View Full Version : Where is My George Bush Thread?

08-16-04, 07:59 PM
It is ok to bash Kerry without defense, but one can not point out the mess the president has put the country in. I am a Marine Corps vietnam vet same as a lot of you, but my voice is suppressed by the moderator - looks like a republican forum to me and i certainly don't want anything to do with it - is ann coulter running this thing?

08-16-04, 09:18 PM
Apparently lies & inuendos involving a US Senator are allowed.

Fair & Balanced like FOX news. uf da!

08-16-04, 10:23 PM
If Kerry wins, then I expect you to use the same standards.

08-16-04, 10:25 PM
Shaffer wiil, Kerry won't :D

08-16-04, 11:29 PM
The "Truth" shall set you free...
We may never in our lifetime know the "truth".
Will historians in the future know what decisions were made in regards to Iraq?
We question Kerry's service in Vietnam.
We must also question the "why" of this Executive Order.
The "Truth" shall set you free...
But we may ask what is the "truth"...
Respectifully submitted...

Semper Fidelis/Semper Fi

08-17-04, 02:03 AM
Kerry is not being bashed totally without defense. Me a few others repeatedly point out researched inaccuracies or counter opinions.

Incumbents always have a political advantage. Kerry-Edwards will not be able to get great photo ops at Service Academy graduations, or show up at military installations to give speeches to the troops.

The George Bush Sr campaign kept hammering on the "Slick-Willie" innuendo with, "Who do you trust?" In the end the country said, "We trust Bill," twice.

I think the current GOP strategy of hammering on "Flip-flop" is going to fail in the same way. The public is more intelligent and has much more information available on what is currently going on. They won't swallow the same negative theme.

The Presidential Debates will be a huge deciding factor.

08-17-04, 10:23 PM
My question is other than this iraq war and sept 11 what has president bush done for this country....

08-18-04, 01:05 AM
My guess is that if you have to ask, you probably wouldn't understand anyways.

Most of us have done our research on Kerry. Most of us don't like what we have found.

Likewise, we have done our research on the current President.

What gets me is that there are been little or no hardcore facts or reputable sources when you anti-Bush folks take a shot at the president. Most of the shots taken at Kerry have been backed up with credible sources.

Seriously, if you don't like the President, then just say so. But be warned - you need to give good reason around here.

IF you truely like John Kerry, PLEASE tell us why. Convince me. I won't change my vote based on "Bush is bad". That just won't cut it.

If you are apathetic and don't like any of them, then just refrain from participating in the politics discussion concerning Bush and Kerry. Nothing constructive will be said by stating "Both of them suck".

Get to the issues. We can debate the war, we can debate the economy, we can even dabate homosexuals. But seriously, debating the issue of which candidate sucks more will get nowhere.

I'm laying down the guantlet. Looking for the liberals - let's debate it.

08-18-04, 05:51 AM
First of all enviro where you got the thought i was for john kerry is beyond me. There is alot of things that kerry has said and done that upsets me to the point that i am seriously debating not voting at all this time for the election of President of united states.
again i ask you to show me what this president has done for this country other than the iraq war. Has this president listened to other alternates of energy other than crude oil, so we as people of the united states dont have to be tied down to high gas prices because some fat cat in iraq can dictate what where going to pay for grude oil. Has our president done anything about all these illegal aliens that are taking jobs away from americans for lower wages? i can tell you for a fact that right here in Kansas City Kansas that well over 1200 illegal aliens where arrested in this city last month for having no insurance on vehicles no drivers lic and illegal tags that where stolen from other vehicles. did this tax cut that everyones been talking about help the poor man hell no it didnt. all these military bases that all these other presidents have closed has this president reopened those bases and started using them again to build our strength? This president signed into law the No Child left behind law but yet has there been anymore government money turned over to these schools to give our children and grand children a better education. I know for a fact that in 1969 the population was not as great as it is now. I also know that in 1969 The farmer was feeding 73 people including himself and now in 2004 that same farmer is feeding 128 people including himself and still getting the same price for a bushel of corn that he did in 1969. you sir being and enviromental man should know yourself of GASOHOL it may cost alittle more to refine it but dang sure wouldnt cost 45.00 a barrel to buy it from a damn raghead. Buttom line is enviro i voted for GW bush the first time and he hasnt showed this MARINE anything but broken promises just like the other ones. As far as the war in irag i support the fight on terriost Bush showed me he had some nutts about himself there and i support him on that.

08-18-04, 06:15 AM

You're not the only person to ask name one thing that the President has done since 9/11.
Well, for my two cents worth, the President's tax cut has given me roughly $10 more a week in my paycheck with enough tax withholding at the end of the year where I don't have to pay into the system. This, after years of having to have extra money withheld from my checks on top of the stated withholding amount just to break even on my tax forms.
$10 may not seem like a lot, but when you add that to the extra I always had to have withheld from my check, it adds up.
For those out there who want to slam my post saying the rich get richer, my earnings are well below your oft-stated $50,000+ a year category.

