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View Full Version : GySgt to receive MOH for Hue City, 1968



FoxtrotOscar
01-12-18, 03:05 PM
Marine Gunny Gets Medal of Honor Nod for Battle of Hue Actions <br />
<br />
With backing from Defense Secretary Jim Mattis, paperwork to upgrade the Navy Cross awarded to then-Marine Gunnery Sgt. John Canley...

Zulu 36
01-12-18, 03:34 PM
Long, long overdue.

I've studied the history of the Battle of Hue extensively over the years. I always thought that Gunny Canley defined the epitome of a Company Gunnery Sergeant as well as a Marine Warrior.

Mongoose
01-12-18, 04:01 PM
As I have stated many times....there were so many Marines that warranted decorations of Valor, you couldn't count them all. During Nam, your act of Valor had to be witnessed by an officer to be recommended for a decoration of Valor.

Deduke
01-13-18, 08:53 AM
Not necessarily. See: L/cpl Miguel Keith. Awarded the MOH for action in a CAP. There were no officers in CAP platoons. The highest ranking Marine allowed was E-5.

Zulu 36
01-13-18, 08:59 AM
That's true about not needing officers as witnesses on acts of valor for medals. The requirement is two American witnesses minimum.

FoxtrotOscar
01-13-18, 11:10 AM
As with everything in the Military there are guidelines and criteria, thus I present the link to the Navy and Marine Corps Awards Manual, the definitive straight scoop to what awards require what criteria and witnesses, recommendations...

http://www.marines.mil/Portals/59/Publications/SecNavInst%201650.1H.pdf

advanced
01-13-18, 02:59 PM
I was told awhile back that at Hue with us taking the citidel the 1/5 only received 4 bronze stars and 1 silver star within the entire battalion. That's totally hard to believe the way my brothers fought. Just saying.

Mongoose
01-13-18, 04:02 PM
That's true about not needing officers as witnesses on acts of valor for medals. The requirement is two American witnesses minimum.

Not true Zulu.... if it was damn near every Marine Grunt in Nam would have at least one. All it would take is your 2 buddies to tell what you did....next week they do it for you....so on so forth. After a while everyone has a medal of Valor. That's why it takes an Officer to have observed it. You see on the news, men being awarded medals of Valor years after his service brothers have petitioned Congress, they don't just take any word of mouth comment.. If the evidence of your Valor is solid, as far as the evidence shows, then your Co or Bn. Commander can put you in for a Valor decoration.

Mongoose
01-13-18, 04:03 PM
I was told awhile back that at Hue with us taking the citidel the 1/5 only received 4 bronze stars and 1 silver star within the entire battalion. That's totally hard to believe the way my brothers fought. Just saying.
Russ, that's because it had to be observed by an Officer. At least during Nam.

Zulu 36
01-13-18, 04:40 PM
Billy, a friend of mine got a Navy Cross in Nam. His two witnesses were a SSgt and another L/Cpl. Closest officer to their fight was probably an NVA officer, who may or may not have survived. I've seen the paperwork.

SSgt Jimmie Howard got the MOH. His two witnesses were both L/Cpls. I've seen the paperwork.

A lot of guys didn't get awards because their only witnesses died before they could make written statements, whether they were officers or enlisted. Sad, but true.

The awards manual of the time (which I have read), says nothing about only officers being allowed as witnesses to acts of valor. However, an officer was needed to approve and sign the award recommendation. That was usually the unit CO or XO. They did not have to actually witness the act, just approve the rec and kick it upstairs.

Mongoose
01-13-18, 07:39 PM
Why was we never told that?? Why would the very men who was in the thick of the battle, not given that info Chris. Why, as I have stated before, seen many acts of Valor as well as other Marines with me, never told we could be witness's. Why was it never mentioned. What you have said is the first time I have ever heard that. If I'm wrong, I will be the first to say so......

Mongoose
01-14-18, 07:21 AM
Chris.....after researching...I will take my foot out of my mouth long enough to say.....I could not find anything to back up my comments. I don't know why I thought what I did, but, your statement about 2 witnesses is correct. That means an apology is in order, brother.

Mongoose
01-14-18, 08:02 AM
Having read extensively about awards for Valor in the past 24 hours.....I have found some very interesting facts. During the Viet Nam War, there was many Bn. Commanders, that issued orders that all officers under his Command, be awarded a medal of Valor. A citation was written, signed and passed up for approval. The SS and the BS, was termed an officers good conduct medal. In many cases, the officers and Senior Enlisted personal in the Rear Echelon, had 4 times more valor decorations than those troops actually engaged in Combat. There have been honest officers that have said, the events on their citation for the SS, never happened. In some combat units in Nam.....the Bn. Commander set a criteria, that so many decorations be issued each month, regardless of truth. They thought if they didn't have quite a few citations of valor, their unit would be looked upon as not engaging the enemy as they should. The citations would be in proportion with the enemy body count. In summary, there was many, many men overlooked for their valor, because the criteria for some decorations of valor was an everyday event for most Grunts in combat. Thus, you have to curtail it, to keep it meaningful. This is an INSULT to the Marine Grunts who served in Nam.

FistFu68
01-14-18, 08:55 AM
Screw Em Billy,Medals don’t feed the Bulldog

Zulu 36
01-14-18, 09:14 AM
Chris.....after researching...I will take my foot out of my mouth long enough to say.....I could not find anything to back up my comments. I don't know why I thought what I did, but, your statement about 2 witnesses is correct. That means an apology is in order, brother.

