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Sparrowhawk
03-31-04, 10:21 AM
http://play.rbn.com/?url=ap/nynyt/g2demand/0331iraq_alt_SS.rm&proto=rtsp&mode=compact
Video: Violence in Falluja (Graphic Content


http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/03/31/international/31cnd-iraq.jpg
In Falluja, insurgents attacked two cars and set them on fire, burning the passengers and dragging the bodies outside.


At least four non-Iraqis in Falluja were reportedly killed then beaten and burned as crowds cheered.

Gunmen in Falluja attacked two civilian vehicles, killing their occupants and setting the cars on fire, The A.P. reported.

Associated Press Television News captured images of a man beating a corpse with a metal pole and others dragging a second corpse down a street as crowds cheered, the news agency said.

After the attack on the foreigners this morning, residents told The A.P. that the burned cars contained weapons and that some of the bodies were dressed in flak jackets.


The A.P. television network footage showed one American passport near a body and a United States Department of Defense identification card belonging to another man.

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/03/31/international/Iraq184.jpg
Iraqis stood on a car which was attacked by gunmen in Fallujah Wednesday.

The series of deadly attacks on American troops and foreign civilians in the Sunni Triangle area of central Iraq, particularly around Falluja, and a similar spate of attacks in the northern oil city of Mosul, have raised doubts about the cautiously optimistic appraisal of American progress in the war that has been common among United States generals since the beginning of the year

Catz1611
03-31-04, 11:14 AM
yup.. that'll get the ole' blood boiling!:mad: :mad: :mad:

I hope the individuals who were killed, were named and their bodies returned, so the families could bury them.

Super Dave
03-31-04, 11:49 AM
We shold make the WHOLE place a big parking lot and put a Super Wal-Mart in the middle and were done with it!

:mad: :mad: :mad:

CAS3
03-31-04, 12:11 PM
Super Dave...add a McDonalds and you and I have the same thought.
Those mother fers don't know a good thing is happening to them.

Better yet, lets get Saddam back in there and parade him around with a gun to his head....

MillRatUSMC
03-31-04, 12:28 PM
If there;s payback, the world will condemn us for taking acts of payback.
Yes, we're angry and fustrated at the madness of it all.
We're told of all the progress we're making in Irag.
But this minority of the total population will have to be dealth with before it all said and done.
The Sunni's and the Kurds want a voice in the governing of Iraq.
But this madness is not the way to go about it.
Will there be a civil war before it all said and done?
The Sunni's want Saddam back, even if it meaning suffering for all of Iraq.
During Saddam years of killing, they were power, that what they resent most of all, the loss of power.
MADNESS AND INSANITY that leaves you angry because any action taken will be condemn by the world.
I can't wait till June, we must seek these killers of these people and try them in a court and than taking them out for excution, hanging.

Semper Fidelis but mad as hades in northwest Indiana
Ricardo

HardJedi
03-31-04, 02:52 PM
Hmmm, just try and help some people. If it wasn't an even bigger evil, I'd stay stuff like this is enough to make me think we should just pull everyone back and sit in our own borders. Let the rest of the world fend for themselves. but then again, to me, doing that would be an even worse evil.

So what are ya gonna do?

I guess, all i can really say, is I am sorry for the families of the victims, but the people killed knew the risks involved.

Rufe
03-31-04, 03:06 PM
on cnn.com it said that they hung the bodys from a bridge

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/03/31/iraq.main/index.html

vfm
03-31-04, 03:20 PM
Ihope this shows these peace marchers what type of animals are on that side of the world. It is my understanding that these were civilian contractors that were going to help re-build Iraq.
Go figure.
Semper Fi !!!
vfm

fulmetaljackass
03-31-04, 03:47 PM
Super Dave and CAS3, most Super Wal-Marts these days have McDonald's built into them.

I agree, though. The place should be leveled. I'm getting tired of the U.S. doing everybody else's dirty work and then being sh!t on for it.