08-18-04, 09:51 AM
Abortion & Traditional Values

1. Banned Partial Birth Abortion — by far the most significant roll-back of abortion on demand since Roe v. Wade.

2. Reversed Clinton's move to strike Reagan's anti-abortion Mexico Policy.

3. By Executive Order (EO), reversed Clinton's policy of not requiring parental consent for abortions under the Medical Privacy Act.

4. By EO, prohibited federal funds for international family planning groups that provide abortions and related services.

5. Upheld the ban on abortions at military hospitals.

6. Made $33 million available for abstinence education programs in 2004.

7. Supports the Defense of Marriage Act — and a Constitutional amendment saying marriage is between one man and one woman.

8. Requires states to conduct criminal background checks on prospective foster and adoptive parents.

9. Requires districts to let students transfer out of dangerous schools.

10. Requires schools to have a zero-tolerance policy for classroom disruption (reintroducing discipline into classrooms).

11. Signed the Teacher Protection Act, which protects teachers from lawsuits related to student discipline.

12. Expanded the role of faith-based and community organizations in after-school programs.

Budget, Taxes & Economy

1. Signed two income tax cuts, one of which was the largest dollar-value tax cut in world history.

2. Supports permanent elimination of the death tax.

3. Turned around an inherited economy that was in recession, and deeply shocked as a result of the 9/11 attacks.

4. Is seeking legislation to amend the Constitution to give the president line-item veto authority.

5. In process of permanently eliminating IRS marriage penalty.

6. Increased small business incentives to expand and to hire new people.

7. Initiated discussion on privatizing Social Security and individual investment accounts.

8. Killed Clinton's "ergonomic" rules that OSHA was about to implement; rules would have shut down every home business in America.

9. Passed tough new laws to hold corporate criminals to account as a result of corporate scandals.

10. Reduced taxes on dividends and capital gains.

11. Signed trade promotion authority.

12. Reduced and is working to ultimately eliminate the estate tax for family farms and ranches.

13. Fight Europe's ban on importing biotech crops from the United States.

14. Exempt food from unilateral trade sanctions and embargoes.

15. Provided $20 million to states to help people with disabilities work from home.

16. Created a fund to encourage technologies that help the disabled.

17. Increased the annual contribution limit on Education IRA's from $500 to $2,000 per child.

18. Make permanent the $5,000 adoption tax credit and provide $1 billion over five years to increase the credit to $10,000.

19. Grant a complete tax exemption for prepaid or college tuition savings plans.

20. Reduced H1B visas from a high of 195,000 per year to 66,000 per year.

Character & Conduct as President

1. Changed the tone in the White House, restoring HONOR and DIGNITY to the presidency.

2. Has reintroduced the mention of God and faith into public discourse.

3. Handled himself with enormous courage, dignity, grace, determination, and leadership in the aftermath of the September 11, 2001 hijackings and anthrax attacks. He almost single-handedly held this country together during those searing days:

Just three days after the attacks, in his address at the National Cathedral, the President reassured the nation when he said: "War has been waged against us by stealth and deceit and murder. This nation is peaceful, but fierce when stirred to anger. This conflict was begun on the timing and terms of others. It will end in a way, and at an hour, of our choosing."

On Friday, September 14, 2001, President Bush visited Ground Zero. Standing on a crushed and burned fire engine atop the smoldering pile at Ground Zero, he put his arm around a retired firefighter who had volunteered to help, and began speaking to the crowd. Rescue workers shouted that they could not hear him. Someone handed him a small American flag and bullhorn. The President spontaneously shouted: "I can hear you. The rest of the world hears you. And the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon." The crowd roared with cheers and chants of "USA! USA! USA!" Then he raised that American flag and rallied a nation.

Education & Employment Training

1. Signed the No Child Left Behind Act, delivering the most dramatic education reforms in a generation (challenging the soft bigotry of low expectations). The very liberal California Teachers union is currently running radio ads against the accountability provisions of this Act.

2. Announced "Jobs for the 21st Century," a comprehensive plan to better prepare workers for jobs in the new millennium by strengthening post-secondary education and job training, and by improving high school education.

3. Is working to provide vouchers to low-income students in persistently failing schools to help with costs of attending private schools. (Blocked in the Senate.)

4. Requires annual reading and math tests in grades three through eight.

5. Requires states to participate in the National Assessment of Education Progress, or an equivalent program, to establish a national benchmark for academic performance.

