View Full Version : John McCain, Bill O'Reilly defend Kerry.

08-06-04, 09:21 AM
For those who want to believe the crap espoused by two disgruntled sailors who weren't even on John Kerry's Swift boat, you should consider that Sen. John McCain has blasted this ad as "dishonest and dishonorable. Bill O'Reilly spend this radio show on Thursday, August 5 saying the same thing.

REGARDLESS of your political leanings, this type of crap demeans all of us and the political process in this country. We all know that you don't put yourself in for a commendation - as this tv commercial wants you to think. Of the 12 guys on 2 swift boats, 11 are living. EVERY one of the guys on Kerry's boat states that the guys who made the ad - who were on the second boat 100 meters + away from the action - don't know what they are talking about. Kerry's Bronze Star was initiated by the Green Beret Captain that was rescued. Kerry's commander - a Navy Commnader and the next person up the chain of cammand - a Navy Captain ascertained that the facts were trueand put him in for a Silver Star.

You'll note that McCain states that this is the same s**t the Bush campaign did to him in the 2000 primary races.

McCain slams anti-Kerry ad
Some vets accuse Democrat of lying about his record

Associated Press
Published on: 08/05/04

WASHINGTON — Republican Sen. John McCain, a former prisoner of war in Vietnam, called an ad criticizing John Kerry's military service "dishonest and dishonorable" and urged the White House on Thursday to condemn it.

The White House declined.

"It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me," McCain said in an interview, comparing the anti-Kerry ad to tactics in his bitter Republican primary fight with President Bush in 2000.

The 60-second ad features Vietnam veterans who accuse the Democratic presidential nominee of lying about his record as a decorated Vietnam War veteran and betraying his fellow veterans by later opposing the conflict.

"When the chips were down, you could not count on John Kerry," one of the veterans, Larry Thurlow, says in the ad. Thurlow did not serve on Kerry's swift boat, but says he witnessed the events that led to Kerry winning a Bronze Star and the last of his three Purple Hearts. Kerry's crewmates support the candidate and call him a hero.

The ad, scheduled to air in a few markets in Ohio, West Virginia and Wisconsin, was produced by Stevens, Reed, Curcio and Potham, the same team that produced McCain's ads in 2000.

"I wish they hadn't done it," McCain said of his former advisers. "I don't know if they knew all the facts."

Asked if the White House knew about the ad or helped find financing for it, McCain said, "I hope not, but I don't know. But I think the Bush campaign should specifically condemn the ad."

McCain, chairman of Bush's campaign in Arizona, later said the Bush campaign has denied any involvement and added, "I can't believe the president would pull such a cheap stunt."

White House spokesman Scott McClellan declined to condemn the ad. He did denounce the proliferation of spending by independent groups, such as the anti-Kerry veterans organization, that are playing on both sides of the political fence.

"The president thought he got rid of this unregulated soft money when he signed the bipartisan campaign finance reform into law," McClellan said. A chief sponsor of that bill, which Bush initially opposed, was McCain.

"I deplore this kind of politics," McCain said. "I think the ad is dishonest and dishonorable. As it is, none of these individuals served on the boat [Kerry] commanded. Many of his crew have testified to his courage under fire. I think John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam. I think George Bush served honorably in the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War."

08-06-04, 09:36 AM
Democrats Threaten Networks Over Anti-Kerry Ads <br />
By Jeff Gannon <br />
Talon News <br />
August 6, 2004 <br />
<br />
WASHINGTON (Talon News) -- The Democratic National Committee quickly responded to ads that began airing...

08-06-04, 10:17 AM
McCain or Bill O'Reilly have to say.

These are VIETNAM VETERANS that unlike Kerry served their full tour of duty and have earned the right to not only say what's on their mind, but to expose Kerry for the type of individual he was in VietNam.

You have two swift boat members that served with Kerry appearing with him and the media counts all the others that served on other boats around that area that support and appear with Kerry as creditable witnesses to Kerry's character.

Yet the swift boat vets that's 14 of them, that submitted statements for the book, "NOT TWO" MAJMike
as you mentioned above..."Served with Kerry," same command and saw what Kerry did as unreliable statements.

Kerry has made it a high light of his race for the presidency, his command of a swift boat in Vietnam. He said, "reporting for Duty."

You can't pick and chose what you want the American people to know. This is true of all political candidates, teh people deserve to know the truth about those running for public service.

Kerry, by his own mouth has admitted committing atrocities. Where he received Two, count them Two purple hearts for self-afflicted wounds, and left Vietnam because of those wounds, while the rest of "HIS CREW" had to serve their full duty.

I already wrote O'Reilly about his cowing under a little pressure, but what are the Vietnam Veterans that served their Full duty saying?

The TRUTH. McCain should keep his mouth shut, when it comes to betraying those you served with. Have you read his book?

In it he confesses to some very un-American activity. That caused other POW's to suffer, because of his cooperation with the NVA.

I know I would have been killed, so would have many Marines in his position, because we are trained differently.

