Too many Flags???

[FREEBIRD]

BY NEIL STEINBERG SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST Advertisement






Opening shot



When can we get rid of those black POW/MIA flags that have been flying under the American flag for the past 30 years? Or are we stuck with them forever? I'm all for honoring vets, but the black flag has always had negative overtones, having originated in Rambo paranoia centered around the belief that American prisoners were still in Vietnam years after the war ended and the government was for some reason concealing the fact. The flags, in addition to honoring sacrifice, also suggest, unfairly, something shameful about the country, or at least they did. Now vets say they are just a generic tribute to all the prisoners of war and missing in action. Perhaps. But there are better ways to honor U.S. service personnel. The flags will probably disappear one by one, as those who care passionately about them move on. A good thing, too.

I didnt type this, I copy/paste it from a news article
I DO NOT AGREE WITH ANY OF IT
FREEBIRD

[MillRatUSMC]

NEIL STEINBERG SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST can kiss my Marine REAR END!!!
It's IDIOTS like this, that will be glad that many veterans are now leaving us a rate of 1K per day.
I'm steaming here in Northwest Indiana, I might NEVER again buy a Sun-Times.
If he did some research, he would understand what that "Black Flag" as he calls it stands for.
Many went to answer the call from this nation.
Now they are missing or their remains are not accounted for.
Many of them were our Brothers in arms.
It is duty of this Nation to getting a accounting of what happen to them.
That "Black Flag" is a reminder of them and what this Nation OWES those that we list POW/MIA...

Semper Fidelis
Ricardo

[TracGunny]

Understood, FREEBIRD; the words are someone elses, not yours. I fly the POW/MIA flag to honor all, from all wars (declared or not), who remain unaccounted for. It has no negitive ramifications in my sight.

[MillRatUSMC]

http://thumb1.sac.overture.com/image/122012582
Here's Neil Steinberg image...
Ricardo it DON'T MEAN NUTHING...
It's one man opinion, that don't mean nuthing...
Let it go...
That what you sweat tons and heard cries of a young man dying and help carry the bodies of the wounded and dead a day on 18 October 1967...Operation Medina and the rear platoon of Hotel 2/1 got hit hard...

Semper Fidelis
Ricardo

[MillRatUSMC]

So Neil Steinberg could make statements such as this...
But my memories cause me to loose it...

Semper Fidelis
Ricardo

[MillRatUSMC]

The other "Flags" he talking about are yellow and orange flags that the village he lives in flag according to the condition posted by homeland security.
So that the reason for the statement of "Too Many Flags".
He just chose the wrong one to pick on.
It will rile many a veteran to the quick...

Semper Fidelis
Ricardo

[namgrunt]

I'd be interested in seeing Neil Steinberg's SRB. I wonder if one exists. If he was the one missing, but alive, how would he feel about some nincompoop back stateside summarily dismissing him?

"OO, gee! I don't like that color flag. Uncle Sam, can we get it yanked down?" Perhaps Mr Steinberg is tired of seeing the Illinois flag, or Old Glory. Does that mean they should also disappear? Personally, I'd like to see the UN flag disappear, but I'm sure our intrepid Sun-Times reporter would protest loudly.

His sentiments and suggestions are all horse puckey!

namgrunt

[MillRatUSMC]

Here's more of what he wrote in the article that appeared in the Chicago Siun-Times;

Opening shot

When can we get rid of those black POW/MIA flags that have been flying under the American flag for the past 30 years? Or are we stuck with them forever? I'm all for honoring vets, but the black flag has always had negative overtones, having originated in Rambo paranoia centered around the belief that American prisoners were still in Vietnam years after the war ended and the government was for some reason concealing the fact. The flags, in addition to honoring sacrifice, also suggest, unfairly, something shameful about the country, or at least they did. Now vets say they are just a generic tribute to all the prisoners of war and missing in action. Perhaps. But there are better ways to honor U.S. service personnel. The flags will probably disappear one by one, as those who care passionately about them move on. A good thing, too.

Warning!

Speaking of flags. The leafy suburban paradise of Northbrook, as well as other suburbs, tries to inform its residents of the current state of terrorist peril in a rather quaint fashion. They take the official warning color -- be it yellow or orange -- and fly it in the form of a flag, a plain square of color, under the American flag, on their civic flag poles. I live right by the Northbrook Village Hall and have noticed the flags, in fire engine yellow and land-a-plane orange.

I must admit, I didn't feel warned as much as amused. A village warning flag is only a notch or two down on the quaintness scale from a town crier or a lamplighter.