6. Requires school-by-school accountability report cards.

7. Established a $2.4 billion fund to help states implement teacher accountability systems.

8. Increased funding for the Troops-to-Teachers program, which recruits former military personnel to become teachers.

Environment & Energy

1. Killed the Kyoto Global Warming Treaty.

2. Submitted a comprehensive Energy Plan (awaits Congressional action). The plan works to develop cleaner technology, produce more natural gas here at home, make America less dependent on foreign sources of energy, improve national grid, etc.

3. Established a $10 million grant program to promote private conservation initiatives.

4. Significantly eased field-testing controls of genetically engineered crops.

5. Changed parts of the Forestry Management Act to allow necessary cleanup of the national forests in order to reduce fire danger.

6. Part of national forests cleanup: Restricted judicial challenges (based on the Endangered Species Act and other challenges), and removed the need for an Environmental Impact Statement before removing fuels/logging to reduce fire danger.

7. Killed Clinton's CO2 rules that were choking off all of the electricity surplus to California.

8. Provided matching grants for state programs that help private landowners protect rare species.

Defense & Foreign Policy

1. Successfully executed two wars in the aftermath of 9/11/01: Afghanistan and Iraq. 50 million people who had lived under tyrannical regimes now live in freedom.

2. Saddam Hussein is now in prison. His two murderous sons are dead. All but a handful of the regime's senior members were killed or captured.

3. Leader by leader and member by member, al Maida is being hunted down in dozens of countries around the world. Of the senior al Qaeda leaders, operational managers, and key facilitators the U.S. Government has been tracking, nearly two-thirds have been taken into custody or killed. The detentions or deaths of senior al Qaeda leaders, including Khalid Shaykh Muhammad, the mastermind of 9/11, and Muhammad Atef, Osama bin Laden's second-in-command until his death in late 2001, have been important in the War on Terror.

4. Disarmed Libya of its chemical, nuclear and biological WMD's without bribes or bloodshed.

5. Continues to execute the War On Terror, getting worldwide cooperation to track funds/terrorists. Has cut off much of the terrorists' funding, and captured or killed many key leaders of the al Qaeda network.

6. Initiated a comprehensive review of our military, which was completed just prior to 9/11/01, and which accurately reported that ASYMMETRICAL WARFARE capabilities were critical in the 21st Century.

7. Killed the old US/Soviet Union ABM Treaty that was preventing the U.S. from deploying our ABM defenses.

8. Has been one of the strongest, if not THE strongest friend Israel has ever hand in the U.S. presidency.

9. Part of the coalition for an Israeli/Palestinian "Roadmap to Peace," along with Great Britain, Russia and the EU.

10. Pushed through THREE raises for our military. Increased military pay by more than $1 billion a year.

11. Signed the LARGEST nuclear arms reduction in world history with Russia.

12. Started withdrawing our troops from Bosnia, and has announced withdrawal of our troops from Germany and the Korean DMZ.

13. Prohibited putting U.S. troops under U.N. command.

14. Paid back UN dues only in return for reforms and reduction of U.S. share of the costs.

15. Earmarked at least 20 percent of the Defense procurement budget for next-generation weaponry.

16. Increased defense research and development spending by at least $20 billion from fiscal 2002 to 2006.

17. Ordered a comprehensive review of military weapons and strategy.

18. Ordered a review of overseas deployments.

19. Ordered renovation of military housing. The military has already upgraded about 10 percent of its inventory and expects to modernize 76,000 additional homes this year.

20. Is working to tighten restrictions on military-technology exports.

21. Brought back our EP-3 intel plane and crew from China without any bribes or bloodshed.

08-18-04, 09:54 AM
Globalization & Internationalism

1. Challenged the United Nations to live up to their responsibilities and not become another League of Nations (in other words, showed the UN to be completely irrelevant).

2. Killed U.S. involvement in the International Criminal Court.

3. Told the United Nations we weren't interested in their plans for gun control (i.e., the International Ban on Small Arms Trafficking Treaty).

4. The only President since the founding of the UN to essentially tell that organization it is irrelevant. He said: "The conduct of the Iraqi regime is a threat to the authority of the United Nations, and a threat to peace. Iraq has answered a decade of UN demands with a decade of defiance. All the world now faces a test, and the United Nations a difficult and defining moment. Are Security Council resolutions to be honored and enforced, or cast aside without consequence? Will the United Nations serve the purpose of its founding, or will it be irrelevant?" We all know the outcome and the answer.

5. Told the Congress and the world, "America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country."

Government Reform

1. Improved government efficiency by putting hundreds of thousands of jobs put up for bid. This weakens public-sector unions and cuts undeserved pay raises.

2. Initiated review of all federal agencies with the goal of eliminating federal jobs (completed September 2003) in an effort to reduce the size of the federal government while increasing private sector jobs.

3. Led the most extensive reorganization the Federal bureaucracy in over 50 years: After 9/11, condensed 20+ overlapping agencies and their intelligence sectors into one agency, the Department of Homeland Security.

