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thedrifter
07-07-04, 01:18 PM
Hidden Scars of Battle

A new study shows that 1 in 6 Iraq veterans has psychological damage — and the toll could get worse

Monday, Jul. 12, 2004
The operation Iraqi freedom group meets on Wednesdays at a Veterans Affairs outpatient clinic in Los Angeles. Veterans find their way to the 90-min. group-therapy sessions in a variety of ways, most of them slow and circuitous. "Often the parents call and say you've got to get them in," says clinical social worker Leslie Martin. "Some are married, and their wives make them come." Others are referred by VA doctors after a checkup detects signs of psychological distress.

Just getting vets to come in for help can be the toughest part of the job for Martin, who heads the VA's Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) Outpatient Services team for the greater Los Angeles area. Avoidance is a classic symptom of PTSD, she says. "They are 21 years old, and they say, 'All I want to do is play my Walkman and go to school.'" Or they act dutifully: "It's 'Yes, ma'am; no, ma'am; thank you, ma'am; see you around." It's not unusual for veterans suffering from PTSD to wait a year before seeking help — like a 24-year-old Marine corporal Martin knows who was discharged after finishing a tour of duty in Iraq. For months he watched the news from Iraq obsessively and was worried about "my guys over there." Then one day he began weeping uncontrollably. Martin calls this a "breakthrough," not a breakdown. It's what finally prompted him to get help.

Veterans groups and the U.S. military are only beginning to get a sense of the psychological fallout of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, but a major study published in the New England Journal of Medicine last week brought the problem into sharp focus. The study, which involved 6,200 soldiers and Marines and was conducted by a team at the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research, is the first attempt to understand the psychological effects of a U.S. war while it is ongoing. Most of the participants were screened within three or four months of returning from battle, when memories — and any psychological wounds — were still fairly fresh. "One of our goals is to describe the onset of PTSD," says Lieut. Colonel Carl Castro, a Walter Reed psychologist, who led the study along with Dr. Charles Hoge. Many experts believe that early identification of symptoms and early intervention could help prevent the kind of massive psychological devastation seen in veterans of the Vietnam War. Some 30% of Vietnam vets eventually suffered PTSD — a grab bag of psychological effects that can include flashbacks, sleep disorders, panic attacks, emotional numbness and violent outbursts. "Here we were trying to be proactive, to better support returning soldiers," says Castro.

Men and women participating in the study completed a detailed psychological assessment anonymously — a measure that researchers believe was largely responsible for a high rate of cooperation. One group was evaluated before deployment to Iraq. Other groups were evaluated after returning from Iraq or Afghanistan in 2003. These participants were asked for specific details about their combat experiences. Among the key findings:

--As many as 17% of veterans who had been deployed in Iraq showed symptoms of PTSD, depression or anxiety. Of the total, more than 12% had symptoms of PTSD.

--About 11% of those who served in Afghanistan had symptoms of PTSD, depression or anxiety. Of this total, only 6% had PTSD symptoms.

--The risk of developing PTSD rose in direct proportion to the number of fire fights a soldier had experienced. Thus the rate was 4.5% for Iraq war veterans who had experienced no fire fights, 9.3% for those who had seen one or two fire fights, 12.7% for three to five, and 19.3% for those who had been through more than five such battles. The lower rate of PTSD symptoms among those who served in Afghanistan vs. those who served in Iraq could be largely explained by their lesser exposure to combat.

--Before deployment, the rate of PTSD in a sample of soldiers was 5%, about the same as it is for the American population in general (PTSD can be caused by sexual abuse, violent crime and other kinds of trauma). This is the first study to establish a base line for service members and should help resolve questions about whether they start out more psychologically fragile than other groups.

--The soldiers with the most symptoms were the ones who expressed the most qualms about seeking help and were the least likely to ask for treatment. They were worried about doing harm to their careers and to their reputations with commanders and comrades.

Service members in this study showed, on average, a somewhat higher rate of psychological damage than that seen in veterans of the Gulf War. But some experts are concerned that the figure may go higher still. "People in this survey were in the first part of the war, and the war has changed from a liberation campaign to a counterinsurgency effort," notes Dr. Matthew Friedman, executive director of the VA's National Center for PTSD. "The amount of uncertainty and traumatic exposure has increased." And as tours of duty are extended, Friedman points out, the risks only go up. Finally, the study did not look at any reservists or members of the National Guard, who tend to suffer higher rates of psychological damage than career Marines and soldiers, who are better trained and prepared for battle.

The good news is that PTSD can be successfully treated with a wide range of techniques including cognitive-behavioral therapy and drugs like Paxil and Zoloft. "The more immediate the intervention, the better, and the more likely that chronic problems can be avoided," says Dr. Ilan Kutz, an Israeli psychiatrist with extensive experience dealing with the disorder.