McCain has continuously defended this yo yo. But, teh truth is Kerry dishonored his men and our country and is not worthy of being our Commander-in-chief.

08-06-04, 02:34 PM
Criticizing Kerry for his post Vietnam statements is one thing. The VVAK is responsibly doing it without resorting to smears with no integrity. The Swift Boat Veterans group sole purpose is to smear.

Take the time to do some honest research on their statements and methods. Established resources from Fox News to the NY Times have repeatedly debunked thier assertions.

Here's the latest to get started (from the Boston Globe yet!),

Veteran retracts criticism of Kerry (http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/06/veteran_retracts_criticism_of_kerry/)
By Michael Kranish, Globe Staff | August 6, 2004
WASHINGTON -- A week after Senator John F. Kerry heralded his wartime experience by surrounding himself at the Democratic convention with his Vietnam ''Band of Brothers," a separate group of veterans has launched a television ad campaign and a book that questions the basis for some of Kerry's combat medals.

But yesterday, a key figure in the anti-Kerry campaign, Kerry's former commanding officer, backed off one of the key contentions. Lieutenant Commander George Elliott said in an interview that he had made a ''terrible mistake" in signing an affidavit that suggests Kerry did not deserve the Silver Star -- one of the main allegations in the book. The affidavit was given to The Boston Globe by the anti-Kerry group to justify assertions in their ad and book.

Elliott is quoted as saying that Kerry ''lied about what occurred in Vietnam . . . for example, in connection with his Silver Star, I was never informed that he had simply shot a wounded, fleeing Viet Cong in the back."

The statement refers to an episode in which Kerry killed a Viet Cong soldier who had been carrying a rocket launcher, part of a chain of events that formed the basis of his Silver Star. Over time, some Kerry critics have questioned whether the soldier posed a danger to Kerry's crew. Crew members have said Kerry's actions saved their lives.

Yesterday, reached at his home, Elliott said he regretted signing the affidavit and said he still thinks Kerry deserved the Silver Star.

''I still don't think he shot the guy in the back," Elliott said. ''It was a terrible mistake probably for me to sign the affidavit with those words. I'm the one in trouble here."

The Globe story continues on...

"I'm the one in trouble here." - That is character and integrity. All of the Swift Boat Veterans that actually served under Kerrey do not have a bad thing to say.

Who are you going to believe? The servicemen that actually shared the same breathing space, smelling each other through combat.

Or the ones that "... never knew him personally ...", "... never directly observed...", "...never signed the medical reports..."

The White House spokesman, Scott McClellan, said, ''We have not and we will not question Senator Kerry's service in Vietnam."

08-06-04, 03:05 PM
Lieutenant Commander George Elliott signed an *affidavit that said, Kerry lied about what occurred in Vietnam . . . for example, in connection with his Silver Star.

What does that make Elliott? A lier? You can't have it both ways. Someone should ask Elliott if Kerry's campaign got a hold of him.

Elliott said, he was never informed that Kerry had simply shot a wounded, fleeing Viet Cong in the back.

Before being told the truth Elliott had only taken Kerry's word for the incident, not the men from under Kerry's command or other officers, that were there at that time.

*affidavit; A written declaration made under oath before a notary public or other authorized officer.



08-06-04, 03:32 PM
Sparrowhawk et al:

God forbid that you deal with the truth that runs counter to what you want it to be. Talk about your revisionist history!

The facts:

1) NONE of the men who ACTUALLY SERVED UNDER KERRY'S COMMAND on either of his swift boats agree with the guys WHO DID NOT SERVE UNDER KERRY and are making accusations.

2) ALL of the men who actually served under Kerry AGREE the he ws heroic and the facts are as stated.

3) If you don't think W's "people" are behind this, then I want to talk to you about ocean front property in Kansas! The ads were produced by one of the most astute Washington DC based political advertising agencies. You think the Swift Boaters found these guys on their own? You think they had the money to hire them?

4) WHO do you think paid for this? A bunch of 50 year old blue-collar guys who all "chipped in?" Wrong-o. Three TEXANS - John O'Neill, a former functionary in the Nixon Administration, Harlan Crow, a trustee of George H.W. Bush's Presidential Library and Bob J. Perry. These three have been active in an organization called "Texans for Public Justice" which has supported Republican causes in Texas - to the point that during the very heated re-districting controversy, the Democratic legislators left the state. They prevailed and eight former mostly Democratic districts have been gerrymandered into stongly Republican districts. The Law Suite Reform" which was one of the largest contributors to George W. Bush's 2000 presidential campaign. Under the guise of "Law Suit" reform, they want to (on behalf of big buisness) limit the amount of money you can collect if and when you sue a business. So, under their agenda, if you kid gets paralyzed by a falling carton at Home Depot you are greatly limited in what you can collect. This is/was a major issue in the Bush 43 Platform.

5) If Bush isn't behind this, then he can simply denounce it - he is and he won't. He has already refused to. It's the same s**t they did to John McCain in the 2000 SC primary.

