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View Full Version : When Someone Spits on Your Service To Your Country



gwladgarwr
04-06-04, 04:17 PM
Here's an interesting story that happened to me:

I was sitting at the bar at an American Legion post. An SAL (Sons of the American Legion) was sitting next to me. I already know he doesn't have a high opinion of me, but we got into a conversation somehow about qualifying for Legion membership. He revealed that he lost two uncles in Vietnam. With that said, he started asking me about me and being deployed to Iraq last year with my Marine unit. In a nutshell, he said that:

1) I didn't have it bad since I wasn't drafted "like we were";
2) I had it easier what with all the high-tech stuff and no draft;
3) I didn't serve as long in a combat zone as the folks in Vietnam;
4) I'm a Reservist.

I understand that many were drafted during Vietnam, and many joined the services on their own. I also know that both draftees and volunteers, AD and Reservists, made the ultimate sacrifice, in all of our wars. All I do know is that when I joined (when I did not have to go, given my age and no draft was in place), I was continuing on for those who went before me. All I know is that I joined and continue to serve at all.

This guy then tells me that he was against the war back in the '70's. Fine. He also tells me he missed serving at that time by a few years. OK. But, he could have joined the military once he turned 18, even if it was after Vietnam. I, too, was also too young for Vietnam, and I waited YEARS to join (at age 32). I finally joined, and never really expected to go abroad to fight a war. Next thing I knew, I was in the desert doing raids and roadblocks. Deployment was seven months, and I stayed on active a full year.

All this comes from a guy who made excuses to me as to why he never joined the military once he was old enough, and this coming from someone who never wore a uniform, never served, and never served in a combat zone. He knew all about being there, though. Now, I know I'm no survivor of Guadalcanal or Iwo or Khe Sahn or Pusan or Belleau Wood, and never claimed to be. I couldn't and wouldn't take that away from anyone who went there. But, I found it funny that he's all about the vets now - someone who never joined period .

Answering his question, I rate membership in both the American Legion (whether I ever fought in a war or served at home) and the VFW (because I DID go into combat overseas), both of which I joined almost a year ago. Am I overreacting and taking it too personally, or did I just get my service belittled? The sneer on his face while he was talking to me sorta said it all. (BTW, I see him just about every day and get similar remarks from his constantly, and the other remarks ain't what you would consider appropriate said to a serviceman. Maybe I should throw it in his face next when I'm in my blues, but I'm too NICE to do that. ;-)


Is he a jealous, bitter, draft-dodging hater who should be brought up, or should I just be nice and let it go? Mind you: this is in a Legion hall, where most of the members are vets.

sgt.lane
04-06-04, 04:28 PM
I would ask him next time "have you joined yet?" or "Hey, when are you going to see the recruiter I thought I would give you a ride." Something helpful along those lines.

MillRatUSMC
04-06-04, 04:30 PM
That IDIOT has no business being in either the VFW or the American Legion.
We should write some E-Mail to the SAL Sons of the American Legion on this boor behavior.
http://www.sal.legion.org/contact.htm

Bet that he has relations in leadership of either the VFW or the American Legion.
He might be placing them in a difficult position by this behavior...

Semper Fidelis
Ricardo

hump_drop
04-06-04, 05:31 PM
You have every right to be upset at what this turd is doing.

Personally, I would ask him exactly why it is he never offered himself for his country. I'd also ask him exactly who we are when he talks about how rough they had it.

devildog21345
04-06-04, 05:43 PM
gwladgarwr

never argue with anyone dumber than you are they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

kentmitchell
04-06-04, 06:10 PM
If you're overreacting, so am I. I got more and more p****d as I read it.
Tell whoever let him in the place he should be ashamed of himself.

Semper Fi, gwladgarwr. Kick his butt next time he opens his hole.

ivalis
04-06-04, 08:18 PM
i wouldn't get too excited bout it.
he's comparing apples to oranges, it ain't the same now as then, doesn't mean it's any better or worse, just different.

almost got into a row at a legion post for saying that i wished the VFW would just die out. of course the morons didn't understand that i was saying that i hoped there would never be any more foreign wars. just wishfull thinking on my part.

CplCrotty
04-06-04, 08:53 PM
Sounds like this character has a huge chip on his shoulder, probably from the overiding guilt of having not served. Reminds me of an older brother of mine who is about that same age and has the same issues. Tell him to go f*#@ himself.

