a new weapon...

[yurkonis05]

i heard of a new weapon possibly coming out for the MC soon and i was just wondering if anyone else has heard of it? its called the XM8 and it supposed to be a pretty good weapon. im not sure of its date of impliment yet but i heard it may be soon. so if anyone knows anything about this new weapon and when it would be out it would be great, and when i ship (6 sept 05) will i b training on it? also HAPPY BIRTHDAY to all US Marines!! SEMPER FI!

[mississippiboy]

The rifle is has been tested by the army at Ft. Benning, GA. It is going to be called the M8. It is going to be made in Columbus, GA by H&K

Caliber Capacity Length Width Height Barrel Length Weight
5.56 mm 10/30/100 rds 29.8 in 2.34 in 9.17 in 12.5 in 6.2 lb

The XM8 Future Combat Rifle is intended to replace existing M4 Carbines and select 5.56mm x45 weapons in the US Army arsenal beginning as early as the fourth quarter of FY05.

In October 2002 ATK (Alliant Techsystems) was awarded a $5 million contract modification from the U.S. Army Armament Research, Development, and Engineering Center (ARDEC), Picatinny, N.J., to develop the new XM8 Lightweight Assault Rifle. ATK Integrated Defense, Plymouth, Minn., and teammate Heckler and Koch, Oberndorf, Germany, will support the rapid development program, which will investigate the potential of the XM8 as the lightweight assault rifle for the Army's Objective Force.

The XM8 will be based on the kinetic energy weapon that is part of the XM29 next-generation infantry weapon system (formerly the Objective Individual Combat Weapon) currently under development by ATK Integrated Defense. The kinetic energy weapon, which fires 5.56mm ammunition, will provide maximum commonality in components and logistics with the XM29 system.

The XM8 will provide lethality performance comparable to the currently fielded M4 carbine rifle, while weighing 20 percent less than the M4 because of advanced technologies developed for the XM29 program.

The XM8 Lightweight Assault Rifle will reduce the 21st century soldier's load and increase his mobility - two very important aims of the Army's Objective Force Warrior and Land Warrior initiatives. The progress made to reduce weight and improve performance on the XM29 program is key to the decision on accelerating the development of the XM8, which is integrated with the Army's efforts to transform to a more lethal and rapidly deployed fighting force as part of its Objective Force.

ATK Integrated Defense is the system integrator on the XM29 program. Teammates on the program are Heckler and Koch, weapon development; ATK Ammunition Systems, Arden Hills, Minn., ammunition development; Brashear LP, Pittsburgh, Pa., integrated full solution fire control; and Omega, Columbus, Ga., training systems.

The XM8 is a true family of weapons with different barrel lengths designed to address all the needs of an infantry squad. The standard model is expected to be lighter than the M4 carbine and no larger in size. There‘s also a sharpshooter version for increased range; a compact version for cramped quarters; and an auto-rifle version for a squad-automatic weapon. The XM8 family has a 9-inch compact, 12.5-inch carbine and a 20-inch sharpshooter and automatic rifle. The 12.5-inch carbine is 6.4 pounds with an objective of 5.7 pounds and is 33 inches with its adjustable stock extended. The M-16 A2 is 39.63 inches long and 8.79 pounds with a 30-round magazine.

Internally, the XM8 uses a rotary locking bolt system that functions and fieldstrips like those used in the M-16 rifle and M-4 carbine, according to the XM8 manufacturer’s — Heckler & Koch — Website. The bolt is powered by a unique gas operating system with a user-removable gas piston and pusher rod to operate the mechanism. Unlike the current M-4 and M-16 direct gas system with gas tube, the XM8 gas system does not introduce propellant gases and carbon back into the weapon’s receiver during firing.

While the XM8 was not exposed to battlefield conditions, it‘s still a feat the current service rifle hasn‘t come close to rivaling, said Rich Audette, deputy project manager for PM Soldier Weapons. During their Oct. 20-23 2003 trip to Germany, the weapons experts said they were impressed after watching Heckler & Koch engineers fire four high-capacity magazines, with 100 rounds a piece, in less than five minutes.

