So, does anyone know how Sen. Kerry got his 3 purple hearts?

[Sparrowhawk]

And other military awards?


With Kerry winning the Iowa caucuses, I just thought I'll take a look at this character, not that I would ever vote for a democrat at this stage of the game, but I thought I'll take a look at who's running, why and what they are made of.

If he takes New Hampshire, I might even request a copy of his military records... LOL





http://www.pbs.org/newshour/images/bio/kerry.gif
JOHN FORBES KERRY

Military Service:
Entered Navy - 1966
Released as Lieutenant after serving in Vietnam from 1966-69
Received the Silver Star, Bronze Star, three Purple Hearts, Navy Unit Commendation, Presidential Citation.

[thedrifter]

A graduate of Yale University, John Kerry entered the Navy after graduation, becoming a Swift Boat officer, serving on a gunboat in the Mekong Delta in Vietnam. He received a Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, and three awards of the Purple Heart for his service in combat.

By the time Senator Kerry returned home from Vietnam, he felt compelled to question decisions he believed were being made to protect those in positions of authority in Washington at the expense of the soldiers carrying on the fighting in Vietnam. Kerry was a co-founder of the Vietnam Veterans of America and became a spokesperson for the Vietnam Veterans Against the War -- Morley Safer would describe him as "a veteran whose articulate call to reason rather than anarchy seemed to bridge the gap between the Abbie Hoffman's of the world and Mr. Agnew's so-called 'Silent Majority.'" In April 1971, testifying before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, he asked the question of his fellow citizens, "How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?" Sen. Claiborne Pell, (D-R.I.) thanked Kerry, then 27, for testifying before the committee, expressing his hope that Kerry "might one day be a colleague of ours in this body."
http://www.johnkerry.com/about/
Another site
http://www.votewithavengeance.com/kerry.html

Sempers,

Roger

[greensideout]

Is he another "Silver-Spoon" like Dean? Do any of them know what it's like to work and pay the bills? Sorry, can't relate to these folks.

[ivalis]

I'd like to see our commander in chief's military record.

[greensideout]

I'd like to see the servive records of his crew that were with him when he earned his awards. On a boat it sounds like a tight crew, top to bottom. All are in it together. He must have done something very outstanding!

[ivalis]

green, just what i've heard on the tube, there's a guy that's campaining (sp?) w/ him who says that Kerry saved his life.

sounds like he was the real deal. the Navy, like the suck, doesn't give those awards away like candy.

[MillRatUSMC]

Senator John F. Kerry <br />
Biography <br />
<br />
John Forbes Kerry was born on December 11, 1943 at a military hospital in Denver, Colo., while his father Richard Kerry, a pilot in the Army Air Corps, was being...

[MillRatUSMC]

For his actions that day, Kerry was awarded the Silver Star. Some controversy would arise with concern to the incident years later though when during a close election with William Weld in 1996, the Boston Globe's David Warsh questioned the circumstances of Kerry's heroism that day. Evidence emerged that the Viet Cong who had fired the rocket was alone and had already been wounded by the gunner on the ship.

After completing his tour returning home in 1969, Kerry made an about face in his position on Vietnam. Disillusioned, angered, and feeling an onerous sense of betrayal by Washington's handling of the conflict, he became a prominent anti-war protestor. Referring to the involvement in Vietnam as the "biggest nothing in history," Kerry became a co-founder of the Vietnam Veterans of America and the spokesperson for the Vietnam Veterans Against the War.

It was in this capacity Kerry achieved national renown and laid the nascent groundwork for a career in politics. In April 1971 while testifying before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Vietnam, he asked a question that echoed throughout the country: "How do you ask a man to be the last man to die in Vietnam? How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?" A day after delivering this simple question, he led a group of veterans that hurled their war medals onto the Capitol steps to protest the war. Though it later became clear that Kerry had only thrown his ribbons on the steps (to this day his medals are proudly displayed in his office), the events cemented Kerry's position as a leading critic of the Vietnam War. Morley Safer praised him as "a veteran whose call to reason . . . seemed to bridge Abbie Hoffman's of the world and [then-Vice President Spiro] Agnew's so called ‘silent-majority.'"

