PDA

View Full Version : Females in Infantry??



sagadracasm
06-18-17, 01:05 PM
I am a poolee and am currently trying to decide my MOS. Either infantry or Combat Support. I honestly just want to have fun during my first contract then LAT move. I have no physical limits; cross-fit, roman greco wrestling, and competitive weightlifting is what my life is pretty much. I just want feed back, honestly, what is really in the eyes of Marines, that a female like myself enlisted into the 0300 field?

FoxtrotOscar
06-18-17, 01:14 PM
Honestly, many will be somewhat supportive of whatever you choose..

On a serious note, many on this site are Vets in the 03 field and have issues with women in that role...

It's extremely demanding physically, filthier than can be imagined, backbreaking, and emotionally draining...

I understand you will say your into physical fitness, and such, but it's not the same...

This is just my opinion and mine alone at this point..

Women can be in virtually any field if 100% qualified, just not GRUNTS/0300...

That's a bad mix.

Other's will come on and add their perspectives...

FO

m14ed
06-18-17, 03:42 PM
Shirley -You Jest.

m14ed
06-18-17, 03:44 PM
Shirley -My money is on you that some way or another you maybe able to start a third or fourththread on this line of thinking....

Mongoose
06-18-17, 04:37 PM
#1 Sweetie.....you have to make it through boot-camp. It's not all physical, by any means. Been plenty of physical fit boots can't handle the mental adjustment.

Tennessee Top
06-18-17, 06:58 PM
Not a grunt, and never seen combat (although I was shot at by irate Haitians but never returned fire). Will leave the women in combat debate up to the combat veterans here.

I was a Battalion Career Planner for awhile so know how lateral moves work (every lat move request in our battalion came across my desk). If someone is leaving you to believe getting a lateral move approved after your initial contract is easy, or something you can plan on happening, they are not being sincere with you. There are a lot of rules, the stars have to align just right, timing is everything, and the folks at the Manpower Management Branch at Headquarters Marine Corps have the final say. Because you feel like you want to try/do something else as a Marine your next enlistment is not a consideration.

Was not a grunt. But 22.6 years as a Marine taught me there is nothing fun about life in the infantry. In fact, it can be a miserable experience.

You have some misconceptions about being a Marine which is understandable for a poolee. I give you credit for coming here and asking your questions as that's what this forum is for.

Good luck.

Mistybluelady
06-19-17, 11:07 AM
Not that my 2cents is worth anything, however... up here in Canada if a female is apply to the military or police or fire or ambulance , the fitness qualifications are much less than what a gentleman is expected to be able to do. Personally I do not think thats fair. If you want to do the job you should have to be able to endure the same treatment, training and fitness levels. My personal feelings are women dont belong where they can not tow the line the same as the men. Women are hormonal and react differently then men... and in situations where your team needs to rely on you, you need to be able to pull your weight and respond rather than react.......as for fun? Im not sure combat, conflict or conditions are fun, and the potential to perhaps have to kill or be killed is probably not fun either.. just ask any Vet...

oldtop
06-19-17, 02:23 PM
if it's "fun" in war you're looking for, DO NOT join the Marine Corps... stay home and play your video game warfare.... grunts are a bunch of filthy, crude, abusive, tired, hungry, arrogant, self righteous, fiercely loyal, BEAUTIFULLY MAGNIFICENT BASTARDS ever created, and I, like every other Marine that has been an 03, or served in a Marine Infantry unit think that there are no finer human beings on this planet.... most also think that a Marine Infantry unit is NO PLACE for a female.... not because of any "anti female" sentiments (we LOVE the female of the species, LONG TIME), but because it is not PRATCICAL for WOMEN TO BE INFANTRY TROOPS... they lack the physical strength, stamina, and mental disposition to be grunts... they also face certain hygienic obstacles that are simply impractical to address in the field situations that grunts mostly live in..... JMHO....

chulaivet1966
06-19-17, 02:31 PM
Not that my 2cents is worth anything, however... up here in Canada if a female is apply to the military or police or fire or ambulance , the fitness qualifications are much less than what a gentleman is expected to be able to do. Personally I do not think thats fair. If you want to do the job you should have to be able to endure the same treatment, training and fitness levels. My personal feelings are women dont belong where they can not tow the line the same as the men. Women are hormonal and react differently then men... and in situations where your team needs to rely on you, you need to be able to pull your weight and respond rather than react.......as for fun? Im not sure combat, conflict or conditions are fun, and the potential to perhaps have to kill or be killed is probably not fun either.. just ask any Vet...

