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thedrifter
06-24-04, 08:02 PM
'Fahrenheit 9/11' could boil Democrats

June 24, 2004


'Fahrenheit 9/11" is a prosecution brief.

The Michael Moore documentary, which opens tomorrow, arranges a set of facts - or almost facts - directed against George W. Bush and sets them out for the jury, the American people. But the irony might be that while Moore seeks to "convict" Bush - that is, defeat him at the polls - the unintended consequence might be to "acquit" Bush instead.

Like a veteran prosecutor's opening statement, the movie is a fast-moving blur of allegations, punctuated by emotional-string-pulling and even a little humor. The film argues that Bush was dangerously neglectful of the threat posed by Osama bin Laden and al-Qaida prior to 9/11 - and that's just in the first few minutes.

Indeed, the film's most powerful moments come early on, as we watch footage of Bush sitting in an elementary school classroom in Florida, reading a children's book - and then continuing to read for agonizing minutes after he gets word of the World Trade Center attacks. Moore-as-D.A. provides the voice-over, steering us toward the conclusion that the look on Bush's face reveals both stupidity and guilt.

Moore, who won an Oscar for his 2002 documentary "Bowling for Columbine," knows his craft. He knows that an audience can be led to conclude that a facial expression signifies one thing - when, in fact, it might connote something completely different, or nothing at all.

In addition, Moore is not above a fact-twist or two. The film seems to allege that the Bush administration allowed more than 100 Saudis, including members of bin Laden's extended family, to leave the U.S. right after 9/11. Yet it fails to note that the dubious decision to let the Saudis leave was made by former counter-terrorism czar Richard Clarke - who appears on camera, talking about other topics, as a witness for Moore's prosecution.

One's first reaction is that Bush needs a good defense lawyer, someone to rebut falsehoods and rearrange the facts. For example, while it is true that the Carlyle Group, a Washington-based investment company, has major holdings in defense firms that might be expected to benefit from an Iraq war, it is also true that one of the few weapons systems that the Bush administration has sought to kill is the Crusader artillery system, made by a Carlyle-controlled company.

But maybe Bush doesn't really need to worry about this movie. And here's why: If Bush and the Iraq war are this bad, why vote for John Kerry? After all, in 2002, Kerry voted with Bush and the Republicans - and against a majority of congressional Democrats - to support the war.

Try as he might, Moore will not get his R-rated film before the mass of American moviegoers. Instead, it will play heavily in liberal areas - places that are already likely to go strongly for Kerry. Bush voters will be few and far between.

Here's the rub: The more left-leaning the locale, the more likely that third-party candidate Ralph Nader will be a force there, too.

Indeed, as public opinion has turned against the war, support for Kerry has increased, but so has support for Nader. The latest ABC News/Washington Post poll shows Kerry besting Bush by four points. But Nader, who strongly opposed the war all along and proposes an immediate American pullout, is gaining, too. In recent months he has surged from asterisk levels to 6 percent. Almost all of those votes come out of Kerry's hide.

And as Democrats learned to their sorrow in 2000, it's possible for the Democratic candidate to win the popular vote nationwide and yet lose the Electoral College, and thus the presidency.

So if Moore's film is a hit at the box office, it's more likely to turn Kerry voters into Nader voters than it is to turn Bush voters into Kerry voters. That probably isn't Moore's intention, but the problem with zealous prosecutors is that once they get their blood up for the big confrontation, it's hard to get them to cool down, even if that would have been best for their case.

James P. Pinkerton's e-mail ad- dress is pinkerto@ix.netcom.com.

Email: pinkerto@ix.netcom.com

http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion/ny-vppin243865078jun24,0,1605024.column?coll=ny-viewpoints-headlines


Ellie

yellowwing
06-24-04, 11:14 PM
Angel, as a Democrat, I begrudgedly think you are right. With all the current problems and perceptions of President Bush, you know approval ratings and all, the public is still not flocking to Kerry.

Our chosen Democratic challenger simply does not have the chi/strength/b*lls to really go for it.

In my opinion, like Al Gore, the re-election of President Bush is his to win or lose. If he does lose the election, it will not because Kerry did what it takes to win.

Taking a step back, if Kerry does not CLEARLY demonstrate he is the one to lead us, than for the good of the Republic it is better if he should not win.

HardJedi
06-24-04, 11:28 PM
Said it before and gonna say it again. Moore is nothing but a flame fanning sensationalist, trying to make a name and money for himself by pointing fingers and laying blame for tradgedies. and he only point the fingers opposed to HIS personal politics, regardles of reality.

as anyone with two brain cells could do, ANY set of "facts" can be made to look any way you want them, if they are put together creatlivley enough.

yellowwing
06-24-04, 11:36 PM
Yes, but the current trick is how to put two brain cells together and make alot of money!

BOTH sides of the aisle are plagued with these bottom feeders!

But I have faith that what ever the outcome, the United States will continue to thrive. (We have about 200,000 Marines to guarantee that!)

snipowsky
06-25-04, 06:42 AM
Speaking about FAT BODIES:

eddief
06-26-04, 12:02 AM
There is a better movie than Moore's. It's called '911: The Road To Tyranny' by Alex Jones. You can buy a copy of it at www.infowars.com and he allows people to make copies of it to give away to others.

enviro
06-26-04, 01:23 AM
Alex Jones is no better than that fat lard Michael Moore

http://www.bad-taste-testers.5u.com/images/liberal.jpg

eddief
06-26-04, 03:19 AM
Opinions vary. I think neocons are mindless idiots myself. By the way enviro, Alex Jones is as conservative as they come. He just doesn't fall for neocon BS.

