View Full Version : This really burns my a**

04-29-04, 11:47 AM
I found this article on espn.com

AMHERST, Mass. -- A University of Massachusetts student has openly criticized Pat Tillman, calling the former NFL player a Rambo-like idiot in the school paper.

The column in question was submitted by graduate student Rene Gonzalez and published Wednesday in the Daily Collegian. It was titled "Pat Tillman is not a hero: he got what was coming to him."

Gonzalez writes that Tillman was a "Rambo" who probably acted out of "nationalist patriotic fantasies." In his own neighborhood in Puerto Rico, according to Gonzalez, Tillman would not have been considered a hero, but a "pendejo," or idiot.

The column drew harsh criticism from many on campus. University president Jack Wilson says the op-ed piece was "disgusting, arrogant and intellectually immature."

Tillman, who gave up his NFL career to join the Army Rangers in 2002, was killed in combat one week ago in Afghanistan. The military announced on Wednesday that he has been posthumously promoted to the rank of corporal and awarded the Purple Heart and Meritorious Service Medal.

"You know he was a real Rambo, who wanted to be in the 'real' thick of things," Gonzalez writes in his column, which is posted on the collegiate paper's Web site. "I could tell he was that type of macho guy, from his scowling, beefy face on the CNN pictures. Well, he got his wish. Even Rambo got shot in the third movie, but in real life, you die as a result of being shot. They should call Pat Tillman's army life 'Rambo 4: Rambo Attempts to Strike Back at His Former Rambo 3 Taliban Friends, and Gets Killed.'"

Gonzalez also says that Tillman's service was not "necessary."

"It wasn't like he was defending the East coast from an invasion of a foreign power. THAT would have been heroic and laudable," Gonzalez writes. "What he did was make himself useful to a foreign invading army, and he paid for it. It's hard to say I have any sympathy for his death because I don't feel like his 'service' was necessary. He wasn't defending me, nor was he defending the Afghani people. He was acting out his macho, patriotic crap and I guess someone with a bigger gun did him in."

In a letter to its readers Thursday, the Daily Collegian says Gonzalez' opinion in no way reflects that of the newspaper's editorial board. A column by one of the editors praising Tillman's sacrifice ran in the paper next to the one by Gonzalez.

"We do not hold back from printing news stories, columns or editorials that may upset our readership -- instead, we seek to both inform and stir debate through our publication," the letter, also posted on the Web site, reads. "Our decision to publish Gonzalez's column -- an opinion piece written by a member of our campus community -- is the only way for us to live up to this ideal."

Tillman will be eulogized at a public memorial service in his hometown of San Jose, Calif., early next week, and funeral arrangements are pending.

The body of Tillman arrived at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware on Monday. His brother, Spc. Kevin Tillman, also a Ranger with the 2nd Battalion of the 75th Ranger Regiment, was expected to accompany the body to the funeral home, Lawrence said.

Tillman was killed in a firefight on a road near Sperah, about 25 miles southwest of a U.S. base at Khost.

After coming under fire, Tillman's patrol got out of their vehicles and gave chase, moving toward the spot of the ambush. Beevers said the fighting was "sustained" and lasted 15-20 minutes.

The Cardinals said they will retire Tillman's No. 40 and name the plaza surrounding the new stadium under construction in suburban Glendale the "Pat Tillman Freedom Plaza."

04-29-04, 12:11 PM
Sgt A.
I join you in the sentiment. This Gonzales character, and I use the term loosely, is off his rocker. Sure he has Freedom of Speech thing, which Tillman and all who died before him helped to give him, but to thrash a dead man for lack of neccesity is ludicrous(sp). How is wanting to serve a macho thing. He was in the NFL for crying out loud. Does it get more macho that that? I had fame and glory from the NFL. He wanted to serve and fight for the freedoms that Gonzalez so enjoys. Did Gonzo serve? And since when is being patriotic crap? Darn it SGT A, this one has me steaming. Did you check out military.com? Lots of Tillman stories there.