Super Dave
04-06-04, 09:05 PM
Tell him to kiss your ass, you've been to war to protect our freedom..what has he done?...played games on his playstation??
Then kick his butt..and move on...

gwladgarwr
04-06-04, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by MillRatUSMC
That IDIOT has no business being in either the VFW or the American Legion.
We should write some E-Mail to the SAL Sons of the American Legion on this boor behavior.
http://www.sal.legion.org/contact.htm

Bet that he has relations in leadership of either the VFW or the American Legion.
He might be placing them in a difficult position by this behavior...

Semper Fidelis
Ricardo

Pretty strong reactions in here! Really motivates me!

The guy has been in SAL for years, and is part of the "good ole' boys' club" - at least of the SAL part. He's pretty tight with many Legion AND SAL members, so it's very unlikely he'd get turned out. He's a bully and thinks he can throw his weight around. I sorta had to let him know that night "how do you know if you've never served?" His reply was, "Well, my two uncles who died..." Well, I know it's sad he lost his uncles who served honorably, but he himself never did, especially when he was healthy and strong and had the chance to do so. He didn't want to go.

I'll keep an eye on him. Even saw him tonight - he even gave me the same sneer. It must be hard to have so much envy and hate in one's heart for so long. Don't know if his father/grandfather served, which is the only way he could qualify for SAL - I may have to look into that.

Thanks for the moto - with how things are heating up again in the desert, a little pep goes a long way.

namgrunt
04-07-04, 01:54 AM
gwladgarwr: <br />
<br />
I'm not a member of either the American Legion, or the VFW. Does the Legion allow &quot;children&quot; of Legionnaires to belong, even if they are against what the original member stood for? ...

gwladgarwr
04-07-04, 12:39 PM
I knew folks in here can always be counted on saying things that way too often ring true! This guy is a member of the "Sons of the American Legion", a group "sponsored" by the Legion (who doesn't even have its own Congressional charter - while the Ladies' Auxiliary does). All three groups hang out in the Legion post. The only qualification for SAL members is to be a son or grandson of someone who served during specific qualification periods (WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, etc.), and that father/grandfather doesn't have to be a past/present Legion member. You just have to prove father's/grandfather's service. That's it. Doesn't matter if that son seems to be disrespectful of others who served or is even anti-war- you just have to qualify based on ancestry/date of service and be part of the "good ole' boys' club" and you're in.

Funny thing is: I'm a Post officer myself, but he doesn't seem to have much regard for that since he's pretty tight with the Legion post commander - familiarity breeds contempt, I guess. But should it become a problem, I suppose I can make it difficult. There won't be a physical confrontation (and yes, he's a pretty big dude), but I'll handle it if it ever came to that. He hasn't disrespected the Corps per se, but he does look down on me and my service for some reason. Either way, it didn't make me feel good, especially having it come from the likes of him. Yes, I know I may not have gone through what many before me have, but I signed up to do just that when the call comes - and the way things are going in Fallujah right now, that call can come at any time. I've already gone, for that matter.

Thanks for the motivation. Makes me want to throw it in his face!

gwladgarwr (LCpl Race)

CAS3
04-07-04, 03:23 PM
LCpl Race,
I don't live far if you ever change your mind about taking that kid out back!
It is the ignorant bafoons with their protest posters I see in DC every day that really get my fire started. And for this jack azz to start something with a US Marine well, it really shows his mental capacity!

gwladgarwr
04-07-04, 03:59 PM
CAS3:
Thanks for the offer. It's sad, though, considering this guy is about 47 years old and has a 20-year old daughter (who's beautiful but just as rude and attitude-having as her daddy.) I was thinking about slipping an Ex-Lax in his beer.

david43844
04-07-04, 04:04 PM
Ask him If his Uncles died how does he know they had it so bad? Semper Fi...David

Toby M
04-07-04, 05:25 PM
He is probably the same guy that was throwing bags of **** at my cab when I got back from 'Nam! Don't hear a lot from those guys anymore... Now, "they" are real patriots. It's best to ignore him because they only get dumber and dumber...Sounds like he is looking for someone to knock his block off so he can justify his actions (or inactions as the case may be)!

fulmetaljackass
04-07-04, 05:38 PM
Tell him you're a vet and he's a wannabe. What his uncles did is what his UNCLES did. HE is nothing but a WANNABE.

sgtfowler
04-07-04, 08:21 PM
A-hole has no right to make comments to any serviceman if he hasn't been there.

usmc4669
04-07-04, 10:40 PM
CAS3 LCpl Race,
I don't live far if you ever change your mind about taking that kid out back!
It is the ignorant bafoons with their protest posters I see in DC every day that really get my fire started. And for this jack azz to start something with a US Marine well, it really shows his mental capacity!