4. Ordered each agency to draft a five-year plan to restructure itself, with fewer managers.

5. Converted federal service contracts to performance-based contracts wherever possible so that the contractor has measurable performance goals.


1. Strengthen the National Health Service Corps to put more physicians in the neediest areas, and make its scholarship funds tax-free.

2. Double the research budget of the National Institutes of Health.

3. Signed Medicare Reform, which includes:

A 10-year privatization option.

Prescription drug benefits: Prior to this reform, Medicare paid for extended hospital stays for ulcer surgery, for example, at a cost of about $28,000 per patient. Yet Medicare would not pay for the drugs that eliminate the cause of most ulcers, drugs that cost about $500 a year. Now, drug coverage under Medicare will allow seniors to replace more expensive surgeries and hospitalizations with less expensive prescription medicine.

More health care choices: As President Bush stated, "…when seniors have the ability to make choices, health care plans within Medicare will have to compete for their business by offering higher quality service [at lower cost]. For the seniors of America, more choices and more control will mean better health care. These are the kinds of health care options we give to the members of Congress and federal employees. What's good for members of Congress is also good for seniors.

New Health Savings Accounts: Effective January 1, 2004, Americans can set aside up to $4,500 every year, tax free, to save for medical expenses. Depending on your tax bracket, that means you'll save between 10 to 35 percent on any costs covered by money in your account. Every year, the money not spent would stay in the account and gain interest tax-free, just like an IRA. These accounts will be good for small business owners, and employees. More businesses can focus on covering workers for major medical problems, such as hospitalization for an injury or illness. At the same time, employees and their families will use these accounts to cover doctors visits, or lab tests, or other smaller costs. Some employers will contribute to employee health accounts. This will help more American families get the health care they need at the price they can afford.

Homeland Security, Border Enforcement & Immigration

1. *See Government Reform above. Under President Bush's leadership, America has made an unprecedented commitment to homeland security.

2. Has CONSTRUCTION in process on the first 10 ABM silos in Alaska so that America will have a defense against North Korean nukes. Has ordered national and theater ballistic missile defenses to be deployed by 2004.

3. Announced a 9.7% increase in government-wide homeland security funding in his FY 2005 budget, nearly tripling the FY 2001 levels (excluding the Department of Defense and Project BioShield).

4. Before DHS was created, there were inspectors from three different agencies of the Federal Government and Border Patrol officers protecting our borders. Through DHS, U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) now consolidates all border activities into a single agency to create "one face at the border." This not only better secures the borders of the United States, but it also eliminates many of the inefficiencies that occurred under the old system. With over 18,000 CBP inspectors and 11,000 Border Patrol agents, CBP has 29,000 uniformed officers on our borders.

5. The Border Patrol is continuing installation of monitoring devices along the borders to detect illegal activity.

6. Launched Operation Tarmac to investigate businesses and workers in the secure areas of domestic airports and ensure immigration law compliance. Since 9/11, DHS has audited 3,640 businesses, examined 259,037 employee records, arrested 1,030 unauthorized workers, and participated in the criminal indictment of 774 individuals.

7. Since September 11, 2001, the Coast Guard has conducted more than 124,000 port security patrols, 13,000 air patrols, boarded more than 92,000 vessels, interdicted over 14,000 individuals attempting to enter the United States illegally, and created and maintained more than 90 Maritime Security Zones.

8. Announced the Student and Exchange Visitor Information System (SEVIS), an internet-based system that is improving America's ability to track and monitor foreign students and exchange visitors. Over 870,000 students are registered in SEVIS. Of 285 completed field investigations, 71 aliens were arrested.

9. This week, the US-VISIT program began to digitally collect biometric identifiers to record the entry and exit of aliens who travel into the U.S on a visa. Together with the standard information, this new program will confirm compliance with visa and immigration policies.

10. Eliminated INS bureaucratic redundancies and lack of accountability.

11. Split the Immigration and Naturalization Service into two agencies: one to protect the border and interior, the other to deal with naturalization.

12. Signed the workplace verification bill to prevent hiring of illegal aliens.

13. Established a six-month deadline for processing immigration applications.

14. Information regarding nearly 100% of all containerized cargo is carefully screened by DHS before it arrives in the United States. Higher risk shipments are physically inspected for terrorist weapons and contraband prior to being released from the port of entry.

Judiciary & Tort Reform

1. Is urging federal liability reform to eliminate frivolous lawsuits.

2. Killed the liberal ABA's unconstitutional role in vetting federal judges. The Senate is supposed to advise and consent, not the ABA.

3. Is nominating strong, conservative judges to the judiciary.

4. Supports class action reform bill which limits lawyer fees so that more settlement money goes to victims.


1. His leadership resulted in Republican gains in the House and Senate, solidifying Republican control of both houses of Congress and the presidency.

