View Full Version : Betrayed By A Marine
Sparrowhawk
06-30-04, 09:51 AM
Ellie As well as others have posted information on the missing Marine in Baghdad.
I wanted to start a new thread about the subject of Marine betrayal, desertion, and what it means to us, as Marines.
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The Marine Corps issued a statement that the Marine had deserted.
Corporal Hassoun, a 24-year-old Marine linguist who was born in Lebanon, was shaken up after he saw one of his sergeants blown apart by a mortar shell.
"It was very disturbing to him, he wanted to go home and quit the game," a Marine officer said.
Hassoun had deserted the military because he was emotionally traumatized.
Fellow Muslims, he had befriended helped sneak him off his post. He was trying to make his way home to his native Lebanon.
Instead of helping him get home, the Muslims turned him over to his kidnappers who are now threatening him with beheading.
"He said a lot of soldiers, they don't want to die, especially when they see someone dying in front of them," said the cousin, Tarek Hassoun, who lives in Salt Lake City.
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My thoughts;
I saw many Marines in the battlefield shocked and fearful when they saw first hand the brutality of war. We all feared death, until you saw a Marine get killed or wounded then you reacted. You either fought and helped or cowed and sought shelter.
I saw Marines who had peed in their pants, vomited, cried, called for their mother. Or froze while taking fire in the open rice paddies of South East Asia.
Some ran from an assault after throwing down their weapons, others tried desperately to get on a medevac chopper to get out of the battlefield.
Some of us have never faced the reality of war, others have had to fight for life, their own, and that of other Marines, and some died in that process.
Some Marines meet their limits in war, and for that I don't blame them. I do however have a problem when a Marine Deserts, when he betrays the trust we placed on him to be there. This Marine was trying to save his own skin and is now capable of anything, including turning to fight against his own.
Those are my thoughts;
"In the battlefield, I feared more letting down a fellow Marine then I feared death." (Dreams of Glory 2004 (c), R.M. Cook Barela)
Namvet67
06-30-04, 09:57 AM
I am with you on this one Cook. I too saw what you saw in Vietnam but I never saw a deserter. I have a real problem with this story and I am still not satisfied we have all the facts on this. Semper Fi means exactly that. Welcome Home.
I have personally reserved "outrage" that a fellow Marine has been kidnapped because of the circumstances surrounding it. His command said he went UA. There's no way they would have listed him UA if they didn't have a solid reason to do so - especially in a war zone.
I've always had an extreme dislike for those who quit their post. I am almost at the point to say this guy deserves what he gets, but at the same time, it's a slap in the face for the Marines. I'm just not sure who's doing the slapping - the terrorists or Corporal Hassoun.
One thing's for sure - I bet this kid regrets it. I'll bet he's figured out which group of people would have taken better care of him - the Marines or the Muslim Extremists.
Either way, Corporal Hassoun's life is over. He'll either be killed by the terrorists or he'll come back and spend the rest of his life in the brig (or possibly death) for deserting a combat zone. Either way, I don't feel sorry for him.
cjwright90
06-30-04, 10:09 AM
If he deserted, he broke the code. He let down other Marines. He let down the Brotherhood. Do I want to see him beheaded at the hands of the kidnappers, no. No because he is an American. No because he is a Marine. No because he is a human being.
Sgt. Smitty
06-30-04, 10:55 AM
He deserves what he gets........if he gets his head lopped off--so be it. I wouldn't go to his funeral either......he's a disgrace to the Corps, the uniform, the oath he took and to this country. Desertion in a combat situation should be a firing squad offense as far as I'm concerned. Did he think combat would be a damned picnic or what?
Namvet67
06-30-04, 10:57 AM
Enviro...I agree with you on this one. Cpl Wright..I also can see how you feel about this but it will be up to the Corps to do the right thing. We do not have all the facts on this and I do believe there is something missing here (my gut feeling). Semper Fi
Namvet67
06-30-04, 11:02 AM
You sure can tell who was or was not in a combat zone by the remarks that are being made on this story.
