General W. Clark

[cadetat6]

General W. Clark
So General Clark and his money buddy George Moore dont think much of National Guard F-15 Pilots and men and women. I can see Clark now in a battle --attack, ,dont attack,, attack,, dont attack,, will someone from Hollywood tell me what to do?

WW2 Veteran


__________________

[ivalis]

It's Michael Moore and that is not what he said at all.

A national guard pilot that does't show up for training is of no use to the military.

[cadetat6]

An investigation by the Boston Globe newspaper concluded that Mr. Bush was an excellent National Guard pilot who served portions of his six-year commitment by putting in more active-duty time than required, but there is a year toward the end of his time of service during which there are no records of his having shown up for required meetings and drills.
In November of 1969, the future president completed flight training and was assigned to become an F-102 fighter pilot assigned to Ellington Air Force Base.
Until his fifth year of National Guard duty, there is no question about his service.
The Globe says those who served with Mr. Bush regarded him as a top pilot and that he spent more time on active duty than was minimally required for reservists.
In the first four years of of his six-year commitment, he spent the equivalent of 21 months on duty.

[greybeard]

Gen Clark lost his job because he did show up, but failed to respond to his superiors in Washington-Shelton and Cohen, when he was NATO's Allied Supreme Commander..
Made the same mistake another supreme commander made. (hint-it wasn't Ike)
IMO, Gen Clark doesn't think much of anyone besides himself.

[namgrunt]

By accepting Michael Moore's endorsement, Wesley Clark showed he has his head where the sun doesn't shine. Moore is one of the most vitriolic America haters in the Hollywood stable. His next project is to go around the world and film why the rest of the planet hates America. I don't think much of a presidential candidate who would accept such venemous support.
Wesley Clark may as well change his first name to "Ramsey", since that is who he sounds like.
I don't trust the man. His former superior officers don't trust the man. Michael Moore trusts him, and that qualifies him as a cluster****.

namgrunt

[ivalis]

It's the last two years of Dubya's service that raises questions. Essentially, he didn't serve them. While Michael Moore's "Deserter" comment may have been over the top, there is a kernel of truth to it.

[P. M. SHEEHAN]

He's no Dwight D. Eisenhower so don't sweat him. The secret of a good leader is not only his own knowledge and wisdom, but the intelligent people around him , and Ike had that. Remember the expression "you are known by the company you keep" and that applies to every smart one of us. So long Wes!

[GunnerMike]

Originally posted by ivalis
It's the last two years of Dubya's service that raises questions. Essentially, he didn't serve them. While Michael Moore's "Deserter" comment may have been over the top, there is a kernel of truth to it.