2. Signed an EO enforcing the Supreme Court's Beck decision regarding union dues being used for political campaigns against individual's wishes.

Second Amendment

1. Ordered Attorney General Ashcroft to formally notify the Supreme Court that the OFFICIAL U.S. government position on the 2nd Amendment is that it supports INDIVIDUAL rights to own firearms, and is NOT a Leftist-imagined "collective" right.

2. Signed TWO bills into law that arm our pilots with handguns in the cockpit.

3. Currently pushing for full immunity from lawsuits for our national gun manufacturers.

Traditional Values, Compassion & Volunteerism

1. Endorses and promotes "The Responsibility Era." President Bush often speaks of the necessity of personal responsibility and civic volunteerism. He said, "In a compassionate society, people respect one another and take responsibility for the decisions they make in life. My hope is to change the culture from one that has said, if it feels good, do it; if you've got a problem, blame somebody else — to one in which every single American understands that he or she is responsible for the decisions that you make; you're responsible for loving your children with all your heart and all your soul; you're responsible for being involved with the quality of the education of your children; you're responsible for making sure the community in which you live is safe; you're responsible for loving your neighbor, just like you would like to be loved yourself."

2. Started the USA Freedom Corps, the most comprehensive clearinghouse of volunteer opportunities ever offered. For the first time in history, Americans can enter geographic information about where they want to get involved, such as state or zip code, as well as areas of interest ranging from education to the environment, and they can access volunteer opportunities offered by more than 50,000 organizations across the country and around the world.

3. Established the The White House Office and the Centers for the Faith-Based and Community Initiative — located in seven Federal agencies. The faith-based initiative supports the essential work of these important organizations. The goal is to make sure that grassroots leaders can compete on an equal footing for federal dollars, receive greater private support, and face fewer bureaucratic barriers. Work focuses on at-risk youth, ex-offenders, the homeless and hungry, substance abusers, those with HIV/AIDS, and welfare-to-work families.

4. The White House released a guidebook fully describing the Administration's belief that faith-based groups have a Constitutionally-protected right to maintain their religious identity through hiring — even when Federal funds are involved.

5. Issued an EO implementing the Supreme Court's Olmstead ruling, which requires moving disabled people from institutions to community-based facilities when possible.

6.Increased funding for low-interest loan programs to help people with disabilities purchase devices to assist them.

7. Revised the Department of Housing and Urban Development's Section 8 rent subsidies to disabled people, permitting them to use up to a year's worth of vouchers to finance down payments on homes. HUD has started pilot programs in 11 states.

8. Committed US funds to purchase medicine for millions of men, women and children now suffering with AIDS in Africa.

9. Heeding the words of our own Declaration of Independence, the president laid out the non-negotiable demands of human dignity for all people everywhere. On January 29, 2002, he said, "No nation owns these aspirations, and no nation is exempt from them. We have no intention of imposing our culture. But America will always stand firm for the non-negotiable demands of human dignity." As stated by the President, they are a virtual manifesto of conservative principles:

08-18-04, 12:32 PM
Since I answered your question about what Bush has done for this country, let me ask in return:

What has John Kerry done for this country besides......

1990-2003: Kerry Voted At Least 12 Times Against Higher Pay For America's Hardworking Volunteer Military.

In 1995 Kerry Voted Against $11.1 Billion For Military Construction, Including $4.3 Billion For Military Family Housing. Kerry was one of only 14 Senators to vote against the funds.

In 1996, Kerry Voted Against $9.9 Billion For Military Construction, Including $4.1 Billion For Military Family Housing. Kerry was one of only 6 Senators to vote against the funds.

Kerry Voted For Use Of Force Resolution Against Iraq. Kerry and Edwards voted for the Congressional resolution authorizing the use of force against Iraq.

Senators Kerry And Edwards Are Two Of Only Four US Senators Who Voted For The Use Of Force Resolution Against Iraq And Against The $87 Billion Funding Bill For Our Troops In Iraq And Afghanistan.