Sgt. Smitty
06-30-04, 11:19 AM
A coward is a coward..........a raghead is a raghead........shoot them both
The only real deserter I ever saw in Nam was a kid who did a 180 and ran during an ambush and kept on running until he ran into a another Marine outfit. Turned out the kid had lied about his age to get in so nothing really happened to him, just got shipped home. Had another guy that I litterally had to drag across a rice paddy during an assault, his first time under fire, but he turned out to be okay, just needed a little modivation.
Namvet67
06-30-04, 11:39 AM
Digger...I don't know about you but when I got to Nam I more afraid of getting shot by my platoon Sgt than the VC. It was very clear to me on where the real danger was. Tet 68 was no picnic. Sgt Smitty...Say it like it is. Welcome home to both of you. Semper Fi
According to the Wahington Post
"the Marine Corps Tuesday officially changed its view of Hassoun and declared him to be a captive, not a deserter. "
" A Marine Corps spokeswoman, Capt. Amy Malugani, said, "The circumstances surrounding his absence are still being investigated"
cjwright90
06-30-04, 11:55 AM
Is not desertion in time of war akin to a death penalty offense?
I must admit, I did not serve in any combat zones, getting EAS'd right before DS1. I do know, that I made a committment to the Corps, and my country. I also know that I have been shot at in my duty stations (MARBKS GUAM MI) at the front gate. I did what my training was. Got instantly out of harms way and called a security alert on myself. I do not get grossed out seeing carnage, but to date have only seen animal carnage and only pictures of human casualties. I still do not believe I would ever desert. I knew when I signed that I could have gone to combat, and took the oath you all took as well. The human side of me hopes he makes it. The Marine side of me is ****ed that he deserted, for whatever reason, and knows that his command, and our Corps will take care of the rest.
DSchmitke
06-30-04, 12:07 PM
By Firing Squad or Death by Hanging ?
Lock-n-Load
06-30-04, 12:32 PM
:marine: I'm glad to see your statement, "You can tell who was in a combat zone by the remarks that are being made on this story"...Welcome to the club...I realized the same when I came aboard in...
The more I hear this story being played out on the news, the more I see it becoming a black mark for the Corps.
Though not as bad as the army guy who grenaded his platoon, it is still not charachteristic of what people believe the Marine Corps to be.
About the death penalty for this guy, I don't think it can be awarded to him because we aren't officially in a "war" declared by congress. I'll have to look into that further, though.
Namvet67
06-30-04, 12:42 PM
Back at you Lock-n-Load....I know you been there..done that.. Semper Fi
sgt.lane
06-30-04, 01:59 PM
Yes, although it was wrong for him to desert, there is still the fact that HE is Marine, a Marine that has been to combat is a Marine, and a Marine who served is a Marine. Lets not divide who is who, and who has been where. I did eight years in the Corps and did not see a combat zone. I have been in the combat zone working the streets and working the streets as a K-9 officer here in the good ole USA. My first homicide scene was a good friend of mine and I had to tell his son his father was murdered and was not coming back. It is all about perspective. Just my two cents worth,
grayshade
06-30-04, 02:22 PM
Seeing a dead brother is not a sight I would wish on any other Marine. It changes your psyche alot. But one should never leave his other brothers behind. Others could have died by him leaving his post. Sorry to say, what happens, happens.
Grayshade:(
enviro
I wouldn't worry about this guy being a black mark on the Corps. The embassy Marine in Moscow that traded secrets for Russian booty in the '80s didn't leave a lasting black mark on the Corps.
radio relay
06-30-04, 08:29 PM
Well, not being a Grunt, I never walked point, or went toe to toe with charlie in a rice paddy, no "Hearts" or "Stars", and have been made fun of here by the "real", bad a$$ed, Grunt Mo Fo's for wearing a john wayne on my dog tags. However, much to the big surprise of these Grunts, some of us "poges" got a little trigger time, too.
The first time I saw a little, figure, that looked more like a kid than an adult, running through the smoke, under the orange glow of overhead flares, I just about sh!t my pants.