04-29-04, 12:13 PM

Haven't checked out military.com but I will


04-29-04, 12:14 PM
I got an email, and two of the top stories are about Cpl Tillman.

04-29-04, 12:22 PM
So who is up in the Mass. area who is going to find this A$$ CLOWN, string him up so we can watch him bleed out. Commie bastard. F%^K!!! I don't know what to say I am so ****ed off at this guy.

04-29-04, 12:33 PM
So, GLB, how do you feel about this? Don't hold back now...

04-29-04, 12:58 PM
Article Link <http://www.dailycollegian.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/04/28/408f27f0591be>

At the bottom of the article, there is a message board for you to give feedback.
For direct contact: Rene L Gonzalez rene@student.umass.edu (413) 253-9639

I would think the area around the emai address, phone, or message board is a free-fire zone by now.

04-29-04, 01:46 PM
The phrase "BLANKET PARTY" springs to mind. But that is something reserved for our own when they screw up. This ingrate guy doesn't deserve that much. A straight up A**-Whoopin' is needed. However, that would only get him notoriety and cult status with the anti-war factions.

Perhaps someone with "expert" computer skills could restructure Mr. Gonzalez's complete electronic history, so he disappears from all his bank accounts and grant subsidies. He would not exist in databases around the world. Erased from life and no longer with us, just like Pat Tillman, but without the honor Tillman earned. And he would still have to exist.

That would be intriguing, indeed.

Semper Fi!

P.S. The website Gunner Mike highlighted is being overrun. I couldn't get on because of "high traffic". :)

04-29-04, 01:55 PM

You are right about the "free fire zone". I've tried multiple time to get on and the server requests that I come back later do to the kigh traffic. So I take it that this is a legit story?



8th&I Marine
04-29-04, 01:59 PM
I think we should let cpl. Tillmans brother have first wack at that idiot. Then string them up and let em bleed out

04-29-04, 02:02 PM
I did find the Maggot's Web page and another email address for him

You may fire the emails when ready.

04-29-04, 02:04 PM
Hotmail probabaly cut it of by now - WTF - I going to say HI

Hee Hee


04-29-04, 02:05 PM
:D (S***-eating grin)

a copy of the text sent to Pendejo Gonzalez

Hey Gonzalez!

I got the word to check out your op-ed article in Wednesday's University of
Massachusetts Daily Collegian. Not very imaginative are you? Not very
bright either. People like you make fighting for this country a real
challenge for American servicemen. It is frustrating, I assure you, when we
servicemen consider the reactions from some people like yourself, who
benefit from our sacrifice. You schmuck!

You can thank a great many dead men, including Pat Tillman, for your
relative safety, which you enjoy as you talk trash about him, you feckless
dirtbag. You must also hate all the previous men and women who died for
America as well, including those from Puerto Rico. You are not worthy of
higher education, since it will obviously be wasted in anti-American
pursuits if you ever grow up.

You have no honor, to disrespect our dead as you have. If any in your
family ever died in service to this nation, then you have dishonored them
with your trashtalk. You and all your family should be tossed out of all
United States of America territories and possessions, to become personas
non-grata, and never be allowed within our borders ever again. Try living
in France, or Germany, or Russia, if you don't like what we stand for.
Better yet, move to Iran. I'm sure they would find a use for someone of
your inclinations.

Without respect,
Javier Cascos
Sgt., USMC

04-29-04, 02:13 PM

Rene Gonzalez
Major: African-American Music and Jazz Studies
Class of: 2001

Nationality: Puerto Rican

More Information
Rene Gonzalez is a freshman at the University, and is studying music to perform as a career. He is currently the President of the AHORA organization, the oldest Latino organization on-campus. He has been a major help in designing the BCP webpages (as well as others) for the BCP. Rene comes from Rio Piedras, Puerto Rico.

Super Dave
04-29-04, 02:21 PM
Rene is in dire need of being BIT*H-Slapped!!