Supplemental Funding Bill Kerry And Edwards Voted Against Provided "Extra Money For Body Armor For Soldiers …" ("Highlights Of Iraq, Afghanistan Measures," The Associated Press, 10/17/03; S. Rept. 108-160, Conference Report On S. 1689, 10/2/03)

Supplemental Funding Bill Kerry And Edwards Voted Against Provided Increased Combat Pay For Troops. ("Highlights Of Iraq, Afghanistan Measures," The Associated Press, 10/17/03; S. Rept. 108-160, Conference Report On S. 1689, 10/2/03; "

FY 2004 Supplemental Request For Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF), Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF), And Operation Noble Eagle (ONE)," U.S. Department Of Defense, 9/03)

Supplemental Funding Bill Kerry And Edwards Voted Against Provided Health Benefits For Reservists And Guardsmen Called To Active Duty, As Well As Support For Their Families. ("Highlights Of Iraq, Afghanistan Measures," The Associated Press, 10/17/03; S. Rept. 108-160, Conference Report On S. 1689, 10/2/03; "FY 2004 Supplemental Request For Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF), Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF), And Operation Noble Eagle (ONE)," U.S. Department Of Defense, 9/03) Kerry Had Characterized A Vote Against The Funding As "Irresponsible." (CBS, "Face the Nation," 9/14/03)

Kerry Later Offered A Tortured Explanation Of His Vote Against The $87 Billion To Support Troops In Iraq. "I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it." (Richard W. Stevenson and Adam Nagourney, "Bush's Campaign Emphasizes Role Of Leader In War," The New York Times, 3/17/04)

Kerry Said He Was "Proud" That He And Edwards Voted Against $87 Billion In Funding For U.S. Soldiers. (John Kerry, Remarks at "Women's Voices: A Luncheon with John Kerry," Boston, MA, 7/12/04)

Kerry Then Said His Vote Against Body Armor And Supplies For Troops Was "Complicated." (MSNBC's "Imus in the Morning," 7/15/04)

Kerry Even Said His Vote For The War And Against Funding For Our Troops Was "Not A Flip-Flop." (CBS' "Evening News," 7/21/04)

Kerry Adviser On Vote Against The $87 Billion Appropriation: "Off The Record, He Did It Because Of Howard Dean. On The Record, He Has An Elaborate Explanation." (Philip Gourevitch, "Damage Control," The New Yorker, 7/26/04)

08-18-04, 12:45 PM
Kerry is a dangerous man. At least with Bush you know what he is going after. Anyone that would disgrace his fellow brothers in arms should not lead them.

08-18-04, 02:06 PM
Well, Kerry really did not have sex with THAT woman! (I don't know and Theresa)

That $87 billion Appropriation thing has been beaten to death.

The people know Kerry wanted to give The Commander in Chief a $60 billion blank check, but wanted the last $27 billion to have Congressional oversite. You know, so the no bid contracts would not bite the troops and the tax payers in the arse.

And now the people know they were bitten. They are also smart enough to know that the "Kerry doesn't want the troops to have supplies" propaganda is a load of crap.

If the RNC keeps shoveling it, they will be fired. If you feel good about an extra $10 a week, think how good the no-bid contractors feel! :banana:

08-18-04, 02:17 PM
As i said in my post enviro i am looking at not voting for either of these men and i know of several other veterans that feel the same way i do. seandayley you are very right in your post. It is very sad that here in the United states the republican and the democratic parties has only these 2 individuals to choose from. The bottom line is that who has all the money wins. Yes kerry has done alot stuff that enrages me, and his record shows it. Bushs record has also enraged me from time to time. as far as military records are concerned in my opinion and only my opinion both records need to be looked at very close. bushes record not knowing where he was at certain times and dates and cant find pay records and the possiblilty of being AWOL really angers me as well as kerrys act of treason to his fellow veterans. DOES TWO WRONGS MAKE IT RIGHT???? I think not.

08-18-04, 04:45 PM

"2. Has reintroduced the mention of God and faith into public discourse. "

how is THAT a good thing? or were you just listing THINGS?

08-18-04, 04:50 PM
Great Answer!

Semper Fi

08-18-04, 05:25 PM
yellowing, <br />
RE: no bid contracts <br />
<br />
<br />
Other than a French company, who shouldn't get the contract anyway, what American Company has the capability and resources ready to go like Halliburton? All I ...

08-18-04, 07:48 PM
Perhaps it would have been wiser to have waited the few months to get good bids. During that time we could have raised the troop levels that were properly equiped. Saddam was not going anywhere.

Evidence? How about the continuous news stories, and the recent decision to quit paying Halliburton? Is the Pentagon a good enough source for you to believe?

Its our tax money, it should be properly used to support our troops. I am all for fair profit, but screwing someone to do it is wrong.

ps Screw the French, there are plenty of Arkansas companies that can do the same thing as KBR.

08-18-04, 08:54 PM
Of course there isn't going to be any proof of Cheney getting financial gain. Don't ya recall the recent $7 million fine Haliburton got for fishy accounting while Cheney was the boss?

08-18-04, 09:11 PM
Your right I have heard the latest on this, but the time frame is a Year and a half (plus) ago (sorry I didn't reference). Don't get me wrong, I'm all for handing ANY company it's a$$ if they screw the US Gov. It should happen more often, but I also understand that in the time frame given they had to move fast. No other company could have done responded as fast. I believe that whatever company got the call that eventually there would have been price fixing. Nothing new.

