Should Leatherneck.com be de-politicized

[namgrunt]

It has been suggested that this website has wandered from its original founding purpose. This is pointed out by one brother in the following postings.

So what are you Republican Marines going to do if our grand republic elects John Kerry to the Whitehouse? All this political badmouthing and counter mudslinging is showing everyone that our Marine Corps brotherhood is paper thin.

I have also been guilty on getting into these pointless scraps. It does not serve our purpose that Leatherneck has stated in the the FAQ:
"Originally launched on November 10, 2001 to coincide with the Marine Corps Birthday, we are dedicated to providing service, support and the most information pertaining to the Marine Corps as possible. Our objective simple and clear: To build a support community of Marines, designed for Marines, by Marines."

What we are doing is showing the world that we are divided. I'm sure our webmaster can look at the access logs and see how many people from Syria and Iran are checking out our lack of Esprit de Corps.

Instead of researching rebuttals, I am now trying now to spend more time researching USMC history and helpful motivation for these young poolees. We do not have political officers in our Corps!

Our combat veterans can pass on what are some real world applications for SMEAC, five paragraph order, what is OCOKA, and that kind of thing.
Leatherneck is no longer a Marine Corps forum. It is now a poltical forum. We are Republican Marines and Democratic Marines. We don't need to foster the brotherhood or teach these poolees anything as long as we have some juicy tidbit of politics to toss around..

The question is legitimate, and needs our consideration.

1*Is this the place to conduct political discussion in the middle of an inflammatory election year?

2*Should there be another site specifically to address the fighting between Marines of differing political parties?

3*Does anyone here think this is NOT the place for these arguments?

4*Shoud this website be censored against mention of certain aspects of American life?

Sound Off!


Semper Fi!
namgrunt

[fade2black]

Good point. My $.02 is maybe have a political forum and dump it all in there. I wouldn't call our bickering about politics lack of Esprit de Corps, it's called freedom of speech..something we defend on a daily basis. If everyone agreed on politics it wouldn't be any fun :) Maybe make the forum only accessable to Marines and not the Poolees.

[USMC-FO]

"It is now a poltical forum. We are Republican Marines and Democratic Marines"......

I would argue we are all UNITED STATES MARINES.....we are a family and all families ***** and bicker so why should we be different just becasue were a semi-public forum?

My direct answers to your questions Namgrunt are: Yes, No, No, and No.

I am not bothered by our differences or our sniping at one another. I rather view it all as a strength not a weakness. We'd be a far to duller place to visit if we self censored our obviously strong opinions. To do otherwise, it seems to me, would be a sort of surrendering to a 'make nice political correctness' F that !!

As far as the poolees are concerned I suspect they are all being well mentored seeing us a family that *****es among ourselves...but will still go out sit down and have a beer and understand we are all really Marines and at ist base that is all that really matters.

[USMC-FO]

Well obviously we have some censorship going on as I see some of my wording was exsized !! Just is case there was uncertainity on the words expunged were B *TCHE(S) Jesus are we all that sensitive ??

[mrbsox]

Originally posted by namgrunt
It has been suggested that this website has wandered from its original founding purpose. This is pointed out by one brother in the following postings.


.

The question is legitimate, and needs our consideration.

1*Is this the place to conduct political discussion in the middle of an inflammatory election year?

Why would an election year have anything to do with it?? Perhaps a 'Politicis and Policies' forum would keep discussions segregated.

2*Should there be another site specifically to address the fighting between Marines of differing political parties?

Not anothe site, maybe just 'Office Hours' of a sort. Suspended without posting priveliges or something, if a PM from a moderator doesn't settle it. Lock a thread that is getting out of hand, etc.

3*Does anyone here think this is NOT the place for these arguments?

YES, this is not the place. But don't restrict Poolees from a forum either. What would that show for the 'Brotherhood' that 'Take Care of their Own' ?? See office Hours above.

4*Shoud this website be censored against mention of certain aspects of American life?

NO, 1st Ammendment and all that. But we SHOULD keep things at a public acceptance level. But we should ALL also remember that there are certian behaviors that are NOT ACCEPTABLE to others.

Sound Off!


Semper Fi!
namgrunt

Guilty of some of the above, yeah probably.

When an OPINION is stated, lets remember it's an OPINION. When someone asks a question, it should not because he is Republican or Democrate or Liberal or Irish or....
it's just for an answer, another view point.