This improved reliability can be credited to differences in the XM8‘s operating system from the one in the M16. For instance, a thin gas tube runs almost the entire length of the barrel in all of the M16 variants. When the weapon is fired, the gases travel back down the tube into the chamber and push the bolt back to eject the shell casing and chamber a new round. The XM8‘s gas system instead is connected to a mechanical operating rod, which pushes back the bolt to eject the casing and chamber the new round each time the weapon is fired. So there‘s no carbon residue constantly being blown back into the chamber, reducing the need to clean the weapon as often. You don‘t get gases blowing back into the chamber that have contaminates in them. The XM8 also has a much tighter seal between the bolt and the ejection port, which should cut down on the amount of debris that can blow into the weapon when the ejection port‘s dust cover is open.

The XM8 is part of the Army‘s effort to perfect an over-and-under style weapon, known as the XM29, developed by Alliant Techsystems and H&K. It fires special air-bursting projectiles and standard 5.56mm ammunition. But the XM29 still is too heavy and unwieldy for Army requirements. Instead of scrapping the XM29, the Army decided to perfect each of XM29‘s components separately, so soldiers can take advantage of new technology sooner. The parts would be brought back together when lighter materials become available. The XM8 is one of those components.

From December 2003 through late May 2004, soldiers got a chance to fire the prototypes in desert, tropical and arctic environments. A limited-user test then was conducted, possibly at Fort Campbell, Ky., where soldiers test the prototypes for about three weeks while training in offensive and defensive scenarios. Improvements will be made based on soldier and test feedback before the final three-months of operational tests, which are scheduled to begin in fall 2004. The final decision will be up to the Army‘s senior leadership, but weapons officials said they were confident the XM8 weapon system will be adopted. If all goes well, the XM8 could be ready for fielding by late summer 2005.

Beginning life as the 5.56mm KE (kinetic energy) component of the 20mm air-bursting XM29 Objective Individual Combat Weapon (OICW), the XM8 Lightweight Modular Carbine System represents the state-of-the-art in 5.56x45mm NATO assault rifles. Developed by the US Army’s office of Project Manager for Soldier Weapons located at Picatinny Arsenal, New Jersey in close conjunction with the US Army Infantry Center, the XM8 Future Combat Rifle is intended to replace existing M4 Carbines and select 5.56mm x45 weapons in the US Army arsenal beginning as early as the fourth quarter of FY05. Once adopted, the M8 Carbine will replace the aging M16/M4 family of weapons, which have been in service for nearly four decades, longer than any previous US service rifle. The M8 Carbine will be up to 20% lighter than a comparably equipped M4 Carbine MWS and yet offer additional features and performance unavailable currently in any assault rifle in the world.

As a direct development of the separable OICW (XM29) KE or Kinetic Energy module, the M8 Carbine will share a high degree of common parts and training and maintenance procedures to lessen the required support for the “family” of XM8 weapons. Being developed are four XM8 variants, which include a baseline carbine, a sharpshooter variant, an automatic rifle variant, and the ultra-compact carbine variant. A unique feature of the XM8 modular weapon system is the ability to easily and quickly reconfigure the weapon from one variant to the other to meet changing mission requirements, to include caliber conversion.

This modularity includes the exchange of interchangeable assembly groups such as the barrel, handguard, lower receiver, buttstock modules and sighting system with removable carrying handle. In addition and in parallel, the new XM320 quick detachable single-shot 40mm grenade launcher with side-opening breech and LSS lightweight 12 gauge shotgun module can be easily added to the XM8 by the user in the field without tools. The unique buttstock system allows the operator exchange buttstocks without tools from the standard collapsible multi-position version, to an optional buttcap for maximum portability or an optional folding or sniper buttstock with adjustable cheekpiece for special applications. Internally the XM8 employs a combat-proven robust rotary locking bolt system that functions and fieldstrips like that used in the current M16 rifle and M4 carbine. However this bolt is powered by a unique gas operating system that employs a user removable gas piston and pusher rod to operate the mechanism. Unlike the current M4/M16 direct gas system with gas tube, the XM8 gas system does not introduce propellant gases and the associated carbon fouling back into the weapon’s receiver during firing. This greatly increases the reliability of the XM8 while at same time reducing operator cleaning time by as much as 70%. This system also allows the weapon to fire more than 15,000 rounds without lubrication or cleaning in even the worst operational environments. A cold hammer forged barrel will guarantee a minimum of 20,000 rounds service life and ultimate operator safety in the event of an obstructed bore occurrence.

