Should we pull out of Iraq and let the UN take over?

[usmc4669]

YES----

NO----

[TracGunny]

No.

[garryh123]

No

[Sgtj]

No....

(1) Mission Accomplishment

(2) Troop Welfare

[Glenn Lasley]

NO !!!!!!!!!!!

[Lock-n-Load]

:marine: Hell No!!...Why should we shag-@ss. :marine: Semper Fi

[femalewolf2]

NO

[greybeard]

no

[USMC-FO]

No

[greensideout]

How long should we stay?

How much money should we spend there to open the pipelines?

How many lives should we give for----what?

We won the war, time to go.

[greybeard]

1. At least as long as it takes for the 1st free elections.
2. Dunno-how much are you willing to pay for gas? (personally, I think your 2nd question is bboth sensationalist & moot)
3. How many lives is any endeavor worth? For instance-How much worth, in lives, would you place on the freedom of your immediate family? Do you think your, or your family's freedom is more valuale than anyone elses in the world? How about someone's accross the country? In Canada? Where and how can you draw the line?
4. You only win a war when the enemy admits you have. Period.

[MillRatUSMC]

From a commentary by Alan W. Dowd...
After the statues fell in Baghdad, "American soldiers came across our television screens as idealists eager to liberate the unfree and return home, content that they had defeated killers and saved innocents."
The Iraqi people are glad they did. According to a Gallup poll, almost two thirds of Iraqis say liberation from Saddam's rule is worth the temporary privations of the U.S-led occupation. And more than two thirds say they believe their lives will be better five years from now.
That was before all these sucide bombings, some seek to impose their will against the rest of the Iraqis.
Looking at this sucide bombings in reverse, they seek to destory what we have accomplish in a year since the fall of Saddam's brutal government.
So we must be doing something right.
That says to me...stay the course till the Iraqis take over the running of their government and country...

"A man or woman is measured
by the footprint,
he or she leaves behind"

"They were the best you had, America,
and you turned your back on them".
~ Joe Galloway ~ Speaking about Vietnam Veterans

TO THOSE WHO GAVE THEIR LIVES
THAT OTHERS MAY SAY PROUDLY
I AM A MARINE

Semper Fidelis
Ricardo

[bobpage]

I say we send 8th Marine Regiment to NYC, give the filthy bribe taking bureaucrats 48 hours to get out of the building and off our soil. Let then set up shop in,oh, say, France or Germany. They side with them anyway.

[Osotogary]

bobpage,
Sending the 8th Regiment to NYC would bring my son home to US soil. Yours is not a bad idea.

[greensideout]

Originally posted by greybeard
1. At least as long as it takes for the 1st free elections.
2. Dunno-how much are you willing to pay for gas? (personally, I think your 2nd question is bboth sensationalist & moot)
3. How many lives is any endeavor worth? For instance-How much worth, in lives, would you place on the freedom of your immediate family? Do you think your, or your family's freedom is more valuale than anyone elses in the world? How about someone's accross the country? In Canada? Where and how can you draw the line?
4. You only win a war when the enemy admits you have. Period.

1. Would that not require that we give them autonomy---it's time for them to lace their own boots, work in the oil fields and use the oil money to rebuild their country.
2. Moot? It somewhat depends on how you mean that. What I am saying is that our current spending in Iraq is more then our future generations can afford to pay off---(It's money we don't have.)
3. Over 58,000 lives in Nam---Please tell me what we gained?
4. The enemy is not centered in Iraq as you know.

[usmc4669]

greensideout

What is your answer.

Yes_______?

No________?

[greensideout]

LOL, I don't box in quite that easy.

How about answering my questions before you deside that it's either this or that.

[greybeard]

Originally posted by greensideout


1. Would that not require that we give them autonomy---it's time for them to lace their own boots, work in the oil fields and use the oil money to rebuild their country.
2. Moot? It somewhat depends on how you mean that. What I am saying is that our current spending in Iraq is more then our future generations can afford to pay off---(It's money we don't have.)
3. Over 58,000 lives in Nam---Please tell me what we gained?
4. The enemy is not centered in Iraq as you know.