$.02 provided

[Super Dave]

Now come on..you KNOW we Marines sometimes argue just to have something to do...it's almost a sport for us...

[yellowwing]

I think one of the complications is that we have Marines in the field. Our Brothers are under fire all over this world.

In our political arguments, I have detracting from the Commander in Chief in order to support my choice of candidates. That is not helpful.

Meanwhile we do have these fine young poolees under our wing. Before we know it they will go from the MCRD to SOI to Iraq. One of them is Cement03. He came aboard as a poolee and made his last forum post from Iraq. We can we do to help?

One of the goals in any public forum is participation. Yes, the politics invites lots of participation! There are plenty of other topics to discuss and knowledge and experience to share. The moderators have been very good at letting us run things as we see fit, only stepping when it get too personal.

I love the Marine Corps and I love America (I really I do miss the good ole US of A). Whoever wins the elections, as long as there is a Marine Corps, we'll be okay.

[Kurt Stover]

I would be inclined to say that some here, come to a gun fight looking for a fight, but only armed with a toothpick. If it is a nice and warm fuzzies you want, then I suggest we talk about needle point or perhaps the latest in brittany spears fashion line up.

I dunno, but I can remember getting into some fights in those good old open squadbays up at Mainside near the Fallbrook gate, with at least 7 or more different Marines. If you are going to talk sh1t, then expect to get sh1t back. This is a grunt adage, and we had the dumb mothers that would be 125 pounds soaking wet and try to mouth off to some 220 pound disagree-er and the small guy would get pumelled. Not that I'm saying getting your a$$ kicked everytime you expressed your point of view is right, but, I would think one would be a tad bit more apprehensive in conversation subjects or at least where and when topics of discussion are brought up.

If we are worried about poolee(s) being abhorred by terse language and vulgar display of lambasting(s), then I highly recommend some of you fearful ones go watch some of the latest cartoon's and video games, let alone some of the "Action" movies out and about. Don't recommend it, but go watch "Kill Bill", Holy cat crap! Or "Trainging Day".

I truly feel we are in a day in age where a person of a certain ilk is all about abortion, sexual education in grade school, NAMBLA, gay marriage and a whole slew of ludicrous ideas and then come here and whine about politics and the bashing of a few Marines, is a sorry day. You think jim carvell gives a cats hind end about what other Marines care or say about him? I can't stand the guy, but my name don't show up on his W-2 form, so I guess what I think of the guy don't bother him to much.

Marines are vulgar and coarse, otherwise we wouldn't be Marines, we'd be the d@mned Air Force or Coast Guard. I can bet bullets to dollars that if some of you "More sensitive" folk were standing out in the middel of the street, and a huge truck was barreling down the road straight at you, and I yelled, "Hey! Get the fvck outta the road idiot, your gonna get run over" You would be more affronted and appalled at the fact I cursed and called you an idiot than the actual getting run over by all 18 wheels of a transport truck. Sheeezzzz. Sorry 'bout that bub, maybe next time I'll send you a card with nice little floral arraingment.

[enviro]

Since politicians have the ultimate effect on where and what the Marines Corps does, I say discussions about them are as normal as a "We hadda guy in bootcamp" stories.

Poolees need to listen and need to VOTE in the next election if they are of age. Poolees should feel free to weigh in on the topic as well. I personally like to know how different people see things.

[Sparrowhawk]

We should no longer talk about politics or religion, taxes and <strike>Wimen</strike> women.

LOL

Just ahd a beer, I gotta go pee

[Sparrowhawk]

Originally posted by USMC-FO
Well obviously we have some censorship going on as I see some of my wording was exsized !! Just is case there was uncertainity on the words expunged were B *TCHE(S) Jesus are we all that sensitive ??

Its the puter, it knows when I is gona say things I should not say, thats why I says I gotta go pee and didn't say I was gona go ****, see what I mean it censored me.


P
I
S
S

[thedrifter]

And you didn't share any beer with us Cook........LOL


Ellie

[Sparrowhawk]

1*Is this the place to conduct political discussion in the middle of an inflammatory election year?

When else can we exchange ideas, with Marines that have been trained to love our country, and its institutions and form of government...



2*Should there be another site specifically to address the fighting between Marines of differing political parties?

Sure I can go to the, I love Kerry site….

3*Does anyone here think this is NOT the place for these arguments?

Gosh darn Jarheads are the most opinionated people of this earth, why should I argue with a swabbie?