04-29-04, 02:32 PM
GunnerMike, I have tried to get through to this insensitive pukes email but they cant be delivered. All that I got at the phone number was a busy signal so I will unload my 40mm HE tongue on paper and mail to the university. I have not been this hot in decades. He should be Osama's press secretary.

Semper Fi

04-29-04, 02:44 PM
AMHERST, Mass. (AP) -- A University of Massachusetts graduate student who wrote a campus newspaper column saying former NFL player Pat Tillman was not a hero for being killed while fighting in Afghanistan was sharply criticized Thursday by the school's president.

UMass president Jack Wilson issued a statement saying Rene Gonzalez' comments in The Daily Collegian "are a disgusting, arrogant and intellectually immature attack on a human being who died in service to his country."

In his column, which ran Wednesday on the opinion page and was posted on the newspaper's Web site, Gonzalez called the former Arizona Cardinals safety a "G.I. Joe guy who got what was coming to him."

"That was not heroism," Gonzalez wrote. "It was prophetic idiocy."

His column also criticizes America's military response to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

Tillman, the San Jose, Calif., native who gave up his NFL career to join the Army Rangers in 2002, was killed in combat April 22 in Afghanistan.

While recognizing Gonzalez' right to free speech, Wilson said the student owes Tillman a "debt of gratitude," and said he should apologize to Tillman's friends and family.

Gonzalez did not respond to telephone and e-mail messages left Thursday by The Associated Press.

Go back to PR Gonzo!

04-29-04, 02:56 PM
Thanks for the picture, GunnerMike. Now I can have a custom dartboard target sleeve made.
This a**hole gives all hispanics a bad name.
Another name for him would be "Tonto sin huevos", or 'dummy without ba**s'.

04-29-04, 02:59 PM
that kid looks like about 150 pounds of A$$ bandit!.

Look, I have alway's considered myself very patriotic, and I did my years in the Corps. But, offer me around a million a year to play in the NFL? I woulda NEVER been in. NEVER. In my mind the fact that TIllman served and died did not make him any different than 1000 heros before him. Not sure if here is the right word for anyone in the military really. They are men who have honor, integrity and do what either they believe or what they MUST. If that makes a person a hero, then fine. they are heros. I never wanted to be a hero, I wanted to servemy fellow man in the only way i knew how.

In my mind what Made Tillman a great man, was that hegave up a career that almost NO ONE would give up to do what he did. He had REAL beliefs, and he fought and died for them. That makes hime great in MY mind anyway.


(anyone got a ruler? ) :evilgrin:

04-29-04, 03:32 PM
All Hands on Deck!
Further investigation shows this scumbag is a communist, or a marxist, or both.
A search brought up the following website in response to keywords
[ "Rene Gonzalez"and"University of Massachusetts"and"AHORA" ]

There is an HTML version available from the same search result.

He is in a portion concerning the Univ. of Mass. and Union rights. He is using Music as his "major", while he becomes a professional political agitator. He has screwed up and blown his cover now. Some of the other contributors to this website have bylines from Havana. I wonder if this kid smokes Cuban Cigars? He is interviewed in the article, and sounds like the old-style Castro dunce brain, "... American imperialist ...blah, blah, blah...".

04-29-04, 03:42 PM
Ya gotta love Marines. No truer friend and no greater enemy than a US Marine.!:marine:

Awesome research folks, just friggin' awesome!:marine:

04-29-04, 04:10 PM
Gonzalez also says that Tillman's service was not "necessary.[/b]"

Deport him to Gitmo

04-29-04, 05:04 PM
pull his green card & ship his a** back to the island--imagine this boob is going to a state school & my tax dollars are helping to pay for it----taxachusetts,soon to be known as the Gay State--home of teddy,yes thats right,Teddy fat ass,the drunk & john kerry___the other half of the hemeroid twins---the school web-site is experiencing heavy traffic--cant get through to the newspaper---wonder why---

04-29-04, 05:06 PM
How bout some jazz studies on those big a** teeth!!!!!!!!!!!!!

