Idealism

[AmericanIron87]

My Uncle was in the Marine Corps for 8 years. His Unit was activated during Desert Storm. He never talks about it, and I have enough respect not to ask. Part of my wanting to join the Corps is because of him. He never brags or gloats about killing anyone, although I'm sure he has. The pride & confidence the Marine Corps instills in you is evident in everything that he does, though you would never know where it came from. You could know him for years and not ever know he served. There is not 1 Marine emblem, tattoo, book, etc. to be found. This, to me is a prime example of servitude. Denying self to help others.

To help people, that's why we all want to do this right? Why else?

One of my friends asked me, "What are you in a rush to die or something, do you want to be a Hero?". My decision to join will probably destroy our relationship.

Some people will never be able to comprehend the idea of putting others first. There is self-indulgence everywhere you look in this great country of ours. Tempting you to do whatever it takes to make yourself feel good.

I am a firm believer in the notion that certain things are expected of people: obeying the law, taking care of your family, treating others how you want to be treated, etc. . And that these things should be done for the simple fact that it's what's right, and without any reward or compensation in mind. A reward is someone else acknowledging you for a good act you performed.
There is nothing wrong with this, don't get me wrong. But the real reward is that feeling you get when you know you took the road less traveled, and improved the quality of someone's life.
Whether they realize it or not. Following this idiology, every day for me is a good day.
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I am a manager-in-training at Chik-fil-A, a fast food restaurant here in NJ. I do this 40-45 hrs a week. We are right down the street from a Military Recruiting Station. Every branch is represented there. We are also only about a half hour from Fort Dix Army Base.

Today, a Marine in his late twenties/early thirties came in to eat. He was wearing a Marine Corps tank top, and had 'USMC' and an eagle tattood on his right arm. He had his father, his wife, his two sons and daughter with him. They placed a $38 - dollar order. Throughout the entire ordering process, he kept saying what's the problem? And when his son couldn't make - up his mind about what he wanted to eat, he pushed him. Hard. Come on. Give me a break. There's a time and a place for tough-guy macho-man bull****, it's called a battlefield.





Your Thoughts & Comments are Greatly Appreciated.
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SEMPER FI

[Booyah!]

My guess is that some people can't cope with what they have seen or what they have been through. But then, there are some people that are just aggressive without thinking about it. I think that every Marine has his/her duty to be a loving and caring parent/spouse. That they should hold themselves to high values.

[enviro]

I hesitate to comment as I know that no matter how thin you slice it, there are always two sides to every story.

But I'll take a stab at it anyways based on your side. The tough-guy macho-man bull****, as you refer to it, on the battlefield will get you killed. I'm certain you haven't the slightest clue as to what combat is like, or you wouldn't have made this comment.

As for pushing the kid to be a little more decisive, generally, I would say it's good to go. I'm also certain you have never had the priviledge of rearing a child or had to personally deal with their friends who have absolutely no discipline whatsoever. While I don't know this kid's behavior patterns or this Marine's leadership capabilities, I will say too many kids are coddled to the point of being 100% wussies.

As for your uncle and his non-display of the emblems of our service - more power to him. Many of us display it everywhere and proudly. Not because we give a damn what anyone thinks about it, but because it is our life - and a constant reminder of who we are.

As for helping people - that depends on who's side you're on. Every Marine is a Rifleman. A trained killer. No warning shots, and not shots in the leg. Every round that comes out of Marine's weapon during combat is meant to kill. We are called upon for the purpose of showing rapid force. A display of firepower and disciplined fighters that may or may not have to crush the enemy. We are not the Salvation Army. Our mission is not to help people. We will however, participate in humanitarian assistance (HA) whenever needed and whenever feasible. HA is not what we do as a primary function.

So let's talk about gratitude for the people that are lucky enough to get HA from us. We build and secure a food bank in Kabul. We fill it with food. We pass out the food. The people surround us. They get very close. They smile very big. They mumble some words I am unfamiliar with. Then all of a sudden they dispearse very quickly. I and one of my Lance Corporals are left standing there with stab wounds to our abdomens. I have an 8 inch slit in my ribs that I get to carry around for the rest of my life. My Lance Corporal gets a 1 inch stab wound and gets to spit up blood for no damn good reason every once in a while.