4*Shoud this website be censored against mention of certain aspects of American life?

It’s the parts of those unmentionables that get's us in trouble..LOl

[namgrunt]

Lots of interesting ideas floating around here. I myself don't have a problem with talking politics, but some other Marines think otherwise. I wanted to be fair to those men, and posed the idea to all the Gyrenes who post.

If this website were to go "Emily Post", then I'd ask my name be scrubbed from the member list and I'd "transfer" elsewhere. If a Marine wants to assist the Poolees, there is no one stopping him or her. If the talk drifts, or is dragged ,kicking and screaming, into the political arena, then I will participate.

I think the idea of a specific forum for political threads might be worth thinking about. I don't like the idea of censorship of ideas or political beliefs. It is one thing to be thumped for your beliefs, and quite another to have no avenue for expression. I choose Thumper.

If, as mrbsox suggests, this is Not the place for such discussions, then where is the right place to hold such discourses? The specific forum might work, but we have no guarantees it will quell any rancor which may exist right now.

The reason to consider this is also shown by the fact that some Marines, such as MajMike, have disappeared from posts. Some of the reason may be the howling counterattack to their posts. He and other men and women like him, have become silent. This is not an exchange of ideas, but an overbearing stomp on the ideas of others. Just because someone is not right wing, as I am, doesn't mean he should be shouted down to silence.

Yes, I'm just as guilty as anyone, of landing on other Marines' chests with both combat boots and a loud KA-BOOM. That is why I felt compelled to post this. We all need to be heard. How this will occur during the current situation will remain to be seen. The brother who originally posted the quotes I used isn't identified because it doesn't matter. He is a Marine too, and that is all that matters in the tight fights against true enemies.

Semper Fi!

[Osotogary]

The "Chat Room" say's it pretty good. "Be pleasant, polite and act like a Marine." (In my case...guest.)
I like diversity of thought and action, as long as it is for the good of all consensus approved activities. I think the ground rules are already in place for pleasant and heated discussions. Heck, those discussions can usually spawn creative dialogs which aside from being educational are downright entertaining.
I don't think that anyone has to be pigeon-holed into a particular political bracket just because they have a certain point of view about a certain topic. Perhaps that same person will have a totally different opinion about another topic that will be contrary to the political bracket, he or she, was placed in because of his or her first point of view.
I know that I am developing some finite fundamental beliefs that I am comfortable with which might be seen as being conservative but I refuse to allow myself not to be open to liberal ideas that can, with modification, enhance my up to now conservative inclinations. I have been exposed and taught by many. Here's the kicker. I really don't know if the major influuences in my life were Conservative, Liberal, Democrat, Republican , Libertarian or other.
Life's funny that way.
I like this website. It is diverse and honest. I'd like to do my share to keep it that way.
Gary(osotogary)

[greensideout]

Originally posted by Osotogary
The "Chat Room" say's it pretty good. "Be pleasant, polite and act like a Marine." (In my case...guest.)
I like diversity of thought and action, as long as it is for the good of all consensus approved activities. I think the ground rules are already in place for pleasant and heated discussions. Heck, those discussions can usually spawn creative dialogs which aside from being educational are downright entertaining.
I don't think that anyone has to be pigeon-holed into a particular political bracket just because they have a certain point of view about a certain topic. Perhaps that same person will have a totally different opinion about another topic that will be contrary to the political bracket, he or she, was placed in because of his or her first point of view.
I know that I am developing some finite fundamental beliefs that I am comfortable with which might be seen as being conservative but I refuse to allow myself not to be open to liberal ideas that can, with modification, enhance my up to now conservative inclinations. I have been exposed and taught by many. Here's the kicker. I really don't know if the major influuences in my life were Conservative, Liberal, Democrat, Republican , Libertarian or other.
Life's funny that way.
I like this website. It is diverse and honest. I'd like to do my share to keep it that way.
Gary(osotogary)

Well crap! Just when I think that I'm the one who has figured life out, you come along with this.

Good post! :yes:

[namgrunt]

I wanted to re-iterate the idea that regardless of how angry or loud we get with each other, we still have the bond of the Corps. One of the things written in the original quote I used was this
So what are you Republican Marines going to do if our grand republic elects John Kerry to the Whitehouse? All this political badmouthing and counter mudslinging is showing everyone that our Marine Corps brotherhood is paper thin.
That stuck like an unsheathed bayonet. Yes, we do argue and tussle with each other, call each other names and denigrate the lineage and ancestry of our opponent sometimes, but we are all on one side of the major factor, our service.

