Reclama for a Purple Heart

[ReaperGuns]

I am new to the site but look forward to chiming in if I can offer any information in the future.

Just wanted to get some advice if anyone out there has ran into anything similar. I am a former Machine Gunner (0331) and served in Fallujah, Iraq. About halfway through my tour I was on a convoy escorting the company CO to the North side of the city when we were struck by 2 IED's. I don't remember much about it, it knocked me out stone cold. I was the turret gunner on the 2nd vic. I came to and had a light in my eyes, the Marines in the cab had pulled me out of the turret and were checking me for wounds. Needless to say, I suffered a TBI and don't remember much about the incident. We returned to the FOB and I was kept behind the wire for 1 week for a concussion and loss of consciousness. In 2011 the Marine Corps decided that having your brain bashed against your skull and made into yogurt soup by an enemy action/ordinance was worthy of a PH. After much convincing by family and former Marines, I decided this last summer (2014) to see about submitting for it. This is where it gets interesting/frustrating/not surprising. I am still in contact with the Battalion Surgeon who evaluated me and held me behind the wire post-blast. He said he would be happy to submit for it. About a week later, he said that there was no PCR (personnel casualty report) filed for me for that incident even though he knew for a fact that it happened. It turns out that since TBI's were a 'shake it off' event back then and we were in the suck of sucks (Fallujah) with a hefty mission on our hands, it was not uncommon for PCR's to not be filed for TBI's. So since I don't have a PCR, I decided to get signed and notarized statements confirming that this did happen to me from the two Marines who recovered me from the turret while I was out, my then Company Commander (now a Lt. Col), the Bn Surgeon who evaluated me and held me behind the wire, and my then Bn Commander (now a 1 star). Even though I will have 6 letters (from a Lcpl all the way to a 1 star) confirming that I rate the award, there is doubt that I will get it simply because that single PCR was not filed.

Does anyone know of anyone in a similar situation, or who has gone through a similar situation? If so, do you have any advice or information? Thanks in advance.

S/F

Reaper

[FoxtrotOscar]

I see whee your coming from on this RG.. Because of the incidental politics and technical bureaucratic bs it may take some time..

There are a few on here that may be able to assist you in this avenue...

Patience and I'm sure they will come along.. Good Luck, welcome back..

SF FO...

Now, get back and fix your profile... Any questions on that, let me know...

[ReaperGuns]

Thanks FO. Hopefully someone out there can shine some light. I know it's not a sucking chest wound, but I also know I haven't been the same since. I wouldn't be surprised if half of my excuse for a brain is mush.

Profile fixed.

[chulaivet1966]

Well...with great hesitation I'll chime in.

I haven't done any googling and I would expect the PH criteria has been modified since my era so this is just a shot from the hip.
I have no intention of diminishing anyone's take on this subject.
I'm just going to be honest.

I was always under the impression that the PH was awarded specifically for actual blood being shed....hence....Purple.

TBI = traumatic brain injury...traumatic being the operative word.
If a traumatic brain injury can be truly verified I would suspect that a judgement call by superiors may be considered.

Personally speaking only, if I would have only experienced some sort of concussion from and mortar round, grenade or fell off my bunker in a fire fight it would never occur to me that I warranted a PH....I did not shed blood....end of story.
If I can function well in society, behave as expected, live responsibly and can hold down a job like everyone else then I wouldn't define my injury as traumatic from my perspective.

I have my demons too but I've never asked for anything from the VA. (but I certainly am signed up/registered with the local VA hospital)
I think those that had it far worse than myself should get that attention and resources.

We all have war wounds but not all are PH warranted...just personal wounds we must reconcile within ourselves.
After all...we joined the USMC, not the Eagle Scouts.

What I do know is that I've served with The Best during war, somehow survived and that is reward enough for me.

Or, maybe I'm wrong about it all.

OP...do what you think is right for you and good luck.

Carry on....

[chulaivet1966]

Shvt....

I mean to add that I read that other older thread along with your response on this subject which is what prompted me to chime in.

Again...best of luck on your pursuit.

Carry on....

[ReaperGuns]

I appreciate your input. Believe me, I struggle with this as well. However, after all of the research done and conversations with MD's, I've been told that being knocked unconscious from a blast and it causing memory loss is a pretty serious injury. I'm a Neuroscientist myself, not an MD, and from what I know about the research colleagues do on TBI, we are looking at a very costly future for thus generation of Vets. So, while it isn't an outward wound, the bleeding, inflammation, and damage done to the brain from an event like that is medically a very significant wound. I myself have side effects to this day that can be attributed to it. I won't even go into the neurological diseases that cascade from those events. That being said, I don't disagree with you, without 'seeing' the wound, it's difficult to contemplate how it could possibly be that bad. It's difficult from this perspective as IED'S and TBI'S are the hallmark of these wars. From a medical standpoint, loss of consciousness and amnesia from a blast means your brain was turned into yogurt from inflammation at one point and likely bled. In my case, I was within ****ing distance of 3 155 shells, some plastic explosives, and other smaller ordinance in the same damn hole.

All in all, I respect the hell out of your opinion. I waited years after it was even possibe to be awarded one because I didn't think much of it. Knowing what I know now and talking to other Marines and family members, I decided to pursue.

[FoxtrotOscar]

Purple Hearts are known as a Medal received for receiving wounds from the enemy, and usually it was considered blood shed... Weapons have changed and wounds have changed..

I know what injuries can be done with IED's/Explosive's, I have first hand involvement with some of it, with knowledge of the over pressure created by such blast's and the damage to human organs. I worked at Sandia Labs in ALb, NM and also at EMERTC... Both while on active duty and also as a civilian whizzer...

I'm just placing this out here so some will understand where my information comes from... I'm placing an article below that came out around June or so back in 2011...