Do I keep the emblem on my truck and in my office so I can relive those moments to every jackass who want to hear some good war stories? NO. I could give a damn. I have them displayed because it is MY life. Why do I have hundreds of books on the Marine Corps and warfare? Because it is MY life. Why do I NOT have a tattoo? Because I thought it would be stupid to get one. What's the point? The point is that every Marine will choose to live his life according to his or her choosing. I'm sure your uncle is a good Marine. I'm sure he served his country well. But your generalizations of what makes him a good Marine are way off the mark.

Look deeper and think outside of the box. The answer will hit you. But I promise you it's not because he doesn't own a Marine Corps sticker.

[CMyr]

Maybe the son was indecisive because he was afraid to give the wrong answer to his agressive father. You have the right values. One thing I always stressed to my Marines to work on was their integrity; defined as, if you can't be honest with yourself (and your personal shortfalls), you can't be honest with others (and accept them with their personal shortfalls). Nobody's perfect. And everyday is a new learning experience.

[PooleeWebber]

Enviro, was that situation in Kabul a hypothetical situation or a real occurance?

If it was real, did you and your Marines retaliate in any way?

[AmericanIron87]

Enviro: I respect your opinions & real world experience, of which you have at least a decade on me. With that said…


1) I have been told that anything less than teamwork on the battlefield is a recipe for disaster. And that the reason for constant training during peacetime is to equip you with robotic reactions during the shock & horror of war. (Robotic meaning without hesitation or thought).

2) I agree w/ your second paragraph, although I don’t believe a restaurant is the appropriate setting. Also, parents’ primary functions are disciplinarian & mentor. The child must know that he can come to them for assistance with any problem, without fear. And no, sir, as of yet I have not had the great priveledge of shaping a life, as I feel I have much to learn & accomplish before doing so.

3) In your 4th paragraph, you state that helping people is not the Marine Corps’ mission. I must disagree w/ you whole- heartedly here. While it may not be worded that way in the orders you receive, the end result often turns out that way. Killing one person often helps another- just as putting a rapist in jail prevents future rapes from being perpetrated by him.

3) In reference to your 5th paragraph; I understand that kindness (good) is very often met w/ unkindness (evil). It is to the credit of those who are unwavering in their determination to be a tool of goodness that evil has not completely engulfed the world. People like you and your Lance Corporal.

4) Lastly, I was using my Uncle as an example, to show what I aspire to be. Not to in any way retract from anything you or the Marines you know have sacrificed. I understand that a sticker is a sticker. It’s what the Eagle, Globe & Anchor symbolizes that’s important: Courage, Determination, Honor, Selflessness, Discipline, Pride, Confidence, Leadership, etc.

Keep the reply's coming!!!

[AmericanIron87]

I appreciate that, CMyr.

[CMyr]

Anytime, AmericanIron87.

Remember: 1 -Know yourself and seek self-improvement.
2 -Know your Marines and look out for their welfare.

1 - If the Marine who came into your restaurant would recognize what is causing his aggression and dealt with it, he would
2 - Better look after his son and treat him more kindly.

[enviro]

I believe we are all on the same sheet of music. Without knowing the insides of this agressive Marine, we can only speculate. Being a Marine does not make you a good leader (or parent) My daughter gets spoiled rotten. I may regret it in the future, but I think I'll ratchet up the discipline as needed.

In answer to your question Poolee Webber, yes it was real. It all happened so fast that I didn't even know I was cut. My adreneline was pumping so fast because I was afraid that something bad was about to happen. This was unusual for the people to do that - hell we'd been passing out food for over a week. My Lance Corporal squatted like he'd gotten the wind knocked out of him. By the time I figured out he was stabbed it was too late. I didn't even realize I was cut until my Captain pointed out the blood running down my trousers. Other Marines were inside the building.

Not to be racist or anything, but I didn't recognize any faces, they all looked alike to me.

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

The situation is difficult. If you mean pushed as in he physically shoved his son, there is no defense for it. There is a time and place for discipline. Shoving your child in a fast food place isn't it. If you mean he pushed him to make a decision by urging him to do so, I have no problem with it. I would guess the child was usually slow to make up his mind, and he didn't want to wait.

As for the stuff in battle... there is an old saying that answers it.

Never share a fox hole (fighting hole) with some one braver than you are.

[HardJedi]

Hmmmm. well, let me ad om .02 (as usual)

You probably wouldn't appriciate my methods of child rearing then. The world is NOT a magical, forgiving place. And children need to learn this, early. The soft, complacent, round faced, fat, playstation playing, I want it now, children of today will be the ruination of our society.

