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thedrifter
02-24-04, 01:54 PM
Your papers, please




Next week the U.S. Supreme Court will hear a case to decide whether or not all Americans must have identification on them at all times. The case has been brought by a cowboy in Nevada who was asked to show ID while he was leaning against his pickup truck on the side of the road near his ranch. The police officer did not offer any specific reason why he demanded proof of identity. Having committed no crime, Dudley Hiibel, the cowboy, refused — and was arrested. He was later convicted for "Delaying a Peace Officer." In America, still a free country, citizens should not be required to provide identification papers at any whim of the authorities.
In the case at hand, Mr. Hiibel gave the arresting officer a chance to justify his request. But when asked why he demanded identification, the sheriff's deputy said only, "Because I'm investigating." When asked what he was investigating, the policeman responded with a wisecrack: "I'm investigating an investigation." The argument before the U.S. Supreme Court is whether requiring identification at any time is a violation of the Fourth Amendment's protection against unreasonable searches and seizures or an invasion of privacy by the government.
In a 4-3 decision, the Nevada Supreme Court ruled against Mr. Hiibel, stating that the Nevada statute requiring identification during a police investigation "strikes a balance between constitutional protections of privacy and the need to protect police officers and the public." The argument is that police cannot rule out whether or not a stranger is a suspect in a crime until he is identified. In the dissent, Justice Deborah Agosti argues that merely knowing an individual's identity does not enhance safety. Regarding the Fourth Amendment, she explains, "Anonymity is encompassed within the expectation of privacy, a civil right." The Fifth Amendment also guarantees the right to remain silent, which can be construed as the right to guard one's identity.
The cowboy-ID case is timely because of the momentum in the federal government to mandate various kinds of national identification cards. Even some conservatives, such as Arizona Sen. Jon Kyl, support the idea of so-called Social Security cards with biometric identifiers such as retina scans and electronic fingerprints. The Nevada high court's ruling notes that "the right to wander freely and anonymously, if we so choose, is a fundamental right of privacy in a democratic society." The openness of the prairie symbolizes this freedom. It would be a shame if cowboys were required to carry a driver's license to ride a horse while roaming the open range.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20040222-103500-1117r.htm

Sempers,

Roger
:marine:

greybeard
02-24-04, 07:09 PM
Next, they'll be wanting the horse's ID too.

BIGFISH
02-24-04, 07:18 PM
They already have I.D. 's , they are branded!

TMM54
02-24-04, 09:51 PM
Some of the police officers of the southwestern city where I once
resided used to make a practice of stopping us on the street, and
informing us "Anyone who doesn't have ID is going to jail, and
they did exactly that, took everyone who did not produce ID
(to the police officer's satisfaction) went to jail. This type of
nonsense will always go on, and we can complain about it,
legislate about, howl about it, but we will never be able to
stop this, as long as we collectively have free choice. Me, I moved
away from this type of nonsense. A solution? Beyond me.
Semper Fidelis, Tom Murray

Dragon Air
02-25-04, 07:03 PM
You only have the rights you are willing to fight for.

I wish I could remember who said it but it is more important to live it. I am not advocating the over-throw of the government or the use of violence against agents of the government... but sometimes both are necessary. After all, "The tree of liberty most be refreshed from time to time by the blood of martyrs and patriots."

The Supreme Court has long held that violence towards a government official that is done for protection against tyranny is acceptable. I won't bore you with all the case examples, but if you want them I'll post them.

leroy8541
02-27-04, 08:59 AM
Horse Papers? No joke if you don't have the proper "papers" for your horse in the state of Arkansas you will be required by law to kill it!! These papers are called Coggins papers they have to be tested annually by drawing blood from the animal and sent off to be tested, If they come back hot you are required by law to destroy the animal. I have been around horses my whole life and owned one that was 22 yrs old he had come back hot when he was nine, I kept him for another ten years he never even looked sick. After being approached by an officer of the law, and given the choice of putting Red down, or a jail sentence. I had to shoot him.