My take:
I agree with every word.
Expressed clearly and rationally....excellent response.

I say no women in any direct ground combat/units.
Label me anything you like....I don't care.

I tend to think my opinion is against consensus here and certainly means nothing in the PC world we currently live in. :)

Semper Fi to you MBL!

Carry on....

advanced
06-19-17, 03:11 PM
My take:
I agree with every word.
Expressed clearly and rationally....excellent response.

I say no women in any direct ground combat/units.
Label me anything you like....I don't care.

I tend to think my opinion is against consensus here and certainly means nothing in the PC world we currently live in. :)

Semper Fi to you MBL!

Carry on....
I agree as well with both of the last 2 posts. I'm a fighter and a lover, problem is that if women were in my unit I might become confused as 2 which one was to be dominant at any given time (pun intended).

Mongoose
06-19-17, 03:47 PM
I guess I'm different.....I believe any woman that has the heart to make it through the training, should be given a chance. I think women would know that their life depends on the lives of their brother grunts, and would do what's expected, when it's expected. Women have been warriors ever since the Viking days, when taken seriously, and treated with respect.

Mistybluelady
06-19-17, 09:01 PM
Well I guess I'm against concensus too, a few of you know me, I'm not weak, I'm very strong, mentally and physically . I have had a gun in my face, been threatened at knife point, jumped into a bar fight with guys, I'm no light weight ....but I still cannot do the job of a man, the are physically stronger....changing the rules so a woman can do what prove herself equal? Then make them lift,carry,support and be able to match a man equally with no special standard just for women. It's bs....we do not belong in infantry. I'm sure if there are many ladies left here I'm not going to be popular, but it's my opinion and even myself could potentially put my team at risk, and no amount of politically correct or human rights infringement will ever change my opinion.

advanced
06-20-17, 03:47 AM
Totally correct. There were times when I was so worn out that I knew I couldn't go another step. BUT I ain't no quitter. I always just asked to be able to hear the 1st shot, I knew I could then go into action and kill more gooks. Being a grunt ain't for the weak hearted or weak minded.

If anyone doesn't pack the internal gear that's required for Marine Corp Infantry they are weeded out quickly. If some kind soul fails to weed out the weak in training don't worry, the gooks will do that job. My buds and I used to always like getting in fng's, that meant they would get less of us. Just saying.

Mistybluelady
06-20-17, 07:19 AM
Im not really sure if the Marines have a different standard for women? here where I live , my husband is a first responder (firefighter) by the time you get dressed in bunker gear and add your oxygen you have added close to 50lbs of extra weight, then the hose its heavy add water pressure and your looking at probably another 50lbs or so. But it burns my butt that the ladies do not have to meet the same requirements, in training and to pass the physicall testing prior the maximum they have to be able to carry,drag lift is almost 40lbs less than the men? A first year female at her first fire, went up the ladder and came promptly back down and sat on the grass in full panick mode, and I am suppose to feel comfortable with her as my spouses back up, hell no. This same female had one year in then followed by 3 maternity leaves each a year, and now has Captain rank? BS BS BS...... on a closing note, if a man has to earn the title of Marine so therefore should a women earn it but meeting the same exact standards.

bugeater68
06-20-17, 07:29 AM
I don't think it's about women being weaker. I think it's about men being jealous of their manhood. It would be unthinkable that a woman could keep up with you mancho men. God forbid a female being seen as your equal. You will go to any length to protect your superior image of yourselves. Get over it, there are women just as crazy, mean and tough as any of you were.

