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enviro
05-26-04, 11:31 AM
Now here's some crap. With the "abuse" and "humiliation" at Abu Gahrib storming the world, here's some back page news that I'm sure no one in congress will give a flying rat's a$$ about. Notice the paragraph I put in bold letters.


With siege lifted, Fallujah transforms into Islamic city-state

By Hamza Hendawi
Associated Press

FALLUJAH, Iraq — With Marines gone and central government authority virtually nonexistent, Fallujah resembles an Islamic mini-state — anyone caught selling alcohol is flogged and paraded in the city. Men are encouraged to grow beards and barbers are warned against giving “Western” hair cuts.

“After all the blood that was shed, and the lives that were lost, we shall only accept God’s law in Fallujah,” said cleric Abdul-Qader al-Aloussi, offering a glimpse of what a future Iraq may look like as the U.S.-led occupation draws to a close. “We must capitalize on our victory over the Americans and implement Islamic sharia laws.”

The departure of the Marines under an agreement that ended the three-week siege last month has enabled hard-line Islamic leaders to assert their power in this once-restive city 30 miles west of Baghdad.

Some were active in defending the city against the Marines and have profited by a perception — both here and elsewhere in Iraq — that the mujahedeen, or Islamic holy warriors, defeated a superpower.

Under the agreement, the Marines handed security in the city to a new Fallujah Brigade made up largely of local residents and commanded by officers of Saddam Hussein’s former army.

With the departure of the Marines, the position of the U.S.-appointed civil administration has been weakened in favor of the clerics and the mujahedeen who resisted the U.S. occupation. That is a pattern that could be repeated elsewhere in Iraq after the occupation ends June 30, unless other legitimate leaders come forward to replace those tainted by association with the occupation.

Fallujah, which calls itself the “City of Mosques,” provides the religious fundamentalists with fertile ground for wielding power. The city’s estimated 300,000 residents are known for their religious piety.

Women rarely appear in public and when they do, they are covered from head to toe in accordance with Islam’s strict dress code for women. The lives of men revolve around Islam’s tradition of praying five times a day.

Unlike other Iraqi cities, Fallujah has never allowed liquor stores. Its famous kebab restaurants have prayer rooms, an unusual feature in most Muslim nations. Many of its adult male population wear beards, a hallmark of religious piety.

However, steps taken by the mujahedeen over the past month have gone beyond simply encouraging piety.

On Sunday, for example, scores of masked mujahedeen, shouting “Allahu Akbar,” or “God is Great,” paraded four men stripped down to their underpants atop the back of a pickup truck that drove through the city. Their bare backs were bleeding from 80 lashes they had received as punishment for selling alcohol. They were taken to a hospital where they were treated and released.

Residents said a man found intoxicated last week was flogged, held overnight and released the next day.

Fallujah’s women hair stylists shut down their shops several months ago after repeated attacks blamed on Muslim militants.

On Tuesday, the mujahedeen expanded their “clean up” campaign. About 80 masked, armed men, accompanied by local police, forced hundreds of street hawkers at gun point to clear out from the streets and confine their businesses to designated areas.

The masked men later moved to the city’s used car market and “persuaded” dealers to move away from the city center because they were blocking traffic. In both cases, the police stood by without intervening.

According to residents, barbers have been instructed not to give “Western” haircuts — short on the back and sides and full on top — or to remove facial hair. Four youths with long hair were stopped at a market by mujahedeen on Sunday and marched to a public market where they were shorn.

“Are we Muslims, or not?” asked Abdul-Rahman Mahmoud, a 40-year-old father of three. “We are. So, we must apply God’s laws. The mujahedeen’s word is heard and respected, and the same goes for our clerics.”

There is little sign of opposition to the mujahedeen, though it could be that some people are simply afraid of confronting armed men.

Sheik Omar Said of the Fallujah branch of the Association of Muslim Scholars, a Baghdad-based organization created last year to defend the rights of the Sunni Arab minority, insists that nearly everyone in Fallujah really wants Islamic law.

However, he hinted that perhaps in some cases, the mujahedeen have gone too far.

“This will only come after educating society in religious matters first and then moving on to applying Islamic punishments,” he said.

However, the mujahedeen are clearly profiting from the hero status they acquired during the April battles against the Marines.

There is even talk of building a museum dedicated to the “struggle” against the American occupation. Money has been collected in recent weeks to help the families of those who died in the fighting, said by the locals to number 1,000 “martyrs.”

cjwright90
05-26-04, 12:15 PM
Isn't that the crap? We do it, and the world blacklists us. The media makes sure of that. They do it, and it is ok. Nice.

Sgted
05-26-04, 12:53 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
This is all based in religious law.
If you are anything but Muslim (or Islamic, etc) there is no winning here.
We (the coalition) can do all in our power to structure order in Iraq. After we leave some religious group will start a religious civil war and the bloodshed will continue.
These are people who daily life is not based on contributing anything to the world in terms of making it a better place.
Their goals are to Muslimize the world.
If you don't join them you are doomed.
They run small shops, hospitals, banks, "baby milk" factories, etc. But they do nothing to make our World a better place to exist.
All they have is oil and too much time on their hands.
One other observation.
You only see males in the streets.
Protesting the "occupation".
Celebrating death & destruction.
Look at the pictures seen almost everyday on TV.
There are always children within these ranks.
Learning hatred.
Firing guns in the air.
All in the name of Allah.
I believe in what we are doing.
If it will only work.