1. They lack the equipment/ technology to rebuild their infratructure, including the oilfields. The Russians were doing the maintenance/production/exploration right up to the time the war started.
2. There will always be a shortage of federal dollars in this country in the future. Global competition has come of age, and the days of us being the world's economic leader are gone for good, even if we stop all foriegn spending today. Think it's bad now? Wait 30 yrs when the Pacific rim countries come of age economically.
3. Nothing-we won all our battles but lost the war when we bailed out-remember? Want us to do it again?
4. Quit dancing around. Answer my 4th question please-where would you peronally draw the line? Be specific. Your family only? You & your neighbors? Your city only? This country only? Our neighbors included? Let's see where you stand. Do all peoples deserve freedom, even if they lack the ability to gain it on their own, or do you believe it is it just for those of us that already have it? It's really a very simple question.

[usmc4669]

Yes______?
No______ ?


We don't need a book for an answer

[greensideout]

4. The answer is simple, it has been made by our founders of this great nation.

If you are not willing to work for, serve for and yes, even die for freedom, then you do not deserve it nor will you ever have it!

That's my answer to you and my message to the people of Iraq.

[greybeard]

I've asked that question many times-never have gotten anyone to give a straight answer. The answer is that anyone any where is deserving of the basic freedoms and liberties we as Americans enjoy. Those who can't fight for it themselves more deserving of our help than any others. The Russians were pushed out of Afghanistan with our help. The Northern got some assistance from us & the Taliban was destroyed with our help. The same is true for those in Kosovo, and the rest of the Balkans.


USMC4669-my vote is 'NO!" If you don't want active participation and interaction-just say so, but you original poll is basiically flawed. Let the UN have it? All well and good--except for one small detail. The UN's courageous blue beanies beat feet months ago to Cyprus after their Baghdad hq was hit, and vowed not to return until there was "a safe & secure environment to work within". Call em all you want-they ain't comin. It's one thing for the UN to go somewhere there is an obvious enemy to fight or contain, such as Bosnia or Liberia, but there's no way in hades they are going into a terrorist environment. They've been asked to return-several times, by several member states-the answer was 'not no but hell no'. (ok-it was "no-not at this juncture") They wouldn't even go into Sareaevo(sp) without US/NATO backing,same with Liberia. You haven't seen them in The Congo civil wars have you? Sri Lanka? Chad? Israel/Palestine? Behka Valley? Did they make a big effort to go to Haiti-or did they ask Uncle Sugar to go in first? Think about the inpotent bunch of basta***. They are policemen-not combatants. Ask em-they'll tell you the same thing. "Please leave a message at the beep-we'll get back to you when it's safe to do so..."
BTW-just who is it you think that makes up the bulk of the UN fighting force when it goes somewhere rough?

[namgrunt]

GSO has some points on how long we may have to commit. There are people asking the same questions. It is natural to worry about such things. That done, take another look.

Stop a minute and think about the fact that we didn't really lose the Vietnam war militarily. We lost it phycholigically, HERE AT HOME! It was public opinion which caused politicians to pull our leash and call off active involvement. Unfortunately, it happened just before the North Vietnamese were about to give up and throw in the towel. The dead men in Vietnam didn't die in vain. They died doing their duty. They accomplished their missions. It was the politicians at home, and the left wing, anti-war-at-all-costs demonstrators who cost us 58,000 lives. It was an expensive lesson, gentlemen. One which we should not repeat now.

Consider what will happen if we do pull out and hand the UN the whole ball of wax. Within a month, the insurgent forces will have regained some ground. At home, they would be bolstered by the same snot-nosed leftwing "intellectual" anti-war/anti-USA demonstrators. It is the 60s and 70s all over again.

Have any of you noted the sudden resurgence of dumb entertainment shows like M.A.S.H., with Alan Alda? And the turning away from USA themes in music in favor of return to the "good old days" with bumbleheads like Peter, Paul, and Mary, and the Beatles? Next thing you know, Haight Ashbury will be rebuilt and Acid will flow on the streets in a psychadelic retro movement.

The UN will use that "political capital" to force our government to let go of our victory and turn it into a defeat. We let down the Iraqi People once, in 1992. Lets not do the same thing again. Just because Saddam in in custody doesn't mean his followers are out of commission. SCREW THE UN!!! That "august body" is the reason Korea is an unfinished war, ...a STALEMATE!