This is what makes the reluctance to be treated so tragic. Having learned hard lessons from Vietnam vets, the U.S. armed forces have beefed up efforts to provide psychological services to soldiers before, during and after combat. Castro hopes a new program providing free, confidential counseling from civilian therapists will appeal to those too ashamed to look for help within the military. (The hotline: 800-464-8107.) But his study shows there's more work to be done to counteract the stigma that keeps those most in need of aid from getting it.

— With reporting by Margot Roosevelt/Los Angeles

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101040712-660943,00.html


Ellie

SemperFiGirl79
07-07-04, 01:59 PM
I read that yesterday...informative article.

grayshade
07-07-04, 02:51 PM
Marines are an ignorant bunch. Usually there's nothing wrong unless they're dead. I have PTSD, and it took me about a year to a year and a half before I saw a counselor. I use to have flashbacks and nightmares. I'd physically hurt people and myself, and have no idea I did. I'm alot better now. I still get flashbacks, but they're more visions now, just things I remember. So, I can relate and understand how they feel, but I also know sometimes it takes someone who cares to get a Marine to see a doctor.

thedrifter
07-07-04, 03:11 PM
grayshade


It took Roger 35 years before he seeked help.....His last year before his death...He felt more at peace with himself.....How he put it to me at least I know that I'm not the only one, that thinks I'm crazy......He was able to work within himself too seek solutions with the help of Fellow Vets.....I just hope more folks seek to get help sooner than Roger....No one needs that type of Life.


Ellie

thedrifter
07-08-04, 09:59 AM
Issue Date: December ,

1 in 6 Iraq combat vets at risk for mental disorder
Many returning from war won’t seek help, study says

By Deborah Funk
Times staff writer

As many as one in six soldiers and Marines returning from Iraq or Afghanistan may be at risk for post-traumatic stress or other mental disorders, but relatively few of those who need care seek it out, according to a Defense Department study.
The lingering perception of stigma toward mental health care within the military keeps well over half of affected troops from getting that care, according to the study’s findings, reported in the July 1 New England Journal of Medicine.

Reports of major depression, generalized anxiety disorder and post-traumatic stress were greater among troops exposed to combat, with the highest rates seen among troops returning from Iraq, the study said.

The findings suggest “as many as 9 percent of soldiers may be at risk for mental disorders before combat deployment, and as many as 11 to 17 percent may be at risk for such disorders three to four months after their return,” researchers wrote.

But of troops whose responses indicated they had a mental disorder, just 23 percent to 40 percent sought professional help.

Many who needed care but did not seek it wanted to avoid letting commanders and peers know of their problems because of the stigma of psychiatric care, according to the study.

Half said they perceived it would harm their careers if they sought treatment. Even higher percentages said they would be seen as weak; would be treated differently by their unit leaders; that unit peers would have less confidence in them; or that it would be hard to get time off work for treatment.

Troops whose responses indicated a mental disorder were twice as likely to worry about barriers than those whose responses did not indicate a mental disorder, the study said.

Military efforts to address concerns of stigma and other barriers to seeking mental health care should focus on outreach, education and changes in health care delivery models, including improving mental health services in primary care clinics and providing confidential counseling, the authors wrote.

“Screening for major depression is becoming routine in military primary care settings, but our study suggests that it should be expanded to include screening for PTSD,” they said.

Army Lt. Col. Carl Castro, one of two lead investigators on the research, said these are just the early findings of an ongoing study, and noted that more than 80 percent of troops are “coping very well.”

Researchers said they wanted to identify mental health problems early and find out what stood between the troops and their getting care.

“We were trying to ... attack this cultural stigma toward mental health,” said Castro, deputy chief of psychiatry and behavioral sciences at the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research.

Army Col. (Dr.) Charles Hoge, the other lead investigator, said the study “puts numbers to what we already knew” and also gives a more complete picture of service members’ concerns.

Steve Robinson, executive director for the National Gulf War Resource Center, said the findings are not surprising. For months, soldiers he spoke with have reported a stigma in getting help.

Troops claimed seeking mental health care would kill their careers. Many also said their command climate was to just “suck it up.”

When the Army initially charged a Fort Carson, Colo., soldier with cowardice when he said he was too psychologically traumatized to do his job while serving in Iraq, it had a “chilling effect” on soldiers, Robinson said.

Defense officials need to send a message to the field that troops won’t suffer retaliation or harm to their careers if they come forward for treatment, he said.

“Being wounded from psychological injury or mental illness is the same as being wounded from a bullet or a bomb,” Robinson said.

Defense officials said they have taken steps, such as sending more mental health experts to Iraq. In addition, the Army, for example, offers six confidential counseling sessions through its Army One Source program (www.armyonesource.com), and will refer soldiers for more treatment if necessary.