RONPRICE
03-31-04, 04:03 PM
Wal-Mart and McDonalds are too good for a sorry ass country like Iraq...Just level it and walk away !!! I agree with you fullmetaljackass....Getting tired of helping out then getting sh*t on.....Just my opinion.......

d c taveapont
03-31-04, 08:26 PM
yep it HURTS to see things like this, just how big is fullujah. put a curfew and fence them in. we had the imperial guard is it?. and we let them go as well as the regular army members of iraq. what in the he** were the US thinking? if we let them go they'll be friends thats BS.. i don't usually get pizzed but i am....:mad:

Osotogary
03-31-04, 09:45 PM
I had a call from my eldest son in Kuwait this afternooon. He said that a Kuwait policeman pointed an AK 47 at him (up close and personal) Son said that he remained calm but was justifiably scared. He couldn't even move to show the policeman his passport, the guy wouldn't let him move. He's alive to talk about it to me but it still pi$$ed me off, big time.
He also mentioned that he was in a market place the day that the spiritual leader (?) of Hamas was killed. Guess who doesn't look like he is from Kuwait, Palestine, Quatar, etc.?
Now he can really take care of himself, I mean really take care of himself but to fight all the people who were "bumping" into him would have meant his demise. He was able to "muscle" a cab ride out of the area, towards safer grounds.
After hanging up the telephone, I hear the terrible news in Falluja.
It's tough being sad and pi$$ed off all afternoon.
I have to tell you, frankly, I wouldn't have minded, in the least, to point blank an AK 47 in one of the policeman's orifices. Am I perpetuating violence? In this case, yes I am.
Crud. I don't like feeling this way!
Gary(osotogary)

namgrunt
04-01-04, 04:18 AM
According to the reports I've heard, the dead in the two cars were American civilian contractors, and one was a female. Not sure as to the accuracy of the report, but can say that this is designed to make us run.

I say okay, lets run! Lets "RUN" right up to their damn huts and burn Fullujah to the ground. Ring the entire town with one division, and have a second division sweep through the town from east to west. If you fight us, your dead. If you shake your fist and run away, you had better never stop (until you run into the ring of armor on the perimeter).

Check each and every structure and vehicle encountered. If arms are found in your house or in your car, and you are not an authorized New Policeman, you and your family will be allowed 15 minutes to say your goodbyes to Allah and each other, then you're all dead. If you are an authorized Policeman and point a weapon at an American, you're dead. GI's will have to travel in groups of no fewer than two men at a time and be armed, even when on liberty (especially when on liberty).

NO more Mr. Nice Guy!!! Let the "mujahadeen" cruds who start this sort of stuff see what is coming their way if they don't change their minds darn quick. Give us your hearts and minds, or we'll send you into the next life as a jelly smear.

Well, now that I've gotten that off my chest, what will we really do? We would never follow the course of action I've just laid out, because we still want to leave with some permanent closure to the War with Radical Islam. Only time will tell.

Semper Fi!
Itchy Trigger fingered NamGrunt! (FIRE IN THE HOLE !!)

mrbsox
04-01-04, 05:50 AM
My heart goes out to you Gary, and it sounds like you rasied a son capable of rational thought.

It's getting to the point I don't think we can even trust the Police over there. I'm not sure about the Army we are training either.

Often, discrettion is the better part of valor. Live to fight another day.

Terry

0351teufelhund
04-01-04, 07:08 AM
nam grunt,
thank you. i logged on this morning just to address this issue and you have commented on it perfectly. enough is enough. no more bullsh!t. these cowards need to learn that the marines are there now. sh!t like this will not be tolerated. did you read the quote that a man said he hopes the US comes into the city so they could unleash hell? or the sign that read "fallujah is the cemetary for Americans" ? these punks do not know who they're screwin with. let's enlighten them; "unleash hell?" they have no idea. i like the parking lot idea too. they have made a direct assault on the US and a swift response is needed. whew, i feel a little bit better. thanks all.

Ed Palmer
04-01-04, 07:32 AM
Lets just put Saddam back in charge for a few day.s just long enough to make all them sorry axxhole,s happy then level the new parking lot

usmc4669
04-01-04, 10:19 AM
Anger In City Shows No Sign Of Abating
Los Angeles Times - Free Registration Required (WASHINGTON APR. 01)
After a year of trying, the U.S. military can't figure out how to quell the rage in Fallouja, perhaps the most dangerous city in Iraq's most dangerous region. Last spring, the Army's 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment sent in a small, light force that got into a firefight and was forced to retreat. Next came the 3rd Infantry Division and then the 82nd Airborne, with more ironfisted approaches. When each left, the insurgents seemed as strong as ever. Last month, the Marines arrived with a different strategy, running 24 hour a day patrols to hunt down insurgents while spending millions of dollars aimed at winning civilian hearts and minds.


Descent Into Carnage In A Hostile City
Washington Post - Free Registration Required (FALLUJAH, Iraq APR. 01)
From 10 a.m. until late afternoon Wednesday, all activity in Fallujah was clustered in two areas, the busy downtown shopping district where gunmen ambushed and killed four American security guards, and the nearby Euphrates River where the bodies of two victims were suspended from a bridge and then burned on the riverbank. Ahmed Obayid, 38, a commercial truck driver, said the ambush was carried out by three insurgents who drove into town on a large truck. He said the insurgents, whom he described as mujaheddin, Arabic for holy warriors, cleared the area by detonating an explosive device that created a loud noise but did not cause any damage. Shops were shuttered and pedestrians fled. "There were three who jumped from the truck, shooting," Obayid said.

