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d c taveapont
04-07-04, 10:50 PM
Now i usually don't swear, but i have to make exceptions, we went to iraq looking for WMDs. and we went to war with iraq and found saddam right, and i think it was premature of the president to say all major combat operations are over. damn were in a war here, were losing some fine Marines, if the rag heads want a war then lets give them a war. just like the nam every thing goes. men.women.children. war is hell when your caught up in it. i was 0351 but i carried a prc-25 and i did medevac a wounded Marine on our night patrol. i also walked point so I do know war first hand and IT sure in the hell hurts when some one that you knew dies. i had shed my tears. and it sure in the hell hurts now. and there had better be a DAMN good reason for this war besides the same old 1 million iraqis have their freedom then why in the hell aren't they doing anything. and is the world better off with out saddam? hell i sure don't miss him or even noticed him before, with that said MARINES pray for all the servicemen at war.......the mouse :mad:

namgrunt
04-08-04, 01:26 AM
Consider Iraq a front on the reality of our involvement in World War Three, the war against Radical Islamic rule. The struggle has gone on for centuries, but has been reheated when Isreal came back into existence. We were fortunate and steered clear of the focus of these knuckleheads for most of our history as a nation. That has changed.

Ever since Marines were killed in Beirut back in 1983, we have been targetted. Because no one recognized that we were involved in a full scale war, we didn't react militarily, but instead as a law enforcement problem. September 11, 2001 changed all of that. The terrorists let it be known that we were no longer safe on this side of the big ponds.

All of the members of the terrorist strike teams were members of one recognizable religion. While all participants of that religion are not terrorists, it is noteworthy that the most violent terrorists belong to it. A study of the belief is necessary if we are to understand why things are going the way they are. One book which may help understand what is happening, is "Onward, Muslim Soldiers", by Robert Spencer. It should not be the only source examined, but it is an informative place to start.

It is the ultimate goal of the Islamic leadership in Iran and other countries to overwhelm the planet and bring it under the rule of the Shariah, or muslim law. The Crusades were fought to force the Moors (muslims) out of the Holy Land, and they failed. That is why westerners are called "Crusaders" by clerics trying to stir up the Middle Eastern populations. The Moors ruled Spain for 800 years before being kicked out, and they still consider it their territory. They want it back, and to add all of Europe. France now has a Muslim population of about 20% or more. That might explain their emnity toward us these past years.

We are engaged in a long haul war, whether we ever went to Iraq or not. Opening up the front in Iraq, keeps the active Jihad fighters from collecting in this country and starting an uprising here. Even if they fail, they can cause damage which will test the resolve of the civilian population here. We can already see the divisions amongst our people, and not just because its a political election year (though that makes it worse).

We, as Marines, need to study our foes, and learn the tactics which have worked for these fanatics in the past. They use what works. We have to learn to beat them to the punch. The war won't go away, even if we leave Iraq and the entire Mid East tomorrow morning. If this nation runs away, it will soon have no place to run to, and still have to confront the Jihadists. We've got to keep our minds clear about what has become necessary.

Thats how I see it.

Semper Fi!

CPLRapoza
04-08-04, 05:16 AM
Sergeant, I am totally with you on that. It's about time we quit all this political bull crap and start playing by their rules. Cause God nows they won't play by ours.

radio relay
04-08-04, 06:30 AM
Well said, NamGrunt!

I spent three years in the Middle East , twenty years ago. Working for the Ministry Of Defense And Aviation, in Saudi Arabia. I was there, when Beirut was was hit, and saw the "sh!t eating" grins on the faces of our "friends" the Saudis, gloating over the misfortune of Americans.

I engaged many of the rag headed a-holes in conversations about their religion, and their world view of islam, and the United States. I talked with people from all over the islamic world, from Harvard educated Saudi military officers, Pakistani labourers, and Palestinian-Americans, Somalis, Sudanis, some Pushtoon Afghanis, and many others. I read the Qur'an, and discused it with Mutawas, and Imams. I really got to know these people, their screwball religion, their culture, and their world view, as well as any foriegn "infidel" can. I came away knowing that the current war is our only option, if we as a nation of free people intend to survive into the future.

They intend to have islam dominate the world. They see a free, largely Christian, United States, as being the primary roadblock to their dreams of world islamic indoctrination, and domination.