My children know they have a very limited time to choose anything. I ask them what they want, and if they do not answer immediatley, then I choose for them. Do I push them physically? No. My two kids know enough NOT to force me to that point. They do not talk back, and neither one of them, 8 and 5) hve EVER told me no, about anything. it's called setting the rules and FOLLOWING them, in any and all situations. If you make it as a GOOD Marine, maybe you will learn this too.

AS for the rest of your post,

I do not now, nor have I ever owned anything with a Marine Corps Emblem on it. ( other than uniforms, of course) I just don't feel the need for it. OBVIOUSLY, having been in the Corps is the proudest acomplishment of my life. I served because I felt a call of duty, and i did my duty, and then Iwent home. There is no right or wrong way to be proud of your service. and neither way demeans it in the least.


that's my .02 for tonight.

[PooleeWebber]

Originally posted by enviro

In answer to your question Poolee Webber, yes it was real. It all happened so fast that I didn't even know I was cut. My adreneline was pumping so fast because I was afraid that something bad was about to happen. This was unusual for the people to do that - hell we'd been passing out food for over a week. My Lance Corporal squatted like he'd gotten the wind knocked out of him. By the time I figured out he was stabbed it was too late. I didn't even realize I was cut until my Captain pointed out the blood running down my trousers. Other Marines were inside the building.



I have a few friends who are 0311s's and fought on the front lines during the initial invasion of Iraq, and they said that they always knew when something 'bad' was about to happen. They said before they even saw anything or heard anything, they'd all get this feeling in them that blood was about to be shed. Did you feel that at all?

You must have been freakin mad to not be able to retaliate against the cowards who stabbed someone trying to solidify their survival.

[radio relay]

I've been trying to limit my posts here, because they just turn into long, dull diatribes, but what the hey...

This is the stupidest thread in the forum.

All this "been through", "battlefield", tough guy "punk speak" is nauseating!

It's the one thing that raises my hackles and gets my "wannabe, braggart, phoney liar" detection radar going. If I've heard one "Nam" Vet talk big and blame their failed lives on "da nam", I've heard a thousand. Most, if not all, were phoney liars, looking for an excuse for bad behavior, or just trying to impress.

I can speak about Vietnam, because I was there. I think I can also infer from my experience what has transpired in other wars since. The overwhelming majority of people who served in-country, in Vietnam, were support troops. The vast majority of people who serve in-country in Iraq, or anywhere else today, are support troops. I was one of those.

I did not "go through" anything worse than boredom, and bad living conditons. I fought malfunctioning radios, heat, rain, mud, and bugs more than the VC or NVA. Same same for support troops today, too.

I was involved in what I call "poge combat". A little bit of incomming, and a few small firefights. I had one (1) confirmed enemy kill, due to pure, out-and-out luck and coincidence. For a couple months, I was in a place that was hit three, four times a week, but I was "behind" the wire, and in well fortified bunkers. A few thuds and maybe some automatic weapons fire in the background, not any more life threatening than driving to the supermarket. Lots of times I slept through it.

I hate to even bring that up, because the inference is that I "went through" traumatic events. That is just pure baloney. Each time was so brief, and so non-threatening that it was inconsequential. Exciting at the time, but usually not even that. Comprising approximately one onethousandth of my total Vietnam experience. None of it scarred me either mentally, or physically. Just another not so good "war story".

There are a few who DID have horrendous combat experiences. I don't want to deny them their due. I saw them, and I talked with them when they came back in from their patrols. I know they were scarred both mentally, and physically. I saw them lifted into medivac helicopters, and placed into body bags. I have friends today, who I know did "go through" heavy "Grunt" combat. However, my Vietnam experience was the norm for most people who had the privilege of serving in-country! Not the "veins in your teeth" combat that only a few saw, or see.

Those who did "go through" bad times in war, by a vast majority, live with it, and deal with it privately. They don't use it as an excuse.

Those that "went through" nothing are the first to claim that PTSD made them act like idiots.

Spank your kids when they misbehave, and hug them when they don't. ... "it don't mean nuthin'"...

[enviro]

I agree with your post only I'm wondering if you really meant to post it here. The only one mentioning Vietnam or PTSD is you (in this post)

I thought we were talking about Marine Corps emblems and child rearing. The only other "combat" mentioned was an experience I had in Kabul - which was could have been classified as "pogue combat" as you put it.

