View Full Version : One of our own has been murdered....
PvtShmuckatelly
11-28-11, 04:54 PM
Hey 'gents, if you were not aware, back in May, The Pima county Sheriff's office swat team made entry into Jose Guerena's home on suspected alligations of drug trafficking. Here is where it gets shady, they ended up firing over 70 rounds into the home after claims of being fired upon. funny thing is, the Marine they killed was found with is safety on....
There is a lot more to this story and Ill include links.
After you read up on this story and cross reference with other news agencies you will see some serious problems with what went down.
Im going to come out and say this: A Marine, a father, and brother of our own was killed in cold blood by his own government. A government he, and we, have all sworn to protect at some point in our lives.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/25/jose-guerena-arizona-_n_867020.html
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/article_d7d979d4-f4fb-5603-af76-0bef206f8301.html
Do you know how to use the search function? Maybe Sgt.Lep will give you a lesson.
PvtShmuckatelly
11-28-11, 06:08 PM
Im a bit confused about your question DanM, did I post this in the wrong place? What search function do I need to use for this? In fact, what does your reply have to do with this post in any way shape or form? Next up, if I am in error I need to know what that error is. Asking me if I know how to use search function is more or less misleading and does not help. So, what exactly are you trying to tell me here?
By the way, it says you are a Marine under your screen name yet you are sportin Navy Rank. Whats that about?
EastofWest18
11-28-11, 06:10 PM
Take a look at the video of the raid from the perspective of someone right behind the raid team. I hear sirens, what appears to be shouts well before the door is broken in, and a raid shield. I think that this video de-bunks the claims that the police in question did not properly announce themselves (noting as you can semi-make out the announce). Sirens and a knock and announce is more than enough for me to put my rifle down before the door is kicked in...
Oh yeah, and a shotgun stolen in a drug connected robbery was found in his apartment too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP0f00_JMak
(note, the video is not from the raid, there is no video of him getting shot. It is close up video of someone looking at the front door from about 20 meters away)
He may have been innocent. But if you were a cop and after everything that you saw happen in that video, might you have shot at a man with an M-16 confronting you at the door? If he was innocent then this is a terrible incident. Lets keep this Marines family in our minds while we wait for all of the official investigations to end.
Marine1011
11-28-11, 06:11 PM
will the OP please divulge his identity
Zulu 36
11-28-11, 06:19 PM
This incident was well worked over here back when it happened.
PvtShmuckatelly
11-28-11, 08:51 PM
Ok so I tried like hell to post a sensible, respectful reply but this damned website is too clunky. keeps telling me im either signed out or included too many images in my post yet i have none? and no, i am not an idiot, i know computers just as well as the next guy. So:
I respectfully disagree with the proceedings and the info i linked and posted here was new as of this week.
I believe he was killed either on purpose or because thugs in uniform got excited.
If you seriously want to discuss this with me in a professional respectful manner I am all ears. Thankyou for your input fellas.
What you get if you preform a search on a six month old story....
https://www.leatherneck.com/forums/showthread.php?p=774585
http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103978
http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105547
Zulu 36
11-29-11, 06:24 AM
Ok so I tried like hell to post a sensible, respectful reply but this damned website is too clunky. keeps telling me im either signed out or included too many images in my post yet i have none? and no, i am not an idiot, i know computers just as well as the next guy. So:
I respectfully disagree with the proceedings and the info i linked and posted here was new as of this week.
I believe he was killed either on purpose or because thugs in uniform got excited.
If you seriously want to discuss this with me in a professional respectful manner I am all ears. Thankyou for your input fellas.
Don't get so upset. This incident was well worked over back when. The general consensus was not enough information was known to make a full judgement on the matter, however, many members felt the shooting was not justified.
Going with the information available, I felt the shooting was legally justified based on my education, training, and experience as a police supervisor, SWAT officer, and firearms instructor. I still do.
Was it a mistake? Quite possibly, but that does not necessarily make it an illegal shooting. Hindsight always being 20-20, it appears things could have been done differently on both sides. The SWAT team "could" have waited a little longer before forcing entry, but at what cost to evidence? The victim could have taken a defensive position in his bedroom and challenged the officers as they entered. If my auntie had balls, etc...
I did opine that I did not like early morning raids as that generally left sleepy occupants who might not react like they would fully awake (both in good and bad ways).
If the information regrading the victim was bad, that isn't the fault of the SWAT team. It would be on the Narc unit which developed the case and obtained the search warrant. They would have also provided 95% of the intel the SWAT team used to plan the raid, including all of the critical pieces, such as suspected weapons and potential for resistance.
I've done a ton of raids. Every one had a potential for things going out of control. My team was lucky that none really went beyond a quick repair not involving shooting.
We could "what if" the thing ad infinitum. The US Supreme Court, wisely in my view, prohibits use of 20-20 hindsight in legally judging these deadly force decisions by police.
thewookie
11-29-11, 07:21 AM
It sucks that a Marine Veteran was killed for what appears to be no good reason. Well, the SWAT teams reason for kicking the door was bad.
It sucks that the Pima County SWAT teams intel sucks.
It sucks that these "SWAT pro's" have no fire control. (Unfortunately this is all too common with police shootings in general.)
But, in my opinion the shooting was justified, or at least a "good shoot."
Back in my day when I taught CQB we taught a thing called violence of action. That Marine displayed violence of action when he pointed the gun at the SWAT team. Actually, him just having the gun in his hand is enough justification for deadly force in some takedowns.
I'm not saying I agree why they were there, that is to be decided or should be decided, and in my opinion they were wrong on that warrant.
And I DO NOT fault him for trying to protect his family.
But aside from that, when the SWAT team made entry and identified a weapon - they did what they are trained to do.
Doesn't matter if the gun was on safe or not, or that it was in the hands of an Honorable United States Marine Veteran.
That's my "quick" take on it.
RIP, Marine - thank you for your service.
sparkie
11-29-11, 09:41 AM
Sad that the wrong thing happens when both sides are trying to do the right thing.
I greatly respect the opinions of the last 2 posting Marines, and I will stand there.
Don't get too twisted up, PvtS, 'bout the goings on around here. This is a Marine site, and you know we can all be testy a-hols sometimes. Stick around and thicken your hide,,,,,and Welcome Aboard, Marine.