from the Red Cross [Archive] - Marine Corps

SheWolf

05-10-04, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by Sgtj
SheWolf,

What are you trying to say.

I'm trying to say that the responsibility of the abuse goes much higher than the so-called soldiers that committed the actual acts....

and that I think President Bush is trying to make it smaller than it is to save his butt.......... my opinion... I know i'm in the minority here....

Sgtj

05-10-04, 12:08 PM

Do think the POTUS made these calls. Respectfully, you must have lost your mind. Your right though, these calls did come from higher but not as high as your aiming. They might have called for some tough questioning but they would never make a stupid call like that. They know there are to many reporters and civies around.

Besides. This is a new war, we can not fight and expect to win using old stratigies. When G.W. said this was a few, he was right. It was a few compared to the 100's of thousand troops over there.

Have you ever lead a platoon, a squad or fireteam...Well I have.. I can tell you that the pictures you saw didn't start from the pentagon.

But that is just my opinion. Who am I.

SGT. J

enviro

05-10-04, 12:20 PM

These people that were "abused" were the same ones who were trying to kill your son and many others over there. Given a chance, they'll do it. They weren't jaywalking - they were trying to kill soldiers and Marines. I personally would just keep quite and not express outrage at what happened to them. They will rot in hell anyways. I don't care how they died or what they go through before they do die.

Personally, if I were President, I'd say "Oh, let me get your apology.... It's right here.... in my pocket....ah, here it is." And whip out my middle finger.

The DoD will take care of these problems according to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Those who DID the acts will be punished. Those who CONDONED the acts will be punished. Those that ordered the acts will be PUNISHED. Those who have over a MILLION troops to be responsible for will be punished by the liberals and the press.

But more importantly before all else: let them be tried! Let's find out what really happened before we judge them or anyone in the Chain of Command.

PUT YOUR JOB INTO THE HANDS OF OVER A MILLION PEOPLE. If just one of them screws up, you have to resign. BS

People need to quit screaming for an apology and quit screaming for Rumsfeld to resign.

Where's our apology? Jubilant residents dragged the charred corpses of four American contractors through the streets Wednesday and hung them from the bridge spanning the Euphrates River.

Where's our apology? Jubilant Iraqis danced on the twisted wreckage of a U.S. armored car in central Baghdad Thursday after a rocket-propelled grenade attack left three soldiers wounded.

And so on, and so on, and so on..... You do know I could go on?

SheWolf

05-10-04, 12:26 PM

Have you ever lead a platoon, a squad or fireteam...Well I have.. I can tell you that the pictures you saw didn't start from the pentagon.

But that is just my opinion. Who am I.

SGT. J [/B][/QUOTE]

to answer your question,, did I ever lead a platoon,,, yes I have,,, was I ever held accountable for something one of my platoon members did,, or didn't do,, yes....

I still say that the nature of this crime falls under top Command levels,,,,, did I say that President Bush personally authorized or even had knowledge at the time of the abuse ..... NO,,, but as CIC he still bears some of the responsibility.... should he be impeached (I'd love it) but the answer is no.... but the SecDef had better be held accountable, esp. since there is such debate over how soon he knew and when he informed the CIC....

as to the remark that I have lost my mind,,, maybe I have,,, I would have never dreamed that the US military would stoop to such levels,,, I don't think it is as isolated as they want to make it out,,, but I do not believe it is all encompassing of our troops,, but it will take years to make up for it...

and it puts my son and all others there at greater risk..

SheWolf

05-10-04, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by enviro
These people that were "abused" were the same ones who were trying to kill your son and many others over there. Given a chance, they'll do it. They weren't jaywalking - they were trying to kill soldiers and Marines. I personally would just keep quite and not express outrage at what happened to them. They will rot in hell anyways. I don't care how they died or what they go through before they do die.

Personally, if I were President, I'd say "Oh, let me get your apology.... It's right here.... in my pocket....ah, here it is." And whip out my middle finger.

The DoD will take care of these problems according to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Those who DID the acts will be punished. Those who CONDONED the acts will be punished. Those that ordered the acts will be PUNISHED. Those who have over a MILLION troops to be responsible for will be punished by the liberals and the press.