CAS3, now what would you do kick him in the B*lls, them beat him to a pulp?

I never did have much respect for the American Legion, that's why I never join them. I am a life member of the VFW.

gwladgarwr, I wouldn't give him the time of day, just ignore him don't even make eye contact, if he push you too far then grab a hand full of his B*lls and put him on the ground tell him you will really hurt him the next if he keeps putting you down.

namgrunt
04-08-04, 12:40 AM
LCpl Race:

You earned the title of US Marine. I don't care if you are Active, or Reserve, or Retired, or Inactive (no longer in, but not a lifer), you are one of us! Those are your brothers involved in the hard fighting in Iraq. You were there yourself. You don't need to take a back seat to anyone, even if you were a lowly disbursing clerk.

You've gotten lots of good advice here, just put it to use. Keep your cool, and maintain your status as "the adult" in this matter. It might be a good thing to research what offenses it would take to throw someone out of the Legion. If this guy is tight with the post commander, try and ascertain the commander's feelings about reservists. If that attitude is not good, then that might explain where this guy gets his "guts" to say what he does.

Check out those Amer. Legion rules. Look for and find a trapdoor you can open up beneath this jerk to flush him down the tubes. All organizations have procedural rules, with DOs and DON'Ts. Find the "DON'T" you need, but don't say anything to anyone about it, just keep it handy if the manure ever hits the fan.

Hang in, and keep focused on your brothers in combat. They rate your attention and prayers, not that wannabe jerk or his kids.

Semper Fi!

tophor
04-08-04, 12:56 AM
That gets me fired up! That P.O.S. has NO business making ANY comments about what his uncles or anyone has gone through, period!! He has NEVER served and has no clue how anyone has had it. I am also a life member of the VFW, my father got the membership for me before he passed away, this joker probably has no clue about what the requirements are nor does he meet any of them. Don't let that freak of nature bother you, he has no clue about what it means to serve his country.

yellowwing
04-08-04, 04:21 AM
I think that putz has no character or honor. He is vainly trying to borrow it from his Uncles'.

We've earned ours. Semper Fi! :marine:

radio relay
04-08-04, 05:43 AM
I can't believe they would even let that fool into a Veteran's club. What a low life clown. If you look him in the eye, and point out to him that he is a limp dick, draft dodging coward, who shouldn't even be allowed in an establishment meant to honor Veterans. On top of being a sh!t for brains fool, for bad mouthing a Veteran who is just back from defending our beloved country. Then, I'm sure he will leave you alone. If his ding bat Veteran "friends" take his side against you, then leave the post, and find another one that will respect you and all Veterans.

Sadly, the American Legion is full of those types. The VFW ain't much better.

That's precisely why I stay away from those joints. My Dad, a WWII, Korea, and Vietnam Vet, with "Stars" and "Hearts" from the first two, would never have anything to do with those organisations, either.

I'll never forget the day, over thirty years ago, that I walked into the local VFW, hoping to be able to join. I was basically laughed at, and told that Vietnam wasn't a "real" war. So, they didn't want me.

Too bad, because the VFW is a good organization. I was bitter about that experience for a long time. However, I finally did join the VFW a couple years ago, as an "at large" member (i.e. not affilliated with any local post), because I want to support them. The VFW, and the American Legion, too, both do great work on the national level. There are some fine local posts, as well, but too many of the locals are dominated by power hungry, self agrandising idiots, and cliques.

I want to become a life member of the VFW. So I think I will eventually have to afilliate with a local post. I really like the Ft. Logan post, and will most likely join up with them soon. Even though they are 150 miles away.

I've also been a member of the Vietnam Veterans Of America, for several years. Again, not with local afilliation. Same reasons. Viet Vets can be idiots, too.

Don't even get me started on the Marine Corps League...