I called the village president, Mark Damisch, to try to find out who thought up the flags. He was enthusiastic, more or less. "I think it's a wonderful idea, though I don't know how meaningful it is,'' he said. "I just noticed them for the first time about a week ago.'' Damisch didn't know who decided to fly them -- he suspects the Department of Homeland Security recommended the flags in one of their many directives. But he isn't sure.

And while he said he laughed about the flags, he also found a note of caution in them. "It did remind me, even if for five seconds, that we are at war. I didn't think that's a bad thing.''

We are at war, aren't we? American soldiers are dying almost every day. It's amazing how casually people let that fall from mind. Maybe we could design a flag for that. A Doncha Know There's a War On? flag.

Semper Fidelis
Ricardo

[arzach]

This bozo was bombarded by email yesterday...give me a few, I'll find the only response I know of that he made...

S/F
Rick

[arzach]

Originally posted by arzach
This bozo was bombarded by email yesterday...give me a few, I'll find the only response I know of that he made...

S/F
Rick

Get this puke, he disrespects the POW/MIA flag, then thumps his chest about how much he cares..hypocrite? You betcha!
____________________________

The really sad thing about the waves of angry, bitter, vindictive e-mails
I've been receiving, is they are totally wrong about my attitude toward
vets. I've written about vets for years, very positively -- below are couple
pieces that got a homeless vet who died in the street back to his mother for
burial. I raised the money myself. I just don't like the flags -- I consider
them unpatriotic -- and am sorry that my feeling that way inspires such
hatred, hatred that does both you and your cause a disservice Headline:Homeless even in death // Veteran was entitled to help, but `too
proud' to seek itByline: NEIL STEINBERGSubject: HUMAN INTEREST;Keys: veteran; homeless; death; Vietnam War Pvt. McLynn Craig made it back from Vietnam, but the Chicagostreets did him in. Now his body lies unclaimed, waiting for somebodyto help him home to his final rest. Craig, 48, a former Marine, was found dead under a stairwell onthe West Side in the middle of December. Cause of death: pneumonia. Since being recovered, Craig's body has been at the Cook Countymedical examiner's office. "He was very nice, an educated young man," said Reatha M.Holder, a social worker at the Veterans Affairs West Side MedicalCenter, who tried to encourage Craig to enter programs and get offthe street. "But he was too proud to seek help," she said. "Others from thelounge tried to get him to seek help from the VA, because he waseligible." "The lounge" is Carol's Lounge, a tavern at 3858 W. Madison,where Craig used to work as a handyman. "We all knew him, but we didn't know much about him," saidQuentin Black, the manager at the bar. "He came from the South - hehas ties with people down there. He was in the Marines. He served twotours in Vietnam. He worked maintenance on a flight crew. He was abright man, kind of worldly for his young life." Black said that Craig used to sleep in the bar for a while. "But he took to the streets. Everything he owned was on hisback," said Black. "He was proud." Holder has tried to locate his family. His mother, Lena MaeCraig, is thought to live in Montgomery, Ala. He has children inChicago - two sons and a daughter, who is blind. But nobody seems toknow their names or where to find them. The medical examiner's office was going to release Craig's bodyto be buried in a pauper's grave at the potter's field in Homewood.But Holder intervened, hoping someone would come forward and claimhim. "He was helpful to everybody," she said. "I just couldn'tunderstand how he could let himself become a homeless veteran."Section: NEWSDay: SATURDAYPage: 6Headline:Homeless man's death touches family, strangersByline: NEIL STEINBERGSubject: HUMAN INTEREST;Keys: homeless; deaths; burials As concerned strangers were making plans Friday to bury McLynnCraig - the ex-Marine who became homeless and died huddling under aWest Side stairway in December - the sad news was being relayed tohis mother in Alabama. "They were neighbors of ours here in West Chatham - a finefamily, a wonderful young man," said Grethyal Gooch, 63, who readabout Craig in Friday's Sun-Times. "I was stunned. I called hismother. She was very distraught. They'd never been able to find him." Lena Mae Craig said her son took to the streets for reasons shedidn't understand. "That was just something he wanted to do," she said from herhome in Gadsden, Ala. "He was evidently dealt a bad something. Idon't know. He's been like this for three years, sleeping and stayingin taverns and doing work for food." She said Craig, who was 48 and served two tours in the Marinesand then one in the Navy, could have come home anytime to thepeople who loved him. "He has a blind son, 25 years old. I just told him (the news),"Craig said. "He loved his father to death. He has a sweet daughter,in Rock Falls. She's going down to ID his body at the morgue. He hastwo sweet children that love him and a mother and two sisters and abrother." Her only indication of what might have kept her son fromseeking help was his bitterness toward the government. "He said the government was rotten and he didn't want anythingto do with it," Craig said. "He didn't want any help, didn't want togo into the hospital." She said her son did not live in the streets because of anymental problems. "He was too smart in the head for that. He was inthe Marines," she said. "The Marines are not dumb people." Nor do they neglect their own. Throughout the day Friday,Marines - active, retired and reserve, as individuals and asrepresentatives of groups such as VietNow - called the newspaperoffering burial help. But it seems that Craig will be shipped home for burial inAlabama. "I want him shipped here," his mother said. "I want him here."
==================

[usmc4669]

When can we get rid of those black POW/MIA flags that have been flying under the American flag for the past 30 years?

When we get all of our MIA's and POW's back home. Dead or alive.

usmc4669

[usmc4669]

Go to the Chicago Sun-Times web site, you can read more of NEIL STEINBERG Editorials:

1. Reparations movement will accomplish nothing

2. In ancient Rome, as now, gays a convenient target

3. Single life is fine till about 30, then normal people marry

4. Why I love this photo of Dean going nuts

5. Put a man on Mars, but don't expect NPR to like it

6. Let's stop letting 'victims' grab the steering wheel

Looks like all he's trying to do is get your "GOAT"

Back to "FREEDOM OF SPEECH" My favororite subject. I don't agree with him but that's his rights.

[FREEBIRD]

This was my answer to the ******* who wrote when can we get rid of the Black flag???

I sent him an E-mail and invited him to Please, Please come to Washington DC on Memorial Day weekend, and Sunday come to the Vietnam Memorial and meet me at the wall, I will see to it he gets to be on Stage in front of all the vets there to ask them in person!!!! Last year we (Rolling Thunder) had over 750,000 Harleys and no telling how many vets, mostly VietNam, there. I think he would get a good a s s whooping if he even thought of asking that question on this day??? The man is really Goofy if you ask me, kinda like Kerry, I hope everybody that votes for Kerry gets just what they deserve...... the word has been out there, people just need to read and listen, it cant all be wrong. Kerry is for Kerry and thats my opinion...Guess we'll see come November.
and like the story goes, I guess we fought for the rights for this clown to print what he belives in, right or wrong, its his right, given to him by the fighting men of this country!!
FREEBIRD
USMC 69-76

[Phantom Blooper]

Got me an even better Idea. Write the editors cause all he has to do is hit delete and it all goes away. Now if their letters to the editor get full they will have to take notice. So write letters@suntimes.com Semper-Fi!! "Never Forget" Chuck Hall:marine:

[usmc4669]

Phantom Blooper:
Thanks for the email address, I posted in in Google Search engines and got a list of all of the news papers editors email address.

[1981jarhead®]

All I can say is, If I ever meet that stupid S.O.B. I'm going to show him why he has the right to freedom of the press, and freedom of speach, I'm also going to show hm why I have the freedom of Reach and exactly how far I can reach when I reach out and shove his commi teeth down his pinko fag throat!

[Toby M]

to 1981Jarhead: I'm thinking you have a problem holding back your true feelings, eh? Maybe someone can help you overcome your shyness...(more power to you!!!)

[radio relay]

Almost had a divorce over this issue. When I sold my house and moved in with my wife, after we got married a few years ago, the first thing I did was put up a flag pole in the front yard. Well, she wasn't real happy about me digging up her yard for a flag pole, but went along with it. However, when I ran up Old Glory, with the POW flag under it, she told me she didn't want the POW flag, because it was "ugly". I literally came unglued. Read her the riot act about how it represented the sacrifice of all who have bled and died on foreign soil, for her freedoms, and that if the flag came down, I was outta here!

She knew I was serious. I'm still here, and the POW flag flies under my American flag, every day of the year, and is lit up at night!

God Bless America, The Marine Corps, and every man and woman who has ever served!!!

SF :marine:

[usmc4669]

1981jarhead®:

Favorite Food: You eat women?

If you are a member of Rolling Thunder® Oh4, then I guess you do. LOL

[usmc4669]

Profile For FREEBIRD:

Favorite Food SEAFOOD/ anything fishy/ (__V__) You must eat women also. LOL

[snipowsky]

You tell em brother! Don't hold back tell em what you really think!