But more importantly before all else: let them be tried! Let's find out what really happened before we judge them or anyone in the Chain of Command.

PUT YOUR JOB INTO THE HANDS OF OVER A MILLION PEOPLE. If just one of them screws up, you have to resign. BS

People need to quit screaming for an apology and quit screaming for Rumsfeld to resign.

Where's our apology? Jubilant residents dragged the charred corpses of four American contractors through the streets Wednesday and hung them from the bridge spanning the Euphrates River.

Where's our apology? Jubilant Iraqis danced on the twisted wreckage of a U.S. armored car in central Baghdad Thursday after a rocket-propelled grenade attack left three soldiers wounded.

And so on, and so on, and so on..... You do know I could go on?

SO THAT GIVES US THE RIGHT TO STOOP TO THEIR LEVEL????
HELL NO!!!
DO WE DESERVE AN APOLOGY,, YES,,,
WILL IT MAKE A DIFFERENCE .. NO...

Kurt Stover

05-10-04, 12:36 PM

The red cross. These are the same folks who told us that the detainees in Gitmo were being treated like trash and were only getting 2 hot meals a day. Then a few were relesed and they said it was the best dang treatment they ever had and the most food that was ever presented to them in a week long period.

So if you think the red cross is nutral, why didn't they show up to visit Jessica Lynch and the other POW's? because they would have been killed, that's way.

The people of this country are so driven to believe the press it is laughable.

Listen, have you ever cleaned an M-16 rifle? No, okay, an oven perhaps, you clean it and you are satisfied that it is as clean as
a) You want it to be.
b) You can get it.
c) The next door neighbors.

I come over, with a 6 inch q-tip, and a white glove and tear it apart and before I get past the temp knob have failed you. If I'm looking for dirt, I will find it. It might suit you as being clean, but in my book, tear it apart and clean it, and do it again until it is done right. You as a civilian would freak to the Nth dgree at my ways and means.

But, I would say, the media says it isn't clean, and you would wonder where in he11 I was getting my information from, and I'd hold up "Ye old oven cleaning manual" written back in the 40's when women were of more a domesticated specialty, yeah, the 1740's maybe. Please, don't rely on MSNBC, CNN or Fox for that matter, it's slanted "Hello!!!!"

Yet, not only do you support the drivel they spew, you buy it lock, stock and barrel without even looking over the features installed. Give me a break....

Sgtj

05-10-04, 12:38 PM

Shewolf,

I respect your opinion how ever warped it may be, but when and where have you ever lead an INFANTRY platoon. I beleive of being held accountable for your subordinates actions but if this was a demo. sec def or a demo POTUS would we even had expected a damn apology.

Do you honestly think the Sec Def got on the phone and ordered them to take those actions... Give me a break. Those soldiers were ingnorant and bored and tried amuzing themselves and your right their individual command did not do anything when they should have. But you can not bring that down on the Sec Def. or the CIC.

But like I said before who am I.

enviro

05-10-04, 12:41 PM

I say they can stick their apology in their ass. I, like many others, have lost some close people in this war. I don't blame Rumsfeld, I don't blame Bush.

And if their killers (or friends of the killers) came to me with an apology, I would beat the ever-loving sh|t out of them. I would cut them from stem to stern. This is war.

And since there are only a handful of countries left that follow the Geneva Convention, I say it's outdated. Needs a revision.

The only thing that upsets me about Abu Gahrib is the photos. The dumbasses should have never taken photos.

Kurt Stover

05-10-04, 12:44 PM

Shewolf, I would highly recommend that you update your profile and enter a "Yes" into the "Are you a Marine" Column if in fact you are a Marine or have been a Marine. I was under the impression you were a Marine Mom. If you have stated so, prviously, then I need to read over all of your post's again.

Sgtj

05-10-04, 12:45 PM

Thanks enviro,

We do need to take different measures in winning this war... oh yeah we are... just some people in this country can't handle it.