Shouldn't the Dems that are going after Bush show the same flare for Kerry when Kerry tries to push legislation through that benefits his wife's company, or how money is sqandered on "bridge/road projects" in Mass. I know it happens but so does the hypocracy.

I don't like giving my money to the Gov., cause it never goes to where it is supposed to. We just end up being a big piggy bank for both sides. The sad thing is - it won't change no matter who is in office.

08-18-04, 09:21 PM
ya know, not that this contributes alot to this discussion, but I sure as hell will be glad when this election year is over.

08-18-04, 09:27 PM
Ya know hardjedi me too i am so sick of this crap...

08-18-04, 09:49 PM
we should have elections like Canada. They call an election, 3 months later it's over.

08-18-04, 09:52 PM
hell yes i like that idea...

08-18-04, 10:06 PM
that WOULD be sweet. and personally, I think ANYONE shouldbe allowed to be on the dang ballot.( depending on felony convictions, of course)

to hell with this two party sytem and good ol boy's network. I can gPROMISE you there are a tons of people out there more intelligent that ANY of the canidates currently running.

08-18-04, 10:10 PM
Looking up doctors in yellow pages for hardjedi

08-18-04, 10:11 PM
LOL, won't do any good. I don't see a doc unless I have an open wound gushing blood......

08-19-04, 12:03 AM
"we should have elections like Canada. They call an election, 3 months later it's over." - Sorry, it doesn't work quite that way.

A few weeks ago there was a case of a man that pulled a gun on a cab driver, robbed, shot, and killed him. After four years he is walking the streets.

That is that part I strongly dislike about Canada. If that criminal shot, robbed, and killed a Houston cab driver, he'd be lethaly and legally injected by now. No arguments from me.

If it takes 5 months to elect a Chief Executive to enact Justice, it's worth the wait.

08-19-04, 12:35 AM
Just listing things HardJedi - good, bad, or indifferent. Some of the things on the list people applaud and some people will shake their head in disgust at the same accomplishment.

You're right about the 87 billion dollar vote yellowing, but the numbers are slightly off. 67 billion was for the DoD to spend on the DoD (saleries, housing, food, transportation, etc.)

The rest was to go towards rebuilding Iraq.

Aside from that, YOU are one of the few people who stand up and say John Kerry had reasons for not voting for it. Why can't John Kerry make that clear? Why didn't he offer an alternative bill? Because he closes his eyes and hopes it will all go away. If he defends his vote, he ticks us off. If he rebuts his vote, he looks even more like a waffler and ticks off the liberal pacifists.

You're right - the 87B has been beaten to death.

His record on the military is absolutely horrid. Take this one vote off his record, and nothing changes.

08-19-04, 06:35 PM
wing, ya wan't to hear a good one. some clown (as polite a term as i would use on the forum) was turkey hunting in wisconsin.

the clown heard a noise, fired his shotgun. the shot hit 2 teen age boys. one of the boys is now permanently blind.

the clown lost his hunting priviledges.

by the way, Kerry did give a reason for voting against the $87 billion dollar appropriations. Kerry wanted it to be paid for by scaling back the tax break for the rich that Bush had passed. Reasonable enough I figure. The uber rich certainly are not making any sacrifices in our "war" against terrorism.

Clinton, douche bag that he may have been, left a surplus, Bush managed to p!ss it away w/ tax breaks & a war paid for w/ the federal credit card.

08-20-04, 12:33 AM
Clinton may have had a surplus when he left office, but the economy was spiraling downward. Add the economic factors of 9/11 and you have one bad situation. George Bush's tax cuts kept this disaster from becoming so much worse than what it could have been. Screw the surplus.

Study the history of economics. This isn't something that Bush invented. It's why America has lasted as long as it has.

Economics 101

When an economy is in a recession (which it no longer is) interest rates must be cut and the government must run a deficit along with cutting taxes in order to end recession. When an economy is booming, interest rates must be raised and the government should raise taxes and run a surplus to prevent inflation.

This is one reason for the deficit. Most freshman economics students understand this.

We have a deficit because of the right economic decisions made by Bush, (cutting taxes and running a deficit which brought us out of recession) and the billions in unexpected costs from the war on terror.

Even with all this, the real news is that the budget deficit is much smaller than projected.

08-20-04, 06:41 AM
The republicans exagerated the estimated deficit figures so they would look good when the real numbers were only horrible instead of unbelievably horrible.

We're talking economics at well above the "101" level here. If you were to ask Bush if he was a " Keynsian" he would probably just furrow his brow in confusion.

9-11 was oversold as a reason (smokescreen in my mind) as a reason for the poor economic showing of the last few years.

Between 2/3 and 3/4ths of our economy is driven by consumer spending. The tax cuts that (during a war by the way, which is simply irresponsible) favored capital instead of wages does little to increase consumer spending.