SF :marine:

25snakeman02
04-08-04, 12:30 PM
gwladgarwr, Did I misread something, you said Father, Grandfather? His two Uncles do not qualify him for Membership. Call his bluff? Wear a hiddden tape recorder, get him drunk then let Him shoot his mouth off. Keep the tape, try to find out how He qualified for SAL. In some Legions, the members have never been in the Service of our Country. They were falsely approved by those running for Commander. Going along with the ExLax idea, take a whole bottle of Visine, and put it in his beer. He will be in the sh_tter the next morning when the Legion opens up. Known trick among waiters and waitresses for rude customers. I am from Fairfax, I do belong to the Legion. I could visit my Sister in Fairfax if you need Reinforcements.

Good Luck keep us in the Loop.

Snake out

usmc4669
04-08-04, 01:20 PM
Sadly, the American Legion is full of those types. The VFW ain't much better. I'll never forget the day, over thirty years ago, that I walked into the local VFW, hoping to be able to join. I was basically laughed at, and told that Vietnam wasn't a "real" war. So, they didn't want me.


I am wondering just what kind of Veterans belong to your local Post. I have never heard any veteran from any war down a veteran who served in Vietnam, We do have a lot of blow hards who are members of the VFW, all they do is drink and ***** about anything and everthing. How hard they had it when in the service and how easy it is now. Then that was the old corps wasn't it?

radio relay
04-08-04, 01:54 PM
usmc4649

It was the post in Boulder, Co. Like I said, it was over thirty years ago. Back then, the VFW was totally dominated by WWII Vets. Not disrespecting WWII Vets, but they didn't have much respect for Viet Vets, back then. Basically, thought we were a bunch of cry babies, who "lost" our war, and of course, didn't have it "as hard" as they did. Thus, the "real war" b.s. I guess the general unpopularity of the war transcended all segments of society. Including Veterans.

I know it is much different today. Thankfully.

I also get tired of old Vets of my era (Vietnam) carping about the old days, and how the kids these days aren't as tough, etc., etc. So what? They're still fighting and dieing today. No different than any war fought in the past.

God bless them!

They have better equipment, and better, more humane training methods. Great!! From what I can see, those kids are doing a superb job. I thank my lucky stars everyday, that we still have young people who can, and do, fight for our country so well.

SF :marine:

gwladgarwr
04-08-04, 03:31 PM
25snakeman02:

Well, sir, he has two uncles who died in Vietnam, but didn't qualify for SAL because of them (at least I THINK so). I believe his father was a WWII or Korea vet (but I'm not certain on that). I've heard the scam some posts have pulled (Cmdrs, other officers) to get favored buddies in, and with many other non-mil. orgs., too. Being that he's pretty tight with the Commander, it wouldn't surprise me that was how he got in - this SAL guy has been around the post for a good number of years (hence his knowledge of how hard things were in Vietnam.) Hell, I'm related to that guy that discovered the Rh Factor, so that's whyI know all about blood typing and how to do my own at-home blood transfusions.

Oh, I know about the Visine trick. Haven't done that since high school. Think I'd like to try Murine - makes you pass out. When I was a waiter, whenever nasty customers ticked me off, I used to touch their food. That'd teach 'em.

Haven't been down to Post 177 since Christmas, so it's time for a visit and to see Mrs. Frank. She's my partner in toy peddling for Toys 4 Tots.

I find it pretty sad that some vets will slag other fellow vets, esp. fellow members of mil-related orgs. I've seen/experienced it myself, both at the Legion and at the VFW (and I know how many VFW members feel about the Legion). But, I can also understand how some vets want nothing to do with any of these organizations. Some just want to be left alone. I can come up with a lot of bad/sad examples of the Legion and the VFW, but nothing's perfect, and people change. That's also a perception that needs to change with such organizations - young vets don't want to join because they think these places are full of old-time vets who sit and drink and b**** about the old days and how lousy the VA is. It's like that recent Toby Keith video.

MCL can also be a drag sometimes, but depends on how much fun you want to have there or anywhere else, for that matter. Sure is a drag when sometimes you end up being surrounded by haters and takers. But they just hate me because I'm beautiful - it really does hurt to look this good. :marine:

Tom Clear
04-08-04, 05:01 PM
It never fails in every group you have your 10%. Maybe we should cuff him and stuff him and send him on the next flight to Iraq and let him tell our brothers over there that they don't have it as rough........ No guess we will just half to tollerate the idiot. Maybe he sleeps better at night because he thinks he has out done you. But I bet he sleeps with one eye opem. Keep your chin up. Semper Fi, Tom