Saturday, Jan. 24, 2004 3:05 p.m. EST
Bush 'Desertion' Charge Debunked
Did President Bush "desert" the military, as radical filmmaker Michael Moore insists he did?
Presidential candidate Gen. Wesley Clark suggested during New Hampshire's presidential debate Thursday night that the facts on whether Bush ran out on his National Guard unit in 1972 and 1973 are in dispute.
But in the months before the 2000 presidential election, the New York Times pretty much demolished this Democratic Party urban legend, a myth that first surfaced in its sister paper, the Boston Globe.
"For a full year, there is no record that Bush showed up for the periodic drills required of part-time guardsmen," the Globe insisted in May 2000, in a report Moore currently cites on his Web site to rebut ABC newsman Peter Jennings' debate challenge to Clark that the story is "unsupported by the facts."
"I don't know whether [Moore's desertion charge] is supported by the facts or not," Clark replied "I've never looked at it."
The Times did, however, look at it, and found that Bush had indeed served during part of the time the Globe had him AWOL - and later made up whatever time he missed after requesting permission for the postponement.
In July 2000 the Times noted that Bush's chief accuser in the Globe report, retired Gen. William Turnipseed, had begun to back away from his story that Bush never appeared for service during the time in question.
"In a recent interview," said the Times, "[Turnipseed] took a tiny step back, saying, 'I don't think he did, but I wouldn't stake my life on it.'" In fact, military records obtained by the Times showed that Turnipseed was wrong and that the Globe had flubbed the story.
"A review by The Times showed that after a seven-month gap, he appeared for duty in late November 1972 at least through July 1973," the paper noted on Nov. 3, 2000.
The Times explained:
"On Sept. 5, 1972, Mr. Bush asked his Texas Air National Guard superiors for assignment to the 187th Tactical Recon Group in Montgomery [Alabama] 'for the months of September, October and November,'" so Bush could manage the Senate campaign of Republican Winton Blount.
"Capt. Kenneth K. Lott, chief of the personnel branch of the 187th Tactical Recon Group, told the Texas commanders that training in September had already occurred but that more training was scheduled for Oct. 7 and 8 and Nov. 4 and 5."
After the Bush AWOL story had percolated for months, Col. Turnipseed finally remembered another glitch in his story: the fact that National Guard regulations allowed Guard members to miss duty as long as it was made up within the same quarter.
And, in fact - according to the Times - that's what Bush did.
"A document in Mr. Bush's military records," the paper said, "showed credit for four days of duty ending Nov. 29 and for eight days ending Dec. 14, 1972, and, after he moved back to Houston, on dates in January, April and May."
The paper found corroboration for the document, noting, "The May dates correlated with orders sent to Mr. Bush at his Houston apartment on April 23, 1973, in which Sgt. Billy B. Lamar told Mr. Bush to report for active duty on May 1-3 and May 8-10."
Yet another document obtained by the Times blew the Bush AWOL story out of the water.
It showed that Bush served at various times from May 29, 1973, through July 30, 1973 - "a period of time questioned by The Globe," the Times sheepishly admitted.

[ivalis]

Why won't the prez release his service record?

[yellowwing]

Its a red herring that Michael Moore couldn't resist. If they push it any further, than this weeks front runner John Kerry will be equally scrutinized. These guys are real pros.

Three years ago Katherine Harris would have taken one for the team if things really went sour in Florida. If CIA Director George Tenet could be 'handled', then what's the Florida State Secretary to them?

[kentmitchell]

Did Michael Moore ever serve in the military?

[kentmitchell]

Also, I have trouble with Kerry's collaboration with Hanoi Jane.
It might not bother younger guys as much, but she did some despicable things to POWs in Hanoi and got away with it.
Well, she paid somewhat, being married to Ted Turner for awhile.
Those two deserved each other. And Kerry maybe.

[namgrunt]

I wonder if Gen. Clark got the Dixie Chicks endorsement? He could use some celebs with better looks than Michael Moore, or Ted Danzen and Mary Steenburgen.

Maybe he could get Janet Jackson to sign on his bandwagon. She could show up in another "tear-away" costume and really wow the campaign workers. You can bet he would have plenty of news coverage the next day.

namgrunt

[greybeard]

This is what Gen. Clark said when he met with the Manchester Union-Leader and was questioned by the newspaper's Joseph McQuaid:

Quote:

Clark: I don't think you should get the law involved in abortion--

McQuaid: At all?

Clark: Nope.

McQuaid: Late-term abortion? No limits?

Clark: Nope.

McQuaid: Anything up to delivery?

Clark: Nope, nope.

McQuaid: Anything up to the head coming out of the womb?

Clark: I say that it's up to the woman and her doctor, her conscience. . . . You don't put the law in there.

[troop901]

Originally posted by ivalis
Why won't the prez release his service record?
But why wont Dean release HIS records as the Gov of Conn. ? The Bush question has been asked aint it. How bout da Dean question, oh, ya say well, that aint relevant to this. I gots ya on this one IV LOL. yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee willlllllllllllllllllllllllll take califorina annnnnnnnnnnnnnndddddddddddddddddddddd whatever, BUSH did the freakin job that no one else would do!

[troop901]

glad to see ya still kickin IV, cant get on da chat to argue with ya no more, its an AOL thing, probally caused by da freakin greeks lmao.

[ivalis]

Glad to see your smiling demenor is still with us troop.

Speaking of sealed records. Lets begin with the records of the Reagan & George the first's administration.

I'll concede that Bush did the job that no one else would do. That's what makes the last election so tragic.

Keep writing those tickets ya old fart :)

[namgrunt]

Oy Vey!