Parachute Wings

[Derek Blevins]

I know you guys must resent people who claim to be members of your Corps as much as we do. We call them 'Walters' after the Danny Kaye film Walter Mitty.

We currently have a British film stunt-man whose 'CV' states he was a Royal Marines Commando, among other things; SAS, SBS etc.

He has now admitted that he was only in the Reserve, and never served as a 'Regular'.

One of his many claims is that, "In 1991 I qualified for the USMC coveted Gold Parachute Wings."

We would appreciate any background information about the award of these Wings.

Regards, Derek

[Sixguns]

Master jump wings (gold) would have required about six weeks of training. Marines most often times earn this badge as a result of completing a U.S. Army parachutist course of instruction. More often than not, the course is held at Ft. Benning in Georgia.

Sixguns

[Kalbo]

Derek,

After jump school, a Marine will wear the "dreaded lead sleds" (silver wings). Once the Marine completes 10 jumps, he/she will become a Gold Winger after the Gold Wing cereromony. How easy or hard this cereromony is depends on the unit and the Gold Wingers doing the "pinning"

FYI, Marines without jump wings are called "Legs".

Hope this helps.

Kalbo

[Derek Blevins]

Sixguns and Kalbo

Thanks for that, it's all helping to build a picture of what it is he is claiming to have achieved!

Do you have any idea how common it is to have a 'non- American' serviceman complete this course, and what would be the point of them qualifying for Gold Parachute Wings. There must be a considerable cost involved.

How easy, (is there a long waiting list?) and how common is it, for US Marines to achieve Gold Wings? Is it based on the unit to which they are posted, having a Para role?

Many thanks, Derek

[Kalbo]

Derek,

We had a couple of 'non-American' servicemen in our class - I think it may be pretty common, but as far as them getting Gold Wings, I don't think so - I never heard of anyone other than Marines getting the Gold Wings.

Is it based on the unit to which they are posted, having a Para role?

Pretty much Yes - That is what makes it hard to achieve. There are alot of quotos given out for Jump School to administrative type, people in the service acdamies, etc. They all get the dreaded lead sleds - but proprably won't get the Gold Wings, because all their jumps will be at Jump School. No unit jumps.

Hope this helps.
Kalbo

[trimmerjr]

You must be in a jump unit to get gold wings i.e. Recon/Angilco/Air service support/seals ect..

[Derek Blevins]

Thanks for all your help, and the information you have provided has been added to that gathered elsewhere to counter his many other claims to fame!

You are now all honorary members of 'Royal Marines Walter Busters'. ;)

May we wish you and yours a Very Happy Christmas, and a Peaceful 2004.

Once a Marine, Always a Marine

Regards, Derek

[Sticky blue]

Hello Uncle Derek!
As an update to Derek's post:
It would appear that our Walter has been... errrmmm... how do I put this?
Very liberal with the truth!
He was a reservist and has possibly done some courses but as a reservist we can not prove, or disprove, any of his claims.
Sadly there is nothing our government can do, should that read will do? There is no law that can stop anyone making ridiculous claims... nothing!

Thanks for your time guys.

Lt General, His Royal Highness Sticky of Blue VC, MBE, MSM, Congressional Medal of whatever I want, Gold Para Wings, Brown Wings, VD, Scar and Bar:D If I forgot anything it is because I haven't awarded myself with it yet!!

[steve evans]

As another Bootneck I will say the same as Derek and Sticky have said.

This bloke has used every avenue to get where he is! To me he is not a MARINE but a waste of time!

ONCE A MARINE ALWAYS A MARINE! he is not by any means a MARINE.

He has played at doing the SBS and the SAS courses but was a partimer.

He has never fired a gun in anger or had a weapon fired at him!

I jumped out of aeroplanes (for money, Para pay) This person now jumps out of cars and gets set on fire! I will get me coat!

Kin cannot get me head round people who do it half heartedly.