Kerry entered law school, graduating from Boston University in 1976. In the following years he served in Middlesex County and earned a reputation as a "top prosecutor" for leading the prosecution against a prominent New England organized crime boss and for modernizing the district attorney's office.
continued...

[MillRatUSMC]

In 1982, Kerry was elected lieutenant governor of Massachusetts (he served under then-Gov. Michael Dukakis) and in 1984 he ran for Paul Tsongas's vacant Senate seat. He was supported by the nuclear...

[kentmitchell]

Thanks, MillRatUSMC

The first section sure answered the question about the silver spoon. Another "leader" who doesn't have a clue.
Anyone who saw him ask for lo-cal dressing on a cheese steak, in Philly, probably guessed that, anyway.
Kerry looked like he was handling a dead rat instead of a sandwich.
If I was to vote Dem, it would probably be for the guy from South Carolina if he continues to campaign.
Dean looks risky and I sure don't want to vote for a doggie.

[TracGunny]

He's not a member of the Military Order of the Purple Heart (MOPH), so no help there...

http://www.purpleheart.org/

[Sparrowhawk]

Originally posted by TracGunny
He's not a member of the Military Order of the Purple Heart (MOPH), so no help there...

http://www.purpleheart.org/

http://www.purpleheart.org/medal.gif

years ago, they send me an application and I never filled it out. Maybe it's about time I did.

SF
Cook

[LONEEAGLE]

I ain't gonna knock, ain't sayin' nobody here has either, I'm using the word "KNOCK" as a mere expression......Not as a demeaning term towards other's opinion.....Here's how I see it. When I was in the land Of "OZ", I did my job. I got scratches, scrapes, had some close calls with some bullets, grenades, mortar's, and when my Doc wanted to put me in for a heart? I said, "Hell no." "I have to have more than this..." Every man/woman who served in the "Army" (I hope it's okay to say "ARMY" on this site.heeheheee), it seemed when I got back from the land of "OZ", had a "BRONZE STAR." But I seldom seen any Combat "V's" pinned to them. I also know a retired first Sgt, who was in the land of "OZ" who had a dog team. He had every medal except the MOH, and said in open discussion, "I GAVE MYSELF, MY MEN THESE MEDALS, SO, AND FOR, THEY DESERVED IT." I also know of a Man, who lives in Wyoming. I willnot devulge his name. But I do know what he did. His Recon Team, my Team flew out together, his team landing in one RZ, and my team to the great "ROCK OF PILE." I listened as one by one, they were being killed. "HELP, HELP, HELP,!!!" Then Silence. To far for me to go to in time to help them. This young man, wounded several times, the Pilot/co-pilot wounded, remembered, "We don't leave anyone behind", asked the crew chief of a CH-46, "DAMN IT MAN, HELP ME!!" HE WAS A CHICKEN ****. One man took a direct hit with a mortar, nothin' was found of him. The remaining survivor got every body, and the radio, onto the chopper which was threatening to leave, as it was comin' under attack, and brought them back to the rear....The pilot, co-pilot got silver stars, bronze stars, purple hearts, what did this man deserve? THE MOH. What did he get? "BRONZE STAR W/COMBAT 'V'." Maybe a purple heart.
So, I'm always leary of any "OFFICER" who receives any medal's for being a hero? IN MY BOOK, THERE ISN'T NARY A ONE, WHO SERVED, IN WHATEVER COMPACITY, MARINE,ARMY, NAVY, AIRFORCE, NAT'L GUARD, COAST GUARD, IN THE LAND OF OZ THAT WASN'T A 'HERO'. It took a lot of guts, just to keep from blowin' yer friggin' brains out.....that's a hero to me.....this L/Cpl was a sho nuff "HERO" and the crew chief told the story, and said he acted in a cowardly way.....was relieved...But why should "officer's get the gravy, grease, when the real warrior's like this L/cpl, get's the big green one without any grease? Are officer's such better people than you/I? This is what I hate about politics.....It sucks. And as far as his "HEROISM" of this man bein' taken out of the water, and some 30yrs later brought to meet carry, you think that wasn't staged?" HAH!!!
I have no politics. And it's because we are lied to. And people, even myself get caught up in this idealogy of one, two people, and are treated like some kind of god, and promises made, in speeches, are mostly you know what.....you can throw 'em in a contest now. It's the Congress that run's this country. The likes of Kennedy, dumber than a pot of rocks. These are the people we need to watch.....The President, he can only have hopes of doin' this 'n that because, of Congress. Look at the friggin' mess we are in in IRAG? It's time to get our people out of there, we got the rat in the trap.......Now let's go home. Why should we push our ways, "DEMOCRACY?" Bull******." "Only if you watch your p's and q's. Sound like some nut? Maybe...But I've been thru the ringer, and believe you me, I know what it's like to be watched, on a list, and not allowed freedoms. So we try and push our crap onto the Iragi people. The people will keep killing our troops until we get the hell out of there. And even if a constitution, some election process is made by Next yr., when we finally leave, the tribes are going to have an army, possible police force, but won't need it, because the ruling tribe of many, have, the power to put down any opposing party/tribe. "AFLAC!!!" "BRING 'EM HOME NOW." Remember my brother's and sister's, "YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID."

