Tips for Transitioning

[cpl1142]

Marines, I have found it difficult and frustrating totranslate my Marine Corps leadership skills into civilian management skills. Ilaugh inside when I see how poorly ran a business is and how low morale is amongstemployees due to poor leadership. To see civilian managers who have neverexperienced the level of scrutiny a Marine leader experience not understandthat he has the worlds best leader at his disposal and not use him is just adisgrace. As an NCO you have to know your Marines inside and out. Their actionsand morale are directly proportionate to your level of commitment to mentoringthem. So many business practices that are handed to us through our leadershiptraits and characteristics. Many civilian managers do not realize how impactfultheir lack of professionalism can harm a business’s morale. They do notunderstand justice and judgment in dealing with employees. They do notunderstand to maximize efficiency in an employee you must understand whatmotivates them to do their job to the best of their ability. With all thatbeing said us Marines are spoon fed this stuff from Training Day – 1. We livebreathe and eat leadership. We understand that the General down to the Privateis in some shape or form a direct or indirect leader. Whether you are leadingpeers or subordinates or in some cases leading your superiors by inspiring themwith your commitment and motivation. With all these skills, why are civilian employersnot clawing at veteran experience? Or am I not communicating it well enough? Idunno…….

[cpl1142]

sorry for typos, computer is being a real pain right now.

[josephd]

I couldn't agree with you more but I have to say that it completely depends on the industry. What good is a good leader(veteran) if he/she does not know the nuances and details of working in a particular environment?

Don't take this the wrong way, as it is not directed at you or anyone Marines on here but in certain industries/professions veterans can become a liability. As a general observation most veterans(Marines especially) are not the most educated and wouldn't be suited for working in service industries/white collar work which is what a majority of the jobs in the U.S. are.

One problem I see is many veterans think that their experience leading their peers is enough to get themselves into middle-upper management jobs when in reality it takes more....I could rant forever on this....

My point is veterans need to come out of their service, use their GI Bill to get an education(basic business core especially), lose their attitude/swagger/stubbornness/choose your adjective, and brand themselves as something that employers can actually utilize

[cpl1142]

I certainly agree as well. I just got heated when I go to "Stars and Stripes" or HEROJobs or any other veteran related job search assistance. I's all entry levelJobs. 4 or more years serving and the best we get is tostart at the bottom. Now all our high school buddies are advanced. Very fewcompanies offer management trainee slates to veterans but yet Country ClubDaddy’s son who got his college paid for is great management material afterfour years of partying and class. At least our Officers go thru OCS. With somany veterans getting out I just don’t see this country’s commitment to us.Sure knowing how to drill a platoon or call in arty isn’t a vital skill incivilian industry. All some of us need is a shot. Train us, screen us, if wemake the cut put us to use. If we come up short, guide us toward success.Constantly being told you don’t have the “right” experience is just not fair.

[Tennessee Top]

As hard as it may be for us to understand, our leadership style (regardless of how effective we perceive it to be) does not always work in civilian industry.

I went from a 22.6 year career as a Marine, to a fulltime college student, to patient care at a university medical center (teaching hospital) in the public healthcare industry. There were no troops to lead anymore as I started out as a private all over again. Only fair since I had no work experience or technical expertise except what I learned in school during clinical work (mostly on cadavers, simulators, or dummies). My situation could be compared to a lateral move. I was competing for promotion against others with the same credentials and education level as me but with multiple years of experience. I will say, I struggled with the concept of "calling in sick" and leaving your team understaffed for that shift. Think I went five years with perfect work attendance before getting sick enough I had no choice but to call in one day. There are a number of veterans at my hospital (including a few Marines) and, as far as I can tell, we maintain an excellent reputation as a group. I was even the "employee of the month" a couple times which is not bad for a retired Marine surrounded by young college graduates. As I gained experience, my situation reminded me a lot of the Staff NCO/junior officer relationship in the Corps. Only this time, the junior officers were interns or residents. They graduated from med school (OCS) and were doctors, but relied on our experience and technical expertise to help them with much of their decision-making (at least, the successful ones did).

My job was all about patient care, making the right decisions in a timely manner (sometimes meant the difference between life or death), advocating for the patient, and being tactful with doctors and family members. Like josephd said, I had to lose my SNCO attitude/swagger/stubborness, etc. It certainly is not easy dealing with slimey civilians on a daily basis and I came close to knocking a cocky resident out one evening (sometimes I still regret not doing it just for general purposes). But the fact is, we are on their home turf now and must play by their rules. Regardless of how unfair it may seem to us.

[josephd]

HR managers are on the top of my hit list right now after doing numerous interviews and job shadows over the last year or so. Most are 20 or 30 something with nothing other than a BA/BS and/or MA in HR, Bus. Admin, or Psychology...no real world experience leading, managing, etc...