HardJedi
06-26-04, 10:40 PM
yeah well, I have to agree with Enviro. another load mouth know it all out for himself. who cares if they are liberal or conservative? Still sperm burping peices of gutter slime

eddief
06-27-04, 12:12 AM
Alex Jones is right on target with his analysis of 911. We're headed for a fascist police state. The America we grew up with is on it's last legs.

HardJedi
06-27-04, 12:52 AM
ooooooo k eddie
crack kills you know?

eddief
06-27-04, 03:39 AM
Your lame crack comment will probably do me in.

enviro
06-27-04, 04:08 AM
We're headed for a fascist police state

You think it's bad now, just wait and see what happens if another 9-11 happens.

People not involved in terrorism should have nothing to worry about.

Name one instance in which the Patriot Act has been abused? Just one - I challange you.

eddief
06-27-04, 07:01 AM
The thing about the Patriot Act is that it is very vague on the definition of what a terrorist is. How would you like a liberal democrat to have the power of the Patriot Act in his hands? It might happen this election. Conservatives and liberals alike should be asking themselves if this is the direction they want the country to take. Giving up freedom for security is what cowards do. As for some abuses, I found this when I googled "Patriot Act Abuses".

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/07/21/attack/main564189.shtml.

They were just camel jockeys so I guess that's all right. I'm sure the noble and good federal government would never turn those abuses onto it's own citizens.

HardJedi
06-27-04, 03:07 PM
AHHH THE SHY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING.

ok, enough of my childish attempts at humor. America, the one we grew up with, is alive and well. THAT America, in case SOME people WEREN'T paying attention, is an IDEAL. A DREAM. As long as there are those who believe in it, it will not die. It may change, it may grow, it may sicken, but it will not die. The United States of America? Who can say? for ALL great empires fall sooner or later. But AMERICA itself is NOT a Government, or set way of doing things, or a political group. And if there is anyone who DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THIS, then you never WERE a part of America, and who needs you anyway?

radio relay
06-27-04, 05:01 PM
Why don't you "google" taking your head out of your ignorant, leftwing, communist a$$? See what comes up? Maybe something like "lame, politically correct, rainbow pink psycho-babble has no substance" will flash onto your screen, and shake a few brain cells that can still think for themselves, without having to have CBS News tell them how to think.

If the country is going down the road to fascisim, it is being taken there by the "useful idiot" clowns of the left (as it *always* has been), who want nothing more than to install their gay/feminazi/enviropuke thought police in every house and office, and up everybody's butt.

While you're at it, why don't you "google" "islamic, hatefilled propaganda"?

HardJedi
06-27-04, 05:05 PM
Radio!

eddief
06-27-04, 06:09 PM
When the jackboots come don't say I didn't warn you. The New World Order will come and when it does there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

eddief
06-27-04, 06:12 PM
radio relay
I am not a member of the Communist Party. I enjoy living in our capitalist system. Google "kiss my **" you ignorant little neocon tool.

HardJedi
06-27-04, 06:17 PM
LOL. the jackboots? and you really think people will just hold still for this do you? Come on Eddie. Would YOU hold still for it? Your Lack of faith in the AMERICAN spirit amazes me. and horrifies me.


ang, gentleman. can we keep this on a level that does NOT include personal attacks?

eddief
06-27-04, 06:21 PM
World government is coming and I'm just trying to let people know about it. My faith is in God and my family and not in a corrupt and evil government that our government has become. Amd about the personal attacks Hard Jedi, I aint the one who started it. I don't just lay down and take it when someone calls me a communist or disses me in other ways. Don't worry, I can take anything you guys dish out. I used to take on neocons on the Hannity Forum and I held my own just fine so don't put the gloves on. I like to go at it bare knuckles.

HardJedi
06-27-04, 06:22 PM
Did I say I thought poorly of You Eddie? No. I do NOT think poorly of you. I think you have some pretty strange ideas, that I disagree with, but I in NO WAY ever said ONE bad word about YOU.

Simmer down there Devil Dog;)

eddief
06-27-04, 06:29 PM
Hard Jedi
Radio Relay p i s s e d me off with his communist bs. Them is fighting words to me. But I guess it comes with the territory when you dissent.

radio relay
06-27-04, 07:04 PM
Tiny tot... eddief..

Google "usefull idiot" or "communist simpleton"! It comes up... "eddief"

... freakin' amazing man!!

Pi$$es you off to be called a communist?!?!? Listen to the sludge you're running here... ! Ain't no different than the crap that came from Pravda, or presently runs on Al Jazeera.

Why do you hate your country, fool?

HardJedi
06-27-04, 07:08 PM
RADIO! come on, can we please keep this SEMI-civil? I PERSONALLY tend to agrre with what you say Radio. But name calling of this magnatude is uncalled for. Anyway. Look at eddies profile. He is a conspiracy theory nut. What would anyopne expect?

( and saying nut is not saying crazy. it's like enthusiast, I just didn't feel like taking the time so type "enthusiast" )

radio relay
06-27-04, 07:16 PM
Personal attacks?

Occasionally, sadly, a slap upside the head is required to get the appropriate attention...

IMHO mild personal attacks are ok... Getting your head sawed off, because you're not a muslim, is impolite, and an insult.

BTW, this is a forum of essentially anonymous thoughts. Therefore...

*All* should be taken with a big grain of salt.