[TracGunny]

...now if that doesn't break the copy/paste mold, what does? Thanks for sharing BigEagle6; point taken and will be considered...

[USMC-FO]

"If I was to vote Dem, it would probably be for the guy from South Carolina if he continues to campaign......"

And who would this SC candidate be ???

[Sgtj]

If I was forced to vote "D" then I would vote for Sharpton, at least that would be entertainment.

[greybeard]

I don't care much for Kerry' politics, but like others here, I draw the line at 2nd guessing another's combat record. I wasn't there on the boat, I don't know for a fact what transpired, and until someone who was there comes fwd and disputes it, I'll say he earned any thing awarded to him.

[greensideout]

Originally posted by ivalis
green, just what i've heard on the tube, there's a guy that's campaining (sp?) w/ him who says that Kerry saved his life.

sounds like he was the real deal. the Navy, like the suck, doesn't give those awards away like candy.

I hear you. If it's on a Navy or Marine Corps uniform I know they earned it!

[P. M. SHEEHAN]

John LeBoutillier, noted political analyst and former Congressmanhas written quite a bit about John Kerry. Kerry's most famous and first appearance on the national homefront came when it was alledged that he threw his combat medals over the White House fence in protest of the Vietman War. Those were not his medals. Someone else had given them to him. He still has his. Right out of the batters box comes the news that Kerry's real name isn't Kerry at all, but Kohn. His grandfather came here from Austria and changed the name to Kerry in the early 1900's. LeBoutillier reported that Kerry never knew he was Jewish until last year. Is this belivable? Kerry also announced that he was in "perfect health" until it was revealed that he had prostate cancer and was later operated on. Kerry voted for the Congressional resolution authorizing President Bush to invade Iraq, and now is blasting Bush to the Democratic primary voters on the way the war is going. All these deceptions are nothing compared to his performance on the Senate Select Committee on POW'S and MIA'S back in the early 1990's. Along with John McCainhad a planned agenda. Both Kerry and McCain along with the first Bush administration which hailed the committee - each had an underhanded and "evil intention" to hijack this committee. Kerry wanted to have normalized relations with Hanoi so that real estate associates could do business in Vietnam and make money. What stood in the way of this was the lingering question/s of POW'S being held against their will in both Vietnam and Laos. Kerry took control of the committee and crushed it. It was reported that Kerry destroyed anyone who stood in his way who produced evidence that POW's were still alive. Advocacy groups were threatened with legal prosecution "for keeping the issue alive". Doesn't anybody remember this on 60 Minutes? Unfortunately, God has given humankind short memories. A prep school classmate of Kerry's, then as assistant attorney general, said "the leaders of these POW advocacy groups ought to be put in jail". That Kerry classmate? None other than FBI Director Robert Mueller. On Kerry's personal side, he is married to the heiress of the Heinz Co., Mrs. Heinz is the widow of the late Sen. Heinz. They live in a big mansion in Georgetown and own a 6 story brownstone in Boston's Beacon Hill. Mrs. Heinz (Kerry0 is reportedly worth close to $700 million. So folks, be careful of those initials JFK, the thick head of hair, and the Massachusetts connection. Especially you Irish Catholics (myself included). What you see is not what you get. He's no John Fitzgerald Kennedy......not even close. Finally, what you have read here is based on written reports by credible people. Even I found it hard to believe some of this stuff.