If we are to continue to walk amongst nations of the world, we cannot just cut and run. If we do, we will find ourselves living in fear on our own streets, lest some foreign agent set off a bomb, like in Madrid. Right now, the radical Islamic fighters are concentrating their efforts in the Middle East, because they have the seed of a democratic government in their midst. They cannot ignore it, or it might spread. The mullas would find their power waning. If we pull out, they will crush the new government, and return the region to its old religious ways.

They will also be freed to focus attention on THIS nation, along with our "allies". Remember that we did NOT start this war. It was started as far back as 1983, one October day, when 241 of our fellow Marines and Hopsital Corpsmen were KILLED in Beirut by a "martyr". That is the kind of war we ARE engaged in right NOW! There will be no let up until one side or the other is defeated. I don't plan to give up, how about yourselves?

Semper Fi!

[usmc4669]

Thanks for your answer No.

but you original poll is basiically flawed

My question was Should we pull out of Iraq and let the UN take over? Not the reason for staying. I agree with what you wrote, You could have posted a thread asking why we should stay or pull out and let the UN take over. Anyway I know your reaason.

[namgrunt]

Oh yeah, I forgot to answer.
Sorry about that.

NO!

Semper Fi!

[MillRatUSMC]

We're back to the 70's as it was witness here in Chicago over the weekend.
5,000 idiots took to the street protesting our being in Iraq.
They were led by the Rev. Jesse Jackson.
Some where my hometown of Hammond, Indiana, sad to say.
The reasons stated of why we should not be in Iraq, stem from money could better be spent, on everytning under the sun, like welfare, education and rebuilding some of our infacture...roads, bridges etc...
I would be remiss, if I did not mention that there were counter protest to those protesting...the message of these counter protest was "Support the Troops" as it should be as long as we have troops in the field...

"A man or woman is measured
by the footprint,
he or she leaves behind"

"They were the best you had, America,
and you turned your back on them".
~ Joe Galloway ~ Speaking about Vietnam Veterans

TO THOSE WHO GAVE THEIR LIVES
THAT OTHERS MAY SAY PROUDLY
I AM A MARINE

Semper Fidelis
Ricardo

[25snakeman02]

No. Why do you ask?

[usmc4669]

Now tell me what is your reason that we should or shouldn't pull out of Iraq and turn it over to the UN.

[sgt.lane]

Too many lives have been lost to pull out now when the mission has yet to be completed. We cannot forget them or let them down. When all is done and the mission completed "we" all can then come home together.......................................... .......................Freedom in any nation is not free as we all know.

[sgtnorm48]

Originally posted by namgrunt
GSO has some points on how long we may have to commit. There are people asking the same questions. It is natural to worry about such things. That done, take another look.

Stop a minute and think about the fact that we didn't really lose the Vietnam war militarily. We lost it phycholigically, HERE AT HOME! It was public opinion which caused politicians to pull our leash and call off active involvement. Unfortunately, it happened just before the North Vietnamese were about to give up and throw in the towel. The dead men in Vietnam didn't die in vain. They died doing their duty. They accomplished their missions. It was the politicians at home, and the left wing, anti-war-at-all-costs demonstrators who cost us 58,000 lives. It was an expensive lesson, gentlemen. One which we should not repeat now.

Consider what will happen if we do pull out and hand the UN the whole ball of wax. Within a month, the insurgent forces will have regained some ground. At home, they would be bolstered by the same snot-nosed leftwing "intellectual" anti-war/anti-USA demonstrators. It is the 60s and 70s all over again.

Have any of you noted the sudden resurgence of dumb entertainment shows like M.A.S.H., with Alan Alda? And the turning away from USA themes in music in favor of return to the "good old days" with bumbleheads like Peter, Paul, and Mary, and the Beatles? Next thing you know, Haight Ashbury will be rebuilt and Acid will flow on the streets in a psychadelic retro movement.

The UN will use that "political capital" to force our government to let go of our victory and turn it into a defeat. We let down the Iraqi People once, in 1992. Lets not do the same thing again. Just because Saddam in in custody doesn't mean his followers are out of commission. SCREW THE UN!!! That "august body" is the reason Korea is an unfinished war, ...a STALEMATE!