[radio relay]

Well, gosh, almighty damn....So sorry.

Guess all the back and forth about how the "battlefield" influences child rearing addled my brain.

You kids carry on....

[Sparrowhawk]

Because everything this wannabe (not even a “poolee”) says is full of crap.

First of all his profile shows that he has gone through boot camp at Parris Island, but he's not a Marine. He is nothing but a wannabee, not even a poolee, listed himself as a member, not a guest. Heck the kid’s only 17, and a wannabe Marine,

his favorite color “green”
his interest? “Cars, guns, marines.”
his occupation? “future marine”
his occupation is manager-in-training at Chik-fil-A, a fast food restaurant.

He puts down a Marine while praising himself and starts a thread called “Idealism.”

But his ideal form of Marine character is flawed already, because he has already perceived as an “Ideal Marine,” to be his uncle, who he has never talked to and now sings praises for.

Let’s look at what he says;

AmericanIron87, Member

Posts: 5
Idealism
My Uncle was in the Marine Corps….Part of my wanting to join the Corps is because of him. …There is not 1 Marine emblem, tattoo, book, etc. to be found. This, to me is a prime example of servitude. Denying self to help others.

What a bunch of bull s hit! Because his uncle doesn’t talk about his 8 years of Marine experiences and doesn’t wear Marine emblems makes him the ideal Marine?

Then there is his other form of idealism;
“To help people, that's why we all want to do this right? Why else? “

Thank you, AmericanIron87 that’s what we all live for.


One of my friends asked me, "What are you in a rush to die or something, do you want to be a Hero?". My decision to join will probably destroy our relationship.

Awe, poor guy is gona loose his friend, while “noticed” he has already made himself a “hero,” such sacrifices we have to go through.

Then he lectures us, about why we should do good. An ideology he practices everyday of his life!

“Following this ideology, every day for me is a good day, “ he tells us, but I bet he can't even get a chicken order right.
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Now, comes the self glorying praise me notes;

"I am a manager-in-training at Chik-fil-A, "

WOW!

"I do this 40-45 hrs a week."

Bigger WOW

Now, he lays down the foundation to give himself validation for what he is about to post. To give himself some credibility;

“We are right down the street from a Military Recruiting Station. “
“Every branch is represented there. We are also only about a half hour from Fort Dix Army Base. “

There, now we have his dealings with every branch of service, fast food service qualifies you to make judgments on a Marine.

“Today, a Marine in his late twenties/early thirties came in to eat. He was wearing a Marine Corps tank top, and had 'USMC' and an eagle tattood on his right arm. He had his father, his wife, his two sons and daughter with him. They placed a $38 - dollar order. Throughout the entire ordering process, he kept saying what's the problem? And when his son couldn't make - up his mind about what he wanted to eat, he pushed him. Hard. Come on. Give me a break. There's a time and a place for tough-guy macho-man bull****, it's called a battlefield.”

First of all he is a Marine, and we have not walked in his shoes, especially not that day. We are forced to judge him on the ideology of a 17 year old wannabee, chicken sandwich stuffer.

The Marine is successful in many ways.
He has a family,
a wife,
two sons and a
daughter.

He is paying for the food that also
includes his father’s meal.

This wannabee may have been the one serving him because he knows the full amount of the meals the Marine paid for.

A $38.00 order, which maybe a large order for a manager-in-training to take

chicken stuffers Idelogy (http://www.chick-fil-a.com/)


Why, I bet he even has one of these posters posted in his bedroom wall.

http://www.eatmorchikin.com/downloads/extreme-sports-640x480.jpg




First of all we don’t know anything about this Marine, radio relay may be the closest as to why the Marine acted the way he did.

Not in an ideal way, like the wannabee wants, but in the way a Marine that has seen combat may act, because hesitation in the battle field can cause lives. Maybe he is suffering from PTSD, it seems that way from the fact that he keeps asking,”

“What’s the problem?”


Is he impatient with the wannable manager? Or his family or one of his sons? We are not told.

If it’s the wannabee manager I can understand that frustration, heck that’s a big order for chick in a sandwich.

If it’s his son, that can be understood, as well.
<hr>

“enviro” posted “

“I thought we were talking about Marine Corps emblems and child rearing.”

