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thedrifter
02-05-04, 07:23 AM
Gender Bending Reaches New Low With Medal Inflation



To: Hack

More Cases of Medal Inflation...

Read the part about how Spc. Karen Guckert, saved two troops injured in the blast and won a U.S. Army Commendation Medal for Valor for giving them first aide. Just like the female soldier who returned fire from an armored HUMVEE (was awarded the BS with V Device and a purple heart for hurting her back) and the female soldier who restrained an Iraqi man at a checkpoint (awarded a ARCOM with V device) this is more than just medal inflation, it is a slap in the face to men who received such medals for true bravery and also died due to their valor. Purple Hearts are now awarded in Iraq for being hurt, not for being hit by an enemy weapon or stabbed by an enemy blade.

S.G.


Female U.S. Soldiers Under Fire
Associated Press
January 28, 2004

TIKRIT, Iraq - The roadside bomb near the main American military base here killed one woman soldier, made another a hero, and turned attention to the new role American women are playing in the war in Iraq.

The nature of the conflict, with U.S. soldiers facing guerrillas, not conventional troops, has blurred military traditions, and put usually rear echelon troops such as the military police - with their large contingent of women - under direct enemy fire, along with the infantry, special forces and other front line troops.

Although women are barred from front line units, more than 10 American women soldiers have died in Iraq since U.S. led troops invaded in March. Many others have been wounded.

On Oct. 1, the dangers to women soldiers in Iraq struck home for the U.S. Army's 4th Infantry Division when Pfc. Analaura Esparza Gutierrez, 21, of Houston, was killed as a roadside bomb struck her Humvee near Takrit, ousted dictator Saddam Hussein's hometown and a center of resistance to U.S. forces.

She was the first women from the division to die in Iraq. At the same time, the quick thinking and bravery shown by Gutierrez's friend and fellow support soldier, Spc. Karen Guckert, saved two troops injured in the blast and won her a U.S. Army Commendation Medal for Valor.

"We were deeply moved when we lost Analaura Esparza," Lt. Col. Steve Russell, commander of the 1st Battalion, 22nd Infantry Regiment of the 4th Infantry Division, said. "This is not to say we are not moved when we lose a male soldier, but her loss deeply affected us in additional ways."

But Guckert and some other women serving in Iraq have different feelings about the dangers facing women soldiers.

"Infantrymen say to me they couldn't handle seeing a female getting hurt because it would remind them of their sister, aunt or wife," said Guckert, 24, of Yakima, Wash. "I understand their point, but at the same time we are all soldiers and we can all die for our country. So we can't we fight for our country?"

Many female soldiers like Guckert acknowledge that the physical stresses of combat, which include carrying packs close to their own weight for long distances or lifting men wounded in action, might prove too tough for some women.

But most women, particularly military police soldiers who have been trudging Iraqi streets and conducting house raids for months, say this conflict has provided them with the same tasks as any infantryman.

"Any soldier out here is at risk, whether they are male or female or infantry, military police or anything else," said Lt. Amanda Lee Dorsey, a 25-year-old military police officer from Hickory Hills, Ill.

On Nov. 30 - a day that has gone down in recent army folklore as "Bloody Sunday" - military police, joined by infantry, armored and engineer forces, waged a half-hour gunbattle in Samarra with 60 Iraqis firing rockets and machine guns. The insurgents were trying to ambush Iraqi security trucks transporting money to Iraqi banks.

U.S. officials say 54 Iraqis died, including 36 killed by American military police. One woman soldier was credited with killing three of them. No U.S. soldiers died in the clash, but six were injured, including a woman.

"When it came down to it, my female and male soldiers of the military police were all fierce and killed many," said Lt. Col. David Poirier, commander of the 720th Military Police Battalion.

Sgt. Maj. Angela Wilson, 49, the senior ranking enlisted military police soldier in Iraq, has witnessed great attitude shifts in the military during her 29 years of service.

"I remember when it was optional for women to fire an M-16 rifle during basic training," she said. "We also had to learn how to wear makeup properly in the field.

"Now basic training is the same for all people, male and female. I am waiting for the day when they say women can enter the special forces. It doesn't mean everyone can do it, but it means that people should be given the opportunity to be assessed on their own merits."

Poirier said the female soldiers have been invaluable during house raids - a staple task of the military police - in which they have calmed Iraqi women in targeted homes and searched their belongings without causing offense. Iraqis find it highly objectionable for male soldiers to deal with women.

Lt. Alexis Marks, a platoon leader, said when she was going through West Point, she was constantly being told that the military police was the "chick's infantry."

"But in the MPs, nobody sees a gender difference," said the 24-year-old from Melbourne, Fla.

One of her soldiers, 23-year-old team leader Cpl. Casey Williams, said she is unfazed by risks faced during her patrols.

"I think it's cool to be in a dangerous position. It's kind of fun," Williams, from Algiers, La., told the AP while driving to Samarra. "In the MPs, it is the closest women can get to combat."