This ain't no police action we're in. This is a war of survival of our country, and our culture, and all we hold dear. If more of us don't wake up and "see the light", and stop trying to hamstring GW Bush, at every turn, then one day, not too far off, these left wing, rump ranging, femi-nazi, hedonistic, usefull idiots of the left are going to wake up to the sound of islamic religious police pounding down their doors, and then being dragged into the streets for some "old fashioned" religious persecution. You ain't seen homophobic, sexist, religious hatred, until youve seen "islamic" religious hatred.

"Religion of peace", my a$$! These ragheads are a demonic scurge. Sent by satan, himself. They want to kill us all, and will not stop unless we kill them first!

God bless, our Marines, and all our men and women in uniform who are standing, and dieing for us today, in that trully God Forsaken desert!

SF :marine:

jryanjack
04-08-04, 07:41 AM
I agree that we are in a war for our very survival, however it is not against the whole of Islam, it is against those extremists that seek to bring about their domination of the world via force. The desire of Islam to convert all the world to their religion is no different than the same desire shared by most, if not all, religions.

For us to say that we should go to war with all of Islam because of their desire to convert the world, in my opinion, is totally against the beliefs that this country was founded upon, one of which was freedom of religion. Just because we do not agree with the tenants of a religion does not give us the right to make war upon them. As long as they are going about their business peacefully then we should have no problem with them. If they are able to peacefully convert the whole world to their faith, then more power to them, however, I do not think that this is possible, nor is it possible to do so via force, no matter how strong they are. If we are attacked, we should respond, if we see that we are going to be attacked then we should prevent it, if we know of a country that is even thinking about attacking us, either openly or covertly, we should deal with them.

All that being said, I believe that we are doing the right thing in Iraq, not as a way to steem the tide of Islam, but for the fact that we are bringing freedom to the people of Iraq and by removing the extremists from power.

As radio relay put it, God Bless our Marines! I heard on CNN this morning a quote from an unknown Marine, he was asked by an inbedded reporter while carrying a wounded Marine to the rear if he thought we were winning. This young Marine responded with "We're Marines, we always win." I think that about sums it up.

radio relay
04-08-04, 08:52 AM
Well, while we're so bent on molly coddling islam, and comparing it to other religions of the world, I want to point out one "glaring" difference, vis a vis world conversion.

Other religions preach, and attempt to convert. That means they present the religion, and leave it to the listener to decide whether to convert or not. They can be a pain in the butt at times. However they don't threaten to kill you, if you refuse to believe.

Islam converts at the blade of a sword!..... Big difference!

I am not religious at all. I don't have an axe to grind based on religion. I am merely trying to open your eyes. Read the Adullah Yusef Ali translation of the Holy Qur'an. It has both the Arabic, and English, side by side, in addition to copious footnotes explaining translation. You can't get through one page, much less one sura, without it calling for the death of one non-believer, or another. Specifically calling for the deaths of Christians and Jews over and over again. Islam is a vile, hateful religion. Take it ,or leave it. Like it, or lump it.

We *ARE* at war with islam. Get used to it, or we will die!

SF :marine:

jryanjack
04-08-04, 09:16 AM
To clarify what you are saying, ALL of Islam attempts to convert by the sword, and therefore ALL followers of Islam are our enemies and should be treated as such?

I'm sorry, I cannot subscribe to a policy of genocide, nor do I believe for a moment that every single follower of Islam. I too travelled the Middle East in the 80's and met several followers of Islam and my experiences do not match yours. Granted, I did not purposely seek out and study the religion as deeply as you did, I simply met a few people. I cannot label any large group as all of one thing or another.

25snakeman02
04-08-04, 09:43 AM
Just a Question, How many of the Islam Faith, here in America, has anyone seen in support of our Efforts in Iraq? Just a question, would appreciate and welcome all positive responses. No responses will be left to one's imagination, assumption and pontification.

Snake out

jryanjack
04-08-04, 10:45 AM
Snake,

Honestly, I cannot say that I've seen any Americans of the Islamic faith express support of our efforts in Iraq. However, I also have not seen the opposite either. On a daily basis I do not see much support of our efforts in Iraq from anyone, aside from the odd bumper sticker here or there. There are a few American flags flying, however, they have always been there.

corrupt-one
04-08-04, 11:22 AM
If it was up to me, "which it's probably good it's not" I think we should Nuke the snot out of the holy land so that no one could live there because why should we lose American lives over a Islamic and Jewish war that we got pulled into by some fools who did not learn as children to GET THE FUC* ALONG.

radio relay
04-08-04, 11:51 AM
Ah yes, more hyperbole...

The left's hot button word that's supposed to silence all argument....