DSchmitke
05-26-04, 12:56 PM
Two different sets of rules one for us and one for them.

Tracker
05-26-04, 02:08 PM
The desire for freedom must well-up from within the people. These people have been fighting amoung themselves about their religious views since time immemorial. We can not take them "their" desire for freedom and democracy. Our invasion to find weapons of mass destruction was in the best interest of our country. However, we are fooling ourselves if we think we can change their fundamental way of thinking. It's their country, one of these days we're going to have to let them have it, and then it will go back to business as usual... if history is any indicator.

enviro
05-26-04, 02:15 PM
I'm beginning to think that maybe we should just try to isolate and contain the problem (the muslim world) instead of trying to clean the problem up. Let them have their holy lands and pull all non-muslims out of there. If one of them steps out of the containment zone, he's dead.

I know this is far-fetched, but maybe so is the idea of trying to install a democracy for these people.

cjwright90
05-26-04, 02:18 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again. This is all based in religious law.
If you are anything but Muslim (or Islamic, etc) there is no winning here.
We (the coalition) can do all in our power to structure order in Iraq. After we leave some religious group will start a religious civil war and the bloodshed will continue.
These are people who daily life is not based on contributing anything to the world in terms of making it a better place.
Their goals are to Muslimize the world.
If you don't join them you are doomed.

Like that Falujah story I read somewhere today. The mujadeen already are in there trying to make sure the Muslims of that town are acting according to thier God's laws. Flogging people for being drunk, etc.

cjwright90
05-26-04, 02:23 PM
Sorry-the beginning of this thread is where I read it. Long day.

HardJedi
05-26-04, 02:50 PM
Ya know, not that I GIve a RAT'S patootie, but people in general have the wong idea about muslims. The Koran does NOT preach violence and abuse any more than the King James Bible. In fact. In many places it is FAR more lenient, and LESS violent. it's the FUNDAMENTALIST-EXTREMIST Muslims who give the rest a bad name to the wetern cultures.

The fundamentlaists and extremists take a few passages out of context, and base the belief structure on THAT.

Same with the Pentecostals, the Menonites, the Quakers, and a LOT of splinter sects of the christian religion.

ANYWAY, Just thought I would point that out.

and NO I am NOT muslim. don;t care for following NAY religion really. But I DO read everything I can about ALL of them. including their holy books.

fulmetaljackass
05-26-04, 03:35 PM
This is WAY off the point, but hey....I put the "jackass" in "fulmetaljackass" for a reason.

Since we're on the subject of Muslims, it reminded me of how a fellow recruit in my platoon at bootcamp suddenly became a Muslim during second phase because he thought that would get him out of having to eat the pork chowmein MRE's (and I think there were a couple of other really nasty pork ones, too). Of course, making someone eat those meals is abuse and humiliation, so maybe this did fit.

enviro
05-26-04, 04:02 PM
Yes it is a bad generalization to say all muslims are bad. The fact that a lot of them can't read (therefore have never read the Koran) makes them depend on some homo cleric to tell him what he should be doing (i.e. blowing himself up).

One time I had a huge basket of apples. I picked one out and began to eat it. Upon further inspection, I found the some little green worms had infested my apple. I picked another one. It was full of green worms too. As was the third. The fourth apple seemed to be clean and so did the fifth. The sixth had green worms. I stopped there and threw the whole damn basket of 50 or so apples in a black garbage bag.

It would have been useless and time consuming for me to try and inspect each one. And I knew that if I missed one, the little green worms would attack the rest of my good apples. I let the green worms have the apples. They eventually died in that black garbage bag.

Then I went back down the road and kicked the crap out of the old timer who sold me the basket of apples.

How does this relate? Maybe we should let the muslims have their apples and they'll eventually kill themselves off. Isolate and contain. I don't think we should attempt to go up the road and kick the crap out of the guy who gave us the muslims, though.

Again, I'm not being too serious here. But what is the plan to eradicate terrorism. We can't change these people's minds. I believed whole heartedly we should go to Iraq. Mostly to settle some unfinished business. Now the only reason I want us to stay is because it ****es them off. I don't think we'll accomplish much more than that over the long term.

Sgted
05-26-04, 04:39 PM
Hardjedi.

I would assume we all are talking about the EXTREME-FUNDAMENTALIST Muslims here. I know I am.
Too bad this segment of Muslims give all the others a bad name.
Thats the way it is.

I admire you for the time you take to educate yourself about the Koran and other religions / Holy books.
I know the powers that be have said that it is in our (America's) best interest to learn all we can about those who would do harm to us.
I just wonder.
Are the people of Iraq and other Middle East countries doing the same as it relates to Christianity, etc ???
I think its time for ALL of us to understand one-another instead of it being just the western world.
And......if Muslims started educating themselves about me (Catholic), would I still be an infidel worthy of death only ???.

HardJedi
05-26-04, 04:50 PM
Well , maybe just thumbs screws and the rack, or irion maiden for bieng catholic ! LOL ( KIDDING! )

Sgted
05-26-04, 05:24 PM
Lucky for me that my Catholic mentors weren't into that !!!

On paper, Muslims are a peaceful lot.
However....