Not surprisingly, the research found that the more firefights a service member was involved in, the higher the rates of post-traumatic stress disorder. Some 4.5 percent of troops not involved in a firefight met the criteria for PTSD, compared to roughly 19 percent of those who were in more than five firefights.

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story.php?f=0-MARINEPAPER-3061507.php


Ellie

earlofgray
07-11-04, 08:00 AM
It's been 22years am now seeking help from the va.I was in beirut 82, I went to the doc when I got back he was no help told me to get drunk my wife has told about the anger and my willingness ,Well you guys know how willing force marines are

Sgt. Smitty
08-06-04, 09:59 AM
Once a person gets over the idea of "there's nothin wrong with me, it's everybody else" and the denial of anything being wrong with them, then they can begin to deal with their "GHOSTS"....it took me nearly 30 years to finally admit to myself that there was more goin on in my head than i was willing to accept. It only took one piece of paper with the list of PTSD symptoms on it to turn my world inside out. I sought out proffessional help through the county programs and ended up with a Vietnam vet that had more problems than I did. That's when i turned to the VA and got myself some real help, or so i thought. All the VA did was put me on meds and tell me to have a good life!! So now it's up to me and my wife to deal with all the crap in my life and try to live out the rest of my days as happy as i can. My shrink still thinks i'm a little too far out to sea cause I tell her I have a spirit of a young boy and his dog roaming around the house. No joke......my wife and I aren't the only ones that have seen him. Other people that have stayed the night said that they saw him too.........So you tell me who is crazy and who isn't.........there is a very thin line between sanity and insanity..........and i know i haven't crossed over it yet....I hope......LOL......Besides.........any vet that has been in combat has PTSD in one form or another......they go hand in hand

BHABIT
08-06-04, 12:41 PM
I couldn't agree with you more Smitty... I've past throught the simular landscape you have. My brother, my friend, has 100% disability that he recieved about 2 years ago... The VA has got him on so much that he mostly doesn't live in present time. We go back many years and I've watched him go down hill day by day. He constantly tells me that I need to go to the VA and get treatment. It's been 35 years depending on how you want to count them, some times it's good but mostly not. Two years ago was the time of my awakening, I had a compleat mental collapse and now find myself taking a handfull of pills a day. My wife, bless her, has stuck though it with me and helps me deal with the day to day life. What's really needed in society is more education and understanding of PTSD, so the innocents don't find themselves in a position of jeopardy.

Sgt. Smitty
08-18-04, 09:58 AM
It's really a shame that the only ones that are concerned with PTSD are the servicemen/women that are suffering from it's long-lasting and devastating affects. The govt. doesn't understand it or care enough to fully explore the causes and effects this crippling disease, as i call it, has on the ones that have to deal with it on a day to day basis. For me, getting past the denial stage and admitting to myself that it was me that was all messed up in the head, was the hardest thing i ever had to do. The rest has come fairly easy once i committed myself to dealing with this. And i don't me easy easy. I've gone through a total mental breakdown like you did BHABIT, and it's taken me years to get to the point to where i can deal with things on a day to day basis, ya see PTSD is not the only issue we have to deal with. Along with it goes a host of other ill feelings towards this country and this govt. for all the lies and disrespect thrown in our faces. THAT is gonna be the hardest obstacle for me to overcome.

MillRatUSMC
08-18-04, 11:28 AM
From my point of view, there's many factors that contribute to what we now know as Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder or just PTSD.
There the lack of sleep, body being constantly on the alerted, suppression of certain feelings.
Seeing the horrors of war.
Not being able to talk about these feelings or fears,
No normal outlet for the above.
All are suppress, so you can function in a maddening world.
What we know as PTSD has been around as long as war itself.
Its been known by several names; "the old soldier disease" "Shell Shock" to name a few.
Some say, "get over it!" but how do you get over what is in your mind?
Some try to supress it by drinking to excess, only to find that a band-aid that does not work.
Medications and talking to express the feelings we had to supress just to survive in that maddening world.
Some of us have sought relief in poetry or story telling.
Those allow you to express what deep inside.
Some are a cry for help, others are a release from our fears.
As the last line from a "Protrait of a Soldier" saying ;
"Can You See Me?"
That what many suffering PTSD which that many could see what on their minds.
Than there would be no need for words such as;
"Get Over It!"
Because they would have seen the horrors of war...

Semper Fidelis/Semper Fi
Ricardo

PS They're correct when they say that tears are a sign that you need help.
So you can help adjust the anger that you came back with and did not know how to control.
Should the government that send you to war be more responsive to our needs?
When it said and done, they tend to forget you.
Those are the realities of war.