[greybeard]

The book he doesn’t want you to see: When Kerry ran for election to the U.S. House of Representative in 1972, “he found it necessary to suppress reproduction of the cover picture appearing on his own book, The New Soldier. His political opponent pointed out that it depicted several unkempt youths crudely handling an American flag to mock the famous photo of the U.S. Marines at Iwo Jima,” according to Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry.

“Suddenly, copies of the book became unavailable and even disappeared from libraries. But the Lowell (Mass.) Sun said of the type of person shown on its cover: ‘These people spit on the flag, they burn the flag, they carry the flag upside down, [and] they all but wipe their noses with it in their efforts to show their contempt for everything it still stands for,’” the New American reported.

Even today it is hard to find this infamous photo and book.

(It was pretty difficult to find, even on the blog sites.-found this one on Ebay, going for $177. Go figure)

[P. M. SHEEHAN]

God Bless, Greybeard. Please get the message out.

[dtrb63]

My G-friend works in a hotel where Kerry and his crew stayed on and off before the caucuses and she would come home and tell me how rude they all were. He claims to be for the working people but yet he and his staff fail to tip the working people who made their beds, cleaned their room, and cooked their food, seems to me that the working people to him are dust on a shoe. Just my point of view.

[greybeard]

That's true for most politicians unfortunately.

[radmaw]

I guess my comment or question is was George Bush in Vietnam or did he shirk his duty?

[Lock-n-Load]

:marine: My closest and best friend suffered from Alzheimers in 18 months it ravaged him severely...his family asked me to try and secure a bed in a local VA hospital ...so, I wrote to Kerry...

[Sparrowhawk]

The site below says a lot about Kerry, none of it good.


http://www.geocities.com/seavet72/AW/ws-kerry.htm

SF

Cook

[Lock-n-Load]

:marine: Indeed, thx for the cover fire...you Marine machine gunners...fire that constant/short burst to perfection...Gung-Ho, Marine:marine:

[TracGunny]

...in Vietnam or did he shirk his duty ...so anyone of age who did not serve in 'Nam shirked their duty? Wow, so everyone in the military who served between 1959 and 1975 and did not pull a tour in 'Nam are slackers... imagine that... Let me take that a step further; anyone, whether having served in the Armed Forces or not, who did not land in a hot LZ (Beirut, Panama, Persian Gulf, Somalia, etc.), shirked their duty. One step even further; Anyone who did go 'in country' but due to their non-combat MOS did not bust caps in anger or dodge incoming are slakers, even though their combat support, admin and logistics roles were vital to the gun-slingers being able to avoid shirking their duty.

I do not buy this, do you?

[radio relay]

TracGunny

IMHO...

If you have served your country in the military. No matter what your Branch, or any other circumstances, you have NOT shirked your duty.

If you have not served at all, and sat back and watched others go, while you got deferments for college, or some "medical" problem, or whatever, then you DID shirk your duty.

If you got deferments, didn't serve, sat back and smoked dope, and screwed a Marine's girlfriend while he was away, and badmouthed him when he came back, then you are LOWER than a snake in the grass.

If you served your country honorably in combat, came back and made an ass of yourself while wearing the uniform, disrespected your country and those still serving, as well as those who have come before, and these actions actually resulted in prolonging a war, and now, thirty years later, you just want everyone to forget what you did when you came back, and only focuse on your actions prior to that, then you are at best, a fool, at worst, a traitor. You certainly wouldn't deserve to be a President of The United States, and Commander In Chief.

SF :marine:

[TracGunny]

radio relay:

I think your 'humble' opinion (or is it opinoin...LTS) is dead center in the black. I hope my sarcasm in the prior post is not lost on anyone...

[FMFgrunt]

http://www.usvetdsp.com/jf_kerry.htm

[FMFgrunt]

Originally posted by ivalis
green, just what i've heard on the tube, there's a guy that's campaining (sp?) w/ him who says that Kerry saved his life.

sounds like he was the real deal. the Navy, like the suck, doesn't give those awards away like candy.

how the hell would you know IV?