The XM8 has fully ambidextrous operating controls to include a centrally located charging handle that doubles as an ambidextrous forward assist when required, ambidextrous magazine release, bolt catch, safety/selector lever with semi and full automatic modes of fire and release lever for the multiple position collapsible buttstock. The operating controls allow the operator to keep the firing hand on the pistol grip and the weapon in the firing position at all times while the non-firing hand actuates the charging handle and magazine during loading and clearing. Major components of the weapon are produced from high-strength fiber reinforced polymer materials that can be molded in almost any color to include OD green, desert tan, arctic white, urban blue, brown and basic black. Surfaces on the XM8 that interface with the operator are fitted with non-slip materials to increase comfort and operator retention. The XM8 uses 10 or 30-round semi-transparent box magazines and high-reliability 100-round drum magazines for sustained fire applications.

Special integral flush mounted attachment points are located on the handguard and receiver to allow the quick attachment of targeting devices. Unlike MIL-STD-1913 rails, the XM8 attachment points do not add additional weight, bulk and cost to the host weapon, and will accept MIL-STD-1913 adapters to allow for the use of current in-service accessories. The attachment points for the standard multi-function integrated red-dot sight allow multiple mounting positions and insure 100% zero retention even after the sight is removed and remounted. The battery powered XM8 sight includes the latest technology in a red dot close combat optic, IR laser aimer and laser illuminator with back-up etched reticle with capability exceeding that of the current M68-CCO, AN/PEQ-2 and AN/PAQ-4. This sight will be factory zeroed on the weapon when it is delivered and does not require constant rezeroing in the field like current rail-mounted targeting devices. The XM8 will be fully compatible with future Land Warrior technology and components.

The US XM8 Carbine is being designed at the HK Defense design center in Sterling, Virginia and will be produced and assembled in the United States at the new Heckler & Koch manufacturing plant located in Columbus, Georgia, adjacent to Fort Benning. The unit cost of the XM8 will be less than that of the current M4 Carbine and will guarantee the American war fighter uncompromising performance far exceeding that of current in-service M4 Carbines.

[yellowwing]

I trained in the M-16A1. It was a fine weapon for precision shooting up to 500 yards.

i just don't trust its end result kinetic/kill energy at that range. If you've done your M16 development research, the "5.56" was a very lethal round at the initial design specs. Well, the initial Feet Per Second had to be slowed down.

I have yet to meet any M-14 "7.62" veterans that prefer the 5.56 weapons.

Some of you have seen some of the the underground Iraq combat footage. I saw one where an insurgent fired an RPG and them came under 5.56 fire. He was struck about three times and was still able to start to crawl away. Finally a 5.56 round struck him in the head and he stopped for good.

My argument is that the 5.56 did not produce a dramatic catastrophic kill. He just stopped moving.

An M-14 7.62 round would have sent bits and peices of his brain housing everywhere!

Ballistic arugements aside for the moment, consider the PsyOps angle. Once second you are cheering on your Uncle Salesh to fire and RPG. Then in the next seconds he is simply not moving anymore.

Or, you are cheering your Uncle Salesh then suddenly his brains and guts are smeared on your filthy robe.

Point being, WTF are the military buyers still so in love with the 5.56? You can't even legally hunt deer with a 5.56 (.223) round in any US state.

Arma-Lite Corps makes a killing selling Colt M-16 knock-offs. Their biggest sellers are the AR-15s in the .308 caliber models.

The end result of supply/demand economics is pretty convincing data.

[mississippiboy]

I also am in favor of larger caliber rifles. Being a hunter I have always appreciated the "knock down power" of a .308 or 7mm. I personally do not like using anything less than a .270. It is an accurate round with plenty of power if you convert it to metric you are basically firing a 6.85mm round. I have used a .243 and .223 for hunting before bans of the .223 and did not get the quick kill results. Basically as you said there is just not the amount of power there in those caliber rounds. Highly accurate yes, but there are always drawbacks. The only problem i really see with larger caliber rounds is recoil which could result in decreased accuracy over sustained rate of fire.