[FREEBIRD]

To: USMC4669, some eat at the Y, some don't, some stay in the SUCK for 20 years and only make Gunny??? Like I said in another post, thats why we fight for freedom of speech, its to give those who do not know better the right to open their mouth!!
since you like reading other peoples profile, if you need to know anything else about me thats not there, please feel free to ask, I will answer!!!
20 years??? Damm thats a long time!!!

FREEBIRD

OH, PLEASE EXPLAIN WHAT BEING A MEMBER OF ROLLING THUNDER HAS TO DO WITH EATING (_v_) ???
i'M CONFUSED!!!:no: :confused:

[usmc4669]

FREEBIRD:
Right, only made Gunny, damn shame that I didn't make Col. But I was a bad boy a few times, climb the latter, fall off the latter and had to climb again, I wasn't talking about the Y, you did mean the YWCA didn't you? As for reading your profile I found out somethimg about you. Don't get so touch'e. For a 54 year old 7 years in the Marines I thank you for serving my Country;
Semper Fi Marine
Gunny

[tophor]

I think this neil steinberg s***bird should keep his opinion to himself, we served this country honorably, ALL OF US!! The POW/MIA flag is here to remind us of our brothers in arms that have not returned from their tour of duty to defend our rights and freedoms, that people like this steinberg P.O.S takes for granted each and everyday. He doesn't deserve to make the comments that he did about our POW/MIA flags flying with pride for our fallen brothers in arms.

[snipowsky]

I sent an email to "Mr. Neil Steinberg" today! It says this!

WE HOPE YOU BURN IN HELL YOU PIG BASTARD!

FROM,

ALL AMERICAN VETERANS

Think I was a little harsh on the guy? lol I'm just practicing my 1st Amendment Rights of freedom of speech like he is! Heh Heh!

You too can email him: nsteinberg@suntimes.com

[Phantom Blooper]

Todays column in the Sun-Times February 11th 2004







Collateral damage



It has been a disturbing week, for me. In fact, in my 20 years of newspapering in Chicago, I can't recall anything more disturbing. Last week, I wrote about the black POW/MIA flag. I thought -- as with the Bush button -- I was directing my fire at a slur against the government. But whatever I thought I was shooting at, I ended up hitting a lot of proud soldiers and grieving relatives, and I'm sorry for that.

I got 500, maybe 1,000 e-mails -- I lost count. Many took my opinion -- those flags seem to say something negative -- and twisted it into the most extreme, treacherous, anti-vet attitude they could imagine, a blanket damnation of history, heroism and the country itself. Their replies couldn't have been stronger had I suggested we dig up Arlington Cemetery and build a theme park. Full-bore outrage mixed with the harshest personal attack. Lots of name-calling. Lots of out-of-the-blue anti-Semitism. More death threats than the typical column generates.

Which puzzled me. Because, if I came across someone who I thought was completely wrong about something, and I wanted them to understand why they are wrong, I don't think I would begin my argument by telling them what a loathsome moron they are and how I'm going to kill them.

But that is a logical argument, and as I read through the responses -- and I must have read hundreds -- I quickly understood that this is not an area of cool logic, but of hot passion, of raw, hard emotion, built up through loss and suffering and acts of heroism met by a shrugging public, a shrugging public that I had volunteered to become the poster boy for. My opinion was a stick I had shoved into an open wound.

That's what bothered me most of all. It wasn't being called names -- I get called names every day. I am a Jew, so the intended insult doesn't sting. It was who was doing the calling and why they were flinging those terms. Being accused by vets of being anti-vet hurt because I'm not ignorant of history -- though I did not realize that the black flag isn't a relic, but means something vital to all sorts of people today, people who don't think that the government is a spider's nest of treachery.

I'm not the guy those vets were attacking. I'm the guy who trots his kids onto the front porch on Veterans Day and has them say the pledge with their hands over their hearts and then tells them about how the Rangers went up those cliffs at Normandy into the teeth of the Nazi machine guns, and that's why we get to loaf around all day.

For those who managed to write civilly, despite their feelings, thank you, it was an education. And for those who heard a twig snap and began firing into the darkness of cyberspace, you may not know it and certainly won't accept it, but you hit a friend.

[MillRatUSMC]

Giving him the benefit of the doubt.
He's should have check the content before speaking.
That flag not only represents those Missing in action from Vietnam, but all the missing from all our recent wars and other missions.
Yes, he did stick a stck in an open wound.
And the outcry that he recieved was dued to the pain suffered by many...

Semper Fidelis
Ricardo

[usmc4669]

I think that Mr. Steinberg got the message and now we should get on with our lives. I have said things that has hit a nerve and some of you have express you feelings. If I have offended any one of you I apologize. I don't think that little black flag will ever be retired.