HardJedi
06-27-04, 07:20 PM
LOL, true. Like I said, I AGREE with what you say. just think it could be done in a nicer way( don't wanna unhinge the mentally unstable, after all) :D

I am sorry lord, I tried to be nice! Really, but it's just not in me! LOL!

Hell, I believe MOST people should be slapped in the head two or three times a day!

radio relay
06-27-04, 07:56 PM
OK, Jedi...

I'll be nice.....

But, at times, it's so damned difficult... sigh
;)

eddief
06-27-04, 09:09 PM
radio relay
Your so-called slap upside the head aint squat. You hit like a little bi t c h. I don't want you to be nice. By all means leave the gloves off. I think it's fun to go mano a mano with Bush apologists. So if I'm a commie then you're a fascist chump.

eddief
06-27-04, 09:13 PM
HardJedi
I may very well be crazy- like a fox though.

HardJedi
06-27-04, 09:36 PM
LORD MAN! THIS IS NOT THE PLACE FOR FIGHTING! haven't you figured that OUT yet Eddie? discussing Ideas? Yes. Differing Viewpoints? Sure.

anyony wants to name call and be childish( when not in good humor and fun) then do it somewhere ELSE. Exchange e-mail addresses, or do it through PM'S, but for GOD's sake . Act like you have some respect for others, and are not so egotistical to think that YOU are the ONLY enlightend member of the human race.

eddief
06-27-04, 09:45 PM
HardJedi
I didn't start it. Someone wants to call me a name I'll shoot right back. I'm not a pacifist and I don't turn the other cheek. Jesus does but I don't. I do respect others when they treat me with respect. As for being egotistical, I don't see it. I'm just passionate about my beliefs.

HardJedi
06-27-04, 09:50 PM
I got onto him as well, in case you didn't notice. I am NOT singling you out. he SAID he would be nice. and calling him a punk in a post directed at ME is direspectfull, and I CHOOSE to take offense at that, for several reasons. I won't go into those here.

and who brought up jesus? what does a 2000 year old dead Jewish carpenter have to do with anything at all?

eddief
06-27-04, 09:58 PM
Sorry I offended you. I'll try to play nicer in the future. As for bringing up Jesus, I was pointing out that I don't live by turning the other cheek although I should since I'm a Christian. It's just so damn hard. I am a proud man and very weak when it comes to that.

HardJedi
06-27-04, 10:02 PM
point taken. and thanks. Look, I am a VERY passionate guy myself. and I personally don't give a rats patootie WHO gets hurt by what I do or say. far as I am concerned, all SHOULD be fair. but there are rules to this message board, and, though Iam NOT a moderator, I don't like to see alot of name calling and such. there really is no place for it here. Believe me, IHave gotten into it with a few Marines on here, but always (almost) through PM'S if the exchange got me really steamed. that'smy advice forthe future. take it there.

Same with You Radio :D

greybeard
06-27-04, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by eddief
When the jackboots come don't say I didn't warn you. The New World Order will come and when it does there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Dang-for how many decades now have I heard the doomsdayers spout that same tired rhetoric? Joe McCarthy-The Beatniks-the Hippies-Black Panthers-Ku Klux Klan-The Moonies-John Birchers-the New Agers. Jim Jones. Same words-different names. Chicken Littleism is alive and well--still tellin us the sky is fallin. What a hoot.
Look before you leap-paranoia runs deep.

HardJedi
06-27-04, 10:58 PM
couldn't have put it better myself, Greybeard.

enviro
06-28-04, 12:48 AM
People like you eddief really do scare me - Conspiracy Theorists

I can't believe you actually believe the words coming out of your mouth. Seriously, you think that our current President is trying to install a new World Government with shock troops and all? And then you think having a liberal in office will keep this from happening?

I seriously think you were exposed to something you shouldn't have been.

Gulf War veterans, including those who served in Operations Desert Shield, Desert Storm, and Iraqi Freedom, who need assistance in locating their nearest VA Medical Center or who have general health questions regarding Gulf service may call toll-free...

VA Gulf War Veterans Information Helpline: 1-800-PGW-VETS

They will get you the help you need. They may not be able to regenerate brain cells but they can give you some medications that will help you stop hullicinating and thinking big brother is following you.

HardJedi
06-28-04, 12:51 AM
LOL that might not have been meant to be funny Enviro, but this late at night, it made ME laugh

snipowsky
06-28-04, 05:18 AM
lmao@ Sgt. Enviro! THE MARINES ARE INVADING AMERICA! OH NO! lol Let me make one thing clear. Marine or not, you try and take my guns away from me or infringe on my 2nd Amendment rights. You will be getting my firearms alright, but bullets first! Someone needs to take a chill pill and get a dose of reality!

eddief
06-28-04, 06:07 AM
enviro
I've never said that electing a liberal would solve anything. I don't trust the Democrats either. Kerry belongs to the same secret society as Bush. They're even distant cousins. Thanks for the info about help for Gulf War vets. By the grace of God I came out with my health still intact. I'll pass along that info to others.

eddief
06-28-04, 06:11 AM
snipowsky
Do you know who Tommy Franks is? In an interview last year he said that if another serious terrorist attack happened here in the US that he thought the Constitution wouldn't survive it. He said that martial law would be implemented. That's one reality that could very well be our future.

gwladgarwr
06-28-04, 08:26 AM
Originally posted by eddief
The thing about the Patriot Act is that it is very vague on the definition of what a terrorist is. How would you like a liberal democrat to have the power of the Patriot Act in his hands? It might happen this election. Conservatives and liberals alike should be asking themselves if this is the direction they want the country to take. Giving up freedom for security is what cowards do. As for some abuses, I found this when I googled "Patriot Act Abuses".