Play nice guys...we don't want to hurt the enemies feelings

SheWolf

05-10-04, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by Kurt Stover
[B]The red cross. These are the same folks who told us that the detainees in Gitmo were being treated like trash and were only getting 2 hot meals a day. Then a few were relesed and they said it was the best dang treatment they ever had and the most food that was ever presented to them in a week long period.

So if you think the red cross is nutral, why didn't they show up to visit Jessica Lynch and the other POW's? because they would have been killed, that's way.

The people of this country are so driven to believe the press it is laughable.

Listen, have you ever cleaned an M-16 rifle? No,

]yes,, I have cleaned an M-16,, also an M14, and a 155- Howizter,,,, and yes I have been told many times to take it apart and clean it again,, no biggie,, did it,, yes sir, yes sir, 3 bags full...

But, I would say, the media says it isn't clean, and you would wonder where in he11 I was getting my information from, and I'd hold up "Ye old oven cleaning manual" written back in the 40's when women were of more a domesticated specialty, yeah, the 1740's maybe. Please, don't rely on MSNBC, CNN or Fox for that matter, it's slanted "Hello!!!!"

Yet, not only do you support the drivel they spew, you buy it lock, stock and barrel without even looking over the features installed. Give me a break.... [/B

I regard ALL media as slanted to a point,, but also that where there is smoke there is likely a fire (or a joint being toked on somewhere) you think NBC, CBS, OR ABC is any better,, how about Geraldo,, or Rush,, ok,, Howard Stern

Sgtj

05-10-04, 12:48 PM

What the hell are you talking about. If your a Marine or part of another military organization. When and where was it?

enviro

05-10-04, 12:51 PM

She was in the Army I believe

Kurt Stover

05-10-04, 12:51 PM

Nope, none of those, I read the J-2 report every morning, and I know you don't have access to it unless you have some high clearances and some special reason for it being honed into your house.

I'm not saying I'm the end all, but, when I read what is presented at least 2 weeks in advance, and then see a modified perverted presentation wioth embelishments from the news media, it about drives me crazy. needless to say, i can't say anything about it when it first comes out because it is labeled, and since I like my job and don't want to go to prison, I refute the garbage once it has been released.

What are the three major components of the M-16 rifle?

SheWolf

05-10-04, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by Sgtj
Shewolf,

I respect your opinion how ever warped it may be, but when and where have you ever lead an INFANTRY platoon. I beleive of being held accountable for your subordinates actions but if this was a demo. sec def or a demo POTUS would we even had expected a damn apology.

Do you honestly think the Sec Def got on the phone and ordered them to take those actions... Give me a break. Those soldiers were ingnorant and bored and tried amuzing themselves and your right their individual command did not do anything when they should have. But you can not bring that down on the Sec Def. or the CIC.

But like I said before who am I.

where did I say I lead an INFANTRY platoon,, I led a platoon in Military Intelligence,,,, and I know that things are different but the concept of chain of command is the same.... and yes I think that regardless of political affiliation an apology was the least to be expected,, but I hold that maybe if we had a demo whatever it might not have happened in the first place <<ducking for cover>>

do I think the sec def got on the phone,, okay that is ridiculous but he has said himself he wants to be informed and involved with prisoner interrogations etc,,,, so where does that go???

Sgtj

05-10-04, 01:01 PM

SheWolf,

Really, you make no sense. If we had a democratic president your right, it probably never would have happened and this world would be a better place RIGHT?

HELL NO! Your dead wrong, for 8 years your democratic president had this country's eyes closed while they dismantled our military and made us a weaker country defensively and offensively.

Open your damn eyes. If you were ever in "command" which I somehow doubt this very much, then you should see the bigger picture.

The POTUS is doing the right thing and people will get hurt, die and yes even humiliated by stripping them down naked, but who was *****ing when the Japanese soldiers would cut off the genitals of our Marines and stuff it into their mouths. I guess that was ok, because it wasn't on CNN RIGHT?

THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK.

