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d c taveapont
04-10-04, 06:05 PM
1, Who supplied WMDs to IRAQ, 2, Alright the iraqi people have their freedom saddam is gone, the people of iraq don't care how many of our servicemen die. it seems that they don't want our help...if they did they would point out whos the enemy. right. the thing that i'm P.O. about is WHO supplied the WMD...and hope that some off you Marines know the answer to that question.....:marine:

d c taveapont
04-10-04, 09:39 PM
i guess no one has a answer. thanks...

namgrunt
04-11-04, 02:03 AM
The answer to your question is all the industrialized nations of the world supplied him, including the USA, while we were allied to Hussein. This was when he was kicking Iranian butt, because we couldn't get at them ourselves. He was a surrogate for us in that conflict. So what?

If that is actually the case, we would have some idea of his weapons possession, wouldn't we? Perhaps that was part of the intelligence information used to draw up the threat assessment which the Clinton Administration used for its case against Iraq. The same intell was carried over to the Bush Administration in the early months, while the intell gathering agencies were given transfusions to keep from dying.

What point did you want to make?

Are you suggesting we should pull out of Iraq, and put all our government leaders on trial? Who should we begin with? Carter? Reagan? Bush 41? Clinton? the current President? If we were to do that, then the job wouldn't be complete unless the entire Congress, including all who served in both Houses during the last 27 years, whether in or out of office now, are included in the trials. We would also need to bring in the Supreme Court Justices who served on the Bench since the Carter Administration, for not doing their job.

Where does it end?

tferg78
04-11-04, 03:56 AM
I agree with Namgrunt, what point are you trying to make? are you saying that our brothers and sisters in arms died just so we could leave an unfinished job?

usmc4669
04-11-04, 08:34 AM
The United States, Russia, France, Germany, Syria.

d c taveapont
04-11-04, 01:09 PM
A job that i feel that we should not have started. how many more lives must be lost before WE leave iraq, and what will happen after we leave? will iraq revert back to the way that it was, you can bet on that, and it well mark my words, the terrorist will always be hard to find and when we do find them do we attack that country as well, you know as will as I that the terrorist have NO home base or country, we can track afew but not all, you play cards right, will i have and how many times have you bluffed, i say after the july memo the security agency should have bluffed, you never know it could have saved lives,,,,all that i hear is how many men that we have lost, what about the british or the other countries,,and about the WMDs. damn when are we going to learn no matter how many times that we helped we are always suckered in the end.....

namgrunt
04-12-04, 07:40 AM
You're absolutely right, dc. Well, lets get out of it then. What are we hanging around talking about it for? We are WHIPPED! Our tails are between our legs, and there is nothing else to do but run away! Its too terrible to comprehend. The price is too high. Our taxes are too steep.

Lets announce to the world that the USA is unable to stand behind its committments, and cannot follow through once someone bloodies our noses. We must recall all our overseas troops, blow up our bases so they cannot be used by any other power, and sound ''retreat" on the bugle. Close all border crossings, and mine all coastlines and the Great Lakes. We'll show those nasty invaders how we shake and quiver waiting for them to attack us from Canada, or Mexico, or by submarine.

While we are at it, lets burn the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and Bill of Rights, as well as declare perpetual martial law to keep from coming unglued altogether. We will need to keep our huddled masses from revolting against our new national yellow spine stripe.

What utter balderdash! I don't buy it, and am surprised to see such a suggestion on a MARINE website.

mrbsox
04-12-04, 08:16 AM
Has anyone considered the fact that maybe, JUST MAYBE, Bush and Blair are on the inside track to something bigger and better for the rest of the world ??

Naw.... we just listen to the media-hype being pumped into us.

The WMD issue.
Yeah, we helped him get them, as did a few other countries. What was the ultimatium issued to Iraq.... SHOW US THE PROOF that they are gone. That's all. Where are they ??

That's all Saddam had to do, PROVE he didn't have them any more. Did he ??? Could he ???

Everybody yelps that they didn't exist... which d c has pointed out, and we agree.. THEY DID !!

So, where are they ?? That question still lingers. My money is on Lebanon or Syria has them. Why ?? To be used, of course.

And why are we STILL there ?? If we are going to swear allegience to a Constitution that basicly states ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL, then don't we also state that ALL MEN have the right to the pursuit of happiness, a free society, the right to choose, freedom of speech, liberty, the list goes on....

That will require a TERROR free society.