Sound Off...Do women belong in combat? Join the discussion.


Copyright 2004 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

http://www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=Special%20Reports.db&command=viewone&op=t&id=135&rnd=833.0450511105665

Sempers,

Roger
:marine:

kentmitchell
02-05-04, 04:45 PM
Well, if I didn't learn anything else I know now what's wrong with the army. As the female Sgt. Maj. said, "Training is the same for men and women."
Wonder how much they cut back on the men's training to equalize?
They never learn, do they?

namgrunt
02-06-04, 12:51 AM
Grrrr! This raises my hackles. We already have too many women in close proximity to combat situations. That is the result of feminist elements in special lobby groups and Congress pushing for equal power. Combat isn't the place to achieve PC equality, but some people don't see it that way.

To quote one female soldier, SPC Karen Guckert:
"Infantrymen say to me they couldn't handle seeing a female getting hurt because it would remind them of their sister, aunt or wife," said Guckert, 24, of Yakima, Wash. "I understand their point, but at the same time we are all soldiers and we can all die for our country. So we can't we fight for our country?"

In her first sentence, she gives you the answer as to why this is a bad idea. It places extraordinary stress on the male soldiers of the unit. They become more prone to taking stupid risks to rescue a wounded female, because she represents a nurturing figure from their upbringing.

To put it more bluntly, if I were an enemy sniper, armed with a silenced weapon, and facing American combat forces, I would presume the smallest soldier I saw to be female. I would wait until she was in widest open ground, then put a round through her upper thigh, just above the kneecap, breaking bones and the joint. She would go down, and the rest of her patrol would dive to cover. Then I would pick off the male soldiers, one by one, as they took turns trying to rescue her. I would use their natural instinct, to protect the opposite sex, as a weapon against them.

Yes, we can all die for our country. Women died by the hundreds and thousands in the WTC attack on 9/11. They didn't choose to step into harms way, and were innocent victims. However, mixing women into combat forces introduces wildcards into strategies and tactics which weren't necessary before. Will work parties be assigned by gender, and would that be considered sexist? Can men and women share a perimeter at night without any fraternization? Would carrying prophylactics be encouraged, or prohibited? Will relieftubes be surrounded by shielding ponchos to give privacy? Can a 110 lb. woman soldier pull a 225 lb casualty onto her shoulders, retrieve both weapons, and perform a fireman's carry back to safety?

We cannot form all female ground combat units, or Amazon Battalions. The first time they get cut off and surrounded, other units will attempt to save them, perhaps at the eventual cost of the mission. If we are not prepared to follow through on the mission, then we don't belong on that battlefield.

The Marines were the only branch which resisted the harping voices pushing political correctness on the armed services. And even we have begun to relent. God help us if we fall prey to this disease. We have remained strong precisely because we have spurned the cocktail commandos in their efforts to "modernize" our concepts.

As for medals, they should be given out only for their original purpose. You don't receive a Purple Heart for spraining your ankle or pulling back muscles while struggling with an opponent. You get linament or Hot-Ice to ease the soreness. You don't give a Silver Star, or a Bronze Star w/Combat V, just for coming under fire. You award them for actions "Above and Beyond the Call of Duty", and only getting shot at does not qualify. This is more Political Correctness at work, and it is BS.

Well, I know I'm going to be sleeping in the doghouse tonight. I'm going to stop, before I end up at Motel 6 (...they leave the light on for you).

namgrunt

leroy8541
02-06-04, 04:18 AM
My thoughts exactly!! Well said NamGrunt.

USMC_1983-89
02-06-04, 12:12 PM
I tend to agree. Look at the Jessica Lynch situation. Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying that what poor Jessica Lynch went through wasn't both horrifying and traumatic; she herself admitted that she "hunkered down" in the back of the hummer while the others returned fire and she "was terrified". She also stated that she NEVER fired one round from her weapon.

That doesn't sound like Bronze Star material to me.

Additionally, she was injured in a VEHICULAR ACCIDENT, while under fire, but was not directly hit by weapons fire. This is a more "gray" area and I'm sure her superiors contemplated the awarding of the Purple Heart. The accident was surely caused as a result of being fired upon; maybe thatís how they justified it!

While there is no doubt that she deserves the POW medal, the other two are questionable.

MillRatUSMC
02-06-04, 02:13 PM
http://www-perscom.army.mil/tagd/tioh/Awards/PH1.html

http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features/patc/purpleheart/gallery/merit.jpg
The Badge OF Merit as designed by General George washington

http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features/patc/purpleheart/pheart1.jpg
The Purple Heart of the present.