When I was in Nam, I almost came to fists with the platoon guide because he bypassed me in the chain of command, and started pushing one man in my squad unnecessarliy, for something for which he was not at fault. I told the Sergeant that if he wanted to thump on someone's chest, it had better be mine. I was the one who thumped my men when they screwed up. We were squaring off when it was stopped by the Plt Cmdr intervening, calling us both to stand down.

The next morning, this same Sgt came to me in the middle of a firefight, and asked for extra ammo I might have for the M79 Grenade Launcher. I gave him all I could spare, because I needed him to watch my back as he needed me to watch his. We were on one side when the S*** hit the fan. That was what counted. That was how it went down in the end. We were Marines first.

There was no thin veneer behind which nothing existed. We fought each other because we had disagreements. We fought the NVA because he wanted all of us dead, arguments not withstanding. That was why the comment felt like an unsheathed bayonet. Each of us must get past such things and allow our brothers their say. They may not be correct, but being Marines, they are NEVER wrong.

[greybeard]

No-the website should not be the subject of political censorship. Censorship, or censureship, as the case applies if directed toward only one side of an equation, is a cowardly and childish way of ensuring only one agenda is permitted. Some websites have gone this route, on the false premise that open discussion does not address or meet the original purpose for which the forum or board was established. I've seen members banned, simply for telling the truth, when that truth opposed a falsehood presented by a moderator. I find it appaling that some combat Marines, banned from those websites, have no open recourse(ip blocked-no posting or viewing privileges), yet Ossama Bin Laden and any other member of Al Queda is easily able to at least view the sites. Heavily moderated sites all have 2-3 things in common.
1. Decreased member participation and viewing.
2. Vastly increased #'s of pasted posts by moderators, in an attempt to mask the marked decrease in member participation.
3. A rule that does not allow any public discussion of posting policies.

#3 is interesting. This is to prevent having the general membership voicing their opinions openly. It creates the facade that all is well and all members are happy campers. When you see a warning at the top of the page that looks like this-you know you are on a site that is afraid of the truth, and bowing to the whims of a few, rather than the needs and wants of the majority of the membership.

"This is a moderated forum
Be advised, all posts or replies to posts in this forum are reviewed prior to being made public. Your post will be visible as soon as a moderator checks in."

Don't let it happen here.

[USMCWifeNMom]

I think it's important to share different points of view. How the bloody heII could we possibly grow if all we ever did was agree with one another?

I openly, (and proudly) admit being a Card Carrying Vast Right Wing Conspiracy Operative-Second Amendment Gun Toting Sister-LIFETIME NRA Member-CONSERVATIVE Registered Republican ... WHO VOTES ... but even I, in my far to the right world like hearing what the opposition has to say.

Perhaps the moderators "should" refrain from getting in the political mix ... to nix the possibility of being labled "biased" ... but my husband, daughter, two sons-in-law and nephew (all Marines) ... along with their brothers and sisters in uniform defend the First Amendment so that we CAN speak our minds.

..... how would they feel if they knew we were even contemplating giving up one of the things they fight for us for?

Parish the thought and Let Freedom Ring!

R/O
"Mom"

[Sixguns]

I take exception to the thought that posts are modified or removed by moderators. As a memebr and moderator to this site for several years, I can count on one hand the number of posts I have removed or editted. I usually allow members free range to post their thoughts, feelings or opinions without fear of it being altered or eliminated. In fact, the only time I have removed a post was due to the tone and intent of the post to personal attack another member that many found unwarranted.

As far as political views, regardless of your beliefs, affiliation or alliance to a particular candidate, you are free to express your opinions, but in the end, once elected, the President of the United States is the Commander-in-Chief. As a Marine I served for many years for a President whom I didn't vote for or share idealogical beliefs with. Regardless, he was due the respect of the office and position he held. For those who served, you may remember this saying: "you don't have to respect the person, but you will respect the rank and title the individual holds."

Again, before members lump all moderators into one category or make assumptions that we all have some political agenda, I ask you to take a closer look at the posts and the moderators who monitor their respective boards. It is unfair to assume that all moderators act to squash alternative viewpoints to their own.