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/07/21/attack/main564189.shtml.

They were just camel jockeys so I guess that's all right. I'm sure the noble and good federal government would never turn those abuses onto its own citizens.

It concerns me that you say they were "just camel jockeys", thereby justifying the denial of real consideration for Iraqi prisoners. I have no great love for those insurgents, either, I'm very wary of thinking the same way as those insurgents think of us. However, what with the recent kidnapping of one of our own, I'm pretty certain that he's not coming home alive and won't enjoy the same level of treatment that we would accord an Iraqi insurgent.

So, it's time to stop playing footsies and let the dogs loose. If they only understand the language of violence, then the message of utter chaos and destruction should be sent to them. Preferably by FedEx.

Regardless of the party in power come the November election, I fear for my Constitution with the Patriot Act in place, regardless of terrorist threats that may be lurking. If every time a boogey man or a very real threat appears and we look to the powers that be to abridge the very freedoms and liberty we and those before us have fought and died to defend and those that these "terrorists" are hell-bent on trying to destroy, the enemy will have won, and we can just start wearing robes and veils and live under sharia.

So true: give up your freedom (and mine?!) for a measure of security, and you deserve neither. Sometimes I wonder who the enemy really is - the "terrorists" running around, or those holding political power who daily chip away at every Article and Amendment.

-gwladgarwr

radio relay
06-28-04, 08:55 AM
Sho thang, eddief...

Yo sho nuff be one crazy, bad Mo Fo... hmm hmm

I called in yo perscripshun, boy.

Now git yo *** down to the Rexal and pick up yo meds, fool!

jryanjack
06-28-04, 11:44 AM
I hear alot about how the Patriot Act takes away too many of our rights. And while I do have faith that the Government will not use the Patriot Act against innocent people, I do see how the Patriot Act could be used against innocents.

So, if the Patriot Act isn't the solution, then what is? I don't see any other proposals - only more and more talk about how bad the Patriot Act is. Anybody can point out problems, how about pointing out some solutions?

Sgted
06-28-04, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by jryanjack
I hear alot about how the Patriot Act takes away too many of our rights. And while I do have faith that the Government will not use the Patriot Act against innocent people, I do see how the Patriot Act could be used against innocents.

So, if the Patriot Act isn't the solution, then what is? I don't see any other proposals - only more and more talk about how bad the Patriot Act is. Anybody can point out problems, how about pointing out some solutions?



Good Point.
Excellent Question.

We live in a radically different world these days as compared to when the Constitution was penned.
There are people right in our midst that want to do us harm.
Our borders are like swiss cheese. Our ports are very vulnerable. The digital age has made identity theft easy. One can be in London in the AM and in New York in the PM. The vastness of nationalities and cultures that make up the American landscape makes the task of fingering those who will do us harm a much, much more difficult task. And, the face of the enemy just might not be Middle Eastern ( ie; The Oklahoma City Bombing).
Just how alert are we to the danger ??. I'm talking you & I, not the government.
In the canyons of New York City (or any big city) are you suspicious (or alert) enough to know if that person right next to you is carrying a dirty bomb in that briefcase ?.
Are all those Middle Eastern types at the resovoir swimming or poisoning ?.
I know it sounds as if I'm paranoid.
I'm honestly not.
And, like the rest of you, I'm going to hold onto my Constitutional rights with an iron fist.
So, if the Patriot Act is not the solution then what is ???.
One thing is for damn sure.
America was (and is) drastically changed on 9/11.
It will never be the same.
These people are out to get us.
They are patient and (I believe) just waiting for our guard to be down.
There is a very large Muslim / Islamic population right within the borders of the USA. And the faces of these folks are not all Middle Eastern.
If just 1 % of these people side with the radical / fundementalist / extremist form of their beliefs where does that leave us ?.
While we pray for good health, long life, world peace, good kids, the winning lottery ticket and material things (some of) these people are praying to Allah to give them the strength to rid the world of us infidels.

gwladgarwr
06-29-04, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by jryanjack
I hear alot about how the Patriot Act takes away too many of our rights. And while I do have faith that the Government will not use the Patriot Act against innocent people, I do see how the Patriot Act could be used against innocents.

So, if the Patriot Act isn't the solution, then what is? I don't see any other proposals - only more and more talk about how bad the Patriot Act is. Anybody can point out problems, how about pointing out some solutions?

You're right - there is the very real possibility of the Patriot Act being used against the innocent. This Act may or may not be the solution.

So, what's the solution? Well, I don't think creating more and more laws is the solution, but enforcing the current laws (like, the Constitution as we now have it?) isn't such a bad idea. If you are an American, whether at home or abroad, and conspire to raise arms against the United States government, it's called sedition. The Constitution already address that. If you commit an act that endangers the United States by breaching its security (passing state secrets), it's called treason and is also addressed in the Constitution. Laws can be passed to outline what punishments are to be passed down when these crimes are proven, but the Patriot Act also goes too far; the Supreme Court has weighed in on the side of the Constitution twice on June 28, 2004, and is right to do so. Short of martial law, no abridgment of equal protection and due process shall be denied, regardless of how urgent the current state of affairs are.

enviro
06-29-04, 04:07 PM
The problem is that everyone relates the Patriot Act to the FBI being able to look at your library record or put a tap on your phone.