Mistybluelady
06-20-17, 07:40 AM
you are just everywhere arent you? and always the negative.. its not a macho attitude its opinions, if you open your eyes and read you will clearly see Billy and Mike agree , and a few of us do not... i certainly do not have a macho attitude and my opinion is no a women belongs in combat. Its to bad you cant state your opinion without bashing someone else s...

oldtop
06-20-17, 09:29 AM
don't feed the TROLL, Misty....

Mistybluelady
06-20-17, 09:46 AM
lol yep you are correct honey....

Marine1955
06-20-17, 12:20 PM
#1 Sweetie.....you have to make it through boot-camp. It's not all physical, by any means. Been plenty of physical fit boots can't handle the mental adjustment.

Ditto..

advanced
06-20-17, 12:34 PM
I don't think it's about women being weaker. I think it's about men being jealous of their manhood. It would be unthinkable that a woman could keep up with you mancho men. God forbid a female being seen as your equal. You will go to any length to protect your superior image of yourselves. Get over it, there are women just as crazy, mean and tough as any of you were.
bugs, the jealousy regarding your manhood comes from you not being as large as we are. Fact is that men never even think of the bs that you put out. You have an inferiority complex big time. What were you in the MC, a mess cook?

irpat54
06-20-17, 02:34 PM
I don't think it's about women being weaker. I think it's about men being jealous of their manhood. It would be unthinkable that a woman could keep up with you mancho men. God forbid a female being seen as your equal. You will go to any length to protect your superior image of yourselves. Get over it, there are women just as crazy, mean and tough as any of you were.

the Koo-Koo's are coming out of the woodwork now... were you bullied in the Corps? or are you even a Marine?
what's the matter with you, you are a typical liberal, don't care for the lives that you throw into the fray as long as you can say "gosh look at me and how inclusive I am".
you don't give a rat's butt as to how many die due to your arrogant self-riches PC crap.

Mongoose
06-20-17, 04:16 PM
What I am saying is, if a female has the heart and physical endurance to make it through the training, without being given a handicap........She can share my fighting hole with me. Women are just as passive about our Country as we are. Russ, a real Grunt would not allow another grunt to sexually assault a woman Marine, if he did, I'd shoot both of 'em. I think you would too. Most snuffies are respectful to Women Marines, because they are real men. They have already proven themselves to be lovers and warriors.

Hammer
06-20-17, 05:40 PM
Well Billy I generally agree with you on most subjects. However, as I posted before; this is one where we disagree. It appears now that Bugs thinks like you or you think like him, so I know damn well that my thinking is correct.

Mongoose
06-20-17, 06:52 PM
Brother Mitch, you get more and more like the progressive left......It's my way or no way, no debate accepted, is a sure sign you have gotten on board with Nancy Pelosie and gang. However, taken your advanced age into account, you probley can't help it brother. I still got your back you old fart. I guess I'll be taking care of you and Russ until you turn into dirt.

FoxtrotOscar
06-20-17, 07:02 PM
I'm with Hammer on this issue...

Putting women with men in the Marine Grunt field is a social experiment and it will take away from the Mission, meaning Grunts don't need another distraction...

Not to mention the "HYGIENE" field issues....

Mistybluelady
06-20-17, 07:15 PM
Billy? Really? Women may have been warriors in history prior, but do you not feel as men, who are genetically programed to be hunters and protectors could possibly now with a women thrown into the mix get sidelined with the male human reaction of protecting the weaker sex (yes I said weaker) and be comprised . Plus going back to this original young ladies post of just wanting to have fun! Fun! Wtf.
Perhaps she should look at some war history filmes. Fun is the beach, video games not the seriousness of protecting a country and your fellow brothers.

advanced
06-20-17, 08:29 PM
Misty, Billy still spends much of his time imagining that he's some warrior of long ago fighting with the amazons. In his more "normal" moments he's really quite a nice guy. But he does have his moments, quite often I must admit.

Hammer
06-21-17, 05:48 AM
Well I sure as hell don't want to be on the side of Bugs! As far as it having to be "my way or no way"; comes from my time in the salvation army Once we let those women start ringing those bells; we went down hill.