What does a wannabee manager in trainee know about that?

Wearing of the emblems like a tattoo has nothing to do on how we act the way we do But this wannabee believes it does. The tread is on “Idealism.”
Based on what a 17 year old wannabee believes it is.




Hs views are distorted. then he tells us what we are;
"There's a time and a place for tough-guy macho-man bull****, it's called a battlefield."

So we are “tough-guy macho-man bull****, it's called a battlefield."

“What’s this wannabees chicken sandwhich makers problem?”

[AmericanIron87]

What’s My Problem?...

Let me try to dissect your hateful letter, 1 hateful sentence at a time. Without stooping to your level.

1)First of all, My thread was not intended to put down anyone, this is not something I intentionally do. I was simply stating my opinion on a situation I encountered.
2)The last thing I want to be is a hero.
3)I try to follow those morals I described in my post everyday, yes, do I always succeed? NO. No one is perfect.
4)Where in my post do you come to the conclusion that I didn’t get the order right?
5)Manager-In-Training, Work 40-45 hours a week <meant to give info about myself, not brag. What’s glorifying about working at Chik-fil-a?
6)How does stating I live down the street from a recruiting center, and ½ an hour from Fort Dix give me ANY credibility?
7)Yes, I am 17. Next year I have the ability to die for my country. A choice that I, a 17-year-old, have made. Nothing you or anyone else can say will change that decision. This gives me credibility.
8)You accuse me of passing judgment on a Marine, yet your whole post is 1 big judgment. Can anybody say Hypocrite?
9)For reasons unbeknownst to you, I am sensitive to child abuse. I get very angry when anyone, Marines included hit their children in public.
10)I was angry when I wrote this post, but I meant EVERYTHING I wrote.
11)Wannabe = Will Be.
12)Chicken sandwich stuffer? Ok, guilty.
13)ANYONE can make children. NOT EVERYONE can raise them right.
14)His father paid for the meal. Credit.
15)My job at Chik-fil-a is just a job, not a career. Why would I have a poster on my wall? It’s not something I aspire to be, long-term. There’s an American flag, a Marine Corps flag, Marine Corps Hymn, Cars, Famous Quotes. But no poster. Although I may get 1 now that I’ve seen it for the 1st time. It’s pretty funny.
16)Battlefield = 1 word.
17)He was impatient with everyone. Although I didn’t care, because I knew he’d be out of my face in 10 minutes. I felt bad for his family.
18)Chik in a sandwich?
19)How much can you know about the Marine Corps emblem?
20)There is nothing wrong with tattoos…Heck, when I graduate Parris Island, I’ts the first thing on my ‘to do’ list! I simply stated those things about my Uncle because he is an all-too-rare example of humility.
21)How can I tell YOU how YOU are? I have not met YOU. YOU have not met me.
22)I HAVE NOTHING BUT THE ABSOLUTE HIGHEST RESPECT FOR MARINES, AND ALL SERVICE PERSONELL. But Marines, like everyone else, are HUMAN.
23)What happened to EDUCATION in this country?

Thank you for your Post, Sparrow Hawk, I respect your OPINION.

Semper Fidelis

[enviro]

-

[Sparrowhawk]

17)He was impatient with everyone. (Including you)

"Although I didn’t care, because I knew he’d be out of my face in 10 minutes."

Sure you cared, about his impatience with you, that's why you have now labeled this Marine a child abuser.


I don't hate you, nor is it a hate letter;

I just exposed your anger that influenced your judgment and that is now evident from what you have posted. You twisted things around to cover up your incompetence in getting an order right.


The Marine posters on your wall only verify your wannabe status, you are not even a poolee. But keep that posters kid, because that’s probably the closest you will ever get to being a Marine.

You can dream all you want, but right now you are a wannabee. A recruiter will probably throw you out the door.

The fact that you like the poster of the cow only reveals where you silly mind is.

Now, don't be crying out about woe is me, for what I have gone through in life, so that we believe you can relate to that child.

You are an incompetent chicken sandwich stuffer that couldn't get the order right, so you p*ssed off a Marine and kept telling you, "What is your problem?"

Unfortunately he took that irritation with you, out on his son.

[HardJedi]

Well kid, I have only ONE problem with your post. and that is # 8

Passing judgment is something you arwe gonna have to get used to, if you wanna be a Marine. and YES, that meaqns listening to others opinions of YOU without the chance to voice your own in return.