04-29-04, 08:15 PM
rene gonzalez is like I read on a forum the other day..........

If it looks, smells, and taste like sh!t, it for sure must be sh!t !!!

if you notice I spelled this piece of sh!ts name with small letters, he don't deserve capitals........

I just wish he had balls big enough to come to DC on Memorial day during Rolling Thunder and make some of his silly a s s statements.


Toby M
04-29-04, 08:27 PM
I sent him an e-mail and it looks like the message got thru but I don't expect an answer. Cowards like him can only hide behind the very Constitutional rights that Cpl. Tillman died to protect. The arony or ironies...

04-29-04, 09:29 PM
Are we finish crucifying this poor soul. Even I don't condone what he said, still it was his right to say what he did. Remember the 1st amendment? Freedom of speech brothers, sisters and every one else on the thread. Then you also have the freedom of speech to reply as you have, that what makes this country of our so great.

04-29-04, 09:55 PM
It burns my ass that our brothers gave their lives so this pussy can enjoy free speech.

I think, even at my age, I could put an ass-whooping on this ****head that would impress the hell out of my brothers.

Apparently, "RENE" doesn't know the meaning of freedom!!!!!!

04-29-04, 11:29 PM

No , idon't believe this"poor soul" will ever heat the end of it. Yes, we all have the right of free speech, and I support it. But in my humble opinion, no one with any real heart would trounce on a man like Tillman for only following his beliefs. That's just wrong. Common courtesy should tell people when to keep their mouths shut, and what not to say. Although, in this day and age, I am afraid that "common courtesy" is no longer very common.

On a side note about freedom of speech, is flag burning still considered a form of freedom of speech? I lost track of that one a while back. and if it IS still protected by the 1st amandment, then I PERSONALLY think it needs to be re-worked.

I never could stand people who use the freedoms others have bought with blood to critisize the ones who gave them the freedom in the first place.

Sometimes I just think we have gone wrong somehwere. Not sure where, but hell, I don't know, lost track now,.

Anyway, Freedom of speech is fine i guess, but know what? ( and I have done this before) Go ahead and practice your freedom by talking during the Star Spangled Banner within arms distance of me, and I will ask you once to be quiet. Second time, I am slapping you in the head. ( not trying to be tough or anything, but there are some things that just get to a guy on occasion, and that is one of mine)

OH! and USMC4669? no this whole post wasn't direccted at you, just the first line or two. no offense to anyone here intended by this.

04-29-04, 11:49 PM
rene gonzalez will get what coming sooner than he expects.
Cpl Pat Tillman US Army has a brother in the Army.
Than there several NFL players that might want to right this wrong.
Must correct one statement;
pull his green card & ship his a** back to the island...Puerto Rican nationals are not required to get a green card because they're part of a commonwealth of the United States.
rene gonzalez does a great injustice to many men from Puerto Rico, who have paid the price in full, so he can make an idiot of himself.
I'm trying to be civil, when I'm boiling at the insensity of this axxhole.
One thing is for certain, there more rene's out there...who are cheering the deaths of their follow American's.
We come full circle, as much as I hate to say it, during Vietnam, we had to burn all our mail instead of throwing it away.
Because some would harvest the return address.
Later in the middle of night back here someone would get a call, who message was they hope that the serviceman or woman in Vietnam would "get what they had coming."
Sounds familar?
rene gonzalez message about Cpl Pat Tillman US Army, who will always be the better man than this scumbag...

Semper Fidelis

04-30-04, 07:27 AM
I still have not seen nor heard that gonzo served in the military. Any takers on that question?

04-30-04, 08:36 AM
This pencil neck geek can pack his trash and go back to Puerto Rico. He would not be missed at all !!!!!!

04-30-04, 08:45 AM
Originally posted by usmc4669
Are we finish crucifying this poor soul. Even I don't condone what he said, still it was his right to say what he did. Remember the 1st amendment? Freedom of speech brothers, sisters and every one else on the thread. Then you also have the freedom of speech to reply as you have, that what makes this country of our so great.

