Worst president in history?

[enviro]

Some of this may be a rehash, but still good enough to post.

There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during the month of January..... in the fair city of Detroit (Michigan) there were 35 murders in the month of January. That's one American city folks, about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq!

Worst president in history? The following appeared in the Durham, NC local paper as a letter to the editor.

Liberals claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war. They complain about his prosecution of it. One liberal recently claimed Bush was the worst president in U.S. history. Let's clear up one point: We didn't start the war on terror. Try to remember, it was started by terrorists BEFORE 9/11.

Let's look at the "worst" president and mismanagement claims.

FDR led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.

Truman finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,333 per year.

John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us. I think history might show Eisenhower committed the troops and Kennedy was honoring that commitment.

Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year.

Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent, Bosnia never attacked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.

In the two years since terrorists attacked us, President Bush has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Lybia, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people. We lost 600 soldiers, an average of 300 a year. Bush did all this abroad while not allowing another terrorist attack at home.

Worst president in history? Come on!

The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but... It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51 day operation.

We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.

It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Teddy Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick.

It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in Florida!!!!

[namgrunt]

Good points, enviro.

Living in a suburb near the great City of Detroit, I agree with the kill rate you pointed out. I recall on one day recently, we had EIGHT shootings, in different sectors of the city and suburbs. Its enough to make a guy start pricing body armor.

The worse president I can think of, personal opinion, was the previous one, W.J. Clinton. He allowed his WIFE to handle government planning (chaired the secretive Health Care Commission), despite the fact she was never voted into office until after they left the White House.

[USMC-FO]

Does anyone besides me find it more than a bit unsettleing that we can sit here and rationalize a battle death in Iraq with the body count in Detroit? Let alone the tie in to WW2, VN etc......What point is being made here??

Look I voted for Bush...I may well vote for him again--but I have more that an queasy feeling that we've been scammed here by being in Iraq with too few troops and a really fuzzy explanation as to why our troops are dieing in that dump.

I would also argue that Iraq and Afanistan are "liberated"

Anyway my comment for "worst" president would be Coolidge...not that anyone really cares.

[namgrunt]

USMC-FO:

Any battle death is not good, and difficult to rationalize, but they do happen. I believe the comparison is made to show the threat factor is the same, between Iraq and Detroit, to be killed. At least in Iraq, our men and women are allowed to carry around weapons to counter attacks which might be launched against them. In Detroit, it is not an easy thing to get a carry-concealed permit for Wayne County. People still get killed. Dead is dead. I know, I live here (Greater Detroit Area).

Good nomination for worst President; Calvin Coolidge.

[enviro]

One point being made is that the anti-war / anti-Bush folks don't scream crap the domestic murders that happen everyday. It's pure partisan. Democrats don't scream about it because it happens in their home districts.

Another point is that many of our "Greatest" presidents have done far worse to get this country involved in conflict than Bush, yet partisan politics here again will ignore this.

Those early wars weren't mine to experince. I can only speak for Iraq and Afghanistan. Those places are cesspools of terrorism and State sponsored hatred. Hatred that has manifested itself into action on our soil and assets here and abroad.

I say it's about damn time we take the battle to their doorstep. I sure don't want it in my home neighborhhod. For too many years, their actions have gone unanswered. This has given them a confidence boost.

Both countries supported terrorism physically and financially. For that, we finally have an answer. We will do everything in our power to ensure the complete annihilation of that ability. If you let that "dump" continue to grow, it'll be tougher to destroy down the road. Have you ever let your grass grow in the summer for a month and then try to mow it? It's a bi*ch, ain't it?

As far as liberation goes, if you were in a position to judge firsthand the progress of the United States from 1776 to about 1876, you would probably doubt we were ever liberated. Lawlessness, poor governments, lack of services, civil war, etc. Sound familiar? Anyone who thought they would be thriving nations after just one year probably believes that John Kerry will bring world peace and tranquility.

And from a military historian's point of view, we are learning a new game here. Compared historically to other conflicts, our learning is a lot faster. We are getting better.

As far as the morale goes, most of us feel that every death just ****es us off even more and strengthens our desire to kill terrorism and those who sponsor it. WHO's NEXT?

[vfm]

The point that is very disturbing is that we didn't go into this war without the blessing of both democrats and republicans in the Senate and the House. However the democrats are turning this into a political agenda and placing the blame on our Commander and Chief. With the news media's spin on this they use the rhetoric as foreign propoganda against the USA.
Semper Fi!!!
vfm

[enviro]

Does anyone besides me feel that when Al Gore "lost" the election, that the Democrats got together and said they are going to do everything to destroy the Bush Whitehouse even if it means a full stop on the nation's business?

