View Full Version : IRANT on IRAQ
Just feel like ranting awhile. Do you have any thoughts to add, support, rebuke, or just plain vent with me ??
This new news about the “M14” group in Iraq is making too much sense.
Looking at Fallujah, where are they (insurgents) getting all this ammo, explosives, guns, mortars, RPG’s, food, water, instructions, …. to keep going ??
We have the city surrounded, nothing in or out with out us knowing it. Are they out running night vision, satellites, proximity sensors, U2’s, vibration detectors… We blow up a cache, and they bring out more.
Tunnels. Underground bunkers. An entire support network. How could you explain near simultaneous attacks in different cities previously, coincidence or communication ??
Near identical tactics from city to city… coincidence or communication ??
The fighters don’t seem to be wearing down, getting tired, hungry. They are using TAUGHT tactics, adapting, ambushing. Where did the Fadayeem and Republican guard disappear to ?? Remain in waiting for a year ??
This M14 planning makes too much sense !! They had YEARS to prepare this strategy, years to stockpile bunkers, tunnels, weapons, and who knows what kind.
Let the occupiers get in, then come up from inside, beside, behind. Extend it out. Where down the people at home. Make the U.S. get tired of the news, the caskets, the spending, the B.S. politics in an election year.
So, what’s the answer ?? Keep talking ??
How about a MOAT !! About 50 yards wide, 100 or so feet deep, dug with 500 pounders, ALL AROUND THE Fkn CITY. Maybe it’s a start to the end.
Maybe we shut them off, build a Fkn fence, and give the rest of the country a chance at freedom. Let them set there and rot.
Maybe I’m dead wrong. Maybe I'm tired of my brothers dying and not making any progress.
Can someone tell me why we invaded this hell hole? When did Iraq actually attack us? Did they have WMDs like the neocons said?
CPLRapoza
05-02-04, 04:38 AM
Eddie, if you don't feel that we should have gone into Iraq when we did, fine that's your opinion, but let me share with you something. Ok no, Iraq had not formally, physically attacked us, this is obvious, but mentally and morally they did, by not following and obidiny by the resolutions set for by the security council. Come on now, how many times and how long will you let somebody slap you in the face before you hit them back.
We gave them 12 years and 14 resolutions, we know he had WMD at the end of the first Gulf War, which is why the first resolution was pasted. What we looked for last year, was the proof of Saddams accordance to.
On to another leaf, nowing it was possible that he could someway and some how obtain nuclear, biological or chemical weapons, and use them on his own people what makes you think he wouldn't use them on someone else. Or just imagine, Uday and Qusay getting a hold of the rain. What a ride that would be.
Last point... Obviously you never read and learn the Codes of Conduct, we obide by. You didn't have to go far because the one I'll refer to is Article I: "I am an American fighting in the forces that protect my country AND OUR WAY OF LIFE, I am prepared to give my life in it's defense" We are freedom fighters for all those who do not lack the courage to do so themselves.
So in closing why don't I tell you this, quit worrying about America as if it where the only Dog'on country on this planet. Their pain IS our pain and there is no way around that. If we would not have go in and helped our fellow man when we did who would and how long would it be before they did. You might say it's not your problem or our problem if your modest, but I'm here to tell you it is. Any attack on human life is everybodys problem and it's about time somebody was strong enough to attack and stop it intea of look away.
If this doesn't make any sense to you, PM me and I will gladly explain in further detail.
CPLRapoza
So if our military are freedom fighters for the world then who's next? There are plenty of people in banana republics and third world hell holes to liberate. As for the Codes of Conduct, I have read them and understand them. I don't see Article I as a mandate to bring our way of life to other countries. If people want freedom they need to fight for it themselves. As for Saddam using weapons on his own people, he used them in '88 on his own people. All Bush's daddy did was give Saddam a slap on the wrist for that. He was still our boy as long as he was going against the radical elements of Islam. Where was the battle cry then for Iraqi liberation? Where was the battle cry for Iraqi liberation after the first Gulf War? We could have given air support to the Shiite rebellion after the first Gulf War. Bush41 didn't do so because he knew radical Islam might just try and take hold in Iraq like it's trying to do so now. We had Iraq in a box with the no fly zones and now our troops are going to be dealing with that hell hole for years to come because the neocons had a hardon for invasion.