Criteria: a. The Purple Heart is awarded in the name of the President of the United States to any member of an Armed Force who, while serving with the U.S. Armed Services after 5 April 1917, has been wounded or killed, or who has died or may hereafter die after being wounded;

(1) In any action against an enemy of the United States;

(2) In any action with an opposing armed force of a foreign country in which the Armed Forces of the United States are or have been engaged;

(3) While serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party;

(4) As a result of an act of any such enemy of opposing armed forces;

(5) As the result of an act of any hostile foreign force;

(6) After 28 March 1973, as a result of an international terrorist attack against the United States or a foreign nation friendly to the United States, recognized as such an attack by the Secretary of the department concerned, or jointly by the Secretaries of the departments concerned if persons from more than one department are wounded in the attack; or,

(7) After 28 March 1973, as a result of military operations, while serving outside the territory of the United States as part of a peacekeeping force.

(8) After 7 December 1941, by weapon fire while directly engaged in armed conflict, regardless of the fire causing the wound.

(9) While held as a prisoner of war or while being taken captive.
b. A wound for which the award is made must have required treatment by a medical officer.

Once while underfire in Vietnam, my company commander called for illumination.
I was the Weapons Platoon leader, so I was by the mortars and we were firing as fast as possible.
He asked for more illumination, but we short of rounds.
They came in canisters that required a church key to open.
It was taking too long, so I grapped the church key and langed.
That resulted in my cutting a finger badly, I called for the Corpsman to see if he could take care of it.
He stuck his head under a pancho, than he informed me that it required stitches, but he couldn't put in a block to ease the pain.
I told him do whatever it takes.
He sewed my wound with two stitches.
later he informed me that I qualified for the Purple Heart because we were underfire by a hostile force.
I than told him "No Way" it was my own stupidity.
I would not dishonor that medal earn by some at the loss of their life.
Some now a days don't see it that way...

Semper Fidelis
Ricardo

PS Many a day, I still see the result of those two stitches...

Super Dave
02-06-04, 02:18 PM
I think they get a medal if the wipe theit A** correctly..

namgrunt
02-06-04, 02:34 PM
MillRat
I've heard of Purple Hearts awarded to office pogues who cut themselves while diving for cover during rocket attacks on headquarters complexes. It isn't right, but it does happen. What I don't understand is the Bronze Stars w/Combat V being awarded to all seven of the Army prisoners liberated by Marines. I understand only one man actually returned fire. He was given a Silver Star. Hell, in that case, everybody ever placed under fire should be decorated. It doesn't sit right with me.



Geez, Super Dave, I was taking a sip of coffee, as I read your post, and spewed it all over my desk. It went up my nose too, from laughing. Doggone! :D

Semper Fi!
namgrunt

Super Dave
02-06-04, 02:42 PM
Sorry about that namgrunt..

But if you notice...not too many of 'em get the medal..another reason they stink...

kentmitchell
02-06-04, 05:39 PM
Maybe they should have given them medals for CLEANING their weapons.
Reports say they were all dirty and only got off a round or two.
The female part of this stuff is new. Army not being up to snuff isn't.
Never forgot a story one of my sergeants in Japan told of Chosin Reservoir. They picked up a few doggies who had escaped the massacre on the east side of the reservoir.
One asked a Marine where the bugout route was.
The Marine pointed to the back wall of his fighting hole.
'Nuff said.

greybeard
02-07-04, 01:36 AM
Had some things to say here, but namgrunt nailed em all. Well said!!

However, here's whut the girls are gonna tell us.
"That's yall's problem!! Ya'll are gonna have to change your attitudes and accept us for the soldiers/Marines etc that we are and quit thinking in those terms."

Yeah-righto!! That's not going to happen anytime in the near term evolutionary chain of events that I can see. Maybe in 10 millenium-IF they lose their breasts-reproduction is all done in a test tube-and they all look like Janet Reno........Heck-if they all looked like that, I'd have to shoot em myself. :banana:

namgrunt
02-07-04, 11:55 PM
I agree with Greybeard. We aren't living in a "Private Benjamin" or "GI Jane" universe. While we have encountered female soldiers in places like Vietnam, it was always as irregular forces, aka Viet Cong. The North Vietnamese Army had no females in its combatant ranks that I heard about.

One subject not talked about, but which is apropos, concerns what happens when a female is captured by enemy soldiers. We've heard that Jessica Lynch was treated well by her captors, yet she also says she cannot remember that time clearly.

I also recall that two women were captured during the first Gulf War. Original reports made no mention of personal safety after their capture. And I'm not aware if official documents exist stating otherwise. However, I did hear, much later, that both had been "abused" by the Iraqis while in custody. Whether this is just an "urban legend" or not is still in question.

Men captured in wars normally don't get "abused" sexually by their captors. Women often do get this sort of treatment, whether or not they are combatants. Viet Cong were known to strike fear into villages by killing the Chief, and raping his wife and daughters before killing them too. The implied message was a strong lesson to the remaining villagers.

We are fortunate we didn't have females in combat billets then, or we might have found them in similar condition if captured. How would the country have reacted if such stories filtered back through the hostile US media? It was bad enough just losing our sons, brothers, and fathers.

namgrunt