Also, my favorite song is "My Way".

Mongoose
06-21-17, 08:16 AM
I think some of you may be taking my comments out of prospective. What I'm saying is not bound in concrete. I said "if" she meets all the requirements, which very few if any will achieve, she should be given a chance. More than likely she will not be able to maintain her role as a grunt, after she finds out it's not a woman's world. From my own experience, I have seen men, in the infantry, that should be peeling potatoes. I have know grunts that I wouldn't trust to cover me. I have seen grunts that were cowards. So if a female can hack it and gain your trust and respect.....she could share my fighting hole.

advanced
06-21-17, 08:57 AM
I'd be for the soft and cuddly and pretty ones, but in training company only.

What most people don't know is that in country the enemy has a keen instinct on picking out the weak ones or those who lack confidence, skill, and weeding them out. That's why you often hear me say thank god for the fng's or they would have gotten more of "us."

Mistybluelady
06-21-17, 09:42 AM
whats that saying? if your being chased by a bear you dont have to outrun the bear you just have to be faster than the person behind you....

bugeater68
06-22-17, 04:24 PM
Women, should never be in the Infantry. They do a great job as support, but need to let the men do the face to face fighting.

Marine1955
06-22-17, 05:21 PM
Women, should never be in the Infantry. They do a great job as support, but need to let the men do the face to face fighting.


Wrong Man
A couple of Battalions of Women Marines would be great,why Have you ever run up against a women in her cycle she'll kick ass and take names what better way to keep our men safe...Right Ladies !!!

Mistybluelady
06-23-17, 06:38 AM
ok bugs... your just all over the map, one post it was all well in good for women to be there, it was the guys ego's that were hurt, now your on the other side of the fence.. you cant have it both ways.. or maybe you dont know which side of the fence you are on? ;)

doc h fmf
06-23-17, 07:30 AM
I would like to give my point of view as a neuteral party,being a Doc,every woman Marine I worked with were outstanding they were my Ambulance drivers and they always helped me every way they could. I would also be involved with the war exercises with the POGS and some of those girls were outstanding so,I think if everyone could consentrate on their field duties and not having your harmones taking over I think they would do a good job.

Semper Fi and Godbless you all my brothers and sisters.

advanced
06-23-17, 09:53 AM
I would like to give my point of view as a neuteral party,being a Doc,every woman Marine I worked with were outstanding they were my Ambulance drivers and they always helped me every way they could. I would also be involved with the war exercises with the POGS and some of those girls were outstanding so,I think if everyone could consentrate on their field duties and not having your harmones taking over I think they would do a good job.

Semper Fi and Godbless you all my brothers and sisters.
Doc, Grunts are creatures that excrete excess hormones all over the place. I think water will run up hill before what you suggest happens. This country wants and needs men with big sticks (pun intended) taking out the enemy with no mercy. The old saying "Life takers and heart breakers" wasn't a description of the POG's now was it.

doc h fmf
06-23-17, 03:54 PM
Okay Russ Iam sorry shame on me,especially being with the grunts for 5years,I should know better then that ,thank you for the wake up call.

Semper Fi my brother.

Stephen Doc Hansen HM3 FMF.

Mongoose
06-23-17, 04:07 PM
Doc, don't pay any attention to Russ, he's just pizzed because buggs has taken over as #1 ....

besides, did any of you know that 2,000,000 women has served in Iraq and Afgan, to date. 180 have been killed in action over there.

rlbarry
06-26-17, 05:42 PM
Do you think you could use a slit trench in the field?

madsox
06-27-17, 09:13 AM
I got nothin' to add here, I just had to say it's been great fun reading through this thread and catching up!

Nothing gets the hornets stirred up like the old "women in the infantry" question!

:beer:

Mongoose
06-27-17, 04:08 PM
Andy, what we say don't matter anyway.....the Government will do what they want.

advanced
06-28-17, 03:53 AM
And don't forget Andy, we want babysons in the infantry, not old women. No offense to old women.

bugeater68
06-28-17, 08:42 AM
Women are just as much a fighter as men are, but are not suited for combat.

advanced
06-28-17, 10:50 AM
bugs, what's the mos for messcooks?