It wasn't that I was afraid for myself, but that I realised it was all real, and here there was an actual, bonafied enemy in my line of fire, and that I was: 1. going to have to try to kill it, and: 2. if I didn't kill it, it would possibly kill some of my buddies, and 3: their blood would be on my hands, if that enemy killed any of them before I killed it. So, I drew a bead and dropped it. "It", the "enemy", turned out to be a female V.C. It doesn't trouble me, but I still see her mutilated body (she was carrying a sachel that went off) lieing in the dust, and remember feeling shocked that I'd killed a woman. Better her than any Marine. Better her, than me.
My job was non-combatant (sic), but in the year I was in country, I had other experiences of gooks in the wire, snipers, incomming, and was in a convoy ambush. I was always scared, but never afraid, and only concerned for the other Marines around me. I know it was the same way they felt, too. I also never witnessed any other Marine show cowardice under fire. Maybe that's because I didn't have the number of experiences under fire that many others did. Maybe I just wasn't paying attention. I can't say.
I do know some Marines deserted, but not while under fire. I also knew one who shot himself in the foot to get sent home (he went to LBJ, instead).
Point is, that Marines take care of other Marines. We watch each other's backs. It ain't always pretty, but that's why we're Marines! Cowards in combat are scum. Deserters are lower!
If that Marine in Iraq, deserted, then I have little respect, or concern for him. If he was captured, then I'm wanting to see every once of effort expended to rescue him, and get him back. No matter.
The jury is still out. I'm not there. I don't know. I can't judge.
Since he is an American. I do not wish to see physical harm come to him. God bless, and keep him, until he is home safe.
I don't think you have to have ever been in combat to know the difference between desertion and just being scared. A coward is a coward. I'm thinking this character (Iwon't call him a Marine) thought it would be cool to join the Marines but when he got over there, just couldn't fire at "his" people. It was easier to do what they have done for hundreds of years and run! There is nor such thing as "death before dishonor" to a raghead!!!
greensideout
06-30-04, 09:00 PM
Deserter or captive? Guess we will have to wait and see what the outcome is.
One thing that doesn't change---He is a Marine.
I think it's a little too early to make judgement. He may not at all be like the expericances that some have shared about earlier days.
He is a Marine---stand by him till we get the facts. We will know then if he failed us and the Corps or was taken out by his "buds" for the sake of the resistance.
The last I heard was that the Corps has him MIA
If this Marine did go ua, then throw the book at him, if he didn't, then let it drop, like what has already been said let all of the facts come to the surface and then let things go the way that they are to go. He is a Marine first and formost, and when he escapes or is retrieved by our Marines he can clear this matter up. Lets get him home first before judgement of any kind is passed on this fellow Marine. SEMPER FI!!!
CplDawson
07-01-04, 12:35 PM
I am still guarded...We the Media is trying to portray the Muslim religion as a peaceful one, and is pandering left and right to them to show this is not a crusade.
However they have declared a crusade against the U.S. and any other country that is not Muslim.
I have a sneaking suspicion that this Clown was deserting because of his religious beliefs and trying to get home to his wife.
I do not believe he just wandered off and got lost. They are trying to avoid the politics of convicting a Marine Muslim being talked into deserting.
I say a good ol' fashion fireing squad for him if he makes it back.
Now here is another problem I see.
If they kill him, they killed a Muslim! one of there own. This will only further in-rage the clerics and the people.
This should be interesting.....
CplDawson
07-01-04, 12:45 PM
{greensideout said: Deserter or captive? Guess we will have to wait and see what the outcome is. One thing that doesn't change---He is a Marine. I think it's a little too early to make judgement....
Namvet67
07-01-04, 12:53 PM
Could not of said it better myself Cpl Dawson...Semper Fi
I think we've hashed this out before, but it seems to be applicable here. <br />
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One thing that sets us apart is that once you earn the title, NO ONE can ever take that away from you. <br />
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Any additional...
CplDawson
07-01-04, 01:16 PM
Did any one notice on one of the pictures he (the deserter) had some Dimond looking patches on his sleeve almost like the army rangers looking green patch any one see that ad know what it is?
usmc03wannabe
07-01-04, 01:44 PM
Tracermike from TheFew.com had this to say:
"The black squares are Velcro. You put IR. reflective tabs on them. It allows those with NVGs to tell you from the enemy. You also put them on the top of your kevlar. Everybody in country (that I ever saw) wears them.