No need to apologize, Billy. Enough BS went on over awards, not just in Nam either. I wouldn't be surprised at all if many troops weren't told of the officer only witness tale to cover their abuse of the system.

In WWII, if you read or watched The Band of Brothers story, when the 101st Airborne jumped into Normandy, the officers were told that only one Medal of Honor would be approved for the whole division for the D-Day jump (actually, one for each division participating in the D-Day campaign). This was true too, although the 1st Infantry Division managed to finagle two.

When Dick Winters led the part of Easy Company to take the German artillery battery at Brecourt Manor the day after the jump, he was recommended for the Medal of Honor. He was denied that because an MOH had already been approved for the D-Day campaign in the 101st, and received the Distinguished Service Cross instead. A LtCol battalion commander received the MOH for the 101st. From my research, it was well deserved, but you know how that can go.

Also in WWII, my dad was recommended for the Navy Cross by his platoon commander, a mustang 1stLt with extensive battle experience. The witnesses were a couple of junior enlisted men, same as my dad was. Dad had gone out under heavy machine gun and grenade fire to rescue his patrol leader, who turned out to have been killed at the beginning of the ambush. Dad then helped the rest of his patrol kill the Japanese machine gunners. It was bumped down to a Bronze Star w/"V", plus a Purple Heart (one of his two official Hearts) at the review board at FMF-Pac. He was endorsed as approved at regiment (6th Marines) and division (2d), but not at FMF-Pac. He didn't get a battalion level endorsement because his platoon, scout-snipers, worked directly for the 6th Marines regimental CO.

The Marine Corps has been notoriously stingy with valor awards throughout it's history though.

Deduke
01-14-18, 10:03 AM
Having read extensively about awards for Valor in the past 24 hours.....I have found some very interesting facts. During the Viet Nam War, there was many Bn. Commanders, that issued orders that all officers under his Command, be awarded a medal of Valor. A citation was written, signed and passed up for approval. The SS and the BS, was termed an officers good conduct medal. In many cases, the officers and Senior Enlisted personal in the Rear Echelon, had 4 times more valor decorations than those troops actually engaged in Combat. There have been honest officers that have said, the events on their citation for the SS, never happened. In some combat units in Nam.....the Bn. Commander set a criteria, that so many decorations be issued each month, regardless of truth. They thought if they didn't have quite a few citations of valor, their unit would be looked upon as not engaging the enemy as they should. The citations would be in proportion with the enemy body count. In summary, there was many, many men overlooked for their valor, because the criteria for some decorations of valor was an everyday event for most Grunts in combat. Thus, you have to curtail it, to keep it meaningful. This is an INSULT to the Marine Grunts who served in Nam.

Douglas MacArthur (Dug-out Doug) received these medals:
MOH
DSM with 4 bronze oak leaves
DSC with 2 bronze oak leaves
DSM (Navy)
Silver Star with silver oak leaf
DFC (flying)
Bronze Star with v
Purple Heart with bronze oak leaf

Mongoose
01-14-18, 11:59 AM
MacArthur, took a flight over a small part of North Korea. In other words, enemy territory. He gave himself a DFC for this action, but, the pilot, co-pilot, navigator and other flight personal, received nothing.

Deduke
01-14-18, 01:19 PM
Our hero, LBJ, served a total of 5 weeks in the military, rising to the rank of Navy Lt. Cmdr. On his only flight in the combat area of the Pacific, the plane he was supposed to be on, but wasn't, was shot down. Dug-out Doug awarded him a Silver Star for gallantry. One week after returning to the world, he was a civilian back in the House of Representatives.

Mongoose
01-14-18, 03:43 PM
Well....it goes back to what I read this morning.....a medal for Valor, was an Officers Good Conduct Medal.

oldtop
01-16-18, 09:48 AM
unfortunately for us, the ARMY during Vietnam cheapened the Bronze Star Medal to the equal of a bag of popcorn.... Army officers were given the BSM as an END OF TOUR award (instead of something like a Army Achievement Medal) .... even enlisted clerks that were the ones that had to do the write ups managed to write themselves up for a BSM as an end of tour award... one reason why today the VA requires a BSM with V to accept the award as combat related.... some people have always "played the system", but Vietnam was just about the "height" of the "get your ticket punched and be promoted up" system for officers....

Zulu 36
01-16-18, 09:56 AM
unfortunately for us, the ARMY during Vietnam cheapened the Bronze Star Medal to the equal of a bag of popcorn.... Army officers were given the BSM as an END OF TOUR award (instead of something like a Army Achievement Medal) .... even enlisted clerks that were the ones that had to do the write ups managed to write themselves up for a BSM as an end of tour award... one reason why today the VA requires a BSM with V to accept the award as combat related.... some people have always "played the system", but Vietnam was just about the "height" of the "get your ticket punched and be promoted up" system for officers....

The Army still cheapens the Bronze Star. You get one automatically if you are KIA along with the Purple Heart.

USMC 2571
01-16-18, 09:59 AM
ARMY...ain't ready to be a Marine yet

Mongoose
01-17-18, 06:00 AM
Now Dave....some of our greatest Military personal was Army......included here is a picture of Army greatness......during this soldiers 19 tours to Iraq and Afgan, he was nick-named the extinguisher.32229