Kurt Loadeater
07-06-17, 09:20 PM
I was an 0311. I met female Marines that were tougher than some of those that were in my unit. Hah, it'd be funny if we held tryouts where our under performing male Marines would get kicked out of the infantry and replaced with women if they couldn't hold their spot.

Honestly though I think officer types are more worried about all the extra sex related issues that would take place more than anything else...

irpat54
07-07-17, 08:11 AM
Honestly though I think officer types are more worried about all the extra sex related issues that would take place more than anything else...

Bingo, that's the big issue right there, not to mention the logistics, and like one article I read, (not sure if it was here or on one of my news feeds) where officers are telling Woman to "get used to seeing naked men in the showers at the same time" that would lead to a lot of extra hat racks.

Mongoose
07-07-17, 08:40 AM
What ever happened to " suck it up " ?? You saying as Marines, we can adapt and overcome everything but Women in the Infantry. I don't care if it's military of ever day work places....there has and always will be those who are weak willed and do not have mental stability. Also, there are those who think it's manly to sexually abuse women. If you can't control your sexual urges, what else can you not control.....you do not need to be in a grunt unit , where others lives are at stake, if you have no self control. If you are in fact that weak, find another mos suited to your inability to adapt.

USMC 2571
07-07-17, 09:06 AM
Well said, Billy.

sagadracasm
07-07-17, 08:21 PM
ahahha i wrestled for 4 years and yes i have been forced in to shower/use the same bathrooms with the guys because the other teams took the girls locker rooms. like coach always told me, sharing is caring! i never got sexually or verbally harassed, i personally just took it as them picking on me like they were my brothers. with dad as a retired Marine of 20 years, i kinda learned to grow a thick layer of skin and laugh at what the guys say to me. honestly, story of my life

DanM
07-07-17, 08:36 PM
Not to mention the "HYGIENE" field issues.... [/SIZE]

No different hygiene field issues for females than males .............. there is medication for everything.

Mongoose
07-08-17, 08:54 AM
Thanks Dan....good point.

FoxtrotOscar
07-08-17, 10:03 AM
Throwing more "MEDS" into the fray as a solution is not a real solution, just another chemical for issues down the road....!!!

Kegler300
07-08-17, 06:52 PM
Just say no to females in the infantry.

irpat54
07-08-17, 10:25 PM
Throwing more "MEDS" into the fray as a solution is not a real solution, just another chemical for issues down the road....!!!


Just say no to females in the infantry.

Agree 100% here.

Zulu 36
07-09-17, 07:45 AM
When I was in the Air National Guard, I was in a Security Police unit that specialized in air base defense. Essentially we were a light infantry unit that also did military police work on the side.

We had a gal in our law enforcement squad who was in superb physical condition. She was a PT nut. She also worked as a corrections officer at the county jail. She was a really nice person and a tough nut. I'd stand back to back with her in a fight.

If we were in the field with just regular fighting kit on, Donna could go all day, But when we trained with body armor, rucksacks, etc, she was done after a day. As much as she tried, she hit the wall and that was it.

We ended up putting her in the CP as the field phone and radio operator. She excelled at that as she was calm in an emergency, had initiative, and could multi-task, but we did miss her in field as she was also calm, cool, and collected there. In a defensive position, Donna would do very well, but not if she had to tote the full load out.

Essentially, I am saying that even with a female who kept herself in great shape and had all the desire in the world, infantry work is too much physically for them. It breaks men down, it will only be worse for females. My back and knees are daily reminders of those days (with police work thrown in).

USMC 2571
07-09-17, 08:28 AM
Billy had a good point, and Chris does here, too----I can see both sides. But in fifty years no one will care, as transgenderism will probably be mandatory. That way both sexes, same person, can give this a try.

advanced
07-09-17, 08:29 AM
You all seem to be missing the main point of mixing women in the infantry. I can imagine that the women that would be drawn to the infantry would be very aggressive, just won't quit types, and won't take NO for an answer. And that refusal to take no for an answer is the main problem of mixing such women with men in such close quarters.