As for the rank, almost no one I knew wore rank on their collars when we went over. Digs into you when you wear body armor. I don't know if that the case with this guy, maybe someone took it off him as a souvenir, but for us we just had it (rank) drawn on the flaps of our flak jackets. Nothing to break or lose. Also that keeps it from getting chipped and therefore shining."
CplDawson
07-01-04, 01:56 PM
You can earn the title. But the title Marine is more then just a name on a piece of paper its a Heart, Mind and Soul experience.
Its supposed to be something that sets us apart from any other branch and from being a civilian.
Was it not the Calvaery that would strip a man of his uniform, rank, and title break his sword and paint a yellow stripe down there back cymbolising being a Coward! and then DRUMED them out and sent them packing thus the term DRUMED OUT OF THE CORPS.
We are not taking the title from him. He threw it away when he walked off the battle field and left behind the Corps!
We take care of our own, but he did not want to be a part of US!
HardJedi
07-01-04, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by enviro
One thing that sets us apart is that once you earn the title, NO ONE can ever take that away from you.
Any additional titles a Marine wants to earn (i.e. traitor, deserter, etc..) are applicable too. He's one of ours and we will have to deal with it.
There are no ex-Marines.
Well Said. Just becuase you don't like what a member of your family has done, does not mean that they are no longer a member.
I alway's took that whole "we take care of our own" to mean just that. Good or bad, once you are a Marine, we WILL take care of you, one way, or the other.
GunnerMike
07-01-04, 02:20 PM
There was much made about cultural sensitivity training that was given prior to the current Marine deployment into Iraq. Perhaps the Corporal had been approached and befriended by some of the locals and was asked if he wished to attend prayers at the local area Mosque? If so, the sensitivity training became a double edged sword.
Ahh, I had better cease rambling.
The only thing I want to say is that you can't pass judgement on this Marine on hearsay. I was at 29 Palms one September, I think it was 1988. A Marine was found to be missing during Rifle turn in to the Armory. It was first put out that he had gone UA or Deserted with his weapon. This was a couple of days after returning from the field. We flew many many reconnaisance missions looking all over the Desert for this young Lance Corporal. When it was all said and done, LCPL Jason Rothers had been left out in the desert during a training mission and he died of exposure to the elements. I don't think they found his body for over a year. My point is, the first thing out of his commands mouth was that he was UA. In the end a Marine lost his life to a death more horrific that having his head chopped off by terrorists.
Until an investigation is conducted and we know all the facts, let's not pass judgement on this young Corporal.
We can't honestly assume he didn't want to be a Marine.
We can assume he didn't want to be where he was at.
I remember this time we spent a month in Norway. Cold weather training. I wanted to get the hell out of that place so bad - but I didn't act on it. I could get into a p|ssing contest with anyone about how I love the Marine Corps more than you do. Endless arguement with no winners, but the point is, I wasn't happy with the duty - but loved the Corps.
Cpl Houssan was supposedly experiencing some trauma from some things he witnessed. He was under the influence of some muslim homos that worked on the base. His mind failed him. He had a brainfart and now he will most likely pay for it with his life.
There is one exception that I might agree with you on this subject. It's a scenario that will have to see it played out before we ever believe it. Goes like this:
Cpl Houssan did desert with the aid of his muslim homo brothers and they have faked this huge kidnapping scheme to make him disappear.
This scenario is possible since we haven't ever heard of the terrorist group that has him and we haven't heard from them since.
Hell, now I'm starting to sound like eddief with my conspiracy theory! Thanks Eddie!
CplDawson
07-01-04, 03:33 PM
Well I guess I see things in Black and white not Gray....to each his own...I say if he is found guilty fireing squad.
Well then Black and White is "Once a Marine, Always a Marine"
Cut and dry - no exceptions.
Glad we agree.
yellowwing
07-01-04, 04:14 PM
Whatever the real story, I think its going end worse than a firing squad. If he did break faith, this is going to be one heck of a deterrant.
Thank you, GunnyL
Altho I've never been in combat, I did do a turn at legal beagle. Got to see plenty of interesting 8x10 glossies on that stint. Like the Sgt who didn't like his wife anymore and hired a hit man to take her out. They found her a week later.