Sixguns

[Sparrowhawk]

Originally posted by Sixguns
I take exception to the thought that posts are modified or removed by moderators. As a memebr and moderator to this site for several years, I can count on one hand the number of posts I have removed or editted. I usually allow members free range to post their thoughts, feelings or opinions without fear of it being altered or eliminated. In fact, the only time I have removed a post was due to the tone and intent of the post to personal attack another member that many found unwarranted.

As far as political views, regardless of your beliefs, affiliation or alliance to a particular candidate, you are free to express your opinions, but in the end, once elected, the President of the United States is the Commander-in-Chief. As a Marine I served for many years for a President whom I didn't vote for or share idealogical beliefs with. Regardless, he was due the respect of the office and position he held. For those who served, you may remember this saying: "you don't have to respect the person, but you will respect the rank and title the individual holds."

Again, before members lump all moderators into one category or make assumptions that we all have some political agenda, I ask you to take a closer look at the posts and the moderators who monitor their respective boards. It is unfair to assume that all moderators act to squash alternative viewpoints to their own.


Sixguns

DITTO

I also can count the number of post I have removed... humm

ICome to think about it, I believe half of those were my own..


LOL

[thedrifter]

Thank You........Sixguns and Cook...........

Ellie

[yellowwing]

This election will be over 5 months. I thank my God that the Marine Corps and Leatherneck will last longer that that! :)

[greybeard]

I was not in any way referring to this website-merely explaining what I've seen elsewhere. I thought I was clear, but perhaps I should have said " Some other websites have gone this route, on the false premise that open discussion..."

Better?

[TracGunny]

I also can count the number of post I have removed... humm

ICome to think about it, I believe half of those were my own..There are a few of mine I would like to take back...

[Eaglestrikes]

Republican Marines???
What will they do? Dunno. Don't care. Survive I Imagine. Not a problem. Kerry is not gonna win anyway. 1st Amendment applies only if the web site owner says it does. I would suggest that fire in a crowded theater is still a no no. Marines disagree. Gee. You think? I once told a 2nd lt he was lost, he disagreed. We went where he wanted. He got a radio call asking him why he was invading North Vietnam all by his lonesome with one little old marine platoon. We backtracked rather quickly. Too late. Artillery opened up. Fortunately no one got hurt. The Lt came the next day and we spent 8 + hours reading maps and working on co-ordinates. I helped him out. He was after all our leader. Not a bad person just headstrong. Some Marines are Dem. Some Rep. Some Independent, or Libertarian. Probably got some Green Peacers. So what. Politics is part of the National Framework. Like Charley Daniels says:
You just put your hands on a Pittsburgh Steelers fan and you'll understand.
And so it goes.
Don't fix it if it ain't broke.
Semper Fi

[HardJedi]

green peacers? really? I'm not too sure about THAT one! LOL

[bigalholmes165]

"This is a moderated forum

Trust me, the moderated forum bit that Greybeard posted, is a real one. If you don't follow the rules to the letter, you can be banished for life.

That site, is full of us older Marines, and seems to be dying a slow death.

There is much 'to-do' said about the number of 'hits' to the site, but the banter is gone. "Hits' are one thing, a click of the mouse, that's all, no input, no discussion, no nothing.


It is truly sad when a 'moderator' must first view and then decide whether any post submitted shall indeed be included and deemed worthy and PC for the World to see.

Take for instance - Yesterday - The passing of President Ronald Reagan, our former CinC. Has anything been said, posted, announced or whatever? No, it has not, or at least not by 0800 the day after.

The moderator must decide if a post is deemed acceptable for the masses to see.



So you see, this is where it could lead. This board has certain rules and regulations, as I am sure all sites do. They should and must be followed.



The amusing portion of some of the daily postings on this site are the 'one- liners', or whatever, used simply to 'boost' the submitters post count. You can't even follow the thread with the small amount of input or 'letters', and must go back and 're-read' the thread to see where all the LOL's, etc., etc., are going.


Sorry, I digress.


end

[Eaglestrikes]

>>green peacers? really? I'm not too sure about THAT one! LOL<<
Me either. Couldn't rule it out though.

[yellowwing]

bigalholmes165, Former President Ronald Reagan Dies at 93 (http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14983) June 05 2004 04:10 PM

[bigalholmes165]

yellowwing - It seems a bit of misunderstanding here - I was referring to a.n.other site, when I wrote that no posting had been made of President Reagan passing away.

Of this I was speaking.

[yellowwing]

My apologies. President Reagan was one tough SOB!