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08JarHead
01-29-18, 11:38 AM
Maybe some of you Vietnam era jarheads may get me pointed in the right direction. If a Corpsman was stationed at Parris Island treating recruits during Vietnam era, never served in a combat theater or was part of a Marine unit would you consider him to be a FMF Corpsman? He has no FMF device of any kind nor do I know if they awarded any such device or ribbon at that time. Asking for a friend. LOL!!!

FoxtrotOscar
01-29-18, 11:56 AM
He wouldn't rate an FMF device if he was only at a Recruit Depot.

He needed to be assigned to the Division and worked RAS or BAS to be eligible for the FMF device.

Fleet Marine Force (FMF) is an earned qualification. Only those sailors who are attached to forward-deployable Marine units are eligible to earn the FMF pin. The rigorous process takes months and consists of study, written testing and oral boards.

08JarHead
01-29-18, 12:01 PM
Interesting! I know a guy who was allowed to join the Marine Corps League as a full member. Based on what you have shared above, he would only be allowed to be an Associate member.

08JarHead
01-29-18, 12:27 PM
Thanks for the info FoxtrotOscar. I had found similar information and wanted to get confirmation that it was correct.

FoxtrotOscar
01-29-18, 12:31 PM
This involves serving one year with a Marine Corps unit (two years for reserves), passing the Marine Physical Fitness Test (PFT), a written test, demonstrating skills used in service with the Marines such as weapon breakdown and familiarization, land navigation, combat communications and an oral examination by senior enlisted sailors who are FMF qualified.

The Enlisted Fleet Marine Force Warfare Specialist designation is most commonly awarded to the hospital corpsman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospital_corpsman) (HM) and Religious Programs Specialist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Programs_Specialist) (RP) ratings, although it is also awarded to other sailors who support Marine Corps commands (e.g. Logistics Specialists assigned to medical logistics companies).

08JarHead
01-29-18, 12:35 PM
Did this apply to the Vietnam era Navy Corpsmen as well?

FoxtrotOscar
01-29-18, 12:47 PM
Did this apply to the Vietnam era Navy Corpsmen as well?

To the best of my knowledge from being of that era...

FoxtrotOscar
01-29-18, 12:48 PM
DanM is a former Corpsmen and will read and answer this sometime today... He's also from that time frame..

DanM
01-29-18, 02:15 PM
The FMF pin/device didn't come about until 1985. Viet Nam era was a strange time HM's needed to complete Field Medical training and receive HM-8404. There were those who were pulled out of their duty stations,equipped,put on a transport ship and received their weapons training off the fantail of the ship.

I believe the only thing they received was a Nam service ribbon with an EGA and their DD214 would have the records.

08JarHead
01-29-18, 02:24 PM
DanM, to my knowledge he was only stationed at PI and never assigned to a forward deployed Marine unit. He does not have a Vietnam service ribbon. I don't believe, by the information that you have provided that he would be considered a "FMF Corpsman".

08JarHead
01-29-18, 02:32 PM
All he has is the NDSM and Good Conduct ribbons. Nothing else. That alone makes me think he is just a Hospital Corpsman with no FMF qualification. I could be wrong...

FoxtrotOscar
01-29-18, 03:22 PM
Two different things here...

A FMF Corpsmen and the FMF Pin are two different things..

A Navy Corpsman assigned to the Marine forward Unit could qualify for a rating of FMF by wearing the designated Marine uniforms as long as he met the weight/weight requirements and kept his hair cut accordingly, and meet other requirements he could wear a small EGA on one of his ribbons showing he was an FMF Corpsman.

The Fleet Marine Force pin is something else different from my understanding..

08JarHead
01-29-18, 03:26 PM
Right FoxtrotOscar. But the big thing is the "Marine Forward Unit" issue. He was only stationed on Parris Island. He was not deployed or stationed with any other Marine unit. That's why I question him being a "FMF" Corpsman.

FoxtrotOscar
01-29-18, 03:42 PM
08 Jarhead,

Parris Island or MCRD SanDiego are not Fleet Marine Corps, nor are they forward Units.

He's not FMF qualified if he in fact did not serve in those distinct designated areas.

If he was in during the dates of 1965-75 he would be considered a Vietnam "Era" vet, but not FMF.

What years did he serve..?? And ishein fact claiming FMF "Doc" status.../???

That's my question... I'm assuming all this has to do with the MCL...

FO

08JarHead
01-29-18, 03:51 PM
He is a Vietnam "ERA" Corpsman. He has claimed FMF Doc status with regard to MCL. I'm not sure who did his DD214 Verifications. But, the way I see it, they dropped the ball and he should not be allowed to be a full member. I'm not sure what, if anything, the National MCL will do about it. But, in case something is brought up about it I want to have the right information.
Thanks for the information and education.

FoxtrotOscar
01-29-18, 03:58 PM
Understood...

I'm not real sure of what the MCL requirements are for membership, thus, I can't answer that one.

It wouldn't be the first time someone has "embellised" their service times either, just saying...

I still stay with the fact the Clinic's abord the Recruit Stations are not basis for FMF status...

08JarHead
01-29-18, 05:08 PM
MCL requires FMF designation for Corpsmen and Chaplains to be full members. If they do not earn the FMF designation they can only be Associate members. That means they cannot hold elected offices or vote.
Again, I appreciate the information.

Hammer
01-29-18, 05:12 PM
The answer is spelled out in the membership requirements for the Marine Corps League. Navy Corpsmen who has trained and served with the US Marine Forces (FMF) units in excess of ninety (90) days and have earnd the Marin Corps Device (cap) worn on the service ribbon, and those whom have earned the wafair Device authorized for FMF Corpsmen.

Those individuals who are not qualified to join a regular members may be accepted as an associate member.

I hope this answers this question. The person in question should have already been vetted by verification of their DD214, or by existing members who served with them.


As a member of the League; you can appeal to your Commandant, and if still not satisfied to the State Commandant.

These requirements were in place when I was the Judge Advocate for the my MCL, and I do not believe they have changed. However; check with your local JAG.

08JarHead
01-29-18, 05:19 PM
Hammer,

Here's the real kick in the ass. I am the Commandant of my MCL. However, the person in question has been a league member for several years and before I became a member. He's also held the Commandant position. I have consulted the National offices. There recommendation is to have the JA investigate and request the DD214 for review. This is going to get interesting to say the least.

Hammer
01-29-18, 05:31 PM
You've got a mess on your hands. Make sure you have the State Jag involved as well if you intend to pursue it. I've seen this type of thing before, and have worked through them, but messy. Odds are; the person in question, will not proffer up his DD214; but who knows? Good Luck! Let me know how it comes out

FoxtrotOscar
01-29-18, 05:34 PM
I'd say go for the review of the DD-214, the individual that started the MCL in this particular area and after 20+ years turned out to be a fraud...

It happens...

It's easy to offer an apology and be certain, then let it continue...

JMHO

FoxtrotOscar
01-29-18, 05:35 PM
I concur with Hammer...

08JarHead
01-29-18, 05:37 PM
Thanks guys. I may just let it ride. I don't want to cause embarrassment for him or create a hostile environment within the detachment. I'll keep y'all posted.

advanced
01-29-18, 09:09 PM
Why not just talk to him in private first. In the field, our Doc's were very precious to us, posers not so much. The problem is that most of us Marines do not know much about the Navy or Corpsmen. Many Corpsmen in the Nam were in the rear hospitals or forward stations, nothing wrong with that, but they were not embedded within our units. That's the difference.

doc h fmf
01-30-18, 12:24 AM
I was an FMF Corpsman from 1985-1990 served in Desert Storm. I dont Qualify for the FMF Pin but I earned the old FMF Ribbon ,did the same things Marine Corps PFT Esential subjects and weapon familiarzation retired rifle expert.

Mongoose
01-30-18, 05:39 AM
Doc, I don't know about, nor do I care about a FMF pin......your my Brother.

08JarHead
01-30-18, 06:54 AM
I have nothing but respect for the FMF Corpsmen I served with and the others that I have met through the years. But if someone did not earn the FMF designation then the should not be allowed to, 1st say they are and 2nd be allowed to be a full member of the Marine Corps League. While I respect their service, there are rules and regulations within the MCL and they should be adhered to. I do plan to have a one on ne conversation with him in private and then I will go from there.

FistFu68
01-30-18, 07:01 AM
Sounds like a Plan give that Pecker Checker hell lol