[yellowwing]

Bah!- a good stock weld trained by a good PMI. I've heard tale of PMIs getting a good stock weld with an M-14 lodged in their groin and firing 3 rounds.

[cjwright90]

You are also adding the weight back with 7.62 weapons.

[GunnerMike]

Originally posted by yellowwing
I trained in the M-16A1. It was a fine weapon for precision shooting up to 500 yards.

i just don't trust its end result kinetic/kill energy at that range. If you've done your M16 development research, the "5.56" was a very lethal round at the initial design specs. Well, the initial Feet Per Second had to be slowed down.

I have yet to meet any M-14 "7.62" veterans that prefer the 5.56 weapons.

Some of you have seen some of the the underground Iraq combat footage. I saw one where an insurgent fired an RPG and them came under 5.56 fire. He was struck about three times and was still able to start to crawl away. Finally a 5.56 round struck him in the head and he stopped for good.

My argument is that the 5.56 did not produce a dramatic catastrophic kill. He just stopped moving.

An M-14 7.62 round would have sent bits and peices of his brain housing everywhere!

Ballistic arugements aside for the moment, consider the PsyOps angle. Once second you are cheering on your Uncle Salesh to fire and RPG. Then in the next seconds he is simply not moving anymore.

Or, you are cheering your Uncle Salesh then suddenly his brains and guts are smeared on your filthy robe.

Point being, WTF are the military buyers still so in love with the 5.56? You can't even legally hunt deer with a 5.56 (.223) round in any US state.

Arma-Lite Corps makes a killing selling Colt M-16 knock-offs. Their biggest sellers are the AR-15s in the .308 caliber models.

The end result of supply/demand economics is pretty convincing data.

I think that this is what you are referring to, the AR-10A4; my most recent addition to the vault.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v165/GunnerMike/AR-10A4.jpg

7.62 X 51mm rounds weigh more but require fewer rounds/kill.

[cjwright90]

:)
That is why we place well placed rounds down range.

[ramy]

I heard that the xm-8 project was put on hold or cancelled altogether due to cost over runs.

[Caesar Augustus]

I know that there was another Co that was producing another variant of the M16 that used a 6.8 round.

[tatted1]

The 5.56 round itself it not designed to actually kill, its designed to wound the person its being fired at so it takes him and another person out of the battle for a short time. What they don't get with the war in Iraq is that the other insurgents aren't stopping to carry off the other wounded. Most of the wounded that can't make it anywhere, just vaporize themselves and try to take as many of us out when they do. If it was up to me, I would pick up one of their weapons and use that. The 7.62x39 is bigger and made to do more damage. I believe some of the CO's are actually letting the troops do that since the AK-47 is more reliable in those conditions.

[GunnyL]

http://www.thelangleys.net/images/SoldierTech_Lapua-1.jpg
STINGS LIKE A BEE: The .338 Lapua and the ERMA SR100
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


It consistently outperforms NATO's most common-used sniper rifles, claims an MOA of .2, and can pierce body armor at ranges of up to 1,000 meters. Since its inception, the .338-chambered SR100 sniper rifle has been a popular -- and deadly -- preference for sharpshooters.

A mighty one-two combination: The .338 Lapua and the ERMA SR100 (Photo courtesy of http://world.guns.ru).

ERMA SR100: Killer Features

Name:
ERMA SR100

Type of Equipment:
Sniper Rifle

Killer Features:
Multi-caliber offering: the 7.62mm NATO, .300 Winchester magnum (WINMAG) and the .338 Lapua Magnum
Custom fit check and butt pads to mach the shooter's shooting style
A hefty price tag of $9000

They're light, accurate and deadly - the preference of elite teams such as Germany's GSG9. Since 1983, .338 chambered rifles have given elite sniper teams the world over a suitable weapon for mobile, tactical long-range sniper operations. The most prolific of these rifles? The SR100.

Used in tandem with the .338 Lapua long-range sniper cartridges, the SR100 packs a powerful punch. In fact, the best way to characterize the relationship between the .338 Lapua cartridge and the ERMA SR100 sniper rifle would be to place it in boxing terms -- a one-two combination. As Muhammad Ali would say, it stings like a bee.