Conspiracy Theorists have massed together and cried foul. A phone tap could be placed on your phone THEN and NOW with a warrant. Nothing changed.

The Patriot Act facilitated information sharing and cooperation among government agencies so that they can better “connect the dots.” The Act removed the major legal barriers that prevented the law enforcement, intelligence, and national defense communities from talking and coordinating their work to protect the American people and our national security. The government’s prevention efforts should not be restricted by boxes on an organizational chart. Now police officers, FBI agents, federal prosecutors and intelligence officials can protect our communities by “connecting the dots” to uncover terrorist plots before they are completed. As Sen. John Edwards (D-N.C.) said about the Patriot Act, “we simply cannot prevail in the battle against terrorism if the right hand of our government has no idea what the left hand is doing.” (Press release, 10/26/01)

The Patriot Act allows investigators to use the tools that were already available to investigate organized crime and drug trafficking. Many of the tools the Act provides to law enforcement to fight terrorism have been used for decades to fight organized crime and drug dealers, and have been reviewed and approved by the courts. As Sen. Joe Biden (D-DE) explained during the floor debate about the Act, “the FBI could get a wiretap to investigate the mafia, but they could not get one to investigate terrorists. To put it bluntly, that was crazy! What’s good for the mob should be good for terrorists.” (Cong. Rec., 10/25/01)

The Patriot Act updated the law to reflect new technologies and new threats. The Act brought the law up to date with current technology, so we no longer have to fight a digital-age battle with antique weapons—legal authorities leftover from the era of rotary telephones. When investigating the murder of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl, for example, law enforcement used one of the Act’s new authorities to use high-tech means to identify and locate some of the killers.

The Patriot Act increased the penalties for those who commit terrorist crimes. Americans are threatened as much by the terrorist who pays for a bomb as by the one who pushes the button. That’s why the Patriot Act imposed tough new penalties on those who commit and support terrorist operations, both at home and abroad.


Now - which part of that do you disagree with exactly?

It ain't about you checking out an adult romance novel at the library or you surfing porn on the internet.

yellowwing
06-29-04, 06:07 PM
I said it once a long time ago, I'd agree to extending temporary incarceration to 96 hours. I have faith that any Law Enforcement professional could tell in four days if you were really a threat or not.

Wasn't there a story about an Muslim doctor (or some professional) that was briefly held. He was very gracious and understanding afterward.

Sgted
06-29-04, 06:13 PM
Yellowwing...

It was a lawyer who was detained in connection with the Madrid train bombings.
I do not know what came together to implicate him (other then his nationality) but he did understand the reason he was detained and walked away from this graciously.

yellowwing
06-29-04, 06:34 PM
Oh, that was the fingerprint mixup. I was thinking there was something about year before this.

GunnyL
06-29-04, 07:08 PM
It was a fingerprint mixup and he didn't walk away from it graciously, he's suing the FBI.

Sgted
06-29-04, 07:45 PM
Didn't know about suing the FBI.
Not so gracious.

Sparrowhawk
06-29-04, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by yellowwing
I said it once a long time ago, I'd agree to extending temporary incarceration to 96 hours. I have faith that any Law Enforcement professional could tell in four days if you were really a threat or not.

Wasn't there a story about an Muslim doctor (or some professional) that was briefly held. He was very gracious and understanding afterward.

is a muslim and on top of all that a LAWYER.

We know he's guilty for something.

HardJedi
06-29-04, 08:07 PM
LOl Sparrowhawk.. too true. with that combo, he MUST be guilty of at LEAST one crime agaisnt humanity :D

tracrat
06-29-04, 09:25 PM
ummm....is anyone else out there currently with law enforcement?? if so, you will understand what I am talking about... I serve with the Jacksoville Sheriff's Office, Duval County, Jacksonville, Florida, as a deputy sheriff, and so far in almost 2 years I have not had to deal with the Patirot Act... We do not regularly scoop up people just to interogate them because they "may be" a link to a terrorists group..your civil liberties are still safe and sound...and I am not one to violate them, nor any of my comrades....As Florida is a prime target for the enemies of freedom, we do get our info on various terrorists groups or individuals who are known to be affiliated with known terrorists orginisations, but as of 6-29-04, I have not dealt with The Act...Those who say we are moving to a fascist or communist state are not wholly in touch with reality.....what freedom has been given up..what has personally affected, you I ask?? If something has affected you personally, I would like to know so I can research it to better broaden my knowledge and understanding so I can better serve those who have trusted me with their security......

yellowwing
06-29-04, 10:56 PM
http://www.ywg-web.com/images/stoned.jpg
"Yeah, like okay. FLA deputies are sooo uncool. In like, Tallahassee or somewhere, we were like pulled over and TOTALLY harrassed. Officer Krispy Kreme was so not with it! I remember because that was the day I figured out Kraft Dinner was not that complicated, you know!"

:banana:

Sgted
06-29-04, 10:58 PM
For Shure !!!

tracrat
07-05-04, 07:11 PM
Great, donut jokes. Well, I like donuts....what can I say.......

TracGunny
07-05-04, 09:02 PM
tracrat: hey bro, the ignorant always call foul... er... fowl... er ... full... um ... fool....

The U.S. Patriot Act gives the Feds the same tools the Locals have had, and have kept thru Court challenges, for years to deal with those who would destroy us and kill us for our beliefs.