[TracGunny]

Thanks FMFgrunt; your link is the first I've seen that gives ANY account of how the Hearts were "won".

In Kerry's own words, "walking wounded", and only cost him a few days of duty?

[radmaw]

Trac Gunny, I don't buy it either. My comment on shirking duty is based on what I've previously read on the internet. That being that our President failed to complete his tour in the ANG by non-attendance. Whether thats true or not I don't know, hence the question mark at the end of my statement.

[Sparrowhawk]

I agree 110%, those of us that survived Vietnam that went on to lead productive lives, without blaming our government, or seeking self serving praise are the majority, especially when it comes to Marines.

Who ever served in whatever position or service when they had a chance to has my respect. I could care less in what war, branch or time.

Some that came back like Kerry and used that experience for self-glorification disgraced those that died in battle, and for him I have no respect, and wouldn't trust him as our Commander-in-Chief.

What serviceman or women would want to follow a leader that for political reasons betrays those he served with?

While medals in the Corps and Navy were hard to come by, Naval officers at times seemed to obtain them easier, especially when you had influential parents like Kerry has.

Yes, I question how he earned them, because his actions afterwards do not reveal the sacred bond and honor found in those that earned them, the hard way, because they know often, that others besides them, or near them, that died deserved them more then they did.

So, they honor those awards, not because they sought them, but because of what they represent. And certainly they would not discard them as easily as Kerry did.


Originally posted by radmaw
I guess my comment or question is was George Bush in Vietnam or did he shirk his duty?

Bush served during a time of war, and while his unit was not called up, he like others served but not in combat duty.

Like his father before him, he was a pilot, if you ever read the story of his father's flying experience, it makes you proud.

But since that time, George Bush, our president certainly has proven himself an American fighter, as our Commander-In-Chief in time of war.

I respect him and I am sure so does the present military servicemen respect and honor him. I don't think they would respect, honor or be as willing to be lead by Kerry during this time in history.

[FMFgrunt]

Originally posted by TracGunny
Thanks FMFgrunt; your link is the first I've seen that gives ANY account of how the Hearts were "won".

In Kerry's own words, "walking wounded", and only cost him a few days of duty?

Roger that TracGunny. and that "hero" **** is a buncha hype. wtf kind of squid/sailor/swab jockey would leave a mate in the water, under fire and "go around the bend" INSTEAD of directing "cover fire" for his fellow squid?

another point. I don't have respect for those that embellish or milk their service awards. All the muthers (mud suckers) I was with did their JOBS and MOST never got any friggin "hype Medals"

Semper Fidelis, Marines The Title says it ALL:thumbup:

[greybeard]

Originally posted by TracGunny
...so anyone of age who did not serve in 'Nam shirked their duty?
I do not buy this, do you?

Don't buy it. We are but a small part of what it takes to keep the country free. Although a lot of medical people served in combat many others did not. That's ok-would we really want to go off and leave our families without medical professionals to take care of them? Or without police or fire protection? "Keeping both the home fires burning, and the industrial jugernaught running is an important part of this country. It insures it's veterans have a stable country to come back to. But--people who just run & hide can go to hel* IMO.

[FMFgrunt]

Originally posted by TracGunny
...so anyone of age who did not serve in 'Nam shirked their duty? Wow, so everyone in the military who served between 1959 and 1975 and did not pull a tour in 'Nam are slackers... imagine that... Let me take that a step further; anyone, whether having served in the Armed Forces or not, who did not land in a hot LZ (Beirut, Panama, Persian Gulf, Somalia, etc.), shirked their duty. One step even further; Anyone who did go 'in country' but due to their non-combat MOS did not bust caps in anger or dodge incoming are slakers, even though their combat support, admin and logistics roles were vital to the gun-slingers being able to avoid shirking their duty.