SheWolf

05-10-04, 01:10 PM

Originally posted by Sgtj
[B]SheWolf,

Really, you make no sense. If we had a democratic president your right, it probably never would have happened and this world would be a better place RIGHT?]

for some reason the site didn't post what should have been between the brackets after that remark, and since we have a republican in office,, we will not know if a democratic president would have made it a better world ,,,

HELL NO! Your dead wrong, for 8 years your democratic president had this country's eyes closed while they dismantled our military and made us a weaker country defensively and offensively.

Open your damn eyes. If you were ever in "command" which I somehow doubt this very much, then you should see the bigger picture.
doubt all you want hun,,,, I was....and I know there is a bigger picture out there, but that still doesn't give us the right to abuse the prisoners

The POTUS is doing the right thing and people will get hurt, die and yes even humiliated by stripping them down naked, but who was *****ing when the Japanese soldiers would cut off the genitals of our Marines and stuff it into their mouths. I guess that was ok, because it wasn't on CNN RIGHT?

THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK.
[/BI'm sure there would have been an uproar at the time and there was afterwards,, isn't that what the Geneva Convention and the war crime trials were about??? I'm sorry this hit such a nerve, but you have some nerve implying that I would think that what the Japanese did was right or ok?? I just don't think that it's okay for us to stoop to their level,,,,

Kurt Stover

05-10-04, 01:13 PM

Being in the Army is not a ding, but, if you were in MI, then knowing what you read in the Intercept’s is watered down and taken totally out of context by the time some editor in Chicago who knows about the military from watching M*A*S*H on TV.

In your e-mail, that is cool beans, and in my experience, most OP's, REMF's and clerks had the most liberal views because they were inconvenienced due to some sort of action, it was the combat arms folks that went in and saw through the BS, and that pretty much is where I am at.

Sgtj

05-10-04, 01:15 PM

I agree, and I don't defend the actions of those soldeirs either, or their command. However I don't think you should point the finger at the Def Sec or Potus because this happened.

By the way, When your man Clinton was Pres. why didn't he take out OBL when he had the chance. Why did he decrease the size of our military. I can go on.

By the way... you never mentioned your exact unit(s) Rank, all the info we all are waiting for...

Sgt Keith Jolly

SheWolf

05-10-04, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by Kurt Stover
Being in the Army is not a ding, but, if you were in MI, then knowing what you read in the Intercept’s is watered down and taken totally out of context by the time some editor in Chicago who knows about the military from watching M*A*S*H on TV.

In your e-mail, that is cool beans, and in my experience, most OP's, REMF's and clerks had the most liberal views because they were inconvenienced due to some sort of action, it was the combat arms folks that went in and saw through the BS, and that pretty much is where I am at.

I know,, I hated Jack Anderson and the Washington post when I was at Ft Meade,,,I worked rotating shifts between 3-11 and 11-7,,, we would get off shift at 0730, after working and have to get up for a briefing at1300 just to remind us not to stick papers in our pockets at work that might have classified info written on it.. only to wake up the next day and see it spilled over the headlines,,,, griped my a** big time,, I do know that what I read on MSNBC or any of the others for that matter is not the full true story,, but since I am retired I have no access to the real stuff like I used to,,, so it is what I have to go on,,, but unfortunately it IS what the rest of the world goes on so it pi***** me off,,, but it is sad that any of our military have stooped to this level...

SheWolf

05-10-04, 01:23 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sgtj
I agree, and I don't defend the actions of those soldeirs either, or their command. However I don't think you should point the finger at the Def Sec or Potus because this happened.

By the way, When your man Clinton was Pres. why didn't he take out OBL when he had the chance. Why did he decrease the size of our military. I can go on.

By the way... you never mentioned your exact unit(s) Rank, all the info we all are waiting for...

Sgt Keith Jolly [/QUOTE

Last Rank held SSG in the Army
Last Duty Position: Platoon Sergeant
Last Active Duty Assignment: A Co, 732nd MI BN formerly known as Field Station Kunia, Hawaii

also stationed at: Ft Meade Md, working at NSA
A Co, 307th MI BN, Stuttgart Germany
HHC, Rock Island Arsenal, Rock Island IL

after completing 12 years Active Duty, I retired from the Active Reserves July 11, 1998,,,,, and am still a member of the Retired Reserves...

satisfied??? (waiting for all the Army jokes......)

