View Full Version : Liberals Challenge Swift Vets

08-17-04, 05:38 AM
MoveOn.org's Swift Response to Anti-Kerry Ad <br />
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By Howard Kurtz <br />
Tuesday, August 17, 2004; Page A08 <br />
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A liberal organization is taking to the airwaves today to challenge an ad by a group of Navy...

08-17-04, 06:47 AM
Hoffman thought that Kerry was a warrior back when he was awarded the Silver Star and Bronze Star. Now that he has turned his back on being a navy lifer; Hoffman felt rejected and has rallied against him. There was a wonderful story in the LA Times back in July about Kerry's war record and most recently in Vanity Fair by David Halbertson.

Hoffman is not to be taken seriously - he is really the admiral of flip flop

08-17-04, 07:15 AM
May 6: "Hoffman acknowledged he had no first-hand knowledge to discredit Kerry's claims to valor and said that although Kerry was under his command, he really didn't know Kerry much personally." [Milwaukee Journal Sentinel]

August 4: "'I knew him well enough to know him," Hoffman said. 'He's the most vain individual I've ever met - aloof and arrogant.'" [Scripps Howard News Service]

August 5: Hoffman said, "We were on the same operations, we were operating within 25-50 yards of him all the time, and for them to suggest we don't know John Kerry is pure old bull." [The New York Times]

August 5: In response to Senator John McCain's (R-AZ) denunciation of the ad, Hoffman "said they respected McCain's 'right to express his opinion and we hope he extends to us the same respect and courtesy, particularly since we served with John Kerry, we knew him well and Sen. McCain did not.'" [Associated Press]

August 5: Hoffman said, "I knew him well, because I operated very closely with him and, uh, many of the operations, uh, most of the operations were-were conducted with multiple boats" - a dramatic shift from admitting no personal knowledge of Kerry three months earlier; it went unchallenged by his host. [ABC Radio's Sean Hannity Show]

Currently of the top 8 stories on the MoveOn page, only 3 are direct attacks on the administration. MoveOn even supports the donate your airmiles to the overseas troop's Operation Hero Miles proram.

08-17-04, 05:10 PM
Knowing HIM personally and knowing HIM on a professional level are two different things. I'm sure you have people at work that you "know" but still do not associate with on a personal level.

Lets not play the samantics game. Why is it that noone is wanting to give the same credit of honesty to the 60 veterans who were in the same unit as Kerry and on missions with him and some even in the boat with him. Funny I don't hear the boatmates that support Kerry contradicting anything that these other vets have said and documented.

Kerry just needs to release his records as Bush did and let the people see the truth. Kerry has already recanted his "Christmas Story". It would be nice to Drop this Vietnam issue and get to current issues but somehow Kerry keeps coming back to his Vietnam record as a war hero. Funny how he wants to use it but doesn't want to be scrutinized about it.

08-17-04, 05:31 PM
In regard to the second paragraph above, perhaps you should do some research before you make such claims. Shortly after the swift boats guys for truth or whatever they are called came out with their...

08-17-04, 05:40 PM
what "atrocities" happened in a prison? as for what is happening in this war? well, from the freinds and relatives I have who are in Iraq, haven't heard of any perpetuated by OUR side.

08-17-04, 05:49 PM
You may be right I wasn't there. My beef is that the Media goes after Bush like sharks in blood infested waters and leaves Kerry alone. That is not honest or fair. Have Kerry come out with a release on his records and let the people see what is written. I'm not nieve to think that records reflect everything that happened but it's a start.

As to the NY Times, I'll admit I have somewhat of a bias against them but am willing to look up the article. I haven't heard or read any discredit of the Vets for Truth.

As for Defaming Kerry, I don't believe anyone from the BUSH team has gone after him for his Nam service. Seems to be outside groups. Hands down, Kerry was there, that I respect. However, if he defamed our veterans by being dishonest for his personal gain, that is unforgivable.

You know better than "some order came from the President to have them get naked and stack up on a pile" .. Come on!

08-17-04, 09:48 PM
Car, what ever happened to the theory that the skipper is responsible?

The way I look at it, if he (the prez) didn't know, he was, at the minimum, lax in his duty, at the maximum, a participant.

08-17-04, 10:35 PM
That argument (theory) can only go so far. Be honest with yourself and you know that this is not a clear cut blanket statement. Of course things happen that the "boss" does not know about or can HONESTLY be held accountable for.

As for being lax in his duty... I would hope that the President of the United States had better things to do than to put his nose into some prison thousands of miles away to make sure that noone was making them walk around naked. The ARMY was handling the problem BEFORE any media even reported it. It was mentioned months before the BIG STORY broke. The fact that the ARMY (US Gov) was already investigating shows that the "management level" was doing it's job. Should a President be held accountable for the bad behavior of a PFC's DUI? Fight?

If you want to look at lax in his duty.... Yes, you guessed it ...Clinton. What a shame he brought to the office. I served part of my time under his administration and I got to see first hand how the bases where cut to shreds and how the USMC was being downsized. Intel cut, Equipment cut, Man power cut, reenlistments down, morale down and so on. NOW the Libs are crying that the US doesn't have enough manpower or equipment to fight this war. NOW, President Bush is not supplying our troops or we don't have enough military. Sound familiar? You can't increase a military overnight, and any honest evaluation tells us that our military was under equiped years ago. The fact that our guys and gals are awesome doesn't justify years of cuts.

08-17-04, 10:49 PM
Thats what we get when the army tries to run things with reserves and not regular army................

08-18-04, 08:03 AM
Car, my point is that somebody should have gotten the ax over this. Ya fold a sweater wrong at the GAP and you get fired.

08-18-04, 09:38 AM
"didn't see the atrocities that Kerry claims occurred"

JOHN KERRY didn't see the atrocities that he claims occurred. This he admitted this himself on many occasions.

GUTS? He's a traitor to everyone in uniform. He put people's lives at risk by coming home and generalizing that everyone in Vietnam is raping, pillaging, maiming, and killing innocents. He met with the enemy after the war. He embraced the likes of Jane Fonda.

I don't need the Swift Vets to tell me this - John Kerry has presented this for himself with senate testimony, public records, and his actions.

And you, docsavage, are bordering very close to the disgusting slam that John Kerry put on his fellow vets. All of you who served in Vietnam know better? I would say speak for yourself. You may have seen it and you may have done it - that's your cross to bear. You can't tell me from 1961 to 1975 that everyone in country witnessed and/or committed atrocities. Hey - I could be wrong - I wasn't there. But I doubt it.

My war is the current one. As a veteran of the current war, I will tell you that Abu Gharib is isolated. And any jackass that comes home telling congress that we all committed atrocities will get his balls cut off. "Administrations" don't run military prisons. The military does. The military is made up of fallible human beings that from time to time will screw it up.

No one is defaming John Kerry. The accusations have been proven and are credible. You seem to be more worried about it than John Kerry. You call it defamation. John Kerry doesn't dispute most of it. He can't. Maybe you have some proof otherwise? Help the fellow out and give it to him. You again will be one of the few - only this time I wonder if one of the proud.