I do not buy this, do you?

not anyone/everyone that didn't serve BUT WE ALL DO KNOW THAT THERE WE MANY MANY THAT HID DURING VIETNAM...let's not lose perspective and become complacent by balling all the SLACKERS in one group..."If the shoe fits"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ese4mc]

Trac gunny--your answer on shirkers was something I had agonized over for years--late 60 thru 61 I was on the "rock"-I was
not called or chosen to go,yet it bothered me greatly--i started to apply for a Veterans license plate,& was told my time was "in country" & the decal would say Viet Nam--i was to ashamed to turn it in,& never got the plate--still cant seem to shake that feeling--but i feel a little better now

[TracGunny]

ese4mc:

Be proud! you did your duty and served, you are a Marine. We cannot control what fate throws our way. I was in DI school when the MEU building went down in Beirut, and agonized "I should be there". All through my 22-year active tour I felt a strange pain when I saw Marines in action and I was not there with them. Today, I watch OIF on TV and say, damnit, I should of stayed in for 30... What is, is... we are Marines...we take what lies before us and do the best we can possibly do...We stand tall, and we find ways to make a difference and assist our Country and fellow Marines in any small way we can. Thank God I choose the Corps, and thank you for being my Brother...

[FMFgrunt]

Originally posted by TracGunny
ese4mc:

Be proud! you did your duty and served, you are a Marine. We cannot control what fate throws or way. I was in DI school when the MEU building went down in Beirut, and agonized "I should be there". All through my 22-year active tour I felt a strange pain when I saw Marines in action and I was not there with them. Today, I watch OIF on TV and say, damnit, I should of stayed in for 30... What is, is... we are Marines...we take what lies before us and do the best we can possibly do...We stand tall, and we find ways to make a difference and assist our Country and fellow Marines in any small way we can. Thank God I choose the Corps, and thank you for being my Brother...

Semper Fidelis, Marine! yer right on with this one Brother;)

[greensideout]

Originally posted by FMFgrunt


how the hell would you know IV?

FMFgrunt, IV knows, be careful before you take the shot.

Semper Fi

[FMFgrunt]

Originally posted by greensideout


FMFgrunt, IV knows, be careful before you take the shot.

Semper Fi

and I know IV;)

[MillRatUSMC]

We gone from questioning how John Frobes Kerry came by his three Purple Hearts.
To questioning which man service was better.
We can learn some lessons by reading Henry V
Not just the part about;
"We Few, we happy few, he that will shed his blood with me this day, will be my brother".
The politics of the time. England still look with a cautious eye toward Scotland.
Henry was questioned "If the cat is away, the mice might steal the cheese".
In reality they were asking if the Army of England was away, the Scots might try invade England.
I'm sure that Henry V left some behind to guard England.
During the Vietnam War, we had more mice to worry about, the Soviet Union, China, North Korea and Cuba next door.
While much of our forces were committed to Vietnam.
Others had to stand post here and all the countries facing those countries mentioned above.
Now to question of which service was better.
It's like asking the body, which arm or leg is better.
The body needs all and NONE is better than the other.
The ratio was 10-1 that ten in support to one grunt in the field.
But that grunt was in need of that support.
We all wanted a job in the rear, but there was really no rear.
Those build-up areas got hit continously.
Better out in bush, where they had to find you.
IMHO
Medals and ribbons on the uniform only display what in one SRB.
They don't mean NUTHING to others, only to recipent of those medals.
So do we really care about John Frobes Kerry medals?
Or his actions after serving in Vietnam?
It only becomes important if he becomes President.
But with the baggage he has to lug around, I doubt that he will ever see the White House.
All of the above are my own personal opinions

Semper Fidelis
Ricardo
RVN 1965,1966, and 1967

[VMGRMech]

I don't feel like reading three pages of copy and paste, but I've got this to say: GWB is as much a child of privledge as Kerry. GWB spent the Vietnam war protecting the boarders of Texas from a Mexican invasion in the Texas Air Guard. Now, with all that being said there is now way I'll vote D unless the President royally screws something up between now and then.

PS: Is nice to see some discussion on this board

[charlie222]

From what I got on the tube last week, he got all 3 Purple Hearts within a 4 month period. Then, I have a friend a fellow Marine from"The Walking Dead", 1/9, who got his during his 12and 1/2 monthtour. As far a GWB, he was absent for most of his tour of duty. His service records states a blank period, just makes you wounder. Semper Fi, charlie222, RVN 1965 & 1967.