The Army on Friday issued a directive clarifying standards for awarding the Purple Heart medal to soldiers with mild traumatic brain injury.

The instruction follows a recent change by the Marine Corps that removed the requirement that Marines be knocked unconscious to qualify for a Purple Heart for TBI, a potentially debilitating condition often caused by blasts.

The Army did not explicitly require loss of consciousness to qualify, but Pentagon officials said there has been uncertainty over the medal standard throughout the services.

To qualify, the announcement said, soldiers must have required treatment from a medical officer – even if one was not available – for concussion, loss of consciousness, memory loss or other symptoms of mild TBI. Types of treatment that would meet the standard for the award include limitation of duty and administration of pain medication.

For soldiers who want to be reconsidered for the medal, instructions for applying retroactively for the Purple Heart medal were issued in Milper Message 11-125 and were expected to be posted soon on the Army Human Resources website at: http://www.hrc.army.mil.

FO...

[Mongoose]

This isn't meant to down play anything.....In Viet Nam, you had to meet some form of criteria to receive a PH. It was usually up to Regimental or Battalion CO's as to what that was. In my Battalion, you had to be in the care of Battalion aid or a Military hospital for at least 11 days. Some units it was 8 days. If you could be patched up by a field Corpsman or sent back to combat duty in a short period of time, it was nada. We were always getting minor wounds from mortor rounds or bullet fragments, and Many stepped into booby traps and received wounds, but was treated by a field Corpsman and got light duty for a day or two. Also, in Nam there was many that suffered concussions and received no PH.

[chulaivet1966]

We were always getting minor wounds from mortar rounds or bullet fragments, and Many stepped into booby traps and received wounds, but was treated by a field Corpsman and got light duty for a day or two. Also, in Nam there was many that suffered concussions and received no PH.

Yep....

OP....I didn't check yesterday prior to posting but your profile is pretty thin which may not help your quest for info.

Carry on...

[USMC 2571]

Wayne, that particular profile is set for "friends only", so is not visible at all except to friends. I don't know how we set that setting, but that's the reason for it.

[chulaivet1966]

Wayne, that particular profile is set for "friends only", so is not visible at all except to friends. I don't know how we set that setting, but that's the reason for it.

Top of the mornin' Dave.

Got it....I didn't know that and have no clue about that setting..
OP...my oversight.
(Speaking of profiles I miss the visitor stat option that used to be available).

Hope all is well with you on the right coast.

Back to it....

[USMC 2571]

All is well here, Wayne, only 20 inches of snow fell. Better than the 30 elsewhere in the region.

[FoxtrotOscar]

All is well here, Wayne, only 20 inches of snow fell. Better than the 30 elsewhere in the region.

Snow, Oh my.... Here's some help for ya Dave...

28526 SNOWSHOES & TISSUE 28527

Now back to the topic... ;)

[chulaivet1966]

Snow, Oh my.... Here's some help for ya Dave...


Ha...Brother FTO....you're all heart. :)

Dave, I couldn't stand living in that type of weather.
But...that's probably shorts and tank top weather for you tough NE'ers.

Oh...ok...back to topic.

[FoxtrotOscar]

As I was doing what I do on some days, I was thinking about this subject of Purple Hearts...

Without getting into a debate on this thread, I propose a new thread be started about this subject... The reason being, so as not to interfere with the original OP thread...

I realize it will stir some very poignant feelings both pro and con, but I think it's worth it's thread on the subject...

Anyone, care to start this thread on the subject...???

[chulaivet1966]

Without getting into a debate on this thread, I propose a new thread be started about this subject... The reason being, so as not to interfere with the original OP thread...Anyone, care to start this thread on the subject...???


Sounds like good idea for a subject of this nature.
Yes...there's 'poignant' feelings on both sides so I chose my words carefully.
I could have gone into more detail about my overall feelings but choose not to.

I'll pass on being the volunteer to start another thread on this topic but if you think it's relevant you can copy my response to the new one.

Thanks for the offer...carry on.

[Baker1971]

Reaper said this.

I'm a Neuroscientist myself, not an MD, and from what I know about the research colleagues do on TBI, we are looking at a very costly future for thus generation of Vets.

Now I question the question from the source. Hmmm....

Fishing ???

[ReaperGuns]

Reaper said this.

I'm a Neuroscientist myself, not an MD, and from what I know about the research colleagues do on TBI, we are looking at a very costly future for thus generation of Vets.

Now I question the question from the source. Hmmm....

Fishing ???


I'm new to this thing, so forgive my ignorance. What exactly is 'fishing'? If I took a stab at it I'd think you were implying that I know the answer to my own question? This thread has taken quite a turn from the original questions which was geared toward those that have been in a similar situation as mine. I merely wanted to know if anyone had had their unit not file a PCR for injuries and it screw them over later? And if so, how they rectified it? Me stating my knowledge of the effects of TBI doesn't necessarily answer that question.

Forgive me if I'm wrong.

[Old Marine]

Last time I went fishing you put your line in the water and maybe you caught something, if not you were skunked.

[chulaivet1966]

Even though I will have 6 letters (from a Lcpl all the way to a 1 star) confirming that I rate the award, there is doubt that I will get it simply because that single PCR was not filed. I waited years after it was even possible to be awarded one because I didn't think much of it. I myself have side effects to this day that can be attributed to it.

I'll pose something to consider based on your above comments:

Have you gone to, or have you been going through the VA system since the very beginning to verify your claims and get the help you need?

If the PH authorization is unlikely after the 'years' that have elapsed and you are already getting the assistance you need from the VA system at what point does it become imprudent to continue climbing the beaurocratic mountain regarding a PH award?

No diminishing of your quest....just thought I'd throw that out.

Do carry on....time for some Friday night pizza.