Developed by the Research Armament Company for the U.S. Navy in the 80s, the .338 Lapua fills in the gap between standard (7.62mm chambered) sniper rifles, and the heavy, special purpose .50 caliber rifles. Modified by Lapua Ltd. in Finland in the mid 1980s, the production cartridge is based on a modified .416 Rigby cartridge and is capable of driving a 250-grain bullet at roughly 3,000 fps out to 1,500 meters. Now that's one heck of a punch!

What makes the .338 Lapua chambered rifle so impressive? Its capabilities. The .338-chambered SR100 was designed to penetrate 5 layers of military body armor and still make the kill. Nasty. As one soldier we know put it: "If this rifle's aimed at you, you're dead."

While the .50 caliber BMG rifles, such as the Barret M107, remain the undisputed kings of long range anti-personnel/ anti-material shooting, their heavy weight (26+ pounds) and high recoil/ muzzle blast signature, make them less suitable for mobile, tactical long range sniping operations than would a .338 Lapua chambered rifle.

A one-two blow even the great Muhammad Ali would shy away from!
Additionally, .338 chambered rifles (such as the Erma SR100) are only a couple of pounds heavier than "stock" sniper rifles, yet they offer nearly double the range and down range energy of their counterparts (7.62mm rifles are accurate to between 600-800m whereas the 338 Lapua is accurate out to 1,500m).

In essence, the .338 Lapua is the first and only caliber designed specifically for sniping.

Hey, ERMA!

Designed and built in Germany by Erfurter Maschinenfabrik (now Suhler und Sportwaffen, a division of Steyr-Mannlicher) the ERMA SR100 is an uncompromising and unparalleled sniper rifle. Amongst it features: a multi-caliber offering. It can quickly change between three different barrels in three different calibers: the 7.62mm NATO, .300 Winchester magnum (WINMAG) and, of course, the .338 Lapua Magnum. The SR100 can be converted to any one of these three calibers in a matter of minutes by swapping out the barrel, bolt assembly, and the magazine, which makes the SR100 a wonderful weapon to have in numerous sniper operations.

Moreover, the SR100 is customizable. The stock of the SR100 is laminated wood and features fully adjustable cheek and butt pads, which allows the shooter to custom fit the rifle to their specific shooting style. The SR100 is also equipped with an integral bipod, as well as a stock mounted "foot" to completely stabilize the rifle for long range (1,000+m) shooting. Lastly, the SR100 features a fully adjustable match grade trigger.

With a price tag of $9000, the SR100 isn't exactly the cheapest sniper rifle in the world, but given its features it can be classified as a first-rate weapon. In tandem with the .338 caliber Lapua, the SR100 can even be called an outstanding weapon - the choice of elite sniper teams.

Overall, the combination punch of the .338 chambered SR100 is a force to reckon with (and a blow even the great Muhammad Ali would shy away from).

SR100 Specifications
Caliber: 7.62x51mm NATO .300 Win Mag .338 Lapua Mag
Weight: 14 lbs (6.4kg) 15.2 lbs (6.9kg) 15.2 lbs (6.9kg)
Length: 49.6" (126cm) 53.5" (136cm) 53.5" (136cm)
Barrel Length: 26" (650mm) 29.5" (750mm) 29.5" (750mm)
Barrel Twist: 1 in 12" (304.8mm) 1 in 10" (254mm) 1 in 10" (254mm)
Mag. Capacity: 10 8 5

http://www.military.com

[yellowwing]

designed to penetrate 5 layers of military body armor and still make the kill...$9,000
SWEET! That's a bargain. :)

[SuNmAN]

Wow...a CWO4 Marine Gunner on deck...I wish I could get a chance to meet one and pick his brain sometime !

*salutes the CWO4*

[hrscowboy]

ha ha ha yeah sunman i just bet you would....

[SuNmAN]

Originally posted by hrscowboy
ha ha ha yeah sunman i just bet you would....

I can see him ripping me apart for being nasty or something already !

Actually I remember at Edson Range during boot camp I had a CWO4, CWO4 Garcia teach me not to focus on the target, but focus on the front sight tip :-) He said he hits black with the M16 at 1000 yds (must be amazing because M16A2 max range point target is only 550 meters) and 500 yards is nothing. I shot 45/50 on the 500 yard line thanks to him.

He wasn't a Gunner though (didnt have a bursting bomb)