MillRatUSMC
08-18-04, 02:42 PM
We forgot "survivor guilt" in that mix, we question the why of it.
My memory isn't what it use to be.
The fog of war, I was just at the Vietnam Memorial Wall on the web.
On the night of 24 -25 April 1965, L/Cpl Randall Kenneth Campbell USMC and Pfc Carl Richard Wenzel USMC died on a mountain top.
I was a member of a platoon from India 3/4 that was send to try and relieve some pressure off that Recon team.
On the way there, I met 1st. Lt. Frank S. Reasoner USMC, he had been my Platoon Leader till we got to Okinawa.
There I was transfered to a Marine infantry company.
To put it better, I almost blew them away, because I was told that there would be "No Friendlys" in the area.
After I told him of the mix-up, he gave me orders to stay where we were at.
If they were in need of help, he would fire a white star cluster.
They left, a while later the Lt. in charge of that platoon asked "What are we doing staying here?"
I told him of the orders that Lt. Reasoner gave me.
He said BS, get me up there.
We worked our way there, when we arrived they had already medvac the remains of Randy and Carl.
That team told that Randy had died trying to booby-trap a hand grenade.
Later they heard rustling of the bushes in front of their harborsite, the next thing they heard was "Comcook, Comcook" my English of the Vietnamese words.
They thought it had meant "Shoot, Shoot" because all hades broke loose.
Randy page says;
RANDALL KENNETH CAMPBELL

LCPL - E3 - Marine Corps - Regular
20 year old Single, Caucasian, Male
Born on Sep 18, 1944
From CANADA
Length of service 1 year.
Casualty was on Apr 25, 1965
in THUA THIEN, SOUTH VIETNAM
HOSTILE, GROUND CASUALTY
OTHER EXPLOSIVE DEVICE
Body was recovered
Religion
PROTESTANT

Panel 01E - - Line 109

Carl's page says;
CARL RICHARD WENZEL

PFC - E2 - Marine Corps - Regular
20 year old Single, Caucasian, Male
Born on Jun 19, 1944
From ALLEGANY, NEW YORK
Length of service 1 year.
Casualty was on Apr 25, 1965
in THUA THIEN, SOUTH VIETNAM
HOSTILE, GROUND CASUALTY
GUN, SMALL ARMS FIRE
Body was recovered
Religion
PROTESTANT

Panel 01E - - Line 109
We will never forget you...
Why?

Semper Fidelis/Semper Fi
Ricardo

MillRatUSMC
08-19-04, 10:15 PM
Let me make a few corrections
From my point of view, there's many factors that contribute to what we now know as Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder or just PTSD.
There the lack of sleep, body being constantly on the alert, suppression of certain feelings.
Seeing the horrors of war.
Not being able to talk about these feelings or fears,
No normal outlet for the above.
All were suppress, so you can function in a maddening world.
What we know as PTSD has been around as long as war itself.
Its been known by several names; "The Old Soldier Disease" "Shell Shock" to name a few.
Some say, "get over it!" but how do you get over what is in your mind?
Some try to supress it by drinking to excess, only to find that its a band-aid that does not work.
Medications and talking to express the feelings we had to supress just to survive in that maddening world.
That the way to get out of PTSD.
Some of us have sought relief in poetry or story telling.
Those allow you to express what deep inside.
Some are a cry for help, others are a release from our fears.
As the last line from a "Protrait of a Soldier" says ;
"Can You See Me?"
That what many suffering PTSD wish that many could see what on their minds.
Than there would be no need for words such as;
"Get Over It!"
Because they would have seen the horrors of war...

Semper Fidelis/Semper Fi
Ricardo

PS They're correct when they say that tears are a sign that you need help.
So you can get help in adjusting the anger that you came back with and did not know how to control.
Should the government that send you to war be more responsive to our needs?
When it said and done, they tend to forget you.
Those are the realities of war.

Semper Fidelis/Semper Fi
Ricardo

Sgt. Smitty
10-06-04, 09:30 AM
It would be real nice if the military gave vets some idea of the problems that they will face in trying to readjust to civilian life before they are discharged.........at least give them a clue as to what the hell life has in store for them. The only thing i got when i got my discharge was a piece of paper and a dirty look from the first shirt as i left the CO's office, no physical, no counseling or anything else that would help me be better prepared for what lay ahead of me. Now i live from day to day, take the pills the govt. gives me, remain somewhat of a recluse and still wonder if someone could define NORMAL to me.

Sgt. Smitty
10-06-04, 09:40 AM
As far as SURVIVORS GUILT goes, only the ones that came home alive will ever have to deal with that question, and after 35 years i still have no clue as to why i came home in one piece (physically) and so many others never got to see the WORLD again. That's one question that has no answer...it just makes more questions. The only way i can deal with it is that i did come home, and that i was 20 goin on 40. There is no good that can come from war as far as the individual Marine or soldier is concerned. I quit wondering why i came home and so many others didn't because there is no answer to that question.