U.S. Optimism Is Tested Again After Ambush Kills 4 In Iraq
New York Times - Free Registration Required (BAGHDAD, Iraq APR. 01)
Hours after the deaths of the four American civilians who were dragged from their vehicle and mutilated in Falluja on Wednesday, an American general went before reporters in Baghdad with the air of measured assurance that has characterized every daily briefing on the military situation across Iraq. Despite an uptick in local engagements, the overall area of operations remains relatively stable with negligible impact on the coalition's ability to continue progress in governance, economic development, and restoration of essential services," said Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, 51, the former paratrooper who is chief spokesman for the United States military command. Nearly a year into the insurgency, the command, in lock step with the civilian administration headed by L. Paul Bremer III, remains relentlessly positive.

usmc4669
04-01-04, 11:37 AM
What do you think?

USMC-FO
04-01-04, 11:44 AM
My sense of what to do here appears to be echoed by many others--for ths partcular cty 'eye' feel we can make a statement here....about tme as far as 'eye' am concerned. Here s what 'eye' have felt for some tme: blow the brdges nto the cty, seal off the other access routes, sourround the place, 72 hrs for the "frendlyes" to leave though our door, check and regster everyone leavng, detane all young men between 17 to 30 and park them n the desert for as long as necessary, anyone left there shall be deemed enemy combatants, move through wth ar, armor,and shooters and deal wth the left overs wth great hostlty. Make statement wth ths cty that we wll not be "F**Ked wth any longer.

sorry too for the sloppy spellng...try to wrte anythng when the 'eye' on the computer s kaput...

usmc4669
04-01-04, 12:52 PM
They were just four Americans who went to help rebuild your war torn land,
then in Fallujah, Iraq they gave their lives for what, some Iraqis cannot understand.

A peaceful mission to restore the water and electrical for those who did this horrible thing,
they came out of nowhere with weapons in their hands, out from behind cover where they could not be seen.

Four Americans civilians they didn't go there to fight like our Military was sent to do,
You poor bastard Iraqis who stood by and let this thing happen, they went there only to help you.

After it was over you cheered and dance on the cars that they were killed in,
dragging the bodies through the street and beating a charred corpse with a metal pole tried to kill him again.

Then you dismember some of their corpses like the animals you were raised to be,
Associated Press Television News showed pictures so that the whole world could see.

A jubilant crowd of civilians of Fallujah hung some of the bodies on the old bridge like slaughtered sheep,
Now comes the time that you will be hunted down by Marines like dogs you better not try to go to sleep.

Now if you live in Fallujah and shouted Fallujah is the graveyard of Americans and then you think that we will not react,
You cowards have made one hell of a mistake, we are sending back in the Marines and they will bury you in your tracks..

d c taveapont
04-01-04, 01:46 PM
What have we gotten in to men, like i said before and i'll say it again, forget about rebuilding. we won, now come home. don't let it become another viet-nam. those people will never change. yes, i am mad as hell for what they did to those civilians. the thing that got my dander up was some guy filling in for rush sounded like he wanted to show all of america the pics of those dead civilians. we know that we are at war. and for the familys sake don't show those pics again. i 'm afraid that what happened in iraq is going to show this nov and who ever wins will have to let the world know that we are a peaceful nation. until we are attacked. "maybe the CORPS should go back to the old way. take your azz whiping with out crying HE hit me. or i have my rights.". we need to build Marines in boot camp and tell them its not only about education and the G.I.biil. its also about war and fighting for our country..:marine:

thedrifter
04-01-04, 06:54 PM
A Message for Fallujah
Those behind yesterday's atrocity must pay--or we all will.

Thursday, April 1, 2004 12:01 a.m. EST

The world is used to bad news and always has been, but now and then there occurs something so brutal, so outside the normal limits of what used to be called man's inhumanity to man, that you have to look away. Then you force yourself to look and see and only one thought is possible: This must stop now. You wonder, how can we do it? And your mind says, immediately: Whatever it takes.