By the way, tracrat, I'm still waiting for Castleforte... you done setting up yet? I have installed CMAK_v101_Patch....

yellowwing
07-05-04, 09:05 PM
Tracrat, that was a total joke. I know that you and yours will do your job to keep us all safe.

I remember one time out the back gate at MCLB ALbany. We were impatient and ran around the railroad barriers when they first came down. A Sherrif's Deputy scooted right behind us and pulled us over right away.

For ten minutes the Deputy remeniced with us about the Marine Corps. He had been a PMO Sgt in Pendelton. 10 minutes later the train finally passed and the Deputy said, "Now that wasn't too long was it! Ya'll be a bit more patient next time!"

TracGunny
07-05-04, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by tracrat
Great, donut jokes. Well, I like donuts....what can I say....... cream-filled or glazed..... yum......

eddief
07-05-04, 10:58 PM
Short and precise analysisis of the Patriot Act for anyone interested in reading it.

http://www.infowars.com/HR_3162.html

enviro
07-06-04, 10:22 AM
http://metafella.topcities.com/election/ep6/crybaby.jpg

eddief
07-06-04, 10:25 AM
What has that got to do with anything on this thread, enviro? There are also many (real) conservatives who are against the Patriot Act. And posting a picture of your ugly little rugrat is just plain mean.

enviro
07-06-04, 10:28 AM
It obviously struck a nerve........


The truth must hurt.......

eddief
07-06-04, 10:32 AM
Whatever you say. I just don't understand what your picture has to do with arguing against the Patriot Act. There are plenty of conservative groups who are also against this fascist attack on the Constitution.

enviro
07-06-04, 10:43 AM
And there are plenty of people who are willing to give up my right to live in a country where terrorists aren't allowed to roam free and blow crap up. You are one of them.

Fascist attack on the Constitution? Why are we even here discussing it then? Aren't you afraid that the Gestapo will coming knock down your door and give you a wedgie? You might want to keep quite from now on Eddie - BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU!!!

http://www.kyna.net/Images/Pictures/Big%20Brother.jpg

eddief
07-06-04, 10:50 AM
We're headed towards having a Gestapo. That's what the Department of Homeland Security will become. As for the terrorists, do you mean CIAl-Qaida? Bin Laden and Saddam were both CIA assets. I also don't think the Dems will come and ride to the rescue either. They are full of New World Order scumbags as well. Kerry is a Skull and Bones brother of Bush and a distant cousin. John Edwards was at the latest Bilderberg meetings. They are part of the same geopolitical crime family as the Bushes.

yellowwing
07-06-04, 10:59 AM
The CIA is in a slow and painful transition from Cold War mentality. Hell, the CIA predecessors groomed Ho Chi Minh to fight the Imperialist Japanese. Look how that turned out.

They also armed and equiped Afghanees to kill Soviet occupation forces. Look at that mess we are trying to clean up.

Now we have a situation where it looks like Iranian Counter Intelligence has been running our best asset all along.

enviro
07-06-04, 11:03 AM
Do you have your own newsletter to keep record of this stuff you dream up or do you forget most of it as the medication wears off?

eddief
07-06-04, 11:06 AM
It's not dreamed up. There are plenty of patriots giving out the truth that the corporate media won't tell you. The truth is hard to take. No one wants to believe that their government would kill their own citizens for geopolitical gain. They wanted to do it in the '60s as well. Thank God that Kennedy said no to Operation Northwoods. I would recommend the American Free Press (and no it's not some pinko rag). They are ultra-conservative and anti-NWO.

BigBrother
07-06-04, 11:13 AM
What are their names and addresses, Eddie F? What is your real name and address, Eddie F?

I promise we won't hurt you.

HardJedi
07-06-04, 11:15 AM
LOL
that's too funny enviro

eddief
07-06-04, 11:16 AM
Too bad the joke is on all of us. But I have no doubt that I'm on some government list for when martial law comes after the next big terrorist attack.

yellowwing
07-06-04, 11:19 AM
...mmmmmmm...Percodan rulez

eddief
07-06-04, 11:27 AM
So none of you believe a New World Order is coming. If any of you are Christian then you should know that the Bible predicts a global government under the Anti-Christ (yes, I'm also a Jesus Freak). The Bible also says the world's earthly kingdoms belong to Satan. That includes the good old United States of America.

enviro
07-06-04, 11:32 AM
And so now President Bush is the Anti-Christ -

OK.........I got it............

eddief
07-06-04, 11:38 AM
I didn't say Bush is the Anti-Christ. He is however helping to move us towards the Anti-Christ system all in the name of fighting terrorism. Kerry is part of the same system so I don't expect anything to change if Kerry wins. We're screwed either way.

enviro
07-06-04, 11:57 AM
I think you seriously have forgotten the resolve of the American people. You not only have slammed our current President but any possible future Presidents.

What do you have to live for? Especially in this country. What did you even serve for? Was it for the college money or just something to do?

And if those questions p|ss you off, don't answer them - but at least answer this one:

What is your plan for salvation? How do we save ourselves from our own ignorance and become more right-minded like yourself?

jryanjack
07-06-04, 12:01 PM
What version of the Bible do you read eddie? I don't recall reading anything in the Bible that calls for new world order or that states that all of the earthly kingdoms are the dominion of Satan!

eddief
07-06-04, 12:07 PM
Have you read Revelation? It definitely reveals that Satan will have power over the entire world thru his Anti-Christ and False Prophet thru the Mark of the Beast. When Jesus was tempted in the desert by Satan He was offered the kingdoms of the world by Satan. Satan couldn't offer Jesus what he didn't have.

yellowwing
07-06-04, 12:14 PM
"...and the Comandant of The Marine Corps looked upon all the jeweled cities of World and said, " "bah-me and the lads can take any of these cities any time we want. Yah gotta do do better than that ole 'Scratch!"

jryanjack
07-06-04, 12:24 PM
Couple of points: Having power over the entire world is different than ruling the entire world. It depends on your definition of power - power can also refer to influence - i.e. the forum moderators have power over us normal members, but that does not mean they are they the new world order, or are they???

Also, why can't Satan offer something that he does not have? Satan can't lie or deceive?

eddief
07-06-04, 12:28 PM
enviro
I'm living for Christ my Lord. I have faith in God and not in this worldly government full of crooked scoundrels. I served in the Marine Corps because I wanted to serve my country. I was blissfully ignorant of the New World Order and geopolitics then. There is no going back to that mindset for me. I'm not trying to say I have all the answers. I am a sinner and fall short of the Glory of God constantly. I am just speaking against the evil that I see in this world. I want others to look hard at what is going on and make up their own minds. If your conclusion is that I'm crazy then so be it. I feel that eventually world government will come. I however believe in fighting it and delaying it as long as possible. That's why I talk about it. The more people who speak out against it the more the globalists have to take notice and maybe have to slow down their march towards their goal. Of course, maybe I'm just crazy.

eddief
07-06-04, 12:47 PM
jryanjack <br />
Of couse Satan can decieve and lie. But Jesus' response to his offer of the kingdoms of the earth if only He would bow down to him tells me Satan wasn't lying. Jesus tells him that it is...

enviro
07-06-04, 01:45 PM
You wind up speaking against the evil so much that you give absolutely no credit for and good that is done.

You admit being a sinner and falling short constantly yet you expect so much more out of other mortal men.

Your word in your last post sound just like a Republican. Are you schitzo or something?

eddief
07-06-04, 05:10 PM
I'm a libertarian. Libertarians have many conservative values. We wish our conservative Republican brothers would get their s*** together. As for expecting a lot out of others, I don't think expecting our leaders to be true to the republic instead of being damn globalist scum is too damn much to ask.

HardJedi
07-06-04, 05:14 PM
LORD deliver us from stupidity. and no, this is NOT directed at ANYONE. just a wish of mine.

yellowwing
07-06-04, 06:09 PM
Well if you really think about it, a one world government would solve many problems.

As far as the 'mark of the beast' they would have to set it up where the populous would be begging for it. Right now who in their right mind would sign up for such a thing. But if the right conditions were set, they could have us lined up as sheep.

Implanted National ID chips. How would they institute such an abonimation.

eddief
07-06-04, 06:20 PM
yellowwing
They're selling the chip to the young people. Recently a nightclub in Spain started chipping their VIP members. They will also sell it as a way to control crime because people won't be carrying cash. Digital Angel is one of the major companies making the chips. The company is run by a former spook. Alex Jones interviewed the owner of the Spanish nightclub. He turned out to be a former spook as well.

HardJedi
07-06-04, 06:33 PM
there will never voluntarily be any kind of WORLD government accepted by the American people. To think otherwise is foolish. HEll, even the Catholic CHURCH, THE POPE, no less, says now that the book of revelations is NOT to be taken literally.

oh, and no offense? but alex jones is an idiot! LOL :banana:

eddief
07-06-04, 06:49 PM
People (including Americans) will eventually accept world government because of the chaos that will be unleashed by the globalists. It's a problem-reaction-solution deal. The globalists cause the problems in the first place and they offer us the solutions. As for Hardjedi's comments about Alex Jones, I guess he can't be too much of an idiot since he predicted the WTC would be hit by the globalists on his radio show back in July of 2001. he can't be too much of an idiot since mainstream radio wanted to mold him into the next Rush Limbaugh. I don't think you would want an idiot to be the next big thing in conservative talk radio. He turned that fortune and fame oppurtunity down because he didn't want to be a shill for any political party. Bottom line is the guy knows his s*** and backs it up with damn good research. Oh, and I'm not Catholic so I don't give a damn what the guy with the funny pointed hat says.

HardJedi
07-06-04, 07:11 PM
Ahh and Nostradomas predicted the destruction of the world trade center as well. So? and THAT was back in what? the 1600's? and as far as the whole conservative/ liberal./ libritarian, whatever label goes, labels of any kind are for sheep and people too scared to stand on their own. At least, that's what I think.

I tend to agree more with the "consevatives" than anything else, but I am bo no means one of "them" And persoanly, I don't want ANYONE to be"the next big thing" in ANY kind of radio. they are mostly all fools and fakers. No better than Howard Stern or Marton Downey Jr. Doomsellers spreading fear for profit.

The point about the whole Catholic comment goes like this. Doesn't matter if you are Catholic or not. to take ANYTHING the bible say's LITERALLY is foolish. it is a work put together over many centuries by several authors, most of whom never met or spoke with EACH OTHER, much less Jesus. It is a book who has had things removed from it by and added to it by many European Monarchs throught the ages. hell, If it wasn't for Constantine converting, there would BE no christianity.

snipowsky
07-06-04, 07:30 PM
I want whatever yellowwing and eddie are smoking.

It must be some good ****!

Satan doesn't lie? A one world government would solve many problems?

And about the comment about the "Mark Of The Beast"?

I'D NEVER DENOUNCE JESUS CHRIST! I'D RATHER BE DEAD!

I dare anyone to force me to put a "chip" in my body.

They'd be getting some lead in their ass!

eddief
07-06-04, 07:37 PM
What can I say? I'm a Christian. That's the heart and soul of who I am. I believe the Bible is the Word of God. As for political labels, saying I'm a libertarian is not the end all be all for me. I'm not a member of the Libertarian Party. I just identify with a lot of what they have to say about the constitutional republic. And if Alex Jones just cared about money why does he allow people to make copies of his videos? It must be that the message is more important than the mighty dollar. He could be making a hell of a lot more money shilling for the neocons like Limaugh and Hannity do. As for the Nostradamus WTC prediction, that is an urban legend (check snopes).

eddief
07-06-04, 07:46 PM
snipowsky
I didn't say Satan doesn't lie, but he does have dominion over the earthly kingdoms of the world. As for the chip, many people will take it because they don't believe in a mark of the beast. Hell, some Christians don't believe there is a mark of the beast.

HardJedi
07-06-04, 07:59 PM
and who is Snopes? and what makes Him such an authority? Got a phd in history and paranormal studies does he? from what university? the writings of Nostradamous DO exist, and they have existed for centuries. as far as what they REALLY mean? no one knows for sure. my only point is this. I have predicted for YEARS, that America will suffer, at some point, both a full scale invasion, and another civil war. Now, if these things happen, does that make me a genius? Does that make me right about the rest of my beliefs? Hell no.

RESEARCH , as anyone who has ever been to college SHOULD KNOW is ALWAYS slanted towards the person who is doing it's personal beliefs. Here is the POINT of research. You form a theory( thesis) and then you go out and look for "facts" to support YOUR theory, and discard the rest, to make you look RIGHT!. can ANYONE dissagree with this last statment? if so,, either you never attended college, or else you weren't paying attention. this is TAUGHT in English 102 at every major univeristy and small time college in America.


And lastly. There is no boogie man in your closet, and no monster under the bed.:banana:

ok, this is lastly. beware of the man who speaks of altruism. He's usually the one sneaking up behind you with a long knife.

Sgted
07-06-04, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by HardJedi
Ahh and Nostradomas predicted the destruction of the world trade center as well. So? and THAT was back in what? the 1600's? and as far as the whole conservative/ liberal./ libritarian, whatever label goes, labels of any kind are for sheep and people too scared to stand on their own. At least, that's what I think.

I tend to agree more with the "consevatives" than anything else, but I am bo no means one of "them" And persoanly, I don't want ANYONE to be"the next big thing" in ANY kind of radio. they are mostly all fools and fakers. No better than Howard Stern or Marton Downey Jr. Doomsellers spreading fear for profit.

The point about the whole Catholic comment goes like this. Doesn't matter if you are Catholic or not. to take ANYTHING the bible say's LITERALLY is foolish. it is a work put together over many centuries by several authors, most of whom never met or spoke with EACH OTHER, much less Jesus. It is a book who has had things removed from it by and added to it by many European Monarchs throught the ages. hell, If it wasn't for Constantine converting, there would BE no christianity.

Hardjedi.....

As to paragraph 1.......Exactly. !!!

No matter which way you lean, politicians read speeches written by highly paid writers, learn which words, precisely arranged will invoke confidence in the "sheep".
Lip service from bloated egos.

As to paragraph 2.......Exactly. !!!

Mis informed people who lack the facts need these icons to think for them.
Arrogance for a big, BIG paycheck.
Ratings.

As to paragraph 3.......Exactly. !!!

Jesus.....yes !!!
Corruption of the "word" by man.....no !!!
Altered by self serving mortals.

yellowwing
07-06-04, 10:09 PM
And lastly. There is no boogie man in your closet, and no monster under the bed.

- Right! And there is no enemy beyond the wire! ;)

Okay, I personally have about 6 cards in my wallet. A single chip properly configured could do away with all of them! Plus they would know I am an upstanding citizen and would not fly airplanes into any tall buildings.

HardJedi
07-06-04, 11:22 PM
huh? whatchoo talkin bout Yellowing?

DebSantos
07-06-04, 11:41 PM
Fact : Michael Moore/John Kerry; both waisted sperm



Thought : same D N A ?



Fact: Mothers should of swallowed em!

HardJedi
07-07-04, 12:00 AM
OOOH! never expected something like that from YOU Deb LOL

tracrat
07-09-04, 12:24 PM
TracGunny, still looking at the defense...plus as you know I was out of town in Orlando attempting to kill a few brain cells..mission accomplished.....will try to get Castleforte to ya today....

tracrat
07-09-04, 12:44 PM
A new world order, man, I hope not..as a donut eater (cop in the vernacular), I would never be off duty..that would suck...I like my days off too much for the crizap...

Yellowwing...i definitley took no offense to the donut joke..i harrass my squadmates with the same stuff..screw them if they don't like donuts...

WillManning
07-09-04, 03:51 PM
and other put downs by Michael Moore.

http://www.scaryjohnkerry.com/moore.htm

Just who is Michael Moore selling his vision to?
The idiots?

Dan_Mills
07-09-04, 04:51 PM
Come on you guys, everyone here has some opinion about anything and everything, but lets remember the whole "brotherhood thing" ok? The way you guys are flaming each other, I think it is time for you both to go use all that heat and fire for good use, Both of you... off to the shi**ers! We got some drums that need burning.

HardJedi
07-10-04, 02:51 AM
who? ME? LOL :D