a young Marine can't drink as long as they are doing so responsibly.
I also agree however that orders are orders and that the young Marines in question were in the wrong for violating them. That doesn't change that fact that the rules in question are total BS though.

GunnyL

Where do you want to go Gunny? I will follow!

The distinguishing mark between you and the Major is very clear.

You are in touch with your Marines.

The Major just has his nose in a book that might help his career. At least he thinks it will. Wrong!

greensideout
11-20-04, 09:57 PM
The "New Right"?---lol. And what would that be?

More right then the "Old Right"?

Doc Crow
11-20-04, 10:30 PM
Damn I can not even believe this crap is coming up in the Corps. Of course I have always said I find it funny that you can die for the country but you can not drink. I use to make sure that all my unde age guys had at least beer but as a senior NCO I always made sure they were taken care of even if that meant sneaking them in a damn roof vent to avoid the guard. I have put guys through windows to let them have their fun. It amazes me to know end Some officers are just not right for the corps. Did these guys screw up yep they did but NJP. I can remember standing in front of the Chief, Company Gunny and Sgt Maj and getting my as% ripped from one end to the other and then cleaning ****ter's for a week but no NJP. even had the Company Gunny tell me that I was to bring him $50 out of my next pay check and that was part of what I owed for helping bust up Mama Sans Bar. everyone who was involved had to pay no NJP.

Toby M
11-20-04, 10:38 PM
The brass may be tightening up on rules due to those rapes a couple of years ago by Marines in Japan. (I could be wrong but I think those incidents were in Japan.) If memory serves me, the incidents involved young Marines on alcohol. If I am wrong, I appologize for the mis-information.

Doc Crow
11-20-04, 10:42 PM
No matter what you do many times no matter what the age Instant AS% Hole just add Alcohol

drillinstructor
11-23-04, 07:10 PM
instant obedience to orders could possibly save your lif someday.....better it may save your platoons life...they were wrong and maybe other courses of action could of been applied but I do not fault the ZERO for making his statement known to the Wingers

greensideout
11-23-04, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by drillinstructor
instant obedience to orders could possibly save your lif someday.....better it may save your platoons life...they were wrong and maybe other courses of action could of been applied but I do not fault the ZERO for making his statement known to the Wingers

Not look'in for a pi**ing contest here but---------

The Marines were out of line.

The Marines tried to get away with what they could to have a good time as they saw it.

Some tightening up of the NCO's could have helped.

The UCMJ was NOT necessary, not even maybe.

These are Marines, not recruits---Bark at their a** and it will be done. That's the NCO's job!

The Major is out of line, he was wrong in the way that he handled the disipline of the Marines under his command.