STEVE EVANS

[oldanglico]

Derek, could not help getting in on this one. I served with 2nd Anglico '79 to '81. (On Exchage duties) Even though I was a parachute trained Royal Marine I had to complete 10 jumps to get my USMC "Gold"wings. Believe me when I say the ceremony was painful. Regards, Jimmy Millin PS Fantastic tour of duty!

[Derek Blevins]

Jimmy
Great to hear from you, and to see your background.

As you achieved your Gold wings as a Royal Marine, is it possible that someone from RMR London could have achieved the same thing in 1991?

How come the ceremony was 'painful'? There's got to be an interesting story here! ;)

There are a number of former 'Royals' on Tony Lang's excellent web site www.onceamarinealwaysamarine.co.uk. Come and join us. That extends to our USMC friends as well.

Best wishes, Derek

[firstsgtmike]

Derek,

Until you receive a more definitive answer, the pinning on of jump wings is just that, with the emphasis on "pinning".

[crew]

that's pinning to the flesh and bone, to make sure they stay on.

[leroy8541]

After completion of the infamous 10th jump you are/were, called out to the tree, all of the gold wingers in the battalion were waiting in line for you to arrive in a white T-shirt. it is a gauntlet type of initiation. The senior man would then present the new addition with his wings by pinning them thru the t-shirt and into your chest by any means he sees fit.

[leroy8541]

Pentagon brass 'disgusted' by Marine hazing ceremony
January 31, 1997
Web posted at: 9:30 p.m. EST
From Correspondent Jamie McIntyre

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Under fire for allowing a hazing ritual known as "blood-winging," Pentagon officials acknowledged Friday that the painful rite was not an isolated incident.

The Marine Corps has court-martialed or disciplined about 80 people since 1994 for hazing or more serious offenses, U.S. Defense Secretary William Cohen said Friday during a televised news conference.


But the graphic video of "blood-winging" -- first broadcast Thursday by CNN -- has clearly shaken U.S. military leaders.

In the video, taken in 1991 at a training camp for Marine paratroopers in Camp Lejeune, North Carolina, a group of men can be seen performing a forbidden ceremony in which they pin paratrooper jump wings directly into others' chests. Marines were shown writhing and crying out in pain as others pounded the spiked medals into their chests through tee-shirts

[leroy8541]

10 Marines to be disciplined for 'blood-winging' incident <br />
<br />
One may be discharged <br />
July 11, 1997 <br />
Web posted at: 4:33 p.m. EDT (2033 GMT) <br />
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. Marine Corps announced...

[leroy8541]

This is where the new, kinder, gentler, Marine Corps started. In my opinion its all bull because of a sissy who somehow got into a position where he did not belong.

[Derek Blevins]

Thanks Leroy
That explains a great deal.
I'm just relieved they didn't award us our Royal Marines Commando daggers that way, or none of us would have survived! :D

Derek

[leroy8541]

Actually the blood wings were a breeze compared to the "earning" of the SS brand after completing sniper school. The things we have done to appear tough in the eyes of our peers.

[oldanglico]

Hello again Derek. It was interesting to read the responses to my mention of "painful" ceremony. They pretty much said it all. In those days in 2nd Anglico a very large "gold winger" braced himself behind you and the jumpmaster of the day pinned on your wings with a hearty elbow thrust. Happy days! Would not have missed the tour for anything though. I believe the exchange is still going so it is possible for someone of '91 vintage being involved. Regards, Jimmy Millin

[Dan_Mills]

Derek Blevins, oldanglico and every one else who may may be interested, I was with 1st ANGLICO from 1964-66 at Camp Smith and K-Bay. The adwarding of your gold wings is an event that the recipient both hungers for and dreads. Every Recon and/or ANGLICO Marine strives for this honor and knows the temporary pain that goes with it. I have seen Gold Wings awarded several times to both enlisted and officers and in the old days the proceedure was exactly the same. Most Marines who have earned their wings never get the chance to earn the coveted Gold or "Senior" wings because once they have completed school and returned to their home unit they don't get the opportunity to make the unit jumps necessary to count towards your "10". I have heard alot of the stories over the years, such as "never went to a jump school, because I got mine in Nam" etc. Just laugh, because jump wings are just not earned this way. The person wearing them must go through a jump school and must make the required number of unit jumps. By the way during Nam there were jump schools at Scofield in Hawaii, Ft. Bragb and on Oki, but everyone went to school. "Death from above"

