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thedrifter
12-29-03, 06:39 AM
Osprey test flights proceed smoothly
December 28,2003
ERIC STEINKOPFF
DAILY NEWS STAFF

Three years after two MV-22 Osprey crashes took the lives of 23 Marines, local commanders say the program is moving ahead smoothly.

Developmental test pilots recently surpassed the 1,000-flight-hour mark since the Osprey's return to the air and sea trials on amphibious assault ship decks.

Up next will be formation flying and air-to-air refueling before evaluators formally look at their progress again.

"Probably in the April-to-May time frame we will make a "quick-look" operational assessment," said Col. Glenn M. Walters, Marine Tilt Rotor Test and Evaluation Squadron 22 commander.

Marine Tilt Rotor Test and Evaluation Squadron 22, or VMX-22, was created Aug. 28, and received its first aircraft in October and its second in November.

"We'll receive two more in January and, beginning in March, are scheduled to receive two per month for the remainder of the year," Walters said.

Although there are many developmental tests that must be completed, Walters said operational evaluation could begin by the end of 2004.

Twenty pilots and 20 crew members in training now will rotate through eight Ospreys during the operational evaluation to see how the aircrafts perform in the deserts around Yuma, Ariz., and in the cold altitude of Bridgeport, Calif., culminating with an exercise at sea aboard amphibious assault ships.

"The operational evaluation will probably take about five to six months, then we make a final report before an approval for full-rate production," Walters said.

After the accidents in 2000, a federal blue ribbon panel report recommended safety and software changes and added a synch rate warning to tell pilots and crew members if the aircraft is descending too fast.

Designers hope this will tell pilots when they are in turbulence called "vortex ring state," which causes power settling, something blamed as a contributing factor in an April 8, 2000, crash at Marana Northwest Regional Airport about 15 miles northwest of Tucson, Ariz.

Walters also likes the new, two-panel pilot position, making days of constantly scanning every 3-inch gauge in the cockpit a thing of the past.

Between the two pilot positions is another screen used to handle their communications.

"There used to be 3-inch gauges stuck all over the cockpit," Walters said. "(Now) it just looks clean and it means I can do my job faster, better and safer."

Although there is double and often triple redundancy built into the Osprey systems, in the off chance that everything goes blank, there is an old-style horizon, altimeter and speedometer so the pilot can land in case of an emergency.

But some of the improvements are intangible, such as morale of those working on the program and their families.

"They're very excited," Walters said. "Normally you have to go look for someone from avionics to swap something out. When I took my first flight, I probably had 60 maintenance personnel watching me come in."

During a recent Christmas celebration at the New River Air Station, an MV-22 even brought Santa Claus to visit cheering children.

"I never understood how good a feeling it was for the family to see it," Walters said.


Contact Eric Steinkopff at esteinkopff@jdnews.com or 353-1171, Ext. 236.

http://www.jacksonvilledailynews.com/SiteProcessor.cfm?Template=/GlobalTemplates/Details.cfm&StoryID=18978&Section=News


Sempers,

Roger
:marine:

Doc Crow
12-29-03, 03:57 PM
I have taken a wait and see attitude on this Bird. I like it so far but seems to be more bugs then usual but it may be it being high profile unlike the aircraft of old we never heard much about birds falling unless you lived wherer they tested

RichLundeen
12-29-03, 05:09 PM
The Corps, and the whole military for that matter, needs some serious replacements for all lift capacity helos. We recieved the last '53 to be produced. The last Heavy lift AC. The few 46s, and all the 47s, are getting a little long in the tooth. The longevity of all these airframes will be prolonged, but as with all AC, this is limited.

In my mind, the Osprey is going to be a heck of an AC. The heavy lift version is going to be incredible, and needed, by the time it reaches production. Look at our medium lift issues now.

On the drawing board is a QTR - Quad Tiltrotor or V-44 that may be used to replace the CH-53E and perhaps even the KC-130.

The dynamic and dimension that these AC will provide for will change battlefield tactics and logistics, BIG TIME! Twice as fast, somewhere around twice the range, etc. And the V-44, well that's gonna be just amazing.

Semper Fi

Rich

greybeard
12-29-03, 09:09 PM
'Proceeding smoothly' Roger?
Not hardly. That's the party line release. Let's see. Chip lights illuminated by close proximty to a naval vessel. Isn't that the intended working inviroment for this ac? Ground resonance is so bad, the piots have to stand by at all times to increase power just to prevent see sawing. How many tests have been conducted at the 52,000-58,000 lb gross weight? ZERO!!! Vortex Ring State solved? Sure, as long as the pilot isn't coming in too fast & moves from horizontal to vertical eng nacelle position quickly enough. Hope he isn't too busy trying to get into a hot LZ and forgets. Oh, wait till they find out that the proposed cruising speed is so fuel ineffecient that it will really transport troops no faster than a Phrog. Lift capabilty has already been downgraded at least twice due to fuel tank repositioning, and it will be again, once they decide what defensive armament system they will use.

In my mind, the Osprey is going to be a heck of an AC. The heavy lift version is going to be incredible, and needed, by the time it reaches production. Look at our medium lift issues now.

Yeah, but will it happen in OUR lifetime? With per unit costs approaching $100 milion dollars and a dismal showing of the 2 Ospreys aboard Bataan recently, they are still having their problems-14 yrs of problems.
On Bataan, the tests had been planned since LAST January. 2 Ospreys on deck at the same time.