It seems as if nothing our President does is right by them no matter how obviously right it is.

Sadly, the Republicans have had to play dirty now, too. Nothing in congress is getting done. (I mean worse than usual)

I wonder what would happen if a super huge movement to recall all of congress took place and they faced what Gov. Gray Davis of California did. I say threaten to recall all of them and watch them scramble!

Update: Unfortunately, as I have just learned, recall of congress is not provided for in the constitution. :mad:

[usmc4669]

USMC-FO replied


Does anyone besides me find it more than a bit unsettling that we can sit here and rationalize a battle death in Iraq with the body count in Detroit? Let alone the tie in to WW2, VN etc......What point is being made here??
Look I voted for Bush...I may well vote for him again--but I have more that an queasy feeling that we've been scammed here by being in Iraq with too few troops and a really fuzzy explanation as to why our troops are dieing in that dump.
I would also argue that Iraq and Afghanistan are "liberated"
Anyway my comment for "worst" president would be Coolidge...not that anyone really cares.

USMC FO, I think what enviro was saying was in response to "One liberal recently claimed Bush was the worst president in U.S. history." He was comparing FDR, World War II' Truman, Korea, John F. Kennedy and Johnson, Vietnam, Bill Clinton, war in Bosnia. The only ones that he left out was, Ronald Ragan, Panama, George H. Bush, Gulf War and I know that they were some other small conflicts. Yes "worst" president could have been Coolidge"...

Now John F. Kerry said that he has already put together a team of Lawyers to contest any voting that the democrats feels didn't go to them, that will want a recount like the one in FL. I saw this on FOX News today.

[namgrunt]

Enviro:

I think that was the democratic platform all along. Delay, discredit, demean, and demogogue have been operative words since before Bush's administration. I believe it began as a reaction to the constant call from the Republican side for impeachment of the previous president (Yet another reason for his "worst President" nomination by me). Whoever was elected, if not from the Democrat party, would be accorded the same treatment.

The Democrat Party leadership have launched a "Night of the Living Dead" campaign against Republicans in leadership positions. If they are alive, kill and eat their credibility, rendering them "harmless". Example being Sen. Trent Lott, who, despite profuse apologies, was "forced" from his leadership position for favorable comments about Sen. Strom Thurmond at a function. Yet, not even a month ago, Sen. Chris Dodd, made similar positive comments about Sen. Robert Byrd, the old KKK Grand Dragon in hiding. What happened to Dodd? NOTHING!

[USMC-FO]

Marines:

I understood the point "Enviro" was making but thanks for the 411 back I was being retorical. I was, and will remain, troubled however with the linkage and the rationale outlined.

Also Enviro I am glad Gore lost I do shudder to think were we would be if he had actually been sitting in the "Boss Seat" vs Bush. Oh...we can recall congress--called an election ... :-)

I guess what I would like to hear from Bush is that we're in Iraq killing and dieing there so we DON'T have to do it in our own yard. I would buy into that pretty easily and appreciate the honesty vs all the "chum" that gets tossed out currently. Might also make me feel better if Bush could actually answer a question and speak a clear and consise sentence too....but that's just me.

Semper Fi all back to work.....

[usmc4669]

USMC-FO


I guess what I would like to hear from Bush is that we're in Iraq killing and dieing there so we DON'T have to do it in our own yard. I would buy into that pretty easily and appreciate the honesty vs all the "chum" that gets tossed out currently. Might also make me feel better if Bush could actually answer a question and speak a clear and consise sentence too....but that's just me.

I guess what I would like to hear from Bush is that we're in Iraq killing and dieing there so we DON'T have to do it in our own yard. I think that he said that, go after them before they can come over here after us, now again I could be wrong and if I am someone will correct me. Hope that I'm not sounding SARCASTIC again.

Now you have to remember that G.W was raised in TX, no one raised in Tx actually answer a question and speak a clear and consise sentence, that just the way Texans are. Then the ones who were raised in MA seems to have the same problem, don't they?

[ivalis]

Bush II isn't the worse........yet.

[namgrunt]

We won't have any new subject for comparison until 2008. :D

[cjwright90]

Here is what I have to say about presidents and deployments:
"Timely disbursements to prepare for danger frequently prevent much greater disbursements to repel it."

George Washington

Farewell Address, 17 September 1796

[usmc4669]

Here is what I have to say about presidents and deployments:
"Timely disbursements to prepare for danger frequently prevent much greater disbursements to repel it."
George Washington
Farewell Address, 17 September 1796

What you are saying is that Washington was a good President?