CPLRapoza
05-02-04, 09:47 PM
It's obvious we will never come to an agreement and could argue this isue to death, but I see no point. I' done argueing about something I that in my heart I know was right.
eddief -
You answered your own question about when did Iraq attack us. We had them in a box with the no-fly zones? Every chance they got, they shot at our aircraft. That is an act of war. Even brought some of them down (manned and unmanned).
Did they have WMD? Who the hell cares? He threatened to use weapons he was forbidden to have. Would you call the cops if your neighbor kept threatening you with a gun. And when they came and didn't find a gun, they go home. Then he keeps calling you and threatening you some more. When do you say enough is enough?
Many have said it before and I'll say it again. If previous Presidents had dealt with this issue before, we wouldn't be doing it now. Each day tyrants and terrorists go unchecked, they grow stronger. You cut the cancer out before it spreads.
You slam Bush 41 with no mention of Clinton. Clinton responded to the hundreds of deaths of our brothers in unifrom by sending some freaking cruise missles to an aspirin factory. Good tactic - maybe the b@stards will die of headaches and heart disease.
You exposure yourself as being from the far left. The anti-war left. Something I am not at all afraid to challenge.
enviro
I'm not left or right. I'm just an American. Label me whatever the hell you want though if it makes you feel good. Can you be anti-war if you wholeheartedly support the operations in Afghanistan? I thought anti-war meant being against all wars. I guess retired Marine General Zinni is far left anti-war too. He didn't agree with going into Iraq either. As for Clinton, I'm no fan of his either. I'm a libertarian who can't stand the Repugnants or the Demorats (the politicians- not regular joes). As for them firing on us in the no fly zones we made them pay every time they did it. As for your cop analogy, why the hell do we have to be the world's policeman? Screw that BS. As for the war in Iraq now, we have to stay now that we're there. Like Colin Powell told the president-"You break it. You own it." God help our troops in that hell hole.
CplRapoza
Yes, all we're left with is opposing viewpoints on the war in Iraq. Thankfully we can express those opinions freely here in America. I know my opinion is not a popular one on this forum, but I appreciate being able to express it here.
Doesn't make me "feel good" to label anything.... Call it like I see it. You blame Bush 41 and the current Bush yet make no mention of the previous failures to respond adequately by other Presidents.
we made them pay every time they did it How so? By bombing their crappy equipment? That sure taught 'em not to mess with us! And I'm sure the guys behind the equipment stuck around to see what our response would be. Maybe we would just give up retaliating and not strike back this time.
General Zinni's four stars doesn't make him right. He stands pretty much in the minority among other four stars.
And if you are Libertarian, you are anti-war. I stand by my original statement.
World's Police? If you think that these oceans are going to protect us, you are smoking something fierce. Maybe we should build huge walls around the U.S. and let the rest of the world burn in hell. We thought the same thing after every major war the U.S. has ever had. And when the next war came, our pants were down because of the people who didn't think the world was our business. REACTIVE or PROACTIVE?
Enough is enough with this crap in the middle east. These people (the terrorists, not the culture) are dictating their beliefs through terror. Saddam was no different. He had only one thing the terrorists didn't have - a title. Terrorists don't need a title when they control all of the other "titles" in the region. And the last thing we need is a "title" giving buttloads of money to terrorists and offering them safe-haven.
If you found out your congressman was giving money and shelter to the 9-11 Hijackers, you'd be pi$$ed at him. You'd want his butt strung up for that. Or would you? Maybe we could have worked something out peacefully with the congressman. It's the Libertarian way. Or would we even have any congressmen? I'm confused with the Libertarian's "limited government" - "peace on earth" - "anti-war" - "do what you want as long as it doesn't hurt others" - namby pamby BS.
The hippies have regrouped and formed a political party.....
usmc4669
05-03-04, 11:15 AM
eddief
Can someone tell me why we invaded this hell hole? When did Iraq actually attack us? Did they have WMDs like the neocons said?
I think that it was to get rid of Saddam. Did we have to wait for Iraq to attack us like Japan did in 41? This we may never find out unless we go into Syria and find them.
eddief
All Bush's daddy did was give Saddam a slap on the wrist for that. He was still our boy as long as he was going against the radical elements of Islam. Where was the battle cry then for Iraqi liberation? Where was the battle cry for Iraqi liberation after the first Gulf War?
[b]Bush's daddy did what he said he would do and no more, run Saddam home with his tail between his legs. I cannot recall daddy Bush saying that he was going to invade Iraq at that time, did you? The battle cry was from the Liberals after daddy Bush did what he set out to do, after they saw how easy it was to make Saddam run and hide. The Liberals then said that daddy Bush should have gone all the way to Baghdad. If we had would it have been any difference then as it is now?
We could have given air support to the Shiite rebellion after the first Gulf War.
Now that really makes sense, help build another Iran just what we need in the Middle East isn't it? Who do you think we are fighting there now? The ones that you would have helped after the Gulf War.
We had Iraq in a box with the no fly zones and now our troops are going to be dealing with that hell hole for years to come because the neocons had a hardon for invasion.
The no fly ZONE, wasn't doing much to keep Saddam from building up his arsenal, he kept trying to shoot down our aircraft didn't he? Would you say that he was attacking us then? Or just protecting what was his. As for the neoconservatives having a hard-on for invasion, If I remember right this was approved by our good friends the Liberals, the neoconservatives couldn't have done it without their approval.
CplRapoza
Yes, all we're left with is opposing viewpoints on the war in Iraq. Thankfully we can express those opinions freely here in America. I know my opinion is not a popular one on this forum, but I appreciate being able to express it here.
Now this I will agree with you on.
Gunny
Here now.... down boy, down !!
I didn't crank this thread out to get ya'll to squabbling over why were there, who shot john, or any of that crap. Take that out to the parking lot, or another thread.
I don't give a flying Fk WHY were there right now... the fact of the matter is that we ARE there, and OUR brothers are getting killed and were not gaining any ground.
What I was hoping to get some scuttle butt on was if anybody else had any ideas on WHY we're not making any ground.
WHY are we not wearing them down ??
WHY are we not running them out of the 3 B's, Beans Bullits and Bandaids ??
Why are they adapting to tactics and strategy ??
Is our Intel THAT bad ?? That ain't GW's fault.
This "M14" group, are we playing INTO their plan ??
Ya'll squawk like politicians AFTER we get or guys (and Gals) back home. Right now I want to keep them in good health, and put an end to this 'insurgent' BS.
Even if it means back off and fence in a Fkn bomb crater. It may be cheaper to build a new town, than RE-build that hell hole.
Terry
In answer to all of your questions:
Simply put - this is the new face of combat. This war will be the guidelines for future wars. Military planners are scrambling to revise "textbook procedure" as we speak.
The first phase of this war was easy. Kill the guys wearing the uniforms of Iraqi soldiers. It was easy for the President to declare "Mission Accomplished" because the uniformed were no longer a threat.
The second phase of this war is guerilla warfare unlike we have ever seen before. It has been a huge learning experience for a lot of us. History will prove that every major war has brought on a "new face of combat". This is why wars have always lasted for several years. It always takes us a few years to adjust and "turn the tide"
I feel that Desert Storm may have given people the wrong impression about war and how long it should take to fight one. We ran an enemy out of another country. Then did a full stop and tried the sanctions and diplomacy crap.
I'm so tired of hearing about how we should just nuke the place. I won't even argue about how unhumanitarian that is - but seriously, we set off nukes over there and we will be feeling it over here. Nukes are a last resort. The FINAL resort. You think gas prices are high now, wait to you contaminate the world's largest supply of oil for the next couple of hundred years. In addition, we aren't fighting Iraq - we are fighting terrorists who have come to Iraq. Real hard to destroy their infrastructure when they have none.
One thing I'll give the enemy is that they are smart! They have studied us very well.
- They know how to manipulate our media and our "bleeding heart liberals".
- They have changed elections in Europe.
- They have changed our way of life forever.
- Almost destroyed our economy.
- Caused countless thousands to lose their jobs.
- They have avoided capture and can run their war machine with a camcorder and Al-Jazeera.
- They know that they can do whatever the hell they want with a complete disregard for the Geneva Convention. This is because they are already labeled "terrorists" and they have no official government to take resposibility for their actions.
- They know we still have to follow the Geneva Convention no matter what they do because we are a "civilized" nation with a government who does have to answer to everyone.
- They know that have to create as much chaos as possible right now so John Kerry will have a chance at getting elected. John Kerry is their best chance at being left alone.
BUT IS ANY OF THIS NEW? NO. You name the war, and the above statements fit. Replace Al-Jazeera with the appropriate propaganda machine and John Kerry with the anti-war opponent and you've got a template for every war we have fought.
So my questions to you are:
Why are you surprised?
What made you think that we were going to walk in there and Saddam was going to beg for forgiveness and the terrorists were going to run and hide in a cave and never come out?
What makes you think we aren't gaining ground?
fulmetaljackass
05-03-04, 03:12 PM
I'd like to start this one with a quote from mrbsox, who began this thread: "Maybe I’m dead wrong. Maybe I'm tired of my brothers dying and not making any progress." Well, despite what they show on the news, I know that our military is making progress over there. However....
I will never agree with a war on foreign soil as long as we are losing the war on political correctness here at home.
If you're a liberal, go ahead and call me a racist pig and then F&#* OFF!!!!, but this racial profiling thing really gets under my skin. Who took over the American Embassy in Iran in '79? Muslim extremists of Middle Eastern descent. Who hijacked the Achille Lauro? See above. Who bombed the Marine barracks in Beirut? Yep, you guessed it. Who attacked the World Trade Center....TWICE, and killed 3,000 people when they got their second crack at it?
I'm not saying this is a reason to just boot people from the Middle East out of our country. I've had a few friends from that neck of the woods since I've been in college. I DO NOT condemn or automatically stereotype people because of ethnicity. I do not believe the actions of a few should color the opinion we have about the whole, but read the paragraph above this one. Are we seeing a pattern here?
Life isn't pretty. Ugly things happen, and because of the things I've seen in my short life, I feel that sometimes equal ugliness must be the reaction. People say that when we put Japanese in camps after the attack on Pearl Harbor is a "black" period in our history. It wasn't in my junior high, high school, or college history textbooks, and I was an adult before I even found out such a thing happenes. I don't think it was wrong, though.
What I think is wrong is what happened during the months following the WTC attacks in 2001. Anthrax was being sent through the mail and infecting people, all because the politically correct general public didn't want to violate the "civil rights" of certain peoples. What about the civil rights of the people who were infected and died as a result? The dead don't have civil rights. We violated their civil rights by allowing them to truly fall victim to political correctness.
What I think is wrong is having to overhear a conversation involving a man who had to make a business trip and was delayed at the airport because the security personnel were checking the whites, the blacks, the asians, the hispanics, everyone except an arabic woman in traditional garb who they let walk right on through because they didn't want to be guilty of racial profiling.
What I think is wrong is what happened last week when I took my best friend to the airport, a brand new U.S. Marine bound for the School of Infantry, and security made him unlock his seabag so they could go through it because I was carrying it for him. I'd lay down every d@mn dollar I have in a bet that that would not have happened to a Middle Easterner because airport security would not want to be guilty of racial profiling.
Don't get me wrong. I support our troops with every cell of my beating AMERICAN heart, but I hold firmly the belief that we would not need to send them to take care of danger outside of our borders (i.e. Afghanistan and Iraq) if we would only take care of the danger inside of our borders.
What makes you think we aren't gaining ground?
Because for a month we have done nothing but fill body bags.
On both sides no doubt, and truly more of theirs than ours. But what is the difference in the news today, and a month ago ??
Deliberate, talk, promise, wait, fill body bags, talk, debate, reject, fill body bags, wait, get promises, wait, fill body bags....
SOMEBODY MAKE A FKn DECISION
I know this is a SMALL portion of Iraq that is hitting the media. I have no doubt that the majority of Iraq is in better shape, happier, and ready for us to give their country back.
I'm not bleeding on the left when I say BRING OUR TROOPS HOME, but bring them home WHEN THEY ARE DONE, and give them the tools to GET DONE !!
FMJ said;
I will never agree with a war on foreign soil as long as we are losing the war on political correctness here at home.
Drop the politics. Politicians have gotten in the way of combat for the last 60 years. Let go of my MARINES, let them do what they are trained to do, which is to put an END to combat action, and worry about the politics later.
SOMEBODY MAKE A FKn DECISION
And if not, then bring 'em home. ALL of 'em. Iraq, Korea, Japan, Germany, Haiti, EVERYWHERE.
SOMEBODY MAKE A FKn DECISION
So we can quit filling body bags.
Terry
usmc4669
05-03-04, 06:25 PM
Drop the politics. Politicians have gotten in the way of combat for the last 60 years. Let go of my MARINES, let them do what they are trained to do, which is to put an END to combat action, and worry about the politics later.
So we can quit filling body bags.
I would like for the Politicians to have to don the body armor, pick up the weapon, attack the enemy, and let the Military run this war, then send the Politicians back home in BODY BAGS.[/quote]
mrbsox -
Stop watching "FKn" CNN and MSNBC!
The war is not as bad as they portray on the liberal media. There are decisions being made and they have what they need. Read my previous post. It takes time. IT ALWAYS HAS AND IT ALWAYS WILL!
Now - Are we being realistic here or are we pretending?
Cause if we are pretending and the only suggestions people have is let's nuke 'em or lets pull all the troops out from around world and build a million foot wall all around the the U.S. then I will get out my G.I. Joes and play along, too.
If we are being serious and REALISTIC, then I will bring out my "thinking cap" and we can discuss tactics and strategy on how to win this thing.
fulmetaljackass
05-04-04, 11:50 AM
and on top of what USMC4669 just said, not only would I like to see "the Politicians to have to don the body armor, pick up the weapon, attack the enemy, and let the Military run this war, then send the Politicians back home in BODY BAGS.[/quote]" I'd like for them to have to wear the stuff that the military wears rather than the lighter and more effective body armor that our secret service and top government officials are given.
I watch FOX.
I view CNN and MSNBC for feedback and another slant. I read the newspaper, posts in here, and articles from other sites.
Maybe I'm a bit quick on the draw to voice my opinion. I do know that Fallujah is but a small portion of the big picture.
So, maybe I missed to part where we took over the Mosgue and gave it back to the Iraqis (like in Ramadi). Maybe I missed the part where we found the secret stash of weapons that are killing our troops, the IED factories, the strong holds....
We can discuss stuff in here all day, in the barber shop, or over a beer. But until somebody somewhere makes a FKn decision to stop talking to these 'people', it won't change...
IN MY OPINION !!
Terry
Maybe I missed the part where we found the secret stash of weapons that are killing our troops, the IED factories, the strong holds....
Everyday...... Everyday. It happens so much they don't even report it anymore.
As for the mosque, I have no idea. I'd rather them burn it down, but that is a whole 'nother subject.
But until somebody somewhere makes a FKn decision to stop talking to these 'people', it won't change...
Agreed. If it weren't an election year, I'm guessing things would be different.
CPLRapoza
05-04-04, 01:53 PM
Not a bad idea Gunny