Terry

donesteban
04-12-04, 08:51 AM
having lived in the middle east for four years (early 80's) , you need to know this: arab culture (muslim, christian) understands one thing and one thing only-massive use of force. example: as an elementary school teacher in egypt i often had parents advise me on how to discipline their kids- first, they said, they must FEAR you and second, once they FEAR you they will RESPECT you. why do we treat arab culture as our equals? they do not believe in compromise- to them, compromise is losing. we are polite in our warfare with an enemy that holds no common values with us. where is HARRY S. TRUMAN when you need him? you think harry would have put up with this crap? why are we a superpower, yet not willing to use the force of a superfpower? :marine:

d c taveapont
04-12-04, 10:14 AM
Namgrunt: I am going to let it rest about the WMDs and see how things play out. as far as the Declaration of Independance, Constitution, the Bill of Rights, Brother, i sure do believe in them and what they Stand for, but i hate to say this, here where i live i have been pulled over at night for a so called license plate light out and which it was'nt, my mrs has been pulled over for what the same thing, same excuse, maybe its because we are Native American Indians? some times I am bitter, you see because my service to this Great Nation means nothing to some people....with that said you have a great day. by the way this Nation will never put its tail between its legs as long as we are fighting for a DAMN good reason, and since the call for war is loud lets destroy the country and lose more men and make iraq the 51st state, if were going to war lets do it without worrying about the cost of lives, without truces or cease fires, lets show just how savage a civilized Nation can be,,,,,because thats all that i have read its easier said without family members involved,

namgrunt
04-12-04, 12:39 PM
dc:
You missed my intentionally, absurdly, overblown point. If we turn away here, there will be no standing tall anywhere else again. The "defeat" we would suffer here, would be pointed out and used against our deployment anywhere else for any purpose by our enemies, both external and internal. As a Native American, you should realize this more than most.

Your service was never in doubt, but the words you spoke are weighted with hidden despair and indecision. If trapped and surrounded in battle, this would not be something you would tell your squad or team. It would not keep up their spirits, while waiting to repulse a stronger enemy in the small hours of the darkness. As an NCO, you should know this in your heart. That is my real point.

WMD's be damned. We are there and engaged. You don't turn your back on a proven lunatic holding a knife or gun. We cannot cut and run without expecting the worse conceivable consequences. This is why I painted such an extreme vision of our possible fate. You were in during Vietnam, and should be able to see how that "failure" still creeps into our national psyche when we are hard pressed. It is the favorite turkey being trotted out on the national media TV morning talk shows.

Senator Kennedy used it as a "mantra" to evoke our failure. Do you think you were a failure back then in the late 60s and early 70s? That is what is being portrayed. Convince me I'm not correct on this, Brother, ...please, show me the right path, if there is another. I don't see any alternative but victory.

As for family involvement, you have a son or daughter in service, don't you. What makes you think I cannot fathom those feelings? My family lived through the hell of wondering how I was during both combat tours. They had to deal with the news that I was badly injured, and didn't know whether I would live to come home again, until they saw me with their own eyes, in the Great Lakes Naval Hospital, Illinois. My mother had visibly aged 15 years from the worry over my safety.

I know the cost, Brother, believe me. One cousin joined the Corps, specifically to avenge my injuries. He never got to combat before we stepped down involvement in RVN and he was not needed there. That is what my family went through.

d c taveapont
04-12-04, 02:22 PM
those are words that have risen unfelt feeling that i have long buried. this whole war is tearing us vets apart some are for war others are not. others for J kerry as the new president. others for the PRESIDENT. brother. you just as i knew that when we took that oath to protect our country from all enemys at that time meant war. and we knew what we were getting into. now as i sit back and read the news about what had happened or what its all about. i really wonder is it really worth the live lost. to fight the terrorist YES. but to go to war for WMDs that we helped provide. and brother what ****es me off the most is the so called vets who never went after the V.C. or the N.V.A. day after day or night after night who are calling for war. i even read a post of such a person saying that they wish that they had the chance so they might know how they would have done in a combat situation...i brother am done with this ........the mouse

namgrunt
04-12-04, 03:40 PM
I hope your son or daughter is safe, and returns to you unharmed and victorious, brother.
My prayers cover all Americans and allied forces in this critical time, but especially Marines.
Surprise. Even an old junkyard dog like me knows how to bend my knee and ask the highest Power for help, guidance, and protection.
So Be It!

Semper Fi!

d c taveapont
04-12-04, 11:09 PM
yes. pray is what i was told by another Marine who i was in a verbal tussel with. it was said thats all we do when we can't argue a point. some one quoted GEN R.E.LEE. be glad that we grow weary of war or we will grow fond of it. or something to that effect. which i believe is true.....the mouse