This Cpl earned the title. He was traumatized while in a war zone. Instead of turning to his NCOIC, he took matters into his own hands.
Bad judgment call, I'd say. If he's still alive, he's definitely learned a lesson - albeit the hard way.
greybeard
07-03-04, 01:00 AM
According to the 'news', he was born in Lebanon, and wanted to flee to that country after seeing his first casualty. He enlisted the aid of local Muslims to that end. He did NOT ask to be returned to CONUS, or be transferred to another unit, perhaps in Kuwait. He just wanted to leave and go to a foriegn country-Lebanon.
I 'wanted' to run from MCRD. I 'wanted' to leave from ITR. I damn sure didn't want to fly back into the Ashau, and wanted to run-but I didn't. I knew I couldn't-and wouldn't, no matter how much I wanted to.
I feel becoming a Marine is much more than graduating from MCRD, completing the Crucible or whatever it is today. It's an in-tangible. WE know what it is, but it's something we can't always explain or put our finger on. Camradrie-Loyalty- Unending Brotherhood. We and the world, know it as SEMPER FIDELIS. If they don't have it, they aren't Marines. It's just that simple.
I knew guys who graduated MCRD. They even went to combat. But deep down, there was something missing. It just wasn't there. They earned the title, wore the uniform, but they lacked that intangible. I never was comfortable around them. They were just markin time. For some, it can develope later--for some, it never does. Semper Fidelis. You learn of it in boot camp, get a greater sense of it in later training, but it truly comes to the top in combat, (often from those you'd least expect it from.) And, it stays with you your entire life. That's the part that no one can ever take away.
I say Cpl Houssan hasn't lost the title 'Marine', because of his desertion in combat. I say he never really was one. He probably really wanted to be Marine, but in the end, he just didn't have it.
To me, he isn't an 'ex' Marine, he's just 'nothing'.
FREEBIRD
07-03-04, 09:06 PM
Well, I guess I'll put my 2 cents worth on this one.............
I have read all the post up to this one and the only one, and I repeat the only one I agree with is the one above this one by GreyBeard.........
You can say you earn a title and its yours for life and I'll always say B U L L S H I T !!!!
I agree they all say that, but every Marine Knows that to be a Marine is to be a true Brother and if the MAGGOT did what they say he did, then hes Just like John Kerry to me, and as GreyBeard put it " A Nothing"
Combat or no combat you dont desert your brothers that are counting on you, I think this freak just wanted to get away as far and as easy as he could, but who really knows, we probably never will, they only tell you waht they want you to hear!!!
I guess everybody has opinions, and they all stink, but I think either you are or are not a Marine, Bootcamp dont mean Nuthin!!!
I saw a lot of pathetic scum in the 8 years I did, some were true brothers and true marines, others were just playing the role and i know you all have seen the type.
Anyway I got my 2 cents worth,
FREEBIRD
greensideout
07-03-04, 10:44 PM
Interesting?
I don't know where some of you get your information but I just pull mine down from the main-stream media and mags.
So far, they have had this Marine's home in four different countries. His reason for being AWOL are as many. I'm still trying to sort it out.
Did he cut and run? I sure as hell could not make that determination based upon the news that I have read.
Get out the rope and find an oak tree? Not with the information that I have read so far.
How about---we get the facts and then make judgement!
We are no longer 19 year olds with half baked brains. Everything is no longer black and white---as we choose to remember the past.
It may be true that he did a cut and run. If so, get out the rope.
But what if he didn't?
greybeard
07-04-04, 12:07 AM
My post, like a lot of others we all make, is based on the info we have. Officers in the region, and in CONUS, reported he was on his way to Lebanon. IF it turns out to be false, I'll be the 1st to say I'm an ass for posting what I did.
snipowsky
07-04-04, 12:41 AM
I haven't heard any news about this guy deserting his unit. If this is true. I'm happy to say this guy got what he deserved. But I won't buy any of this if there is no video of him being beheaded.
If this isn't true I'll feel terrible for even thinking it.
I hope it isn't true.
I'm sure in time we will really know the truth.