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usmc4669
04-09-04, 11:41 AM
ABCNEWS.com
April 9, 2004,


For many Americans, the images from Iraq playing on television screens around the nation are more than unsettling. They are a cause for worry, and questioning: How long will these attacks go on? And what do they signify? Angel Roberts-Burton, whose 18-year-old brother Tony Roberts was one of at least a dozen Marines killed during this week's violence in Iraq, is among those struggling for answers. Although she says her brother was proud of his service and proud of the Marines' mission, Roberts-Burton, of Randallstown, Md., says her grief has made her start to doubt the U.S. mission in Iraq. She softly posed the questions her family is asking. "What is this accomplishing? Is this turning into another Vietnam? If we're over there actually fighting for freedom, then I can understand. Then I'd know my brother's death didn't go in vain."
Searching for Reasons, These are questions that have been surfacing in conversations across the nation this week. Atavia Fuller, who stopped to talk about her concerns as she walked to work on Chicago's State Street, said she has been upset by more than a week of bad news from Iraq, which started with the death and brutal mutilation of four private contractors, and went on to include deadly fighting to bring those responsible to justice, and a Shiite revolt in several southern cities. "I watch the news," Fuller said. "Every day, somebody's getting killed over there. For no reason, to me." Neely Ciarcia, a young mother in Atlanta, says she knows soldiers fighting in Iraq, and believes President Bush was right to send troops in to liberate Iraq last year. But now, she says, "I just think it's time to go." The escalation of attacks against U.S. troops caught her off guard. "I just feel it's getting dangerous for anyone to be over there that is part of our troops."

Divided Opinions ,But this is an issue on which Americans do seem to be divided, even conflicted. Some who initially opposed U.S. involvement in Iraq worry that retreating now would only make things much worse. Ken Storr, a restaurateur in Vinings, Ga., said he gave a great deal of thought to the U.S. occupation of Iraq and felt that the invasion last year was unwarranted. But now he seems torn. "We've started this thing, and how do you leave it in shambles and walk out of there?" he said. "It's a very hard scenario." There are many across the nation who believe the escalation in violence is a sign that terrorists are convinced they can break U.S. resolve in Iraq. Mark Davis, on his talk show on the Fort Worth-Dallas radio station WBAP, maintained, "They are looking for signs that we may be fraying at the edges, that we may not have the resolve to see this through." Comparisons to Vietnam, Davis maintains, are unwarranted. Iraq is not a nation divided, he says. "The majority of Iraqis," he said on his program, "are glad we're there." And Suzanne Ellington of Atlanta says she is glad, as well, to see that U.S. troops are aggressively going after trouble spots in Iraq. "I believe that terrorism has been festering for decades, and we have simply taken the scab off and we see what's there. We must destroy it or they will destroy us."

A Crucible Defined, What has become evident to all, though, is that bringing democracy to Iraq will require much more of Americans. John Guerrero, shopping in Atlanta, stopped to point out what he learned from his experience as a Vietnam veteran. "The theater of war doesn't create love," he said. "It creates hate. And you can see by what's going on today there's a lot of hate going on, against the American people." The difficulty, Guerrero said, will be to prove to the Iraqis who want democracy that America's primary objective is to help them build one. And he is concerned about how willing and patient Americans will be to pay the price to see that through. "We're not going to do it overnight. We're not going to do it by June. We're not going to do it by next year. It's going to take a decade for them to change."

Sound Off...What do you think? Join the discussion.

namgrunt
04-09-04, 03:00 PM
It is disturbing to hear the sister of KIA Marine Tony Roberts put OIF on the same scale with Vietnam. This is the result of the loose brained comments from such leftwing illuminaries as Sen. Edward M. "Chappaquidick Teddy" Kennedy, and any other dufous liberal who mentions the two events on the same page. They are using the grief and emotions of the families to sway people toward their candidate, Hanoi John F(rog) Kerry, the Ketchup Waffle.

The attempt to recall our psychological defeat in Vietnam, which actually took place here at home, is indicative of the desperation on the liberal candidate's efforts. The fact that this comes from ABC News, doesn't satisfy me that the "facts" are written from an objective point of view. Nationally, the ABC network is one of the staunchest anti-US spin media factories in this nation. News by Mickey Mouse!

The pressure is being increased for us to start equating Vietnam with Operation Iraqi Freedom. I don't buy it.

Thats how I see it.
Semper Fi!

d c taveapont
04-09-04, 06:34 PM
if i may say: just feel what the familys are feeling about this war! is it the right thing to do? you know i keep hearing 30 million iraqis have their FREEDOM, will why don't they help, why!, as you namgrunt i to have served in war, these people don't want freedom, tell me viet-nam was about what? communism, what is iraq about terrorist who don't know one cell from another, right, so just like nam do we kill innocent people who are in the wrong place at the wrong time, if i had lost a brother i to would want a damn good reason for being there,,,,the mouse

greybeard
04-09-04, 07:32 PM
I don't have any thoughts on it. But I have a question:
Wht's in it for ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME? I already have freedom & liberty, but I still want some more stuff. What about pore ol ME?

greybeard
04-09-04, 07:33 PM
Yes, I was being sarcastic.

d c taveapont
04-09-04, 07:56 PM
maybe you'll get a dry oil well plus 1 broken down old camel......the mouse

usmc4669
04-09-04, 08:31 PM
if i may say: just feel what the familys are feeling about this war! is it the right thing to do?

You sound like a Liberal Dick., did you see the Tee Shirt picture that I posted? It is under Don't be a Liberal Dick, check it out.

If Clinton had done his job them maybe we wouldn't be in Iraq.

d c taveapont
04-09-04, 09:04 PM
whoa there Marine, i said that i am neither a democrat or republican, let me put it this way, yep, if people should have done their job in the past and present even W and Ms Rice, at least make an attempt to let the terrorist know that we were on to them, it might have made a difference,,,what did the Corps teach you? if it happened on your watch you were responsible, right, come on think and put your party alliance aside,,,,,,the mouse

namgrunt
04-09-04, 09:46 PM
dct:

I'm not sure what age the Angel Roberts-Burton is, but she cannot have been old enough to have been a rational adult during the Vietnam War. Would she have made the comparison between OIF and Vietnam if she hadn't heard the two linked by Senator Clam Chowderhead Kennedy, the hero of Chappaquidick? Why was no comparison made to Gulf War 1, or Somalia, or Panama, or Bosnia-Hersogovina/Kosovo, for that matter?

More to the point, why was Vietnam touted as the only comparative? Because we RAN from that war, and the world made note of it. Why did we run? Because the American people didn't have the stomach for it, and our enemies succeeded at infiltrating our institutions of higher education. From that point, they turned our young people into "Workers of the United Front against the Capitalist Military/Industrial Complex". We lost the battle here in our streets and our colleges and universities. We lost it to the drug dealers and dope smugglers. We lost our national will.

In the years since then, we recovered our senses, but have had our will to stick it out challenged by all comers. It doesn't help when the news media plays to the fears of the public, just as they did during Vietnam, in order to affect change in policy. The job of the media is supposed to be to provide us both sides of events, and allow us to form our own opinions. It has failed to do that since the idealistic days of early Communism, when too many persons found it popular to be socialists and news reporters at the same time.

We have become accustomed to the news media reporting as they now do. They will tell you what liberals spout over and over again. They will report what conservatives say once or twice, then let it die a quiet death on the last page. The bias shown and touted during Vietnam is being used again to sway our thinking.

Perhaps we should just roll up our sidewalks and close our ports after recalling all our fighting forces from around the world. That would satisfy all the vocal anti-war, "peace at any cost" crowd. That is who knuckleheads like Ted Kennedy speak for. We will end up a fragmented nation without a rudder again, and we will have no recovery this time. The war is upon us here in our own land, as 9/11 illustrated.

Thats how I see it.

P.S. It won't matter what side of the aisle a person is on, liberal or conservative, Democrat or Republican or Independent. When the fahtwas against us are carried out here in the USA, we will all be living and dying as Americans.

d c taveapont
04-09-04, 10:02 PM
well said, but you did imply that i might be a liberal dick which i am not, you served as i have so be it and it goes way past clinton,,,,,,,,the mouse

d c taveapont
04-09-04, 10:10 PM
namgrunt go to this will make you think,

namgrunt
04-09-04, 11:19 PM
dct:

I don't recall implying you might be a liberal dick (not my choice of words) in my earlier posting. There are a couple of guys on this website whom I might call that, but you sure aren't one of them.

There is no reference point in your latest posting here. Go to what? Was there a website you wanted to highlight for me to check out?

usmc4669
04-10-04, 08:52 AM
namgrunt
I don't recall implying you might be a liberal dick (not my choice of words) in my earlier posting. There are a couple of guys on this website whom I might call that, but you sure aren't one of them.

I posted You sound like a Liberal Dick. Didn't say that he was one.

Gunny

d c taveapont
04-10-04, 02:50 PM
sorry that i crossed you up NAMGRUNT, the web site is. http://www.disgraced.org/thanks.shtml frank sure could sing.....the mouse p/s and don't get pi$$ed at me as others have. i only found this by surfing the web.

usmc4669
04-10-04, 03:10 PM
d c taveapont: sorry that i crossed you up NAMGRUNT, the web site is. http://www.disgraced.org/thanks.shtml frank sure could sing.....the mouse p/s and don't get pi$$ed at me as others have. i only found this by surfing the web.

I drop off the shtml and got the web site., also the one that I have posted below will get you to it.

http://www.disgraced.org/

http://www.politrix.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=648

d c taveapont
04-10-04, 04:03 PM
i wonder? did one of our own really shake hands with the devil himself...... yes! America needs to be American again...the mouse