What they did in Fallujah, Iraq, yesterday was such an event. The ambush, grenading, shooting and killing of four American civilians, the setting of their SUVs on fire and the brutalization of their corpses was savage, primitive, unacceptable. The terrible glee of the young men in the crowds, and the sadism they evinced, reminds us of the special power of the ignorant to impede the good. The pictures that television appropriately mostly did not show and the Internet inevitably mostly did were horrifying in a way that was reminiscent of the first still pictures of the Trade Center victims of 9/11. It was like seeing people in business suits falling through the air again. It was as if someone pointed a camera at evil and actually caught it in the act.

The Americans who were murdered were, according to the wires, working for a security company, a North Carolina-based subcontractor hired by the U.S. government, among other things, to guard convoys.

The convoys carried food. They carried it to Fallujah.





The four civilians were not the only Americans who died in Iraq yesterday. We lost five soldiers in a roadside bombing. The statements of American officials in Iraq were appropriate: This stops nothing, the terrorists will not win. A State Department spokesman said the contractors "were trying to make a difference and to help others." Indeed they were. There are many such in Iraq. They are risking their lives for many reasons, including improving the prospects for health and safety of 12-year-old boys like the one quoted by Reuters who witnessed the actions of his elders after the attack on the civilians. "I am happy to see this," he said.
It is hard not to hate the teenagers and young men who celebrated under the bridge where they hanged the charred bodies. They are human expressions of nihilism. They take pleasure in evil, and they were not shy to show it. They are arrogant. They think barbarity is their right.

If this time, in this incident, these young men are left unchecked, their ways and attitudes, their assumptions and method of operating will only be encouraged, and spread. So we had better check them.





It is possible that the atrocity in Fallujah was spontaneous or not fully thought through, but it doesn't look like it. It seems likely to have been at least to some degree, and perhaps a high degree, well planned and calculated. The brutalizing of the bodies was done in a way that seemed imitative, as all have noted, of the incident in Mogadishu, Somalia, where in 1993 a frenzied mob dragged the dead body of a U.S. Army Ranger through the streets. The civilized world was horrified, and everyone knows what followed: a quick American retreat.
It is not a stretch to imagine the young murderers of Fallujah had this on their minds: Do it again to America, kill them and string up their corpses, because when you do this America leaves.

And so this time the response must be the opposite of the response in Mogadishu.

We know what the men and boys who did the atrocity of Fallujah look like; they posed for the cameras. We know exactly what they did--again, the cameras. We know they massed on a bridge and raised their guns triumphantly. It's all there on film. It would be good not only for elemental justice but for Iraq and its future if a large force of coalition troops led by U.S. Marines would go into Fallujah, find the young men, arrest them or kill them, and, to make sure the point isn't lost on them, blow up the bridge.

Whatever the long-term impact of the charred bodies the short term response must be a message to Fallujah and to all the young men of Iraq: the violent and unlawful will be broken. Savagery is yesterday; it left with Saddam.

It is not only coalition forces that should send this message. It is important that Iraqis themselves--pro-peace and pro-democracy Iraqis who are attempting to build a new government--come forward to denounce what happened in Fallujah. They should stand before the world and denounce the atrocity in the most serious terms. So should our allies. And so should the United Nations.





If an unforgettable message is not sent to the young men of Fallujah, the young nihilists will be inspired, and the lesson of their nihilism--brutality trumps goodwill--will gain ground. The progressives of Iraq will be further disheartened, and all of those there from the West to help, from contract workers to military troops, will feel more beset, more resentful and less hopeful of a good outcome.
The terrible pictures of the charred bodies on the bridge cannot be erased, and no one who saw them is going to forget them. But they can in time come to be accompanied by other pictures--of determined U.S. Marines, for instance, rounding up the men who massed on the bridge under the bodies, and brandished their weapons, and laughed.

Ms. Noonan is a contributing editor of The Wall Street Journal and author of "A Heart, a Cross, and a Flag" (Wall Street Journal Books/Simon & Schuster), a collection of post-Sept. 11 columns, which you can buy from the OpinionJournal bookstore. Her column appears Thursdays.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pnoonan/


Ellie

d c taveapont
04-01-04, 08:30 PM
Yes. you are right " the drifter" we have the pictures. now round up all of those who can be reconized and pick them up and question them. the more i see whats happening i 'll just say we can't get them all. just get those that we see or find. and NOW is the time not to cut and run like somalia. we have to support the troops in what ever they do reguardless of what actions they take.......

CAS3
04-01-04, 09:09 PM
AP REPORT....
Marines took positions on the outskirts of the restive town west of Baghdad where the contractors were ambushed by insurgents Wednesday and then set on by a crowd.


"Coalition forces will respond," the U.S. Army's deputy director of operations, Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, told a news conference. "They are coming back and they are going to hunt down the people responsible for this bestial act.