Report this post t

[cjwright90]

I mereley tied the presidents thing to the deployments thing. I was not around when he was, and only have history books to learn from on his capabilities as General or President. I just think that the people complaining about out near 700 troops killed in Iraq are not seeing the whole picture. Sad, true that any of our brothers and sisters die over there on foriegn soil, but when you think of it: 700 +/- in Iraq. 300+/- on September 11th, 2001. GW said it a while back, and I am paraphrasing here: that sponsors of terrorism are as bad as the terrorists themselves. I whole heartedly believe that.

[cjwright90]

make that 3000

[usmc4669]

I mereley tied the presidents thing to the deployments thing. I was not around when he was, and only have history books to learn from on his capabilities as General or President. I just think that the people complaining about out near 700 troops killed in Iraq are not seeing the whole picture. Sad, true that any of our brothers and sisters die over there on foriegn soil, but when you think of it: 700 +/- in Iraq. 3000+/- on September 11th, 2001. GW said it a while back, and I am paraphrasing here: that sponsors of terrorism are as bad as the terrorists themselves. I whole heartedly believe that.


I can't remember when we had a perfect President, Then I didn't know Coolidge or as you say Washington, also I didn't know Lincoln, Taft, Teddy Roosevelt, hell what difference does it make? The worst President may be in the future, could be John F. Kerry, Hillary Rodham Clinton, Colon Powell, Jeb Bush, who knows who will be the worst President, you don't, I don't. If he is a Democratic President them to the Republicans he will be a bad President, if he is a Republican President then he will be a bad President to the Democrats. If he is a Independent President then he will be a bad President to the Democrats and the Republicans. That seems to be our system today, our parties fights between them selves even to better their own prosisitions. I think that all Presidents has some good ideas, even Bill Clinton who I despised with a passion for his morals, broken zipper. Has Bush been the perfect President? No way, would Gore been any better, we will never know will we. Should we have attacked Iraq, isn't it a little late to even think about it? Can we pull out now and save face? No way that I can see, unless some of the other European Nations come in to help, you know France, Germany, Russia, Spain stay there and help, We will survive, it may take awhile and more of our troops and when it's over we should stand up straight and look the world straight in the eye and say screw with us and we will come after you.


No one have to agree with me this is just my opinion. My freedom of speech.

[cjwright90]

No problemo. I value your opinions as much as you do. I also agree with alot of what you said this last post. There are some things that all the presidents have done or said, that were good. Same for bad. I do not like everything GW does or says, nor WJ Clinton. I like our freedoms, speech included. Please do not think I was trashing anyone.

[usmc4669]

cjwright90



Please do not think I was trashing anyone.

Never entered my mind

[cjwright90]

I like Texans, they speak thier mind. Don't know where Abilene is, though.

[usmc4669]

cjwright90


I like Texans, they speak thier mind. Don't know where Abilene is, though.

Two and a half hours east of Fort Worth on I-20. You must not be a C&R music fan, had a song written about Abilene a few years back, Abilene.

[arzach]

Quoting Enviro:

"
Truman finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,333 per year.

John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us. I think history might show Eisenhower committed the troops and Kennedy was honoring that commitment."
________________________________________________
Just wanta clear a few issues up here Enviro:

[arzach]

Q!uoted by Enviro:
"FDR led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.

Truman finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,333 per year.

John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us. I think history might show Eisenhower committed the troops and Kennedy was honoring that commitment."
______________________________________________
Just wanta clear a few points up here enviro...first off, uncle ho was our ally in WWII, after the war ended, the french wanted to 'reclaim' their colony, Ho wanted a free VietNam. Can't blame him, after all, he did help us fight the japs. No one would listen to him, being shut out from the free world he turned to the communists after the french re-occupied the Nam...thus the birth of the Viet Minh. The U.S. under Truman, then sent weapons and helped the french financaly. Diem Dein Phu happened in '54, a mere 9 years after the end of WWII.

In the meantime(1950) North Korea invaded South Korea,,,the U.N. led multi-national force was almost completely U.S. forces. The U.N. got us into that sh!tStorm...it ended a year before the french collapse in the Nam. Ike was president, so VietNam continued with the U.S. in a limited capacity....for a while anyway...build up or better said, 'advisors' were sent in bt Ike, the JFK...then LBJ and greasyhaired macnamara did the major build up...we all know how that turned out...sad part is, we had the war won in '68 after Tet...protestors and the likes of kerry gave the North resolve to continue the fight.

We are still in Bosnia...ya wanna bring up 'quagmire'? Desert Storm was a huge success, but our Boys were hamstrung by the u.n. and could onlt liberate Kuwait, not go after sadman...by the way, I still don't see where we were fighting for 'oil'.

sadman broke all the articles of the cease fire and over a period of 11/12 years we only rattled a sabre...took many terror hits and did basicly nothing untill 9/11. We have the best trained Military in the world, but that does not mean 'no casualties'...better to fight the slime-balls over there, in one place, than have to hunt them down piecemeal. Dubya goes after the bad guys and gets what....dis-respect, damnation and called a liar....