Lets see

Planned 2 a/c for 11days = 22 days testing
a/c 22 was 6 days late!!!! had 6-7 days of actual testing????
a/c 10 was 9 days late!!! Did NO testing

End result Only 6-7 days used!!!!

So
We make elaborate plans to make up for screwup in January
Both a/c were delayed because of problems???
One a/c arrived and departed (NOT able to do anything!!)
One a/c actually did something during 6 days.

Intentions of checking out two aircraft working at same time
was a major setback!!!
Just imagine where we would be today if we hadn't spend another few $$Billions to accelerate production.

I've yet to hear of a single test that this multi billion dollar, over budget, over time boondoggle hasn't had to delay, cancel or outright fail. It's pork at it's worst.

RichLundeen
12-29-03, 09:18 PM
I would have to agree with you on all your points.

I think the program should be halted, evaled, and restructured for efficiency.

The fact remains, we have a lot invested in it already, past the point of no return, IMHO. And the fact also remains, we need a replacement. And the performance of this type of airframe in the 'V' program is irrefutable in comparison to conventional rotary configurations.

Semper Fi

Rich

greybeard
12-29-03, 09:41 PM
Rich, I want you to read what Congressman Kurt Weldon said in a speech to the Subcomitte on Military Readiness and pay close attention to the quoted part, and tell me what you think of that statement. Weldon is Chairman of that subcomitee and has been a long time fervent supporter of the Osprey.

Since introduction of the CH-46 in 1964, 166 have been destroyed in accidents with the loss of 345 Marines. Since the CH-53 came into service in 1967, 93 have crashed with the loss of 302 Marines. That is a battalion of United States Marines that we have lost in accidents in these aging helicopters.
http://armedservices.house.gov/pressreleases/2001/01-05-21weldon.html

RichLundeen
12-29-03, 09:53 PM
Turning to the read, Greybeard.....................

See you in a few.

Semper Fi

Rich

RichLundeen
12-29-03, 10:10 PM
Thanks!

Seeing as how that was dated '01, are you implying that the reoccuring inability of the program to meet it 'milestones' continues to be the case? I would agree, 110%!

I'll do a little 'surfing', and come on back.

Semper Fi

Rich

greybeard
12-29-03, 10:38 PM
Nope, that's not my point. The Weldon address was to a symposium by the Subcommitee on the Osprey.

"Since introduction of the CH-46 in 1964, 166 have been destroyed in accidents with the loss of 345 Marines.

Since it's initial deployment, there have indeed been 166 CH-46's lost, but not all by accidents. Accidents means pilot error, weather, mechanical/electrical failure etc.
That 166 is the TOTAL number of a/c lost, according to official DOD records. What happened between 1964 and 1975? Vietnam. The largest percentage of those 166 CH46's were shot down or lost to enemy fire-not accidents. The 46 and the 53D are the helos slated to be replaced by the Osprey. The good congressman was intentionally attempting to make the reliability of the CH-46 look much worse than it really was. Why?
Curt Weldon's PA home district is also the home of Boeing Vertol, where the fuselage of the Osprey is built. When I see someone post these glowing reports of an aircraft that could easily become the most expense R&D project in DOD Aircraft history, I cringe. It's just a PR blurb and doesn't tell half the story or the truth. Fair & balanced report? Not hardly. This bird has now missed the Gulf war, Afghanistan, Iraqi Freedom. Not only must you consider the costs of the Osprey, you must also consider the cost of keeping the 46 and 53D flying while they continuallly work out the bugs on the V-22. When they discovered failing stainless steel hyd lines not long ago, it was a blessing in disguise. While doing that rework, cracked rotor hubs on the props were also discovered and they had to be replaced on some of the ac. I don't have to tell you what a failed rtr hub results in. It's just one thing after another and they're no closer to actually going into the fleet than they were 5 yrs ago.

RichLundeen
12-29-03, 10:58 PM
I sure see your point. One lost military Member, is not worth the 'breaking eggs to make omelets' adage.

What to do though then?

Restart production (with superior drivetrain upgrades) to the 47 and the 53?

The airframe 'form factor' that the 'V' program represents a huge leap in technology.

This is a tough one for me. As an a former Plane Captain, skydiver and A&P, I look at this rig like a little kid; I simply love it!

With what you know, Greybeard, would you say at this point it is a program management issue? Or problems with support in regard to timeline? Or leading edge technology, with am R&D lead time, that cannot be accurately estimated?

Tough items, all, to be sure!

Semper Fi

Rich

RichLundeen
12-30-03, 12:02 AM
Here's my e-mail to Congressman Weldon;

"Dear Honorable Congressman Weldon,

I hope I'm directing this question to the right person.

I'm curious as to the status of of your sub-committee's readiness query of the V-22 program

As a former Marine Crew Chief / Plane Captain, I'm very interested in this situation.

Especially in regard to the current state of affairs with our aging helo fleet.

Thanks, best regards, and Happy Holidays.

Semper Fi

Rich Lundeen

Longmont, Colorado

USMC '84 - '91"

kentmitchell
12-30-03, 05:18 AM
Hey guys,
Lotta good info on govt. spending, boondoggles, etc., at this website: http://www.d-n-i.net/
If you need background, read "Boyd," by Robert Coram.