I do not believe I have ever read ANYTHING hypocritical in ANY post by Sparrowhawk. I could be wrong though.

Why feel bad for his family? Pushing a kid is NOT child abuse. Punching him, now THAT would be child abuse. Like I have said before, kid probably knew the limits of his father and choose to ignore them, and he suffered the consequences. That's one of the problems with the world today. Try and discipline your own kid, and some busybody do-gooder calls it "child abuse"

I'll tell ya straight up, most kids these days could USE a good smack in the head. As for honest to god, authentic abuse of a child? Don't even talk to me about it. it is a crime that deserves punishment, and as a former Social Worker with The state of missouri child protective services I have seen more than my fair share.

[HardJedi]

and don't go taking the WANNABE lable like it is an insult. that is what EVERYONE is BEFORE they EARN the TITLE

[enviro]

I can understand Sparrowhawks post and even identify with it.

However, I have no freaking clue where Radio Relay is coming from. Addled your brain? You took many subjects in this thread post and connected them all together. Then have the audacity to call it the stupidest thread ever. I beg to differ with you. Read more posts around here - you'll find many more that are deserving of that title.

Don't get all high and mighty on yourself and start talking down to us either. I'll carry the hell on when I'm damn good and ready to. And kid is not my title, either.

[HardJedi]

DANG! touched a nerve did he Enviro? I don't blame you though.

[AmericanIron87]

Sir, My anger influences my judgement, Sir

Sir, I am incompetent in my job duties, Sir

Sir, I will never be a Marine, Sir

Sir, I am a dreamer and a wannabe, Sir

Sir, I have a silly mind, Sir

Sir, I am not a Marine, so I have not gone through anything hard, Sir

Sir, I am an incompetent chiken sandwich stuffer, Sir

Sir, He hit his son because of me, Sir?

[gwladgarwr]

Originally posted by AmericanIron87
Enviro: I respect your opinions & real world experience, of which you have at least a decade on me. With that said…


1) I have been told that anything less than teamwork on the battlefield is a recipe for disaster. And that the reason for constant training during peacetime is to equip you with robotic reactions during the shock & horror of war. (Robotic meaning without hesitation or thought).

What EVER made you think Marines operate like robots?! Robots only do what they're programmed to do. You may have all the instructions, orders, or training, but if you can't think for yourself and use your brains that God even gave a gopher, you AND your men are dead. And mission will NOT be accomplished. Son, it's called INITIATIVE. Robotic reaction?! You think boot camp and training come straight out of "The Manchurian Candidate" or something? Training also equips you to THINK under the stress of battlefield conditions; you are trained to ACT, not REACT.

2) I agree w/ your second paragraph, although I don’t believe a restaurant is the appropriate setting. Also, parents’ primary functions are disciplinarian & mentor. The child must know that he can come to them for assistance with any problem, without fear. And no, sir, as of yet I have not had the great priveledge of shaping a life, as I feel I have much to learn & accomplish before doing so.

ANY setting is appropriate for the discplining and instructing of a child. You think a kid should be allowed to negotiate as to when/where this should take place? You would plan on waiting until you got home to "talk" to the kid?

3) In your 4th paragraph, you state that helping people is not the Marine Corps’ mission. I must disagree w/ you whole- heartedly here. While it may not be worded that way in the orders you receive, the end result often turns out that way. Keep the replies coming!!!

Since you know nothing about the function of the Marine Corps, do read the following exerpt from the Marine Corps Manual:

United States Marine Corps Mission and Functions

The Marine Corps shall be organized, trained, and equipped to:

--Provide Fleet Marine Forces of combined arms, together with supporting air components, for service with the United States Fleet in the seizure or defense of advanced naval bases and for the conduct of such land operations as may be essential to the prosecution of a naval campaign.

--Provide detachments and organizations for service on armed vessels of the Navy, and security detachments for the protection of naval property at naval stations and bases.

--Develop, in coordination with the Army, Navy, and Air Force, the doctrines, tactics, techniques, and equipment employed by landing forces in amphibious operations. The Marine Corps shall have primary interest in the development of those landing force doctrines, tactics, techniques, and equipment whichare of common interest to the Army and the Marine Corps.

--Provide, as required, Marine forces for airborne operations, in coordination with the Army, the Navy, and the Air Force and in accordance with doctrines established by the Joint Chief of Staff.