Ain't gonna say xlinton was the worst, just that he's damn sure the worst one in my liftime,,,dis-respected the office and the White House(even stole the furniture) and has the audacity to show his face in public smiling. Disgusting!

[d c taveapont]

at work today i was told yes. we are fighting for oil. then the person said just wait till nov. and i said why. reply was we will help rebuild iraq. and they will pay us back in oil...then i said can you look into the future. before this person walked off he said wait and watch...?????? tomorrow i'll ask the foreman for the persons name. and i think it might be charles..works for some company selling parts for back hoes and track hoes....:marine:

[arzach]

Well Don, I'm not sure I get your point...we, as a nation, are dependent on oil...anwar isn't tapped yet, supposed ta be a big supply of oil there, puzzled as to why the oil from Alaska now, is going to Japan.

Point is, we don't have to depend on middle eastern oil. I say again, we are not in Iraq fightin' for oil....if the money we invest in the reconstruction of Iraq is paid back in oil...we STILL are not fighting for oil.

I think what you are pointing out, is that the saudis will cut loose of a large quantity of oil the closer to election time....well, no news there, previous Presidents ASKED the saudis to do it..(xlinton and carter come to mind)...Dubya hasn't

S/F
Rick

[d c taveapont]

thats what this fella said. i work for a water system and i know that we buy parts from caterpiller. this is a new guy. we see new guys every year..besides i'm in water treatment not construction.

[Tom D]

THERE IS NO DOUBT IN MY MILITARY OR CIVILIAN MIND THAT CLINTON WAS THE WORST "PRESIDENT" THIS GREAT NATION HAS EVER HAD!!!

[usmc4669]

d c taveapont


[quote]at work today i was told yes. we are fighting for oil. then the person said just wait till nov. and i said why. reply was we will help rebuild iraq. and they will pay us back in oil...then i said can you look into the future. before this person walked off he said wait and watch...??????]/quote]

How much is a barrel of oil worth today on the open market? If we get paid in dollars we will just give it back to them for their oil, so what's the difference. Now if the American people would cut down on using gas so that the price would go down, then we could get more barrels of oil for our money. Are you willing and your friend to cut back on your gas consumption? I doubt it. Was this person a medicine man of your tribe? That may not be the right term to use, but I think that you know what I am trying to ask you d c.

[RONPRICE]

Clinton was the worst followed by Carter.........

[d c taveapont]

Whats with the Medicine Man remark. no. he was a White guy who sells track hoe and back hoe parts, And that wasn't nice about our medicine men...

[kentmitchell]

The guy before Bush was pretty bad, but for my money LBJ was the worst. He screwed up the war in Nam with his micromanaging and he screwed up the country with his Great Society giveaways.
You can point right to the source of our unwed welfare crack mothers--LBJ.

[arzach]

Originally posted by kentmitchell
The guy before Bush was pretty bad, but for my money LBJ was the worst. He screwed up the war in Nam with his micromanaging and he screwed up the country with his Great Society giveaways.
You can point right to the source of our unwed welfare crack mothers--LBJ.

Yeah, him and macnamara...but you need to include the likes of kerry, hanoi jane and the media, esp 'uncle walter', saying after Tet '68 that the war was unwinable....they were back on their heels just waiting for the KO punch...even giap said it..

[usmc4669]

Whats with the Medicine Man remark. no. he was a White guy who sells track hoe and back hoe parts, And that wasn't nice about our medicine men...do you have a problem with native american indians..

Did I say something that upset you d c? Do I have a problem with Native American indian? I don't think so, remember my daughter-In-Law is Native American a Navajo. I love her as if she was my daughter. Please don't put that guilt label on me d c. Just though that he might have been one of you tribe members, sometimes the old saying goes, that they can foretell the future nothing more than that. Darn you sure can get touche.

[d c taveapont]

I did say in my post that it was a person who sells parts. as for being touchie or how ever its spelled. today yes, because a 600 lbs barrel of pho acid which we treat the water with pinned me to the tail gate today. i am a little sore. my knee and ankle. so i'll just sign off .......take care. the mouse:o

[cjwright90]

Could be worse. We could have a tyrannt king or dictator. Glad we don't. Gee dubya (To use someone else's humor) is doing fine by me. I like the fact that he does not leave God out of the picture. Like us Marines, God, Country, Corps. OohRah!

[RONPRICE]

I agree kentmitchel LBJ rates right up there with the worst of them....