[cbqrr47]

What got me about the "scandal" was the high ranking officers' hypocracy, during this time. They decried them as "unprofessional", etc., like they didn't know all about them. Just a lot of BS, Most had been through them, themselves. Everybody knew about the various "rites of passage" and accepted them as part of being a Marine, but when the media got involved, they ran like a bunch of scared school girls!

[namgrunt]

According to Kalbo, I'm a "Legs" Marine. While on active duty, I was never in Force Recon, nor have I ever jumped in civilian life since I went "inactive". Regardless, I hate military fakes and wannabe's. I have a suggestion which might smoke out your parlor para-Marine stuntman if he is false.

I've heard that all jump-qualified Marines know how to pack chutes, as well as use them. If this is correct, then you can perform an empirical test on your subject. Invite the fellow to join a select group of you for a jump.

If he accepts your invitation, hand him an unfurled parachute. Explain that you all pack your own kits. You can tell him it is a ritual within your small group of close friends. If he suddenly changes his mind about jumping, then he is a fake. If he does pack the rig, you'll spot whether he knows what he is doing. Either way, you'll have your answer.

If none of what I've written makes sense, remember, it is a "Legs" Marine writing it. I knew about cargo nets, beach landings, and jumping out of helicopters, ...not parachutes.

namgrunt

[jakRoyalMarine]

Good Morning Gents,
As a Marine family, why do we not take this walter out for a jump, and see if he does know how to jump.

We all know he is full of ****,

A Part Timer who is so full of himself, because he works in the film Industry.

Gents, i do look forward to finind out more regarding this Walter, and inviting him out for a jump session.

yours
jake

[Derek Blevins]

An Update

Using the information you guys have provided I contacted our suspect 'Walter' and asked him what 'blood winging' was.

The fact is, he came back with information that makes it look as if he did indeed qualify for Gold Para Wings. He states that he was awarded his Wings in 1990, and the CO was a Lt Col Engstrom USMC. He was with members of 29 Commando Royal Artillery, 148 Bty, whose exchange trip was taking place at that time, and although the Lt Col only pretended to punch their wings on, the 20 USMC guys who followed punched them in properly! He also states they also jumped from an OV10 recce aircraft.

I'm prepared to give credit where credit is due, but we have also proved that many of his claims are false, or at least highly exaggerated.

Thanks again for all your help.

[dejavu]

I had to get in on this thread when I saw the word Anglico go by. I spent 3yrs 4 months and 22 days with 2nd Anglico in Camp Lejeune. I distinctly remember my wing pinning day. My wife watched and later decided not to even try to wash the blood out of the white t-shirt. We just threw it away.

Regarding the "scandal", I still feel proud of that day and wouldn't replace it for anything. All this about "watching out for the safety of our Marines" by not allowing wing pinning is BS and everybody who has been through it knows that.

Hello to all the Royal Marines who may have been in 2nd Anglico between March of 1970 and June of 1973. We may have run into each other. Also, thanks for your country's help with the present war.

[FistFu68]

:evilgrin: TWO POINT'S GENTLEMAN,WE DID MAKE JUMP'S OUT OF THE OV-10 BRONCO;SECOND UNLESS YOU WENT TOO THE FORMAL RIGGER SCHOOL.'BAC IN MY ERA,IT WAS AT FT.LEE,VIRGINIA.THEN YOU PACKED YOU'R OWN T-10!:evilgrin:

[MGySgtSki]

:evilgrin: TWO POINT'S GENTLEMAN,WE DID MAKE JUMP'S OUT OF THE OV-10 BRONCO;SECOND UNLESS YOU WENT TOO THE FORMAL RIGGER SCHOOL.'BAC IN MY ERA,IT WAS AT FT.LEE,VIRGINIA.THEN YOU PACKED YOU'R OWN T-10!:evilgrin:

FIST,

I'll second that about the OV-10. I got one of those jumps in before they took them out of the inventory. Great jump!! Just wish I had been the number one jumper instead of the second one.