I think I'd just have to tell him, "Cross your feet because Supply is short of nails!"

04-30-04, 08:47 AM
Seems we have these types crawl out of the slime when they can make some waves. He wouldn't have the backbone to confront a real serviceman with this garbage, he hides behind his computer.I get a kick out of his major, jazz studies? I always thought you leearned that kind of music by taking part.
Oh well, guess I'm just p-ssed off at the little creep.

04-30-04, 09:14 AM
Some further examples of Rene's 1st Amendment usage:


Puerto Rican graduate student Rene Gonzalez, a leader in the African, Latino/a, Asian American, Native American and Arab American (ALAANA) organization, summed up the most recent U.S. strategy: “It’s part of a domestic component to an imperial foreign policy.”Rene Gonzalez of the university's Student Government Association's ALANA caucus spoke at the event. He said most Americans have a feeling that laws that make a totalitarian society would not happen in the United States, but his disdain toward the government was clear.


Gonzalez compared the type of government in the United States to fascism. He also said that the little opposition of U.S. citizens to the policies of President Bush is not dissimilar to the rise of Adolf Hitler in the years prior to World War II.

"In Germany, the [support of Hitler] happened first with little things. Then they had a politician with the unquestioning support of his people," he said. "That's what fear in a conformist nation does. That's what's happening [in the United States] today."

04-30-04, 09:23 AM
The last time I noticed there are not any fences or gates to keep this slime ball here if it's that bad then leave. No one is hold a gun to his head to stay here.

04-30-04, 09:27 AM
Unfortunately, I cannot respond to the various emails and phone calls I've
received. It has been very disconcerting to receive death threats and so much
hatred. I hope this email clarifies my views better. Please take this as an
honest attempt from someone trying to right a wrong misunderstanding.

Clearing up the misconceptions in the Pat Tillman Article

I wrote an article entitled "Patrick Tillman is not a hero", in which I tried
to contradict the American society viewpoint that Pat Tillman was a hero for his
service in Afghanistan. I disagree with the conflicts that he took place in,
but that's not why I did not think he was a hero. I thought (and still think)
that there is an unhealthy tendency in the American public to knee-jerk into
hero worship, but instead of persuading people to look at this issue, I just
inflamed the hero worship and the situation. Re-reading my words, I did come to
the conclusion that my words were inflammatory and tainted the meaning of my
article. I do admit I was partly sarcastic on an issue that seems to be dear to
a lot of people. I did not write my words with sufficient "political
correctness" to make them palatable. For the insensitivity, I apologize.

I mean no disrespect to the family of Patrick Tillman, and I would be very
distraught to learn they were hurt by my comments. That was not my intent. My
intent was to open up a debate on whether or not serving in the U.S. military is
a de facto reason for considering someone a hero. I've been quite bothered by
the continued calling of U.S. soldiers as "heroes", especially in conflicts that
I find nothing to be proud of.

Regardless of that, I stated clearly that if Pat Tillman had been defending the
East coast of the United States from invasion, I would have thought his service
to be heroic and laudable. I think the same of soldiers who fought in conflicts
like World War II. However, I'm not proud of dishonorable American
interventions throughout history (Vietnam, Bay of Pigs, Puerto Rico, Nicaragua,
Haiti, Grenada, Panama, The Phillippines, Iraq 2004), and I adamantly refuse to
consider soldiers in those wars, heroes. Every American intervention and every
American soldier's action is not automatically heroic, and that was my point.
Each case must be examined critically, and I don't feel the American public is
undertaking any critical examination of the legitimacy of the conflicts in
Afghanistan and Iraq, nor the legitimacy of the actions of the troops there.

I did learn one lesson, though: there is freedom of speech in this country, but
not much toleration for its expression. Freedom of speech exists only for those
that parrot the "party line". For those that even peep a dissent, only scorn is
awaiting them.