--Develop, in coordination with the Army, the Navy, and the Air Force, doctrines, procedures, and equipment of interest to the Marine Corps for airborne operations which are not provided for by the Army.

--Be prepared, in accordance with integrated joint mobilization plans, for the expansion of the peacetime components to meet the needs of war.

--Perform such other duties as the President may direct.

The collateral functions of the Marine Corps are to:

--Maintain a Marine Corps Reserve for the purpose of providing trained units and qualified individuals to be available for active duty in the Marine Corps in time of war or national emergency and at such other times as the national security may require.

--Provide Marine officer and enlisted personnel in support of the Department of State security program overseas.

The implied functions of the Marine Corps are to:

--Organize, train, and equip Marine Corps forces for assignment to unified and specified commands in support of national war plans.

--Assign such forces to unified and specified commands, as directed.

--Support Marine Corps and other forces assigned to unified and specified, as directed.

--Support Marine Corps and other forces assigned to unified and specified commands, as directed.

--Be prepared, in accordance with integrated joint mobilization plans, to expand peacetime components to meet the needs of war. Marine Corps aviation shall be organized to provide supporting air components for the Fleet Marine Forces in the seizure or defense of advanced naval bases and in the conduct of such land operations as may be essential to the prosecution of a naval campaign; and, as a collateral function, to participate as an integral component of naval aviation in the execution of such other Navy functions as the fleet commanders may direct.

Marine Corps Manual, Chapter 1

Where in there do you see the Marine Corps as a part-time Red Cross and moveable soup kitchen to the world? Nowhere! If you want to feed the world, join the Peace Corps.

I've said this before to other poolees and DEPers, and I will say it again: don't go spouting off about things you have only BEGUN to hear about, much less learn or understand. You in particular, poolee, seem to know so much about the Marine Corps that I'm sure you can sit us down and give us a hip-pocket class on Marine Corps history and tradition. I highly suggest you read up before you ship off to boot camp.

So, in a nutshell, Marines are NOT: a) trained to be robotic; b) humanitarian aid workers à la Red Cross; c) construction workers.

[Namvet67]

Radio relay...most of the "Nam" vets I know don't have failed lives or blame anyone...they were glad to go and proud of it. Nam vets don't have to talk tough...Most of us are getting too old to be bothered with that now. However, I am sure that there are some phoney Nam vets out there..but if you know anything about Nam, you can pick out in a heart beat. I am sorry about your bad experiences with some of my brothers. Have a nice day..Semper Fi

[radio relay]

gbudd...

I was talking about the "phonies"!!!

Wow, never realised I was so misunderstood... sigh:no:

SF:marine:

[Sparrowhawk]

Originally posted by gbudd
Radio relay...most of the "Nam" vets I know don't have failed lives or blame anyone...they were glad to go and proud of it. Nam vets don't have to talk tough...Most of us are getting too old to be bothered with that now. However, I am sure that there are some phoney Nam vets out there..but if you know anything about Nam, you can pick out in a heart beat. I am sorry about your bad experiences with some of my brothers. Have a nice day..Semper Fi



gbudd

Where do you come off saying Viet Nam veterans are "Most of us are getting too old to be bothered with that now."

We are at the right age to get involved and to kick some butt.

gbudd You still have not verified where you were with the 11th Marines, don't you know what hill you were on?

Or your commanding officer?



And the barber story according to your account does not verify at all. It didn't happen where the 11th Marines were.

By the way, I posted that barber story months ago here on leatherneck.com



June 27 2002 (http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=127&highlight=barber)



You wrote in tread

The Barber (http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14608&perpage=30&highlight=barber&pagenumber=3)


Originally posted by gbudd
Haircuts in Vietnam...that brings back some memories. The local that cut my hair was in the 11th Marine compound outside of Danang. Didn't get too many haircuts and I don't remember anyone asking us to cut our hair. However, the barber that cut my hair apparently had a M.O.S. It was TET 1968 and we got penatration inside the wire. After the fight was over the next morning I found my barber in a pile of dead VC and NVA with a map he had drawn of the compound with the target being the 11th Marine FDC. The papers found on his body indicated he was a VC Colonel. True story. gbudd

If he was your barber, as you mentioned you would know something about him, that was very evident and known to all on Hill 37.