If we are to continue to walk amongst nations of the world, we cannot just cut and run. If we do, we will find ourselves living in fear on our own streets, lest some foreign agent set off a bomb, like in Madrid. Right now, the radical Islamic fighters are concentrating their efforts in the Middle East, because they have the seed of a democratic government in their midst. They cannot ignore it, or it might spread. The mullas would find their power waning. If we pull out, they will crush the new government, and return the region to its old religious ways.

They will also be freed to focus attention on THIS nation, along with our "allies". Remember that we did NOT start this war. It was started as far back as 1983, one October day, when 241 of our fellow Marines and Hopsital Corpsmen were KILLED in Beirut by a "martyr". That is the kind of war we ARE engaged in right NOW! There will be no let up until one side or the other is defeated. I don't plan to give up, how about yourselves?

Semper Fi!

[sgtnorm48]

YOU SAID IT ALL BROTHER,I`M GETTIN THAT HERE WE GO AGAIN FEELIN !

[paul g fleming]

go for broke

[Sparrowhawk]

Now tell me what is your reason that we should or shouldn't pull out of Iraq and turn it over to the UN.


We are a nation that has proven to the world that we will go it alone if we have to. They did not support us, as they should have, because we have done what they should have wanted and should have supported. Human rights is reason enough for the UN to have gotten involved.


We shouldn't pull out because the job is not yet done. Fallujah has yet to feel the wrath of a Marine in combat.

If the UN had been involved with us we would have to wait and get their permission and approval to go into Fallujah.

We should not forget that Saddam offered comfort and aid to the man most wanted in the 1993 bombings in New York. He housed other terrorist known to have participated in terrorist acts against Americans.


Years ago, Saddam tried to assassinate former president George Bush, Sr.

Clinton, like the UN did not do anything about it, nor did the UN condemn Saddam's attempt at killing a former US President.


Maybe that was part of the reason why his son was out to get Saddam, it so, that was a good enough reason for me.

Our nation should never have to ask permission to set things right when we have been wronged. A confrontation with Saddam Hussein's regime was inevitable. Anytime a nation, or terrorist organization attacks, kills or takes an American hostage, Marines should be there.

Turning it over to the UN, would mean we would later have to get their permission to go back in, should some terrorist elements find refuge there.

[Sparrowhawk]

This time the United States is not going to pack up and leave Iraq as it did Somalia.

This time terrorism is being fought in the lions den.

[mrbsox]

NO, not, nadda, no way , he!! no, ....

You get my thoughts on it !!!

You have a wasps nest in the eaves of the house, it's way up high, you see them but they are 'up there' they don't bother you. The nest continues to grow.

Summer comes, the kids play, life goes on, the nest grows.

One day you, (or the kids) get stung. You get a stick and knock the nest down, they swarm and buzz and chase you, and maybe you get stung too.

Do you leave the nest along NOW, or ERADICATE the little ba$t@rds ??

You might get stung again !! The powers that be should 'back off', simply say;

OK General, put an end to it, and then, afterwards, start playing their political BS games.

If we leave, the rest of the world will see us turn tail and run like a spanked puppy. Will we be safe THEN ??

They want a Holy War ....... then tell Allah to set a place at the table 'for we shall smite thy a$$ with a vengence, so saith the MARINES'

Terry

[Flyin_Lion_1066]

No

Bush got us in, he should get us out, why should anyone else have to deal with his problem.

The UN would take years just to decide on the shape of the table where the first discussion of how to go about effecting a US withdrawal.

[sthartman]

I was hesitant about the US going into Iraq. Yet, now that we've committed, to withdraw would, first, dishonor those who have died freeing Iraq, and secondly, create an environment of chaos that the UN could never straighten out. We should stay the course!

[eddief]

We should stay for the oil. To the victor go the spoils.

[paul g fleming]

That sounds good

[Tracker]

We started this war because we thought they had WMD, then when we couldn't find them we switched to liberation from Saddam, now we are going for a democracy. The desire to be free must well-up from the people... the people must want to be free so badly that they will risk anything to be free, that's how our forefathers felt about freedom, remember history... no one came to this country trying to free us from England.
The question is this, are the lives of our blessed Marines and other armed forces personnel being spent for a people who really want to be free? Is our freedom really at stake here? I must admit, I truly don't know. I pray that our leaders do.