"Genocide"

Funny how that word first became trendy when describing what Germany tried to do to the Jews. Now that islamic fundamentalists want to not only commit "genocide" against the Jews, but Americans as well, liberal's tend to be deaf and blind. Oh, the poor, poor muslims. All the little dears are doing is practicing their religion of peace. Living such a hard life in the world. Yadda, yadda, yadda. Here's another hot button word for you to add to you lexicon.... Baloney!

Who in hades is speaking of genocide.... oh yeah, other than the islamic terrorists.

They brought the fight to us. They have been bombing, high jacking, and killing Americans for about three decades now. The first blow was the assination of Bobby Kennedy.

They want to kill us, and our loved ones, for no good reason, other than we don't believe in the same religion. I don't want to kill them all. Only the ones who want to kill us. Heres something the "People Of The Book" (FYI that's people from all three middle eastern, mono-theistic religions) all understand... An Eye For An Eye.

They want to kill us, and do kill us. We kill them too.... Except we kill more of them until they don't have the stomach for it anymore.

If you don't have a stomach for it, then stand aside, or go join them.

I guarantee they won't stop until we are dead, or they are.

Your turn, Sergeant.

SF :marine:

namgrunt
04-08-04, 12:35 PM
jryanjack:

There was a distinction made early in my posting above, concerning Islam. I didn't say ALL Islam is doing this. Please reread my words. I said all the terrorists who participated in the WTC attack were of THAT religion. Prove me wrong, and I'll apologize and retract that statement. You must understand that I don't want to see attacks against innocent people, just because they believe Islam is a religioin of eternal love. I find it difficult that they could be so blind, but that doesn't mean they should be harrassed or killed, especially in this country.

The Bible I read and believe in says the same thing about love, yet many people have been persecuted by others using it as the "authority" for the commission of crimes. I specifically think of the Spanish Inquisition, as well as the Salem "Witch trials" in our own nation. That doesn't change a fundemental fact. We do not understand the mindset of our enemies.

Do you have any idea what the term "dhimmitude" means? What is the Shariah? What laws apply to non-muslims living in Islamic countries? Think about the dress restrictions for U.S. servicewomen off base in Mid-Eastern "allied" countries, such as Saudi Arabia, and Jordan? What I read sent chills down my spine, because I am not a Muslim. Full freedom of action is allowed only if you are a convert to the religion.

Dhimmitude is the living condition which all non-Islamic persons exist under in a Muslim nation, such as Iran, and the former Afghanistan. All foreign religions are "tolerated" but not given freedom to prosthetize and find converts. They are not allowed to repair their church building without consent of the local Sheikh and or ruling council. Such permission is not given, so non-Islamic churches fall to disrepair.

Under the strict interpretation of the Shariah, if a Muslim wants to sit in the chair you occupy, you must give it up without complaint. If he steps on your toes, you have no recourse but to apologize for getting your feet in his way. You are afforded "protection under the Shariah" only as long as you don't overstep your bounds as an infidel.

The Taliban were running a classic Islamic ruled country under the original intent espoused by Mohammed. And they are not the only place affected by these laws. Who do you think assassinated Egyptian President Anwar Sadat? Fundementalist hardnose factions in his own government, because they felt he had betrayed Islam! Not long ago, two men in Egypt were killed, requiring battalions of police to keep things from boiling over. Why did they die? A believer was riding his donkey down the street in front of a Christian household. His animal slipped, and he probably ended up on his butt. He was so enraged, he killed the two Christians living there with an axe he had, as if they had caused the animal to lose its footing. HE WAS NOT PROSECUTED!!! Coptic Christians almost challenged the government for the senseless killing.

No, not all Muslims are violent. Many are honest, law abiding citizens in the countries where they live. However the radical elements of the religion want no peace with anyone not Muslim. It is acceptable to lie to an enemy, and not against the writings of the prophet, because the enemy is NOT a believer. Their enemies are INFIDELS, ...NON BELIEVERS. You and me, and all our families. The real battle we are in is just beginning. We won't see the end of it within the lifetimes of all who read my words right now.

Time will tell, won't it.

Semper Fi!

jryanjack
04-08-04, 02:30 PM
Let me first of all state that I was not responding to Namgrunt's comments and for the most part agree with everything that he said. What I was responding to was the statement made by radio relay:

""Religion of peace", my a$$! These ragheads are a demonic scurge. Sent by satan, himself. They want to kill us all, and will not stop unless we kill them first!"