"It will be at a time and a place of our choosing. It will be methodical, it will be precise and it will be overwhelming."


White House spokesman Scott McClellan said, "I will say that I'm confident that those individuals will be brought to justice for these horrific, despicable attacks."




I really like the "methodical... precise and overwhelming..."
I can't wait to see what we do!!

GySgtRet
04-01-04, 09:20 PM
Fullujah. What Fullujah? Just nuke the damn place and make it a big pice of glass.

namgrunt
04-01-04, 10:48 PM
d c taveapont:
You have it right. We cannot back away from this. The people who are planning the movements of these "insurrectionists" are the same ones who formulated the Somalia fiasco. They are betting they can force us to cut and run. They are counting on it.

We have been "engaged" against these same radical religious leaders since the Beirut airport attack in October 1983, when 241 of our fellow Marines and Corpsmen were killed by ONE martyr suicide bomber. There was dancing in the streets of many enemy towns back then also, to celebrate the "victory" against the Marine peacekeepers. The mistake was to take our men out of country, instead of issuing them full field gear and ammo, and sweeping the city like a broom.

They planned the first attack on the WTC back in 1993, but they failed and had some leaders jailed (the "blind" Imam, Raqman). The Somalia attack was carried out AFTER all Marine forces had already been withdrawn, leaving the Army and UN forces. The movie "Blackhawk Down" was one of Hussein's favorites, because it showed US forces "whipped" and forced to retreat. The Somalis in Mogadishu danced again with glee, and felt their "power" growing.

The men who hijacked our airliners and destroyed the two towers of the WTC were part of this long range plan. When their evil was complete, and the thousands of innocents lay dead, there was dancing in streets throughout the world in enemy cities and towns where the Islamic extremists rule. They gave their kids candy to bring smiles to their faces, and help them celebrate the great victory against "Satan" America. They loved our dying and our helplessness.

These killers of the American civilian contractors also danced. They were having a street party, and hanging the bodies of our people like birthday pinatas full of candy, to be hit and disrespected. They threatened us as a people. If we leave the job unfinished, we will have these same fanatics concentrating on new, even more devastating attacks here in our beloved nation.

Their goal is our destruction. Ours' and Isreals' deaths. I don't want to let that happen. Their goal is to overcome our form of government and life, and create an Islamic state here in North America. It ain't gonna happen while I draw breath.

Its time to teach these turkeys a new dance. Its called the Texas Two Step. Its easy to learn. When the GI shoots at your feet, you dance, and dance, and dance until told to stop. Yep, time to teach old dogs a new trick.

usmc4669
04-02-04, 09:47 AM
GySgtRet

Fullujah. What Fullujah? Just nuke the damn place and make it a big pice of glass.

Are you saying used a WMD?

Sparrowhawk
04-02-04, 11:19 AM
From the WSJ


Fallujah is a reminder, not just of what Saddamism looks like, or of what the future might look like if we fail, but of what the future held before the Coalition took a hand.

Cook

Robert Carnot
04-02-04, 07:23 PM
CAS3,
All of you no her, and know her for what she is. -----a Marine, a lady and a beautiful one! I am glad to know she took my comment for what it was -----just jerking her chain--- as I often do--- Coleen and I are friends and will always be friends----She is a Marine and for what it's worth, she wasn't handed the EG&A, she earned it. And now for my comment------- We are not "an army of one" We will not "cross to the blue" We will not " let the journey begin" WE ARE THE FEW, THE PROUD, and we take our hits as we do our victories-----we don't make EXCUSES----therefore let us keep the "EX" from our proud name. We will continue as the the original Band of Brothers regardless of that stupid show on HBO about the "Crying Sh-tbirds".

Semper Fi,
Bob C.

usmc4669
04-02-04, 07:36 PM
Robert Carnot



CAS3,
All of you no her, and know her for what she is. -----a Marine, a lady and a beautiful one! I am glad to know she took my comment for what it was -----just jerking her chain--- as I often do--- Coleen and I are friends and will always be friends----She is a Marine and for what it's worth, she wasn't handed the EG&A, she earned it. And now for my comment------- We are not "an army of one" We will not "cross to the blue" We will not " let the journey begin" WE ARE THE FEW, THE PROUD, and we take our hits as we do our victories-----we don't make EXCUSES----therefore let us keep the "EX" from our proud name. We will continue as the the original Band of Brothers regardless of that stupid show on HBO about the "Crying Sh-tbirds".
Semper Fi,
Bob C.

Maj somewheres you lost me, then maybe I'm just getting old, be nice now Maj.:banana: :banana: