Writing a fictional book about a Marine. Need imput.

[Grey]

Hello,

I am in the process of writing a fictional book where my main character is a marine. I need help with some of the military dialouge and procedures. I realize that military orders and such are probably very dry and would not be fun to read about. But I want to try to get it right, I don't want one of you to read two pages of my book and throw it away in disgust. I want to protrey my characters in a positive and respectful light.

So I have several question actually so if anyone is willing to help me out then I would greatly appreciate it. I can post my individual questions in this topic or I can PM my questions to anyone or even email, however you prefer.

I really appreciate any help that you would be able to offer. I was never in the Military, I broke a 5 generation tradition going all the way back to the American Civil War. I tried to enlist when I was 18 but didn't pass my physical. They found a heart murmur that I didn't even know I had. But it kept me from enlisting.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

[Apache]

No profile (or very limited)
You will be fortunate to get any answers

[MOS4429]

I agree with Apache, but also, details always stand out to me, and I would think one would at least know how to spell the college that he is claiming he attended, and if you are writing a book, your spelling and punctuation cause concern, too.

Good luck.

[Grey]

I filled out my profile page as best I could.

I mean no disrespect but I honestly didn't consider that my profile would matter. But every question that I can answer is now answered.:thumbup:

[MOS4429]

I filled out my profile page as best I could.

I mean no disrespect but I honestly didn't consider that my profile would matter. But every question that I can answer is now answered.:thumbup:

This might help:

http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103170

[Grey]

un

[Grey]

Understood.

I honestly meant no disrespect by not filling out my profile and I hope that no one takes it that way. And as for my misspellings and punctuation.... That is all true but there is a big difference between typing a message and a question in a forum and writing a novel. When I am typing a question on a forum, I am trying to type it as simply and as quickly as I can. Sometimes mistakes happen. I can assure you that I take more care when I am working on my writing.

Again, i am sorry we got off on the wrong foot. I meant no disrespect. I did search for some of the questions I was going to ask...but I will admit that I didn't read every single pin up. My mistake and I will go back and read them all now.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

No worries. It happens.

Send me a PM.

[MOS4429]

Understood.

I honestly meant no disrespect by not filling out my profile and I hope that no one takes it that way. And as for my misspellings and punctuation.... That is all true but there is a big difference between typing a message and a question in a forum and writing a novel. When I am typing a question on a forum, I am trying to type it as simply and as quickly as I can. Sometimes mistakes happen. I can assure you that I take more care when I am working on my writing.

Again, i am sorry we got off on the wrong foot. I meant no disrespect. I did search for some of the questions I was going to ask...but I will admit that I didn't read every single pin up. My mistake and I will go back and read them all now.

No offense taken.

I have not been a member on this site that long, but the amount of trolls and posers is incredible.

So when I read a post or question for the first time now, I do so with a suspicious eye.

Go ahead a ask your questions or send via pm. Posting them might elicit more responses, however.

[Grey]

Thanks I appreciate it.

I Pm'd Sgt Leprechaun and asked him three questions.

Most of the problems I am having have to do with the dialogue between the officers and the men.

My main character is a young marine aged 20. He has just finished his specialty training and is being given his first assignment/tour.

Since he is so young, when he is just talking to some of the other marines I keep the dialogue lite. Basically marines are people too first and foremost so when he is not talking to an officer, he talks a lot like I do or did when I was just talking with friends. Its the marine to officer and vice versa that I am having problem with as it different of course.

I am also having problems deciding what ranks certain characters should be to make them realistic. I have my main character as a Lance Corporal but am not sure if that is too high, maybe he should be a Private 1st Class.

That is the jest of my problems and questions. I also think i want to have my main character be promoted to a full Corporal at some point during the story but I am not sure what it would take to get that promotion, what the process would be.

As a writer, you have to be careful what you put on the internet, not because of people copying it but because a lot of publishers count content put on the internet, even in a forum, as being self published and it can mess me up further down the road.

[MOS4429]

Thanks I appreciate it.

I Pm'd Sgt Leprechaun and asked him three questions.

Most of the problems I am having have to do with the dialogue between the officers and the men.

My main character is a young marine aged 20. He has just finished his specialty training and is being given his first assignment/tour.

Since he is so young, when he is just talking to some of the other marines I keep the dialogue lite. Basically marines are people too first and foremost so when he is not talking to an officer, he talks a lot like I do or did when I was just talking with friends. Its the marine to officer and vice versa that I am having problem with as it different of course.

I am also having problems deciding what ranks certain characters should be to make them realistic. I have my main character as a Lance Corporal but am not sure if that is too high, maybe he should be a Private 1st Class.

That is the jest of my problems and questions. I also think i want to have my main character be promoted to a full Corporal at some point during the story but I am not sure what it would take to get that promotion, what the process would be.

As a writer, you have to be careful what you put on the internet, not because of people copying it but because a lot of publishers count content put on the internet, even in a forum, as being self published and it can mess me up further down the road.

I'll take a short stab at it, but first, you do have somewhat of an uphill battle. When writing a book about a Marine or Marine Corps, you really need to know exactly what you are talking about or the reader will get a page or two into it and toss it.

W.E.B. Griffin is extremely detail oriented in his fictional novels and I am sure does a tremendous amount of research before and during the process of writing. For instance, you state basically Marines are people too first and foremost. Well, yes and no. First off, when a kid goes to boot camp, he is a civilian and becomes a maggot. He is then built up and made into a Marine. Once he is a Marine, while a human being, he is a Marine first and foremost. Some would argue with you whether Marines really are people, but I understand where you are coming from. In everyday life, enlisted Marine to enlisted Marine, when not on duty, it is not much different than two other 18 or 19 year olds shooting the breeze. While on duty, that's a different story, and it also depends on the situation and what MOS your Marine character has.

Should your character be a LCpl or a PFC or Private? That's up to you. I think it depends on how you want to develop this individual and where you are starting your story at. If the focal point of the book in on the individual, I would think it would be difficult to enter in at LCpl without background of how he got there, i.e., background, what he was like before joining, he going through boot camp. Give that some thought. When should he promote? This again goes back to you needing to understand how promotions work, time in grade vs. meritorious, and how some MOS's promote faster than others. You will need to do your homework.

If your book is not necessarily about the Marine Corps and it just has a character that is a Marine, then you could more easily get away with he being at a particular rank without as much background on him, though you did say he is your "main character."

How does a LCpl communicate with an officer? With respect. "Sir" and "ma'am" is how they are addressed. When answering, there is no "Yeah." It is "Yes, sir," and in some situations, "Sir, yes, sir." No fraternization, so you do not need to worry too much about how they will communicate say off duty because in reality they do not hang out off duty. However, they may meet at a unit function. We sometimes had BBQs, both officers and enlisted. We were dressed in civies and while communication a little less formal, it is still peppered with "sir" and "ma'am."

Maybe some others will share thoughts as well.

Good luck.

[Grey]

My story has a lot to do with the Marine off duty but also does have some scenes when in the service and involves communication with officers.

Thanks for the input. My followup question to what you typed above is:

You said that there is no fraternization with officers. At what rank does fraternization stop? Obviously a Corporal would still fraternize with a Private or a LCL. But would a Lance Corporal fraternize with a Gunnery Sergeant? Or would this only be applied to a commissioned officer like Majors, Colonels, ect? This works with what I have done, for the most part I have kept the officers and marines separate in my story. The man character really only has conversations with people of an equal or less rank than him.

The other point you made is something that I have been trying to research but have been able to find limited resources..and that is promotions. What does it take for a Private to become a Private 1st Class, a P1C a Lance Corporal, ect. I have been able to find NOTHING about the promotion process.

Again thanks for your input.

[Zulu 36]

My story has a lot to do with the Marine off duty but also does have some scenes when in the service and involves communication with officers.

Thanks for the input. My followup question to what you typed above is:

You said that there is no fraternization with officers. At what rank does fraternization stop? Obviously a Corporal would still fraternize with a Private or a LCL. But would a Lance Corporal fraternize with a Gunnery Sergeant? Or would this only be applied to a commissioned officer like Majors, Colonels, ect? This works with what I have done, for the most part I have kept the officers and marines separate in my story. The man character really only has conversations with people of an equal or less rank than him.

The other point you made is something that I have been trying to research but have been able to find limited resources..and that is promotions. What does it take for a Private to become a Private 1st Class, a P1C a Lance Corporal, ect. I have been able to find NOTHING about the promotion process.

Again thanks for your input.

One thing to emphasize, when off-duty if an enlisted Marine has cause to speak with an off-duty officer, whom the enlisted Marine KNOWS is an officer, full military curtesy is required (no salutes if in civvies). If he doesn't know the other person is an officer (and the officer doesn't bring it up) simple normal conversation is OK.

Here is a link to try if it hasn't been given to you yet: http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/generalinfo/a/military101.htm

You can search for specific things, but I suggest you go over the US Military 101 section first.

[iamspartacus]

You said that there is no fraternization with officers. At what rank does fraternization stop? Obviously a Corporal would still fraternize with a Private or a LCL. But would a Lance Corporal fraternize with a Gunnery Sergeant?

Technically, no. A Corporal should not fraternize with a Private or Lance Corporal. And I know what you're thinking. If two LCpls are friends and one gets promoted to Cpl, should they stop hanging out together? Technically, yes.

Here is the general breakdown of accepted social classes:

Junior Marines:
Private, Private First class, Lance Corporal

NCOs (non-commissioned officers):
Corporal, Sergeant

Staff NCOs:
Staff Sergeant, Gunnery Sergeant, Master Sergeant, Master Gunnery Sergeant, First Sergeant, Sergeant Major

Company Grade officers:
2nd Lieutenant, 1st Lieutenant, Captain

Field Grade officers:
Major, Lt Colonel, Colonel

General Grade officers:
Brigadier General, Major General, Lt General, General

You also have warrant officers, but I doubt you'll be touching on that.

So by the letter of the law, you shouldn't be hanging out in an informal setting with someone outside your social rank class. It's not like once you reach a certain rank, then it's okay to schmooze with anyone you want.

[iamspartacus]

As for promotions, Corporals and below get promoted when their cutting score (or composite score) reaches a certain number. That number is different for every rank, in every MOS. It's how the Marine Corps regulates a steady flow of Marines through all the ranks of a given MOS. That way, you won't have a bunch of junior Marines, zero NCOs and a bunch of Staff NCOs. If you want to know a realistic rank for your main character, you could give us some specifics about him. What is his job? How long has he been in?

[Grey]

Thanks for the information.

Here is what I can tell you about my main character. He is from a small town, joined to military to travel. He completed boot camp and was recommended by his drill instructor for special training (to eventually be placed in a special unit). He completes this special training which is where the story starts. He is at the Camp where the special training was given and he is gathering up his person effects to leave when the story starts. He had seen no combat yet but I was wondering if his special training might have earned him a higher rank?? But from what you say, its sounds like he wouldn't.

Basically in the story, he is placed in Recon. Now I know that usually a Marine is attached to a Recon unit like the 2nd Recon Battalion but this is a special case.

Here is where some of the fiction comes into play. The special training he received doesn't exist, well as far as I know. It is top secret, and so is this first assignment he has been given. He is not officially attached to any marine division. This way the government can deny involvement as they can show and say were every division of the Marine Corps were and what they were doing.

A small army is being assembled from men pulled from all the Divisions to form a secret division within the Corps that technically doesn't exist. The recruits who just finished this special training are selected to join this unit not only because of the training but also because they have never officially been assigned to a Marine unit.

Hopefully all that makes sense and gives you enough information to come up with a realistic rank for my Main Character and his sidekick so to speak who is also a Marine who received this special training.

But the main Character and the side kick are attached to Recon for this special assignment. It works really well for the story for them to be in Recon.

I know there is probably a lot wrong with the idea in terms of real life and top secret training and a top secret Division of Marines but so be it. I at least want the rest of the details to be right.

Would a marine in Recon have to go through any extra or special training?

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Ahhhh...you've already de-railed the train I'm afraid.

How do you want your book 'looked at' by Marines? As complete and total 'BS' or as something that 'might' have happened?

Because your beginning already has no basis in actual fact. DI's don't 'recommend' someone to 'be placed in special training'. Ever.

It takes, literally, YEARS to reach the point where you want your Marine to be.

It's not 'top secret' by any means....and you can find much of what you seek, 'training wise', right here on our site, by running a site search in 'Ask a Marine'.

Start with that, I'd suggest.

[Grey]

Ahhhh...you've already de-railed the train I'm afraid.

How do you want your book 'looked at' by Marines? As complete and total 'BS' or as something that 'might' have happened?

Because your beginning already has no basis in actual fact. DI's don't 'recommend' someone to 'be placed in special training'. Ever.

It takes, literally, YEARS to reach the point where you want your Marine to be.

It's not 'top secret' by any means....and you can find much of what you seek, 'training wise', right here on our site, by running a site search in 'Ask a Marine'.

Start with that, I'd suggest.

Well the good news is that my story starts just as my main character is finished his special training so it actually doesn't involve any of the training. So it is just a matter of changing a paragraph or so on the characters past.

But what I am saying is...this training my main character has received doesn't exist as far as civilians are aware. Perhaps some in the Corp know of it. Again, this is part of the fiction of my story. The training he is receiving doesn't exist in real life, but it does in this story. It would make more sense to you if I went into more detail but on the internet, I really don't want too. I would be happy to explain it in a PM to you if you want.

But basically, this is fiction. It is dealing with a conflict that has never happened, that I hope never happens. I want my main character to still be a little Green though. There is also a very logical reason in the story why things may be different than they are today as for as the Corp is concerned. But from what I have learned from the research I have done, the military in general has traditions that are held on too and which stand the test of time. I think procedure of how things are done would probably still be the same in my story. I will read the topic you recommended and I appreciate the information. I know I sound like I haven't researched anything but when you know nothing, it is hard to to figure out exactly what you need to research and what you don't. Basically, all I know about Military training comes from movies. Like I told you in my PM, my father was in the US Navy for years. But he hated it and he will not talk about it, at all.


And Zulu 36, thanks for the link. Great information.

[Zulu 36]

Well the good news is that my story starts just as my main character is finished his special training so it actually doesn't involve any of the training. So it is just a matter of changing a paragraph or so on the characters past.

But what I am saying is...this training my main character has received doesn't exist as far as civilians are aware. Perhaps some in the Corp know of it. Again, this is part of the fiction of my story. The training he is receiving doesn't exist in real life, but it does in this story. It would make more sense to you if I went into more detail but on the internet, I really don't want too. I would be happy to explain it in a PM to you if you want.

But basically, this is fiction. It is dealing with a conflict that has never happened, that I hope never happens. I want my main character to still be a little Green though. There is also a very logical reason in the story why things may be different than they are today as for as the Corp is concerned. But from what I have learned from the research I have done, the military in general has traditions that are held on too and which stand the test of time. I think procedure of how things are done would probably still be the same in my story. I will read the topic you recommended and I appreciate the information. I know I sound like I haven't researched anything but when you know nothing, it is hard to to figure out exactly what you need to research and what you don't. Basically, all I know about Military training comes from movies. Like I told you in my PM, my father was in the US Navy for years. But he hated it and he will not talk about it, at all.


And Zulu 36, thanks for the link. Great information.

I suggest you date it in the future. Like maybe in the 22d Century or even mid-to-late 21st where such things "might" be possible. After all, the Corps has changed quite a bit since 1911. What might it be like in 2111, or even 2050?