Especially since you mentioned;

"I found my barber in a pile of dead VC and NVA with a map he had drawn of the compound with the target being the 11th Marine FDC."


By the way, there was no Sapper attack or assault on Hill 37 during Tet 1968, as you mention. There was a lot of things that happened there during that time, lots of mortars and rockets but no assault on the wire.

That I know from personal knowledge and verified from Marine Corps Command Chronologies.

Just wondering where were you?

Just want to know where you are coming from as other things you have posted remain unanswered?

You can PM me if you like...

Its just that somethings you say don't make sense...

[Tom Hansen]

Everyone has the right to raise their kid(s) in the way they see fit. As long as they are not breaking the law, or mistreating them what business is it of yours to judge what that parent did. Did you have all the context of what happened before you made a judgement. If I was ever to have kids I would most certainly use some of the ideas that the Marines gave to me on raising them.

[AmericanIron87]

Robotic meaning without hesitation or thought.

1help, as described by Webster's : 1) to give support 2) Improve, Relieve 3) Benefit 4) to change for the better 5) to serve

2help: 4) one who serves or assists another.

I thought the Marines did all these things. But I'm not a Marine, so if Marines are telling me I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

[Tom Hansen]

That is what the Marines are about, your just not mature enough to see it. I'm sorry that you may not have had the best of childhoods from what you have wrote. However, don't judge something on the surfice when you may not know all the facts of what you think you saw because you likely do not know all of the facts...

tom hansen

[Sparrowhawk]

Originally posted by AmericanIron87
Robotic meaning without hesitation or thought.

1help, as described by Webster's : 1) to give support 2) Improve, Relieve 3) Benefit 4) to change for the better 5) to serve

2help: 4) one who serves or assists another.

I thought the Marines did all these things. But I'm not a Marine, so if Marines are telling me I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

You are just one stupid smartaleck kid


smart al·eck n. Informal

A person regarded as obnoxiously self-assertive.
An impudent person.

[gwladgarwr]

Originally posted by AmericanIron87
Robotic meaning without hesitation or thought.

1help, as described by Webster's : 1) to give support 2) Improve, Relieve 3) Benefit 4) to change for the better 5) to serve

2help: 4) one who serves or assists another.

I thought the Marines did all these things. But I'm not a Marine, so if Marines are telling me I'm wrong, I'm wrong.


Yes, wannabe, you're wrong.

[Booyah!]

Talk about burning bridges before you cross them.

[Pel]

Why did all this get started? Anyone care to summerize it theres a crapload of posts up there that seem to be about almost diddlysqaut.

[WillManning]

Originally posted by Sparrowhawk


You are just one stupid smartaleck kid


smart al·eck n. Informal

A person regarded as obnoxiously self-assertive.
An impudent person.


After reading the whole thread, I have to agree.

[Marzyn]

Just so you know AmericanIron,
"Nobody's an individual."(meaning an indivual is a nobody, not a Marine.)

Be sure you fix your way of sounding off before you get to bootcamp.

"Sir, My anger influences my judgement, Sir

Sir, I am incompetent in my job duties, Sir

Sir, I will never be a Marine, Sir

Sir, I am a dreamer and a wannabe, Sir

Sir, I have a silly mind, Sir

Sir, I am not a Marine, so I have not gone through anything hard, Sir

Sir, I am an incompetent chiken sandwich stuffer, Sir

Sir, He hit his son because of me, Sir?"

All those "I's" and "Me's" will get you quarter-decked faster than the grease in your fry maker can flash fry your finger.

Sir, this recruit is not an individual, sir.

just friendly reminder :)

Semper Fi
Joe

[Tom Hansen]

Reading Posts in this section always brings a smile to my face. To all the Poolies, go try to do your best. Thats all that you can do. In the years to come you will look back and smile on what you where able to do in boot camp. This will set up of for the rest of your live. Just as with boot camp your enlistment will be worth more than a 4 year degree, you will be so far ahead of your peires. Other than being in the best shape you can be in, there is nothing to get your ready for the other stuff boot camp will bring to you. You will find that time will past very quickly once your DI's pick you up at the Receiving Barracks "the sea bag drag". Just hope that you get a Barracks close to Receiving, being in the Thumping 3rd our barracks (San Deigo) was all the way done by sick bay. It seems like it took hour to get down there. Last but not least don't get caught UA smoking and ot UA phone calls Not a good thing to happen........