Like I have personally experienced time and time again in the past I can just imagine these aggressive women coming on to young Marines, who by the way are attempting to do the right thing. Because of their aggression these women just won't accept no for an answer as they become sexual predators taking advantage of helpless young Marines over and over again like they took advantage of me for years.

I know I was taken advantage of more than once by aggressive women and till it happens to you it's easy to say it could never happen. I can just see it happening over and over again by different women who will just pass you along to each other as if you were a toy. I'm not proud of how I was abused over and over again by strong willed women, but now you know my deepest fears regarding women in the infantry.

USMC 2571
07-09-17, 08:30 AM
Russ, that's a shame that you were abused like that, and probably never complained about it til now. You have my deepest sympathies, brother.

Mongoose
07-09-17, 09:39 AM
When I was in the Air National Guard, I was in a Security Police unit that specialized in air base defense. Essentially we were a light infantry unit that also did military police work on the side.

We had a gal in our law enforcement squad who was in superb physical condition. She was a PT nut. She also worked as a corrections officer at the county jail. She was a really nice person and a tough nut. I'd stand back to back with her in a fight.

If we were in the field with just regular fighting kit on, Donna could go all day, But when we trained with body armor, rucksacks, etc, she was done after a day. As much as she tried, she hit the wall and that was it.

We ended up putting her in the CP as the field phone and radio operator. She excelled at that as she was calm in an emergency, had initiative, and could multi-task, but we did miss her in field as she was also calm, cool, and collected there. In a defensive position, Donna would do very well, but not if she had to tote the full load out.

Essentially, I am saying that even with a female who kept herself in great shape and had all the desire in the world, infantry work is too much physically for them. It breaks men down, it will only be worse for females. My back and knees are daily reminders of those days (with police work thrown in).

Chris, here's the kicker, brother......we are talking about a war situation. I never, nor did any Marine I knew, ever carried anything other than the bare essentials. Water and ammo. In a combat situation the more weight you carry, the bigger the target and it's a waste of energy. Never happens in a combat situation.

Mongoose
07-09-17, 09:43 AM
You all seem to be missing the main point of mixing women in the infantry. I can imagine that the women that would be drawn to the infantry would be very aggressive, just won't quit types, and won't take NO for an answer. And that refusal to take no for an answer is the main problem of mixing such women with men in such close quarters.

Like I have personally experienced time and time again in the past I can just imagine these aggressive women coming on to young Marines, who by the way are attempting to do the right thing. Because of their aggression these women just won't accept no for an answer as they become sexual predators taking advantage of helpless young Marines over and over again like they took advantage of me for years.

I know I was taken advantage of more than once by aggressive women and till it happens to you it's easy to say it could never happen. I can just see it happening over and over again by different women who will just pass you along to each other as if you were a toy. I'm not proud of how I was abused over and over again by strong willed women, but now you know my deepest fears regarding women in the infantry.
Russ, I know what you mean brother.....however, I learned how to talk my way out of being raped by those aggressive type women. I would just tell them I had the Claps. Worked every time but once. She answered that it didn't make any difference, because she had it also.

Deduke
07-09-17, 11:41 AM
There are different rules now. According to Bing West, CAP Marine who has been in the State Dept for years, there is a reason why we see so many amputations and fewer wounds from gunshots and shrapnel. All Marines in the field are required to wear all their protective gear-all 80 pounds of it. If they are wounded because of failure to wear it they can be written up. As a kicker, everybody above them can also be written up.

Mongoose
07-09-17, 03:50 PM
Throwing more "MEDS" into the fray as a solution is not a real solution, just another chemical for issues down the road....!!!

Mike, there is no reason for a solution......if the Government decides this is the way it will be, then we suck it up and make the best of it. The Government does not have a suggestion box, brother.

Mongoose
07-09-17, 03:56 PM
31631