08-20-04, 08:07 AM
Our economy is always in flux, either up or down, it always is changing. You can not go up for to long before you fall a little or a lot (the bursting of the internet bubble) and likewise you can not go down to long before you go up (the great depression).

A president can only help the economy a little, no matter if it is good or bad (bad is always easier), all he can do is help.

The Congress controls the spending and the budget, again the prez can help and can veto but he can not control.

No one should be bringing up Canada (nice to have north of us, and good friend) but far from a good example of a great country.
-Social Health care (great for Star Trek) Not good.
-Having a refurendum every couple of years for the French Canadians to create a new country (shows that multi-culturalism can only kill a country)Not good.

Sorry,I got on a soap box...

This country has ran great for over two hundred years with strong presidents, not weak principled men (you may through our last prez in this, and maybe one more). American presidents in the past have gone to great lenghts to make America stronger, and at times that has hurt some of our friendships but when you look at relationships of countries you will find the relations broken and then fixed. That is how it works, not making every one else happy, ie... Kerry.

I believe that we should make Iraq a democracy. If it works there we might be albe to get it to work in other countries, maybe with or without war. This is in the interest of peace, because no democratic has ever declared war on another democracy. So if you want peace you should try and change the world to become democratic. What if they do not want to, you say. Well there are ways around that, embargos, war, the threat of war. The point is, as a nation we should never back down to any threat, I mean any. No matter if it is Iran, or China by placing more missiles alongside the Taiwan Straights. Bush will not back down. He is not perfect but by god he is when you compare him to Joan of Kerry.

08-20-04, 02:46 PM
Small business drives the nation’s economy, according to a new report released by the Office of Advocacy. The report reveals that over 99 percent of all American businesses are small, they create 75 percent of the net new jobs, and they employ over half of the nation’s non-farm private employees.

ONLY the Democrats have predicted doom and gloom. The Bush administration has always been positive about the numbers. Republicans did not exaggerate any numbers.

Trace the economic line from 9-11. Airlines were shut down. Shipping via air stopped. Products weren't delivered. Businesses didn't perform. Shipping via water was held up because of security concerns. Again products not delivered or sold. Food rotted aboard those ships. Then you had the dockworkers strike that repeated the process over again.

Corporate scandals galore. Everyone thought the Clinton years were great becuase major corporations were reporting false numbers that lead to false investing which lead to a crash.

Companies that serviced the airlines, ships, trucks, and major corporations were now out of business since their customers are out of business. Companies have to make a choice, go bankrupt by keeping everyone employed, or keep the business alive long enough for the economy to take a turn.

Man - could I go on. The point is that Bush's actions only helped the situation from getting worse than what it could have been. You just can't deny that. Any other way just doesn't add up. Come on now - how many people around here are going to gripe about the VA not getting enough money and then gripe about the deficit the government is in? Even better - exactly how are you feeling the effects of the deficit?

08-20-04, 04:18 PM
Hell enviro, I'll be dead & buried before the deficits have any real effect. Remember the later 70s & early 80s when our deficit spending of Viet Nam came home to roost.

Corporations are still reporting bogus numbers. Cripes, I'm a tax auditor, first hand experience & all that, lol.

Friedman is fiddling around (nominal increases) w/ the interest rates due more to the exchange rate of the dollar than any significant inflation/economic recovery reasons.

As a liberal/socialist/commie (pick one, lol) I just can't stand the hypocracy of the republicans free trade mantra. Free trade my a$$, look at the targeted tarriffs (swing state steel industry) or the farm bill.

Remember, we've had a republican congress since '94.

Any true conservative has got to be wetting his/her pants over the deficits.

08-20-04, 04:34 PM
hummmmmmmmmmm and i wonder who the hell is going to have to pay all that back........

08-20-04, 08:26 PM
Well under the Clinton administration, I knew my share of the federal defecit was about $40,000 and knew I could never pay it and worried about it.

Under the Bush administration, I don't worry about it, I feel like I can help pay some of it, and still have some spending money in my pocket....

I wonder why...

08-20-04, 11:57 PM
Right now, because of the wavering economy, we are enjoying lower interest rates. Many people have bought homes recently to take advantage of it. It's also a good time to invest money (if you have it)

When the economy is considered "good" interest rates are high, and taxes are high. It's also a bad time to invest money no matter how much you have.

Either way, we'll have a reason to gripe. Either way, the politicians will use it as a scare tactic. You have to pick which way you like it best. It's impossible to have it both ways.

It's the same way with free trade and "sending jobs overseas".

We have everything "Made in America" and we'll be paying out the wahzoo for everything - but everyone will have jobs.

If we outsource to cheap labor in other countries, the price for consumer goods goes way down.

Again, you have to pick which way you like it best. It's impossible to have it both ways.