CONNECT THE DOTS! Quit letting far right wing proslytizers do your thinking for you. Do some thinking and research on your own. Yoa are/were MARINES - you're suposed to be smarter than this!


This is below the belt, dishonorable and just plain mean. W will play as dirty as he needs to win in November.

This easily disfuses the issues that are important - how W's administration went into the wrong war for the wrong reasons; why there have been barely marginal improvements in border security since 9/11; the biggest deficit in the history of this country, dirty air and the worst environmental record of any administration in the 20th or 21st century, a screwed up education policy, why we have 140,000 troops in Iraq and not 25,000 in Afganistan where the real bad guys are, why we haven't found Osama in almost 3 years, an economy that is on the brink, outsourcing of jobs overseas...

But of course, you don't want to hear any of this because it might make you think.


You nailed it!

08-06-04, 03:34 PM
NOT that John Kerry did, but...

Is there anyone here that - in the midst of a firefight - would not shoot a fleeing VC carrying an RPG in the back?

I would in a New York minute!

08-06-04, 03:57 PM

Little out of date but still great

08-06-04, 05:40 PM
The truth shall set you free!
Here again we see the word "truth"
But what is the 'truth"?

Its said that the first casualty of war is the truth.
Whats second?

From a page on the web
As for the Democratic Party’s presidential contender—well, let’s just say the uranium story is like a wet dream come true. John Kerry, for one, who voted for the war but never supported it, and who—it might be noted—fought in Vietnam, is going around saying Bush deceived us into battle. In other words, Kerry either: (a) Voted in favor of the invasion so he could play both sides of the aisle in the months to come; (b) Admits he was duped by the current commander-in-chief, something most White House hopefuls would keep to themselves; or (c) Fought in Vietnam.

From the same page on George W. Bush
Now, don’t get me wrong: I’m not defending faulty intelligence for the sake of defending faulty intelligence. But we don’t even know if the uranium information was, in fact, faulty, and that’s the real issue here. September 11th may or may not have been preventable, but if it can be said that the attacks were partly caused by intelligence folly, then the Second Gulf War—more than anything else—was the end result of our government’s not wanting to drop the ball again. It’s as if the Bush administration looked around after 9/11 and said, “Hey, what other problems have we been ignoring?” And after a decade of defiance, Saddam Hussein presented just such a problem.

We have no problem with John Forbes Kerry's duty in Vietnam.
Its the actions that he took part of, with the Veterans Against the War.
Those actions gave aid and comfort to the enemy we were fighting in Vietnam.

Its said that George W. Bush served in the Texas Air National Guard.
But the National Guard was a haven to avoid serving in Vietnam because LBJ was never going to activate the National Guard.
George W. Bush and Dan Quayle, both were vaulted from the bottom of the list to the top.
Was influence a factor?

"Obviously, if you join the National Guard, you have less of a chance of going to Vietnam. I mean it goes without saying."
-- Senator Dan Quayle discussing his draft record on NBC's `Meet the Press', 9/20/92. (reported in the Houston Chronicle 9/21/92)

From that same page;
You can nitpick all you want, but the truth speaks for itself. No amount of semantic finagling will change that.
Here again is the word "truth" what is the "truth"!
Is it what we want it to be?
Or what is, is.
The truth like numbers in counting can be manipulated to anything you want those numbers to be.

Col. Nathan Jessup: Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand at post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.
There's that word again "truth"!
What is the "truth"

The truth shall set you free.
All we have to do now is find out what is the "truth"...

Semper Fidelis/Semper Fi

radio relay
08-06-04, 07:26 PM
Talk about not wanting to hear anything. Funny how you people who love John "Fonda" Kerry, don't want to acknowledge his treason, once he returned from his much vaunted, heroic four month tour in Vietnam.

I really think it's a big mistake to go after Kerry, concerning what he did, or did not do to receive medals. It doesn't matter. If Jessica Lynch can receive a Silver Star, for being "brave" in the hospital, then Kerry might as well have one too, for put-putting up and down the Mekong, shooting viet cong in the back (not that he did any of that).

The way both, Silver Stars, and Bronze Stars, are handed out anymore, they don't mean much, anyway.

I want to see some ads with the left wing puke and idol of MajMike, John Kerry, testifying before Congress thirty years ago. Accusing his "Brothers" of being baby killers, and committing various other war crimes. I want to see the footage of him throwing away his medals, won in such valiant combat. I want to see the cover of his book, wherein he mocks the flag raisers of Iwo Jima, and essentially spits on the Marine Corps. I want to see the pictures of Kerry, smiling and laughing with the North Vietnamese, as they show him the shrine they have in their little "war crimes" museum, honoring him, for helping them fight against the United States. (a "hero" for both sides.... imagine that! Don't think that's happened since, Benedict Arnold)

I also want every other American to see all that stuff, too. So that, when he sells this country down the tubes. I can laugh my ass off, and say, "told you so"!