A future Marine Corps would provide the necessary separation from current reality. Your plot line will have more "credibility" by being in another time period.

The Marine Corps is small, even though 200,000 people doesn't sound small, but you would be surprised how well people and knowledge get around. A top secret unit wouldn't be so top secret for long and people would want in.

Or, you could go out in town on Okinawa and ask any mama-san. She'd know. :D

[Grey]

I suggest you date it in the future. Like maybe in the 22d Century or even mid-to-late 21st where such things "might" be possible. After all, the Corps has changed quite a bit since 1911. What might it be like in 2111, or even 2050?

A future Marine Corps would provide the necessary separation from current reality. Your plot line will have more "credibility" by being in another time period.

The Marine Corps is small, even though 200,000 people doesn't sound small, but you would be surprised how well people and knowledge get around. A top secret unit wouldn't be so top secret for long and people would want in.

Or, you could go out in town on Okinawa and ask any mama-san. She'd know. :D


My story just so happens to be in the future.;)

But I still think a lot of the procedures would be similar if not the same.

So I still want to make sure my details are correct. Somethings will be different but still want to get my details straight.

[YLDNDN6]

Here are some things you can consider for your character's rank. Let's say that he went to boot camp, did exceptionally well, and graduated as the platoon guide. That would make him a PFC (private first class). He would then have SOI (School of Infantry) to complete, and say he was a standout there,as well. At this point, you have a highly motivated Marine who has garnered some attention from his commands. While in SOI, the Marine is called in to speak with a "recruiter" for this special operations unit you are writing about. He is given just enough information about it to pique his interest, and he goes for it. PFC would be a likely rank at this point in the story, but, if he is moving on to "special" training whereby he will no longer be attached to any Marine unit, the question of rank leaves the picture. If you are operating "under the radar" as you intimated, then the dynamics call for work more as a team of equals and less as a team with rank structure that is enforced. This early in his Marine career, it is highly unlikely that he would have been selected for Recon training, so it would be best to have him "hand picked" for this "special training." At this rank and this point of his training, you would have a very capable Marine who has shown himself to be motivated and hard charging. Maybe he gets a meritorious promotion to LCPL for displaying leadership traits above and beyond while at SOI. This, I think, would be the place to start the real fiction. (By that I mean the idea that there is some sort of top secret outfit that trains, equips and organizes for the purpose of conducting covert operations on a global scale.)
Good luck with this story and I look forward to seeing it on the shelves!

[Grey]

Thanks, very informative post. I have actually been working on a timeline leading up to the start of my story. What you had below certainly gives me something to go by.

If the ranks didn't really matter in his unofficial unit then I suppose that any of the solders could do the scouting and recon type work even if they had not actually trained as recon?

[Apache]

Please refer to earlier post
It takes years of training and experience to develop into a Special Operator (Recon)

So the idea of a young Soldier (Marine) being in this slot dosent work well

This group is an independent small unit reporting to the Commander that needs survival
Skills combat skills and a self reliant attitude.

[Grey]

Apache,

What do you consider a young Marine? My main character doesn't have to be 18, he can be upwards of 25 and still work as a character. He just doesn't need to be in his 30's because of some of the dialogue exchanged between him and another character. It would sound wrong coming a Marine in his 30's.

I have been going through, trying to make a time line of my main characters' early career. It is not important to the reader to know every detail of his career but just to make sure everything worked and fit together. From what I have seen from various sources I have looked at Boot Camp plus Infantry school 'rifle training" is a total of 143 days. I have read that a Marines' Tour is not as long as an Army Tour of Duty around six months or less if my sources are correct. and the Basic Recon training lasts for 65 days. So what would be a good age for a person who was in Recon? I read an article on a four man fire team in Recon and the highest rank in the fire team was a Corporal, the rest were P 1st Class and 2 LCPL.

I may get away from the recon if I just can't make it work but my main character doesn't have to be 18 or 19, he can have a little peach fuzz on his lip.;)