Rigger school is still in Ft Lee and they are the only ones that pack any parachutes these days unless you're a freefall jumper, then you pack your own main.

S/F

[FistFu68]

:evilgrin: (LMAO)M/SGT.YOU MEAN YOU DIDN'T ENJOY ANYONE STEALING YOU'R AIR,OR RUNNING OFF SOMEONE ELSES CANOPY??? GOD~SPEED MARINE~S/F:usmc:

[MGySgtSki]

:evilgrin: (LMAO)M/SGT.YOU MEAN YOU DIDN'T ENJOY ANYONE STEALING YOU'R AIR,OR RUNNING OFF SOMEONE ELSES CANOPY??? GOD~SPEED MARINE~S/F:usmc:

LOL, I stay away from those Sky Sharks!! Just lamenting the fact that I didn't get to be the number one jumper from an OV-10, rolling down the runway with my legs dangling out the back......kinda like a Huey ride on steroids....LOL

S/F and keep your feet and knees together!!

[FistFu68]

:evilgrin:THAT'S A BIG~AFFIRMATITTY ON YOU'R LAST M/SGT.HAVING TOO USE YOU'R RESERVE WITH YOU'R LEG'S OPEN, COULD MAKE FOR A MAJOR MALFUNCTION;IN MORE THAN ONE WAY!(LOL)SINCE I WAS ONLY A'BOUT 5'10,I GOT SHOVED ALL THE WAY UP TO THE FRONT OF THAT OV-10;THE LAST JUMPER IN MY STIC!!!YOU ARE RIGHT A'BOUT THE RIDE,WE CALLED IT PUCKER-FACTOR;THE SUDDEN ANGLE CHANGE WAS A'LOT OF G'S.GOD~SPEED~MASTER/SGT.OF MARINES/10/4~OUT~S/F:usmc: :thumbup:

[FistFu68]

:evilgrin: OH ,I WANT TOO THANK OUR BROTHER'S;THE ROYAL MARINES.FOR THEIR BRAVERY FIGHTING,THIS WAR ON TERRORISM;UNITED WE STAND~DIVIDED WE FALL!!!"SAEPIUS-EXERTUS~SEMPER-FIDELIS~FRATER-INFINITAS" TO THE BRAVE-GOOD FORTUNE. GOD~SPEED~S/F:usmc: :beer:

[ANGLICO88-91]

Lt Col Engstrom pinned my wings too. Brits trained with ANGLICO every year. We always made sure they made at least 5 jumps with us so that we could pin them. I was there in 1990 when that brit claims to have been there so I probably pinned him myself. I don't remember any names of those guys because they were just there a couple of weeks. That video at Camp Lejeune was of a rigger pinning in our paraloft. Rigger pinnings were always much more severe than regular pinnings which were done in the open in front of our barracks, nothing secret about it.

[Kahiko]

I remember that video of the pinning ceremony, and how the media talking heads noted the Marines "screaming in pain" and so forth. No one bothered to ask a Marine if he thought perhaps they might have been shouting "OOH-RAH" instead. I was amazed back then, and still am, how quickly the HQMC brass jumped on the PC bandwagon with this. Disgusting. Remember, this was not long after Tailhook in the Clinton Maximum Spin, Mega Damage Control, Ulta-PC Era, when the Generals and Admirals were all running for cover.

Hey, ANGLICO88-91, looks like you got to French Creek about the time I left 10th Marines. When did ANGLICO, Force Reconnaissance, and Linen Survey Battalion leave there?