I hope this letter clears up the misconceptions that have arisen. My criticism
was not for Patrick Tillman (who may have been the most honorable man alive) or
his family, or even soldiers serving the United States today. It is to the
society back home, which seems to be unable to distinguish between honorable
American interventions and honorable American soldiers, and soldiers who served
in dishonorable interventions and, therefore, dishonored themselves. And, for
the reasons outlined above, I cannot support troops that have dishonored
themselves by serving in a dishonorable war, and much less consider them heroes.

Rene L. Gonzalez Berrios, M.A.
Political Science / University of Massachusetts

Kurt Stover
04-30-04, 09:42 AM
Yeah, and I have the right to go into an all Tejano bar in South Dallas and drink a beer, but you know what, I don't, cause I know better. Some people need to use their head for more than just a hat rack.

04-30-04, 09:48 AM
HardJedi, MillRatUSMC

Now we have two Marines who knows how to reply to a thread. They write with common sense, they think before putting down a lot of meaningless words, I salute you HardJedi and MillRatUSMC.

04-30-04, 09:55 AM
So Gonzales cannot support troops that are fighting a "dishonorable war" to use his words. Does he not realize these troops are not the reason we are in the war. These troops are doing thier jobs. The president is the one who put them in the conflicts they were involved in, be it Bay of Pigs, or Iraq 2004. BTW it was 2003 when they went...smart guy, that Rene. So he is not happy with the American Government or how things are run? Did he even vote? That is how he can get some input on how this country is run. What is his idea of heroic? Getting across the street in San Juan without being shot? Or stating blatent insults on someone who served his country and died?

04-30-04, 09:58 AM
Mind you, I am not thrashing the President, either, merely making a point that Gonzales is blaming the troops for being involved. That is what I took out of his "apology".

04-30-04, 10:25 AM
posted by GunnerMike

Everyone should read this.


As for International students, if they want to get their education in this country then be willing to pay the price, LEAVE NO CHILD BEHIND, is only for those who are Americans Citizens, not the whole d*mn world.

04-30-04, 11:15 AM
Like another Marine on this site told me.....
If you don't like the thread, or how people are responding.
Stay off of it and qute your bi#$hing

04-30-04, 12:55 PM
Gunner Mike
Thanks for posting the "whining apology" from R. Gonzalez-Berrios, M.A. It is interesting to see him use our laws where he benefits, but deny them where he is called to account and held responsible for his actions.

No one set him up in a judge's seat and told him to pass sentence upon Americans serving in foreign lands. What he ruled is that for us to fight our enemies, they have to be invaders teeming ashore on our coasts and crossing our landlocked borders. We are supposed to suffer before we are to act. I don't see a great deal of intelligence in that conclusion.

If you see a man's fist coming toward your face, are you supposed to stand there with your hands down waiting for the knuckles to contact your nose? No! You would parry with one arm, while returning a fist with the other. The object is to keep damage to yourself down to a minimum, and knockout your attacker.

Gonzalez is an unthinking academic on his way to professional political activism as a career. I see no difference between his comments and those made many years ago by Jane Fonda. She claimed the First Amendment and others as her shield from trial and prison. She never served a day. He will probably never have to stand up and trade fists for his beliefs either. He would expect someone, like Pat Tillman, to do it in his stead as part of his "rights".

His apology is for causing heat to come down upon himself, not for his ideology which generated that heat. It is the same tactic used by Fonda, and Kerry, and other socialistic thinkers. Apologize for the effect, not the cause. That way, you remain "true" to your intellectual underpinnings, while appearing to be contrite and asking for forgiveness of something that became a hindering aftereffect. Your stance doesn't change, but the AUDIENCE doesn't percieve that. They would think you have changed when you haven't. It is a well used plan in the political playbook.

The world has turned upside down, and the blood is rushing to my head. It makes me wonder if the initials "M.A." behind Gonzalez-Berrios' name stand for Musical A**hole. It is also interesting to note that his "major" has shifted from [ Music ], as shown by his bio on his website, to [ Political Science ], as used under his closing "signature" at the bottom of his apology.

That is how I see it.
Semper Fi!