[rsta]

There's been a lot said about the President's service and him not being present for muster at the reserve meetings. I read an article and his CO stated that he, and others, weren't present because there wasn't anything for them to do. The reason for this was they didn't have the fuel for the planes to get in the air. You look back at this period of history and the military had a fuel shortage here in the states. MCAS Beaufort went from a 24 hour facility to a 16 hour facility, reason being was the lack of fuel. I'm sure other Marine facilities had the same cut-backs. Some of the Marine pilots were just barely getting the required hours in the air that they needed. If we were having trouble getting fuel, I've got to believe that reserve air units were also having the same problem. I'm not making excuses for the Pres., but when his CO says they had no gas and nothing for the pilots to do, I've got a tendancy to believe him.

Bob

[greybeard]

Everyone I think realizes the luck of the draw-The Needs of The Corps-plays a big part in where you go and what you do. The big difference in the Marines, is we all realize why we exist.-support of the grunt. There are, likely as not, some who think the wingers, the clerks, the supply/logistics etc aren't as deserving as the grunts, and I'm one of them-sorta. (I'm a winger) No way in heck do I rate the same recognition as the guys on The Rockpile or the hills around Khe Sahn. But, the truth is, we're a team. The best in the world-bar none. Each has his place on this team, but each also has the ability and willingness to assume a place on the spear tip of that team-in the mud-when needed. Sometimes it happens, most of the time it does not. I refuse to believe that the guy sitting back in the states making sure my pay was right isn't willing to drop his pencil in a skinny minute and take up his rifle beside the 03's if need be-but I also realize someone has to do that pay record thing too. He/she might not like it, but THAT is their job, it's what their orders state. The important thing is, that every swingin di** do his/her job to the best of his/her ability-to support that grunt half a world away. The day we let them down is the day we quit being The Marine Corps.

[radio relay]

As far as George Dubya, and Kerry match up, vis a vis, military record, neither is perfect.

Kerry was a squid PBR captain who most likely did see a considerable amount of combat, and earned his medals. I never got any farther south than Da Nang. So, I've had zero personal experience with the delta. However, I have spoken with both Navy and Army people who were down there. From their accounts, it wasn't easy duty, and very dangerous.

However, his actions after he got home, are what sour my opinion of Kerry. IMHO he spit on his country, his fellow Vietnam Veterans, and all those who also have earned medals for valor on the battlefield.

I also don't like Kerry's hair brained, democratic politics. I would not vote for him.

George Dubya, was a drunk and a rich playboy with a powerfull Daddy, who got his boy a safe, sexy little job in the Reserves, zipping around Texas in an F-4. Thus, the boy could fulfill his military obligation, without really ever being in a combat zone. Spin it any way you like, but thems the facts on Dubya's military career.

Since GWB has been President, he has run the war on terror perfectly. He has been exactly the right person to have as CIC. Thank God we had him when we needed him. He has had the guts to stand up to the world of spineless opinion, and gone after those who want to destroy the U.S. He's done a great job in that regard.

However, he lost my vote a couple weeks ago.

I have been able to tolerate his new, draconian homeland security laws. I have groweled when he gutted VA funding, but accepted it. I have watched him ramrod that idiotic new medicare bill, which did nothing for seniors, but gave the stinking HMO's billions. I have watched him take care of the rich, like a good republican, and care less about anyone else, and I also decided to grin and bear that (even though, I've not had a job for three years... recovery my a$$!!!)

BUT...

It turned my stomach watching Bubya go down to Mexico, and kiss that S.O.B. Vicente Fox's butt (the same a-hole that turned his back on us in Iraq!), while smiling and pretending that all the illegal aliens, who have come up here to steal our health care, go on welfare, break all our laws, and disrespect native born Americans, are just good folks who need a break. That was the last straw! George W. Bush, can go straight to hell! I wouldn't vote for him under any circumstances!!!

So, guess I'll just sit this next election out.