I am lucky as a reservist I have had to keep up on my own with resume skills and marketing myself. AD guys returning to the civilian world have a hard time with this, I make a conscious effort to help out quite a few vets I go to school with and checking in to my reserve unit now with their resume writing and how to word it properly to stand out among other candidates/applicants

[Tennessee Top]

Life is never fair. Even for Marines.

Funny thing is. Wannabes come on here all the time complaining about how they can't get a fair shake from the USMC. Karma is a real ***** sometimes.

[cpl1142]

I hear that Top! Ijust can’t help but think that a lot of it is a miscommunication in skillstranslation. I think too many Vets are getting out and thinking, take my casefor example, I was an 1142, electrical equipment repair specialists, aka agenerator mechanic/electrician, but what was I really??? Hmm, I lead, mentored,and supervised Marines as an NCO. I trained Marines to be technicallyproficient. So no I didn’t get out as a generator mechanic. I got out as a ShopForeman perhaps or Field Supervisor. But what happens when a young Devil getsout. They look online and see oh there is an opening for a generator mechanic, that’sme. They aren’t being trained that Utility NCO or Generator Chief is theequivalent to these more advanced positions and worse our civilian’s employersaren’t seeing it either. I’ve sat in so many interviews explaining how I wasMarine of the Month “X” amount of times. Or explaining my meritoriouspromotion. Or explaining earning a NAM in Iraq. How many have said let me goresearch this and see exactly what this is? Probably zero. And in my case theindustry is almost exactly the same as what I did for the Corps. No matter howwell I explain it, they won’t get it. On the flip side, yes I am currently pursuingmy bachelors in Business Management. I will take all the knowledge I can get, that’sjust me. I just can’t feel the injustice when I know a hiring manager couldpick up the phone or google a few facts about my past experiences and realizethey are sitting on a nugget of gold. Don’t mean to be too cocky. The ones thatdo grasp military people hit me with the same b.s., “well military people aretoo rigid and often too aggressive in leadership styles”. Can I yell loudenough to wake the dead? Do my feet hit the floor in the morning and the devilthinks to himself “**** he’s awake”? Oo-freakin-rah to that. But at the sametime, I prided myself on two things and I tell managers this: After all theboot camp games and what not I never once received a “butt” chewing and betteryet as a NCO at 20 years old I never once gave a “butt” chewing. I formallycounseled and mentored Marines very successfully. Management experience yousay, have you ever taken a man who was stuck in a sand box with mortars androckets coming down nightly and explain to him that no he cannot go home to tendto his adulterous wife and that his mission is critical to the success of theunit. Have that same man thank you months later for being there for him as asuperior and a friend.
If nothing thank you for letting me vent. LOL. One day Iwill be that manager and hopefully the right Devil Dog applies to a job ofmine. Daddy’s little prince from college can take a hike!

[cpl1142]

That's good on you Sgt. TAPS or whatever they call it these days is a joke. They need to train Marines on transitioning constantly. Better yet, SNCO's and Officers need to be trained on the demands out here so they can better guide young pups. Come to think of it, a real good argument could be made on the benefit of taking Prior Service back in for this reason. LOL

[Tennessee Top]

This won't make you feel any better but there are success stories out there for veterans.

Before graduating from school, I had 6 job offers from hospitals in the Tampa/St Pete area (I retired from the USCENTCOM headquarters at MacDill AFB in Tampa). Two hospitals in this area were advertising in professional journals so I flew up here on a long weekend before graduation for interviews. I was offered entry-level positions at both on the spot. The job I accepted here at the University of Tennessee Medical Center in Knoxville was connected to my being a Marine. The USMC reserve center is right across the highway and I was on the Inspector-Instructor Staff there as a SSgt. The daughter of the department manager I interviewed with just happened to be married to my old Inspector-Instructor (small world). Anyway, there are cases where being a Marine has paid off.

BTW, my niece is an 1141 LCpl with the 8th Engineer Support Battalion, 2ndMarDiv, Camp LeJeune. She wants to get out in three years, get a degree in sports medicine/science, and become a strength and conditioning coach. Figure she'll change her mind at least 100 times in the next three years.

[Tennessee Top]

I really lucked out with TAPS. Did mine on an Air Force Base - if you can imagine! Everything was top notch.

[cpl1142]

I know my opinion is completely biased to my certainsituation. 9/10ths of my problem started in my recruiter’s office when he putme in for this MOS. I told him to not put a wrench in my hand. But given wheremy home town is and the demand for my skill set, he was looking out for me. Andat the end of day I have a skill set that I can feed my family with. I'mcurrently being looked at for a role in management. I’m just getting theventing out of the way in the event they decide to go with someone else. Hopefor the best, plan for the worst.