Sgtj

05-10-04, 01:24 PM

I don't know about your military, but my military hasn't "Stooped" to this or any level.

I feel sorry for you.

But, I am done posting on this. You have your opinion.

Semper Fi.

SheWolf

05-10-04, 01:26 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sgtj
[B]I agree, and I don't defend the actions of those soldeirs either, or their command. However I don't think you should point the finger at the Def Sec or Potus because this happened.

By the way, When your man Clinton was Pres. why didn't he take out OBL when he had the chance. Why did he decrease the size of our military. I can go on.

why Clinton didn't take out OBL,, I don't know,, you will have to ask him,,, and he wasn't MY man (ewwww), he was my President as he was yours, like it or not,

snipowsky

05-10-04, 01:40 PM

Honestly I could care less about them abusing or torturing our enemies. They are enemies of the United States of America!

Radical Islamists want us all dead in the USA anyways, so why would I care if they are being mistreated or abused?

I DON'T!

It's ok for them to do what they did in Fallujah!

Have we killed any of their people then set them on fire, dragged them through street after street and after all that hung their dead bodies from bridges?

I WISH WE WOULD THEN THEY WOULD UNDERSTAND WE ARE NOT HERE TO PLAY GAMES!

I say torture and abuse them more often!

Sgt Sostand

05-10-04, 01:59 PM

What is wrong with our Country them people over their dont give a dam about the USA War on Terror seem to me like a joke why are we kissing those people a** that was shooting at us and we for get about the people that they killed that started all this crap so what we kick them around a bit but we did not burn them alive

Sgtj

05-10-04, 02:00 PM

I have an idea, why don't we just build a big fire, and invite all the enemies. Then and we can sing songs, and play grab a$s. Maybe then, they will know we mean business. We can invite CNN and all the others so our mommies back home can see how much fun we are having.

Oh wait fire is to dangerous, maybe we should just have a picnic to be safe.

Kurt Stover

05-10-04, 02:30 PM

I can play "Cumbi-ya" on a M-60.

yellowwing

05-10-04, 02:30 PM

This conduct by a few idiots and their commanders has hurt our war effort and the war on terror.

I've been researching many stories covering with the Red Cross and Abu Ghraib. Th Red Cross timeline is that they told US Authorities in October 2003.

Exactly what US Authorities they have not said. The Lance Corporal MP at the front gate of Pendleton could be considered a US Authority.

The media is spinning the hype with minimal facts.

SheWolf

05-10-04, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by snipowsky
Honestly I could care less about them abusing or torturing our enemies. They are enemies of the United States of America!

Radical Islamists want us all dead in the USA anyways, so why would I care if they are being mistreated or abused?

I DON'T!

It's ok for them to do what they did in Fallujah!

Have we killed any of their people then set them on fire, dragged them through street after street and after all that hung their dead bodies from bridges?

I WISH WE WOULD THEN THEY WOULD UNDERSTAND WE ARE NOT HERE TO PLAY GAMES!

I say torture and abuse them more often!

It is NOT ok for them to do what they did,,,, but it is NOT okay to do what those troops did to the Iraqi's,,, two wrongs make two wrongs, with the wrong from the stronger nation even being more wrong,,

Kurt Stover

05-10-04, 02:40 PM

AGHHH! I hope you use more better english! That hurt my head!

SheWolf

05-10-04, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by Kurt Stover
AGHHH! I hope you use more better english! That hurt my head! SUCCESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

HardJedi

05-10-04, 02:55 PM

ya know. one thing that I have learned in my life is this. We are HERE, and THEy are THERE. The only casualties that matter in a war are OUR casualties.

There are things that happen in domestic CRMINAL prisons, to people who did no more than stole a car or two, worse than what hapened or is happening to the POWS.

WHO CARES? they are the enemy. Stuff like this has gone on, and WILL go on as long as there are wars. WE just happened to get caught( again) and now must apease the bleeding hearts with apologies.

Would i be outraged if the same treatment was given to American POW'S? Sure! but that is becuase they are OURS!