SF :marine:

[USMC-FO]

RR:

All perfectly good reasons to be PO'd. But I would suggest that sitting out in an understandable funk accomplishes nothing. There is much I like about Bush--I voted for the guy much to my families utter dismay and shock--But there is much like yourself I do not like. I am for MA and find things about Kerry I like much I dislike. There are many posts I see here in the thread that mirror much of the US today, which is an almost rabid dislike for one fellow--Kerry in this case--or the other(Bush). The mirror is of course that it demonstrates the profound split we see in our society today. Most unfortuante. I am rambling.I guess I would suggest that rather than commit to sit out and do nothing it might be better sit back, look, consider, weigh options and then act for one or the other. It is a LONG time till the election and we're a long way from even knowing who the Dem's will put up. Hell, maybe Sharpton will pull a miracle out of his ass.... :-)

Semper Fi ! (no more lectures I promise)

[greybeard]

lectures are stimulating-bring em on....

[TracGunny]

I dislike the term "lesser of two evils,” and try to give all candidates a fair shake, regardless of their political affiliation. I try not to be a "one-issue voter"; rather take a look at all the issues and where each candidate stands. Instead of the lesser evil, I vote the candidate that closest matches my beliefs on all topics. Since I turned 18 and began voting, I have never been completely satisfied with my choice. Still looking for the perfect candidate... (anyone gat a lantern I can borrow?)

I will vote at every opportunity I am given this year.

[radio relay]

Yes you're right, FO.

That's what I probably will do, because I value my right to vote, and hate not having a say. It's going to be such a hard choice. No matter who ends up running. Most likely, I will grit my teeth and vote GWB, but if the Dems came up with anyone who could covince me that he will stay the course on the war on terror, I might just vote that way too.

Sharpton, is an interesting candidate. He's a tad too radical for my blood, and that Brawley episode will forever haunt him. I'm sure he won't be there at the end. I'm hoping that Condie Rice runs in 2008. She'd get my vote in a heart beat. I think she could kick Hillary's pinko behind from the east coast to the west coast, and back, too. Same same for Powel. Although, I don't think he'd be as easy to get elected as Rice. Wouldn't that just tork some left wing democrats?!? The first black President, and first female President, being a republican.

SF :marine:

[USMC-FO]

Can't argue with you much about Condie, I don't know enough about her yet. Certain the Republicans don't have the stones on them to do anything that radical. She would, however, get a vote from me in a heartbeat over Miss Hillary--who simply drives me into an uncontrolable barffing episode !

S/F RR !

[artgle]

Hi Guys, I'm new here, having been primarily over on MSN Marines and Marines Direct.

But I'd like to offer my view on Kerry and his Democrats.

I lived in MA. all my life, and wanted "Out" of that state for years.
I got the oppertunity when offered a job in Washington, DC in 1999. I jumped on the chance.

But it was in my last year or two in MA. that the incident I'd like to comment on happened.
The People of MA. decided that Campaign Finance was an issue that needed "Fixing", so they held a petition drive in which they collected many times the required amount of signatures from Registered Voters. All signatures were verified as part of the legislature's attempt to discredit the drive.
This petition FORCED the issue onto the ballot.
The following election, the issue was voted into effect by a noticably LARGE MAJORITY of the voters.

The Democratice Legislature, faced with Mandatory Campaign Finance Regulation, somehow managed to "Make the Funding Go Away"... Thereby Crippling the newly enacted law.

Basically, my point is that Democrats at any level don't give a *&^%$ What their constituents want or vote, They're as bad as any of 'em.

Oh, I'm a born and raised Massachusetts Kennedy Democrat converted to Staunch Ronald Reagan Conservative Republican.
Had to add that so you'd understand my stance in all this.

Semper
Art

[artgle]

Radio Relay, I can understand your angst at the Mexico thing.
But!!!
GWB has a "Secret Weapon" that you're missing.

AHNOLD!!!

Seriously! Keep an eye on California, Swarzenager is going to put a cap in the a__ of the Illegal Alien thing right quick.
The people tried once with that law on health care that was declared unconstitutional. The lawyers are and have been working on that one ever since.

Sure, he went and smiled and patted backs. But there's more to it than that. With the demographics involved, the entire south west is a powder keg. And it's all over the country.
Gotta keep things on an even keel 'till the Terminator gets ready for his move.

IMHO

Semper
Art