That translated to me as an invitation to kill them all before they kill us, with all meaning all of Islam. My argument is that we should try and kill those who are trying to kill us before they do so; however, they all are not trying to kill us! If I am wrong in my translation then I don't think that we are too far apart on the topic; if I am right however then we have a few differences.

Personally I am insulted that because of my belief that all of Islam shouldn't be eliminated that I am labeled as a liberal with no other supporting information. If you care to know, I am a card carrying member of the RNC (Republican National Committee) and was privileged to serve on the campaigns of Congressman Lindsey Graham (now Jr Senator from SC) when he won his first congress seat, which by the way had been held by the liberals for 60 years. I have also served on the campaigns of Strom Thurmond and Bush the senior and junior. Needless to say, I am not a liberal by any stretch of the mind (though some of my liberal friends would be amused to hear me called one!). So maybe before we start labeling people we should maybe read more than 1 or 2 of their posts, or even a single word?

radio relay
04-09-04, 09:56 AM
jryanjack

Well it's good to hear that you aren't a liberal. However, when you start employing code words, such as "genocide", beloved by liberals whenever they try to argue a point, it is a red flag.

I guess I should say, that there are people in this world,who are devout Muslims, and Arabs, whom I consider dear friends, and whom I hope think of me in that way, too. They are good, peace loving people who do not want to kill anyone for who they are or what they believe. I would be very saddened to see any of these good people suffer, due to the current state of affairs in the world.

Unfortunately, the good people in that part of the world have no voice, because the islamic religion, and the islamic world has been hijacked by the extreme fundamentalists, who are consumed with hatred. The peace loving people are marked for death by their own brethren, if they so much as hint at disagreement with the extremists.

Sadly, many such people will indeed suffer. It is their unlucky karma. They are doomed to suffer at the hands of their own, and from actions taken by us. Before this war is over, many innocents will be lost. It isn't good, and it isn't right, but it "is" the way of war.

I'm here to tell you that the vast majority of arabs, and muslims, do not have a bleeding heart for us. The vast majority of arabs and muslims want the United States obliterated.

How many are you willing to see die to preserve our nation? Innocent or not.

SF :marine:

jryanjack
04-09-04, 10:09 AM
radio relay,

That is a hard question to answer, while I would not want to see any innocents die for the preservation of any nation, I do understand that it happens. I think that we need to wage an all out war to eliminate the extremist who threaten us, however, we need to do so in a way that tries to protect innocents, otherwise we are no different than the extremists, other then we will be the ones standing at the end.

namgrunt
04-09-04, 10:42 AM
Gents (and I use the term loosely),

We all are wound tight right now, with our younger brothers in the midst of combat. I'm just as guilty of going off "half-cocked" sometimes. We all agree that our course is not an easy one. We all seem to agree that placation of the radical elements of some middle eastern countries is not a solution. They are the true enemies of all we hold dear, and would not let us live in peace if given the chance.

What we must do is educate ourselves on what their operative guidelines are. Study your enemy. Learn how he thinks, and get inside his head to defuse his capability. We also know that there are "dupes" in our own country, and leadership, who don't understand the character of the people who have targetted us. Whether for political gain, or from radical mindset, or just plain fear of danger, these people want to give in, and get back to their comfort zone existence.

That isn't going to happen, and we, in particular, know it. We're all Marines here. Most of us have the experience of post firefight nerves, when you realize who made it and who didn't, and how close you came to the "didn't make it" roster. We've got to pull together and face what is coming, with as open a mind as possible, while maintaining our guard and remaining prepared to counter attack when assaulted.

We have a long way to go, gentlemen. We must work together. We borrowed a phrase from the Chinese back in the 1930s. It became a cliche, and is sometimes used in a derogatory sense, but it says what must be done now.
GUNG-HO! "Work Together!"
That is what we must do now.

Thats how I see it.
Semper Fi!

radio relay
04-09-04, 10:47 AM
jryanjack

Poppycock!!!

It's that exact type of thinking that ends up getting more killed. When you commit to war you take the whole enchalada. You fight to the death, and get it over with. Far fewer "innocents" die that way.

If you aren't a liberal, then you've been corrupted by them. The "we're no different" crap is just stupid, self righteous, liberal, hyperbolic boloney. If you think the United States Of America, is not worth protecting, at any cost, then you are very sadly misguided.

Also, we are *not* like them! We will *never* be like them! No matter how many we send to allah!

SF :marine:

d c taveapont
04-09-04, 01:09 PM
RADIO RELAY! let it rest brother. like NAMGRUNT says. WE are MARINES we can only sit back and pray for those in combat.......the mouse